BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids California octuplets

mhmmm, its all starting to come together for me now. I guess celebrity worship draws no lines.... oh well, I guess whats done is done. As for the doctor, my feeling is that he has gotten alot of publicity from this, and I am sure many people(that have been trying for so long, and really really want children, and have battled with the thought of being childess) will be streaming to his surgery so he's obviously used this for his career... it will be interesting to see how they all turn out.

Does it show anywhere how she was able to afford all of these surgical extemeties? If it's at the expense of her parents, I can't think of how, unless you are an extremist or as imbalanced as she is, she will have anything impressionable to offer.

For at least 9 months, there really isn't that much to deal with other than being exhausted. If she couldn't produce effectively for her first kids, what makes the public think 8 more is going to make her any more ingenious?

It reaks of exploitation all the way around.

_______________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor

Yes and where did she get this money for plastic surgery. She should have used it for children and been more concerned for their welfare not hers. I just hope she gets the help she needs.

All these poor inocent children are the ones that are or will be suffering the most. It's a very sad situation.

Celebrities need to have a bit of dicipline themselves. They make a lot of money and seem to think they can have and demand anything they want. Jolie is a nut case herself. She should have her own children and use the money to donate to help less fortunate. Adopting one or two does nothing for the cause. I don't think her batteries are fully charged either.

I definitely won't knock Angelina for her charitable contributions to third-world children -- that's a good thing. But she tries to make people think that her having (and taking in) so many children meaning that she is a "fully-realized" human being [violins...] compared to others.

In another place someone compared this woman to the Duggar's and I about lost it. Her situation couldn't be further.

It is one thing for a single woman who finds herself pregnant to bring that child into the world and do her best as a single mother to raise her child without a father and in a limited situation.

It is totally otherwise for a woman to KNOWINGLY bring children into that situation! She is NOT a mother. Mother's act unselfishly and her actions were NOT unselfish.

My biggest fear is that this way-out-there-extreme case will be used to enact some very scary and limiting legislation. Forces sterilization? Limiting family size? Give me break! America's population is officially DECLINING now as of last count and no longer meets the 2.4 needed for population SUSTINANCE - never mind population growth.

Want to know why we've experienced such growth since the depression era? Two words - Baby Boomers. Want to try to guess what will happen should the popluation decline just as this age group is reaching retirement years? Even greater stress placed on individual tax payers. Just look at Japan's economic decline to see our future should those willing to have children be persecuted - disaster results. Pelosi's reasoning is EXTREMELY short-sighted when you really sit down and look at it.

The largest disposible income is amongst the teenage crowd. If we halve the number of children born in the next five years what will happen in 14-18 years when those big spenders are no longer here. The biggest pure dollar-amount spenders are parents with children ages 2-8 years of age (in terms of raw dollars spent into the economy). So again - decreasing the birth rate - whether forced or by choice - will only further weaken the ecomony within a very, VERY short term. Want to talk about health care? The single department in most hospitals responsible for 60% of ALL hospital income is the Obstetrics Ward - decrease the birth rate and you'll see hospitals go out of business. That's a fact too because we had that happen locally - the Labor and delivery ward closed down and the hospital went backrupt within two years. :-)

Anyway - my point is this. This woman is one, very extreme and horrific case. Do NOT use her to judge ALL parents for heaven's sake. if she were normal, she wouldn't be in the news! *laughing*

Angela <><

P.S. in terms of the octuplet mother I personally hold the physician responsible. If he saw signs of mental instability yet did not do anything about it than he was putting his paycheck above the well-being of these children and that makes him morally responsible in my opinion.

Angela,

I wanted to jump in with my input regarding your post. I am not against people having many children, if that is what they want and ARE CAPABLE of doing. I think the Duggars are absolutely wonderful. When I first saw them on TV, I thought they were crazy, but as I paid more attention to how they manage a household, I became extremely impressed with their attitudes and parenting abilities. I will probably never want to have even one child, but I'm still totally fascinated with them.

I want to say this to be fair to everyone -- the appropriate family size should be based on what the individual couple wants and can afford. I believe there is no "appropriate" family size in America. God doesn't think one couple is better than another based on family size. I have literally fallen in depressive states over people telling me that "I'm not right because I don't long for children." Some people like me are not having children, but there's another woman out there that is having four or five children because she wanted to -- it balances out. I see this type of balance where I live (in Alabama).

On the subject of the economy, I don't think that more people alone solves these problems. As in many aspects of everyday living, the importance of "quality" often surpasses "quantity". I have read some [old] literature from Margarent Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. I don't agree with a lot of Planned Parenthood's modern agendas, but Ms. Sanger had some very valid points on the importance of the general population controlling family size. When excess population is introduced in a society, the individual person's quality of life decreases. Take the octuplets case. This mother will never have the money to send these kids to college. I was raised in a family of two. My hard-working parents couldn't save enough over the years to send both me and my brother to college, although they told me they would do whatever they had to in order to get us in. I worked all during high school and college so I could pay 100% of my university costs, something most kids won't do. My brother needed a little help from my parents, but he mostly carried his way as well. If it is that hard save for two kids' college expenses, how do larger families do it? Most often they can't, and the child is on their own. You don't want a society full of uneducated people because the funds were unavailable to give each individual care he/she needs.

To re-iterate, families should have many children only if they are wanted and properly cared for. But taxpayers can't continue to pay out tax benefits for every child that enters the world. People like the octuplets mom are open to abuse this system. I think that "not exclusive, but limiting" legislation should be passed to pay out significantly less tax benefits to families once a certain number of children is reached (i.e. four or five kids).

what bothers me the most about this is how people are reacting. i don't know how to react to it myself. i always wanted children, couldn't carry a child, my ex and i never agreed on adoption, finally got an opportunity to adopt, and the mother changed her mind (it was after the divorce), and now i'm starting to like my life again and i'm embracing it. however, seeing this woman who did IVF several times and now has 14 children disturbs me. in a way, i'm jealous (i don't understand that emotion at all). in a way, i'm furious with her. in a way, i'm sad for her because she is trying to fill some void in her life. there are a lot of emotions this is bringing out in me.

however, i hear comments from friends of mine that really disturb me, and i don't know what to say to them. things like "she doesn't even have a husband." or "she should adopt those kids out because she's not able to afford them" (coming from a few ladies who have almost 10 kids between the two of them). other things like "she's a bad example and should have her kids taken away." i mean, if we did this to everyone who was a single mother, was poor, made a bad decision, or went through depression, would that be fair? of course not. but these ladies i hear (all of them have children mind you) are spewing such venom toward her. i don't agree with what she did. no. however, i don't know if i have the right to say things like that.

i do feel like some of y'all are saying that the dr was trying to increase his numbers. his fertility clinic had the lowest live birth rate in the nation (i read that somewhere, but i don't remember where). when i was trying to find a fertility clinic, i looked them up in my state and then looked at their success percentages by age, by fertility issue, etc. if they had a higher percentage of "take-home babies" (horrific term if you ask me), i made a note. those were the clinics i called. the one with the highest numbers refused to treat me. i think it was possibly because he knew with my fertility issues, i wouldn't be successful, and it would just damage his reputation.

i think this girl's dr knew she was fertile and would be able to carry the pregnancy. so maybe he paid her to take the extra embryos? maybe he did the treatment for free (after all, just one cycle can be anywhere from 10,000 to 25,000 depending on what you do) because it would help his numbers? he does have another patient in a hospital right now who is pg with quads. she only wanted one baby, but for whatever reason, he put more than 1 embryo back. this woman is in her 40s and is at high-risk for stroke right now from what i read.

but no matter what is wrong emotionally with her, i don't know if i agree with my friends saying her children should be taken away from her. maybe i'm just a softie though. i do want to know why dr phil didn't recommend his little pathways program to her. i think she could benefit from it. find out what is missing in her life and how to get it the right way. because what she's been doing isn't working apparently.

it's all a big mess. and it's all very sad.

Even before the details trickled out (remember, initially she was saying she received no public support, paid her own way...) I thought something seemed fishy. And I thought that the infertility doctor was irresponsible. Those meds are hard on the body, and unless there is a valid reason (her already having 6 kids 7 and under, puts her out of the running, imo) to put her body through that, it is bad medicine to do yet another in-vitro cycle.

And she was single. Lived with her parents. Um... really bad idea to have more kids.

And she thinks she is going to finish school (with 14 kids?) and support them all (and pay back those student loans that she used for in-vitro, no less) on a counselor's income? Yeah, right.

I'm not sure what should be done, now that those kids exist, because they sure as heck did nothing to deserve the life she will give them, but some sort of safe-guards need to be in place to prevent someone from bilking the system like this in future.

I just read that she may get a "reality" show out of this. If that happens I will call the network to protest! The media should be ashamed of themselves for covering this woman the way they have. It's only adding fuel to the story and her story sends such a poor message. She's selfish and irresponsible and obviously not of sound mind. And of course, she will be comepensated for it. I guess, in this country if you screw up enough you'll be rewarded. Unreal!

I just am having such a hard time with this and the publicity it's receiving. The welfare of the children is paramount and this woman only cares about her own needs. No wonder her parents have had enough. As far as Angelina Jolie goes, she is promoting herself as well. I do applaud the charity work from them but after awhile you have to ask yourself some questions. I have a difficult time with the lavish lifestyle they lead. Tone it down a bit..stop flying around the world and give your kids a base. You don't need 10 mansions..it's a bit too much to deal with. And now we have a woman who will get her own show out of this. I've had enough of these people!!

As far as the Duggars go, I'm sure they are nice people but that many kids??? The world is running out of resources. We need to conserve things. No one needs that many children, I don't care how nice you are. How do you devote time to them? It just feels very selfish to me.