Hey guys,

I am reading Leslie Lafayette's "Why Don't You Have Kids," and she said the childfree end up with a million dollars from the money they save on not having children. She likened it to winning the lottery.

This is very exciting to me. I know I've read this elsewhere, too. But just think what wonderful things we can do with all of that disposable cash.

No wonder the childed are often jealous of us!

That is awesome to think about!

I'm sort of new on the CF circuit, since up until a few months ago we were trying to conceive. But we had misgivings, and now are no longer trying. We're not completely 100% decided, but the more I live with this decision the more I feel like it's right.

The last couple months have been a huge relief to not have to struggle so hard to earn enough money to do all the projects we're already doing, pay for fertility clinic procedures, and try and think about saving money somehow for me to take some time off work to spend with the baby (I'm freelance, so no maternity leave), plus for all the expenses of having the baby and needing supplies. It was getting overwhelming and it felt insurmountable.

It would be nice to just be rich and not have to make life decisions based on money, but that's not our situation at this point in time. I have a hard time voluntarily choosing poverty, if that's what I'd be doing.

Since we've given up, we have so much more time for enjoying every day. It's made a huge difference in our quality of life NOW. If people are supposed to "live in the now", this is definitely helping that happen. We have much more hope that we can keep our heads above water financially, and it's been really fun to plan things we want to do instead of spending all our money (and more) on a baby in the future. We're still pretty strapped from that whole ordeal, but at some point it seems more likely we'll have enough extra money to travel and do fun things.

We like to dream about buying a sailboat, and now we're toying with the idea of a teardrop trailer to take on roadtrips.

Why wait to retire (or till we're dead) to live our dreams?

Or until the nest is empty.

I know practically everyone does it, but having a baby must truly break the bank. I'm still paying off my college loan.

I wonder how many Moms are still paying theirs off, and aren't even using their education anymore?

I know I mentioned this book before, "Get to Work: Get a Life, Before it's Too Late." The author talks about the potential of scholarships for women being dropped if hoards of women keep retreating to the home after college. It makes sense, if you think about it. Why invest in someone that will be out of the work force in a few years?

Anyway, I'm probably getting off topic. But this is a pet peeve of mine.

My friend (also childfree) was talking to me about her vet bills this morning. She has three horses, two dogs and a cat. She recently acquired a several thousand dollar vet bill trying to save her sick dog, which ultimately, sadly, died. She's stressed out trying to figure out how to pay her bills. She said "At least I don't have kids...I don't know what I'd do then!" Of course, if she had kids, trying to save the dog probably wouldn't have been an option. Her animals are her kids. Unfortunately, it's expensive to get health insurance for animals. She now has a puppy and she's stressing out over the money it's going to cost to have him neutered, close to $300 including anesthesia and bloodwork. I had no idea neutering was that expensive! Lucky for me, my animals have come from rescue, already spayed and neutered.

Cindy

Cindy

I didn't know they have health insurance for animals! I bet she is still saving tons of money, despite pet costs.

Yeah, I think you are right, your friend wouldn't be able to spend that kind of money on her pets if she had human kids.

It's hard to let an animal go.

I know this older CF woman from my last job, and she practically had the doctor perform open heart surgery on her cat! She's a bit of a nut, though.

It must cost more to neuter than to spay. It only cost about $160 for us to have our dog spayed. Of course she was about 8 months old too. That could make a difference.

From what I can tell, the prices for spay/neuter vary greatly. I would think a spay cost more because it's more of an internal surgery. Neutering is more "external". Spaying is basically a hysterectomy. I called my vet to compare his prices with my friend's vet, and my vet was about $100 less. And then there are the low-cost spay/neuter options...but then you're trusting your animal's life to a complete stranger. But it's a good option for people who couldn't afford it otherwise. I'm a big proponent of spay/neuter, can you tell?

It was very hard for my friend to let her dog go, she couldn't do it without trying everything. It ended up the dog had liver disease that couldn't be healed.

Cindy

Yeah, we did a lot when our family dog was dying. His hind legs were giving out, and we kept trying different medicines, which would only help for like a week or so. We were just prolonging the inevitable.

We finally decided we weren't being fair to keep him around for us when he was clearly in pain. But every pet owner has to figure out when they are at that point.

It's a shame we can't (legally) help our relatives that are in chronic pain along to the next phase. My Grandmom has been mentally gone for over ten years. But who is to say she isn't somehow enjoying this time? We just don't know. Up until recently, she hasn't been in pain.

HEY! Where do I get this million dollars???? **looks up into heavens**

I know that we will save money if we choose to be CF forever. Our 6 "kids" (the cats) do cost us money, as far as quality food, litter, vet care, etc., but the costs would be a million times more if we had a human kid to raise as well. Last year, we fought like hell to save our big orange tabby who suddenly went into kidney failure - we spent over $1000 at the emergency vet that weekend, only to eventually decide to let him go, for his own good, since he was in so much pain at that point. It was one of the saddest things we've ever gone through - he was the best cat and everyone loved him. He was just here to be loved. Anyway, after he died, it took us a long while to stop tearing up when thinking about him, but we eventually adopted 3 young kitties to add to the 3 we already had....it's been a wonderfully happy household, but we still miss dear Leo. Off-topic, but I do realize how much more $$ we have to spend on the things we want to spend it on without having to support a kid. Some may call it selfish, but I think it's smart.

Speaking of high vet bills.... I spent the morning with the veterinary opthamologist for my 8 yr old bunny with glaucoma. The bill for this AM alone was $400 (including an ultrasound of the eye). His eye drops are going to be another $100. But otherwise he's healthy and happy (except when I give him the drops!). I can't imagine having to make a decision on his treatment if money was an issue.

What gets me are those parents who tell me I'm nuts for the money I spend on my bunnies (or my mouse, who had his tail amputated last week), but then turn around and break the bank to buy ipods, cell phones, computers, video games, etc. for little Jimmy.

Happy birthday LSUTiger!

I think I've mentioned this before, but my cat was an off-the-street rescue, in other words, a stray. If I had a child to pay for and worry about, I couldn't have brought that cat into my home. She was only about 6 months old at the time and no one before me had taught her to sheath her claws when interacting with humans. (She'd had almost no training/socialization.) I also couldn't have paid for her medical care (including having her spayed).

She would have gone to the shelter. Instead, she's snoozing on a sunny spot on the living room floor, happy, healthy, and enjoying the peace and quiet of our home. The point is that my child-free status effectively saved her life. Riches would be nice, but I can settle for that.

"I wonder how many Moms are still paying theirs off, and aren't even using their education anymore?

I know I mentioned this book before, "Get to Work: Get a Life, Before it's Too Late." The author talks about the potential of scholarships for women being dropped if hoards of women keep retreating to the home after college. It makes sense, if you think about it. Why invest in someone that will be out of the work force in a few years?"

This is an excellent point - I think the way society is structured can make a difference. I live in Canada where new moms who have worked enough hours will get a year of money from the government (employment insurance - everyone pays a certain amount of their paycheque to it, and you can collect if unemployed and meet the right conditions), based on how much $$ they made, up to a certain cut-off. I do believe this is a good thing, since there are many health benefits to having mom able to choose to stay home for a year. But the really good thing is that the mom can then re-enter the work force after a year, when a baby is more independent and there won't be as much guilt about leaving him/her. So, we don't lose nearly as many women, but keep them as productive members of the workforce. I think in the US, where maternity leave is 6-8 weeks, a family is more likely to decide to have a parent (usually mother) stay home. I lived in Denmark for half a year and it's even more dramatic there - almost all moms return to the work force, and there is enough affordable daycare for everyone (Canada does not have that yet, at least in Ontario). A few moms do choose to stay home, but they are in the minority. I'm not sure if the maternity leave there is 1 year or 2.

In Canada it's also possible to have employment insurance (government money) if you are in a situation where you need to care for your spouse, elderly parents, etc. so it isn't only child-focused. I don't know as much about the conditions you have to meet for that but I know it's available.

It is a cost to society, as everyone (even those who plan to be CF) pay into the employment insurance - and it's available if you become unemployed and meet the criteria. However I do think it makes for a healthier society overall ... less costs down the line, such as losing skilled women workers.

Andie


Anyway, I'm probably getting off topic. But this is a pet peeve of mine. [/quote]

Frieda!

Love those teardrop trailers! I've had my eye on one myself for YEARS! Would love to.

Glad you're doing well with your almost-CF status...

Elise

I understand. I've needed emergency vet twice that did save my sugar glider's life. People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them that. What else could I do? I'm not going to let one of my pets die!

My in-laws always make fun of me for taking my dog to the vet for every little thing. Their dog got really sick about a month and a half ago, and they called the vet, but never took him in. He was like a member of the family, too. He wasn't eating, he couldn't get off the floor, they were carrying him outside ... and they NEVER went to the vet!

He died last week suffering those same symptoms. Yes, he was 12, but he had been FINE with no problems except one tooth until 6 weeks ago.

Next time they make fun of me I have half a mind to say, "well, my dog's still alive, isn't he?" But I'm too nice.

Bring on the yacht, baby! WOOH HOOH!

Frieda, I'm glad that you are starting to feel more at peace with your decisions, and that your quality of life has improved. I totally agree that it is better to live for the now. Yes, you still need to plan on saving and taking care of yourself in retirement, but since no one knows whether they will make it that far, or how their health will be, I say make sure that you have some fun now too - while you are young enough and healthy enough to do it.

Thanks jmb and Bonsai!

Yes, you're right, I need save for retirement. I tend get a little ahead of myself (the husband freaked out at me last night for getting too into this teardrop trailer idea and wasting time on Craigslist thinking about spending $5K we don't have. Shopping addiction gone awry.) Oh well..I can dream!

Perhaps my retirement will be getting that yacht and setting off into the ocean never to be seen again. But, I don't really want drown, so maybe not. Maybe I'll set off into the sunset in the tear drop trailer then.

I do think it's important to remember that some CF live on one income and/or struggle to make ends meet. That said, I have never recovered from the shock of seeing the estimated price tag for one home-grown American kid (especially as compared with kids growing up in developing nations). Although I do see some of that cost as keeping up with the Joneses: the SUVs, the sports/dance/music/riding lessons, etc. Not that enrichment is a bad thing, it just seems like a lot of kids are overscheduled so young, and that has to get pricey.