BellaOnline Forums Home and Garden Exotic Pets Re: PETA kills pets ... now read this!

There wasn't a link to comment on the article, so I'm opening this topic here. Fair warning: this is going to be intense! And no, I'm not from PETA. The CCF is actually a lobbying association of factory farm companies, fur farmers, fish farmers, dairy associations, hunters and others that make a living off the suffering of animals, like companies that raise animals for experimentation. Don't buy into the "we just want to keep the food police off our backs". It's a cheap, inflammatory phrase. Who in this country keeps anyone from eating whatever, whenever they want it? When was the last time you couldn't buy a certain food? In fact, CCF wants to weaken laws that govern the raising and treatment of animals, and they want to primarily keep the government off their back whenever they foist some dirty junk down the consumers throat. Some well connected political lobbyists and fundraisers work for this organization, and concern for consumer's choices is truly their last interest. Money, and lots of it is their interest. So PETA kills animals? Really? Do you know who kills 100% of the animals in their possession? Beef producers, fur farmers, chicken producers. Egg producers kill the laying hens after 2 years of having the animals crammed in tiny cages, sitting on the rotting remains of dead chickens. 2 year old hens are considered "spent", even though they have years of life (and laying!) ahead of them. Oh, and the male chicks the egg industry can't use? They are either killed and sold as food for reptiles and other carnivores or they are ground up alive for pet food and fertilizer. Consumer choices, indeed! How's that for the incredible, edible egg? Broiler producers raise chicks by the tens of thousands per building for about 5- 6 weeks. They are fed doses of antibiotics to gain weight quickly, then are crammed into tiny cages for the first and last trip of their lives - to the slaughter house. Did you know that chicken producers often abandon entire buildings filled with animals? When a producer goes belly up, they don't save the animals. They are left to die, thousands of them. Sometimes they are bulldozered alive into pits. Is that the kind of organization you want to "protect" your choices? How about the dairy industry, how does it treat it's animals? Cows only give milk when they have a calf, so they are bred continuously, but don't get to keep their babies. The females are raised to be dairy cows, the males are sold cheap for meat or raised as veal in tiny confinement cages to keep their meat pale and tender. The dairy cows are milked even when their udders are bursting with infection - mastitis is a common affliction. Where does the disease go? Why, into the milk, of course! Research the dairy industry and see the lawsuits over the cruel treatment of the animals! Do you really need to hear about fur farms? Or labs raise animals for experimentation? The argument that PETA is a danger to the all-American food habits is nonsense. This country is positively exploding with overweight and unhealthy adults and children, so where is the influence of PETA? Isn't it rather the influence of the FOOD PRODUCERS we should fear? The people who bring us constant food recalls because of E. coli? Salmonella and other contaminations? And who gives a damn what actors and super models do? Subway still has that olympic swimmer shilling for them, the one who was taped smoking a bong. I can't recall his name now, but he's all over the TV. Do I lead my life by what a so-called star does? Do you? No, I think for myself and don't cite facts by suspect sources. That's doing their dirty work for free. Here's an unpalatable truth: animals are treated cruelly almost everywhere. Organizations dedicated to helping them are hampered by the lack of funds, human support and laws. To be called an animal activist is to be ranked just a step above terrorist. Why, the very idea of protecting animals, particularily those used for food worries the hell out of people who have something to lose. And that something is money. Food producers don't care about the animals, they care about gains and losses. And PETA often shines a light on the unsavory things they do. Remember the footage of downer cattle being pushed and dragged to slaughter? CCF supports that, and PETA and others exposed it. Lastly, consider this: animal shelters kill the vast majority of the animals they take in. In particular county and city-run shelters don't have the facilities or the money to shelter more than a small number of animals. Plus they have to take in every animal that comes along: the sick, the old, the infants, the aggressive, the skinny mama dog with 18 puppies. They have no chance of being adopted, so down they are put. If lucky, by a qualified vet with a syringe, but sometimes with a bullet or even a stick to the head. Yes, really! And what about no-kill shelters? Yes, they do exist, but they are rare, for the above mentioned reasons. Often the no-kill facility cherry picks the most likely to be adopted animals. NO shelter can afford to take all animals - I know, I've run one. All the people who want to experience the miracle of life need to also experience the miracle of death - when perfectly great animals are put to death simply because no one cares to care for them. This is a lenghty post, and I apologize for being emotional. But I do care about animals, I've seen a lot of them suffer, and I have helped many. I don't care for misleading statements made by organizations with hidden agendas. Do some research and see where the info comes from. Who's behind it, and who benefits? And lastly, care for animals. Support the charity of your choice. If you see cruelty, speak out. If you know a good shelter, public or private, support it. They're rare enough as it is and need all the help they can get.

Ishtar, (same as my friend on Facebook?)

I think the key to your statement wraps up "Support the charity of your choice. If you see cruelty, speak out. If you know a good shelter, public or private, support it. They're rare enough as it is and need all the help they can get".

Nothing can convince me to support PETA. They, and I will admit have done some good over the years. After seeing their tax returns they have turned into an immense money making machine, don't support local shelters, support organizations and people that are nothing short of evil... I really hate that word.

I don't like to see an animal suffer in any form. CCF - pretty much all organizations have their own political agenda. That is why I picked out your statement quoted above. That is the key. I only support local charities of any sort anymore. I do support many shelters across my country. The HSUS is a big political money making machine now too with no support (minuscule support)to local shelters. I am tired of huge organizations, financial institutions, oil companies, and politicians be it a republican or democrat. I am an equal opportunity non believer now.

When people get off their lazy duffs and realize that we can ban together to fire all the government employees (they are nothing more than public servants and need to be treated as such), people we pay, keep firing them until they get it right. Get big business out of the picture. Health insurance companies, oil companies don't belong on the political scene. People are either too stupid or too lazy to do a thing about our bought and paid for government. I am not referring to any one administration be it Bush, Obama...whatever. The only thing these public servants are interested in is power and money. Maybe some started out believing they could make a difference until they get their first back scratch.

Animals will be hurt until we clean house, government, non profits ect. Something to think about, plants react to pain stimuli too. All living things have the same life force that you and I have.
Diana

In defense of PETA and HSUS - they need big funds to make a big stink and effect changes in law and government. Without groups that bring cruel and morally reprensible acts to the surface most people would quietly go about their day with no knowledge that such brutality exists - which of course would allow these henious acts to continue unthwarted. Maybe they go overboard but it is those extreme measures that make only moderate changes. Even I, who have been an animal activist for decades, never heard of crush videos before I was alerted that the supreme court protected them under freedom of speech - say what???? - outrageously cruel and sociopathic behavior performed and filmed for people's sick erotic gratification is called free speech - again - say what???? If it wasn't for the HSUS these disgusting films could continue to be produced with impunity and even though we now know about them the law is still not in place due to the supreme court's ruling. HSUS is working with the sponsor of the bill to help ensure its passing the next time it is put before the court.

I am very appreciative of these and many other groups that do such good work. If they hit too close too home at times that's the time I re-evaluate my priorities - not blame them for disagreeing with me.

We all need to do what we can to make the world a better place for all the species on the planet - sometimes that means that our lives become inconvenient - a small price to pay to ensure the end of suffering wherever and whenever evidence of such surfaces.

What happens when these groups drive the meat and egg producers to Mexico where there will be no controls at all?? At least laws are changing here, thanks to people with a head on their shoulders like Temple Grandin. This story comes out tomorrow but what the hay Alpha Male is a Fairytale Go to the book Animals Make Us Human and read her interview at Amazon, in addition, her book Animals in Translation. She is helping redesign slaughter house systems, the way food animals are housed. I certainly don't condone how animals are treated for food, meat, nor eggs. But at least some people are succeeding in changing the deplorable conditions. People eat meat, most people eat meat. People continue to breed with billions of mouths to feed. We obviously can�t go back to the family farm where we nurtured the animals until slaughter (at least some people did). The conditions are unforgivable.

PETA started out on the right foot, but tripped when foot went in mouth. If they kill the animals in their own shelters what makes them any better than anyone else?

Look at the tax returns from both organizations - maybe then people would understand where I am coming from.

They still do more good than harm - big bucks spread the word. Just because we want cheap meat available at all hours of the day and night does not justify any sort of cruelty - intentioned or not - and should not be allowed to continue. Death in and of itself is part of life - living a life of torture in unnatural conditions is far worse than being dead - no matter the reason. People need to know that brutal acts are committed every day - whether it be to feed us, to compete in the horse world, to open up space for cattle grazing, to satisfy some perverse needs or to amuse ourselves with dancing bears - it all comes down to the same thing - humans have declared themselves as the supreme being - we are not good enough for that role and the organizations that work to better the world for the animals are doing good work - not perfect maybe but substantially good work.

Temple Grandin is doing good work but the bottom line is that the only people that read her books are those that already care about the animals - those that are out there in the trenches, in factory farms, slaughter houses, puppy mills, fur farms etc - care nothing about anything but their pay checks - these are the sorts that PETA and HSUS expose - without them the world would go along its merry and ignorant way without ever changing a thing.

Diana, I agree with Susan. Big organizations like PETA and the HSUS are needed to wake up the conscience of the people who are not interested in animal welfare issues. Nobody drives meat producers to Mexico or other places, they go there because costs are much cheaper. Yes, there's little oversight but that's the icing on the cake, not the main motive. The point I was making earlier is that CCF is spreading LIES for self-serving reasons. If you don't want to support PETA, don't. But don't believe that PETA kills thousands of animals just because some shady organization puts some stats online and posts inflammatory statements. Consider the reasons why CCF doesn't want you to support PETA. Sheltering animals is difficult and very, very expensive. Why anyone would surrender an animal to PETA is a mystery to me, I consider them an activist group. So many people don't care about "their" animals breeding out of control, and so many are silly enough to pay hundreds of $$ for a puppymill dog, just because the breeder waves a AKC certificate. Shelters are overflowing with perfectly good pets, but idiots want the latest fashion animal, just like their favorite star totes around. People like that don't educate themselves on animal issues, they come across them by accident - on the news, online, etc etc. Fault always lies with people, not animals. The organizations that uncover the unpalatable truth should not be ostracised because they must make unfortunate choices. What, precisely, would you have PETA and HSUS do? Temple Grandin did good work in improving slaughter houses, but still, the animals die. Some say that she's accommodating the livestock industry. The argument that getting the animals to slaughter is now more humane seems a bit thin to me. Plus, I haven't heard of any improvement Grandin has made to the chicken industry. Surely that would be a challenge for her. No, I'm not on facebook, just here.

All well said Ishtar. I know how easy it is to become cynical in the world so understand how Diana and others find it easy to to point fingers at those that are out there spreading the word and perhaps stepping on toes along the way. And you are right, PETA is an activist organization - I don't always agree with their tactics, often too extreme, but they along with many other organizations are out there making a big stink right where it needs to be and if something smells bad people usually try to find out why.

I worked with PETA and the HSUS as well as supported both organizations. They started out with good intentions. I will repeat again�yes they did a lot of good. Many politicians start out with good intentions and end up bad apples. I cannot support a group that supports violence. PETA was the mainstream of animal-rights�they took a wrong turn. The word animal rights is becoming a dirty word, I prefer animal welfare.

I certainly don�t find it �easy� to point a finger, I have given it some careful, hard, and long thought. I have done considerable research both in and out of PETA.

The argument of �no kill� I don�t have an orphanage but I surely wouldn�t kill an infant if left at my doorstep. So killing for one reason is OK but killing or another isn�t? It would be horribly expensive to raise that infant. I am comparing humans to animals, darn right, Ingrid puts animals above people.


I believe in �thou shalt not kill� one of the Ten Commandments�but it has to go down the entire board. If a murderer kills someone and is given the death penalty as far as I am concerned the jury, judge, executioner �everyone that ends up killing the person that was sentenced to death is just as guilty of killing.

It would be a perfect world if all humans were vegetarians. I completely agree that slaughter house practices are deplorable. I worked in a chicken ranch (for a very short time) when I was putting myself through the university. I thankfully worked in the egg department and had nothing to do with the animals. The animals were crammed into tiny pens. It was horrendous. Conditions are improving but not enough�I don�t know if there ever could be an �enough.� What is the solution? You tell me.

There is still that nasty little fact that plant life reacts to pain stimuli, since we honestly know so little, what else is plant life capable of?

Susan, I know you love your horses, are you willing to give them up? "The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats... If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind." -Ingrid Newkirk

Susan, I consider you a friend and someone very much like me that would give their life to save another. I believe we would do most anything to keep an animal from suffering. I frankly am not sure what the argument is�I simply can�t support PETA any longer. If an apple rots or is rotting, it is turning bad�and that has happened to PETA.

Animals and people have been close companions since ancient times�we need each other.

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." -Ingrid Newkirk

Exotic Pets BellaOnline

Your quote basically says it all to me - we have created animals that can no longer fend for themselves. Pets rely on us for everything. Humans did this to them when we knew no better but now we do know better and in part due to organizations like PETA and the HSUS. As I said - if it were not for such organizations the world of animal enslavement and abuse would have gone on without anyone noticing that such things occurred or that they were wrong.

You have every right to support or not support whatever organizations you choose but if not for the big groups with the big bucks we would all be wallowing in our own ingnorance. The smaller groups do just as much good but they do not have the clout with which to inform the masses.

We have to become more responsible with regard to our role in the entire planet's ebb and flow - we have to stop taking and start giving back - we have to do this in the now - with the situation we have created and try to correct as much as we can. Righting wrongs is harder than not making wrongs in the first place.

You asked would I give up my horses - not a chance - but I have had the chance to breed my mares and have not done so - instead took on more rescues and that is how things will change - fix the mess we have made by not adding to it as a first step.

You are right - we both sacrifice for our animals - that is all we, as one person, can do. That's not enough - the big organizations do the best they can to help right wrongs by the masses of people that are not willing to make such sacrifices.

I also donate and participate in the Jane Goodall foundation, Care2, Humane Farm Animal Association, ASPCA, Oceana, NAVS, AAVS to name just a few of the amazing organizations out there trying to do good work. I am sure you are aware of some or all of them - plus others and local groups that are working toward a more humane planet.

If you have others that you know of I would like to know about them too.