BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Democratic Party Palin Still a Pathetic Ploy

I am just amazed that simply because SP speaks English and reads well from a teleprompter people seem to have forgotten overnight that this nomination is the most ridiculous, insulting political ploy perpetrated in recent years.

Have we become so terrified of immigration that the ability to speak and read English well in front of a camera is now a primary qualification for running a country?

Have we forgotten that SP's primary VP qualification is apparently her proficiency in moose dressing?

Did a person who actually needs someone to tell her "what a VP does" actually accuse a candidate of being able to deliver a speech but not run a country?

Are we meant to be awestruck by her short-term memory as evidenced by her ability to deliver the same speech twice in a 24 hour period?

Speaking and reading English, having a working short-term memory, and dressing moose or meese, doesn't change the fact that she's nothing but fleece. She's the perfect example of the truth of Obama's statement that John McCain "does not get it." He's so out of touch with America and so clueless as to how to go about saving this country from the Bush debacle that he thinks breasts are what we need to fix things.

If that were the case, why not just nominate Pamela Anderson?

Don't let folks forget these facts. Keep fighting the fight and keep playing OUR game.

Seriously, this is always our failing - our willingness to allow Reps to not only define the game but decide what game we're playing. We're on the field throwing strikes when some Republican comes up to bat but instead of batting, he pulls out a football and throws a pass. Instead of saying, "Look at that silly person," and striking him out, we run for the end zone trying to catch the pass of absurdity.

Let's stay focused this time. Let's not let them come onto our field and change our game. Let's keep pitching strikes instead of running after passes of desperation.

It's called a stump speech and all candidates do this. It allows them to consistently deliver their message.

That's funny....coming from a party that has spent the last 8 years poking fun at President Bush for their perception of his lack of articulation.

One of the things I like about the Democratic approach is that it is pretty diplomatic. But, I do agree that there are some very key issues that ought to be addressed when it comes to the Palin issue, which deeply affect our nation. Things that are of importance, which affect all of us are:

Palin's beliefs on: "Intelligent Design"; suing the Federal Government for making the polar bear an endangered species; global warming
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When did she ban books? Can you provide a legitimate link to a factual story indicating Palin actually banned books? According to the link you did provide, the list of books is actually a list of every book ever banned in the US. A spokesperson for librarian.net said, "there appears to be no truth to the claim made by the commenter [the person that posted the list of books] and no further documentation or support for this has turned up."

The librarian, Mary Ellen Baker, resigned from her job in 1999.

The article I provided never said that she banned books. It said that she asked the librarian how to ban books, should she want to in the future. When the librarian said she would not be involved in book banning, Palin tried to get her fired. Town members then rallied to save the librarians job. This was in 1996.

Shay

You are correct; the article did not say she banned books because, in fact, she did not. Sarah Palin never banned books. This entire story is suggestive rather than factual.

The facts:
1) She asked a rhetorical question in order to discover some insight about the employee. She just wanted to hear her response. To say that she asked this question because this is what she wanted to see happen is subjective, not factual. As an employer, I use this technique with my employees all of the time.

2) Emmons, the librarian, did receive a letter from Palin asking for her resignation but the letter did not mention anything about banned books. Similar letters were also sent to the police chief, the public works director, and the finance director. All of these people had previously worked under the mayorship of a three term mayor of which they were, understandably, very loyal to. Palin had to fight hard to win the mayoral election. These letters were sent as a test of loyalty. The librarian did not resign and, in fact, continued to serve in her position until August 1999. To say that the letter was sent because the librarian refused to ban books (when she was in fact never asked to actually ban books) is subjective, not factual.

All:

Please read "The Kilkenny email" thread for more on this topic.

Many people admire and respect Sarah Palin and recognize that her experiences holding political office in Alaska qualify her for the nomination.

Demeaning her because she is attractive and 'has breasts' is insulting to most of the rest of us who are attractive and have breasts, especially those who have found success in the world through hard work and native intelligence, and others who are at home raising kids but see Sarah Palin as a mentor or role model.

While most would not vote for Palin in November without considering her political views between now and then, many would certainly think twice about voting for democrats when they feel they are being insulted via Sarah Palin.

As for asking what a Vice President does - how many people in the USA could answer that question beyond 'taking over if something happens to the President'? Why insult most of the population for not being fully aware themselves of a Vice President's duties? Maybe they assume that the VP does what Dick Cheney has been doing for the past 8 years.

Sarah Palin is not going to lose votes for McCain because comedians and Democratic party leaders insult her for being attractive and being able to shoot and dress a moose. Those facts don't need to be emphasized by the party that does not want Republicans to win in November - both are appealing to voters that Democrats need.

The media is making a big deal of her choice to give birth to a darling son with Down syndrome as if only being strongly pro-life and religious would cause anyone in their right mind to carry a prenatally diagnosed baby to term. How about finding democrats who are pro-choice moms of kids with Down syndrome who will explain in interviews that they had a prenatal diagnosis and made the choice to give birth to their son or daughter because they wanted that baby?

How about finding democrats whose 17 year old daughter became pregnant and married the baby's father, who are desperately in need of help for one or both of them to find a job with a wage that will allow them to take care of their families, go to college, save for their own home, and make a decent life for that child?

Lots of families in the U.S.A. are looking for hope for their families, and are inspired by the particulars of Sarah Palin's. What can you think to say to them that makes Obama/Biden a more attractive and inspiring ticket than McCain/Palin?

I'd like to read that here and in other forums, too.

You are not changing any voters' minds towards voting for the Democrat's ticket by attacking Sarah Palin.

Just in case no one else is telling you this, I thought I had better point it out.

Good luck,

Pam W
SE of Seattle

a person who actually needs someone to tell her "what a VP does"

I wasn't sure what the VP does either..so I looked it up..

Palin can hunt and dress a moose...
I know some woman who can hunt a deer and gut it. I cannot. In my opinion we are all products of our own culture, background, and upbringing.
Sundancer
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No one ever claimed that Sarah Palin banned books. What is factual is that she inquired about banning books. Banning books is unconstitutional in the United States. Niether one of us was present when the alleged firing episode went on. We don't know the absolute truth on that. My main point is that anyone who even suggests that they would consider actions that contradict the constitution does not belong in, or near the White House.

Shay

I can't speak for AnastasiV, but I'd like to touch on a couple of key things, here.

Strange as it sounds, lots of women are voting for the Palin ballot simply because she is female. Many women were voting for Hillary because she was female. Who even knows how many women who wanted Hillary, now want Palin, even though they are from opposite parties, and stand for entirely different policies. Not everyone considers actual presidential credentials. They get caught up instead in their own reflection - she's a woman, I'm a woman, she's a mother, I'm a mother, if she's in power, I'm in power, etc. But what they forget to consider, in the chaos of the emotional high, is whether they themselves are qualified to be president of the United States. Many people, from both sides of the ticket tend to project themselves into thier candidate of choice. Sometimes, it is a shallow projection.

Also, to vote one party against another because a person's ego gets hurt is another shallow way to vote. The purpose of voting for president of the US, is to determine, to the best of your ability, based on deep research, if a candidate will look after the best interest of the nation. Under our current administration we have been shamed and demeaned world wide. We have reached an unacknowledged economical state of emergency, very closely bordering a depression. The fact that McCain has commercially distanced himself from this administration, after voting along with it 90% of the time is kind of a red flag. Palin has voted right along with the same Grand Ol' Party. According to McCain, they are "soul mates." With enough smoke and mirror action, candidates can play out any scenerio they percieve the public as wanting to hear. And, yeah. It's happening on both sides of the ticket. But, hands down, Biden has far greater experience in the world of politics than Palin does. For me, this makes him more qualified for VP.

I feel it's also crucial to talk to the topic of not knowing what a Vice President does. We are not talking about flipping burgers, here. Wouldn't a person who is truly qualified for a job title of this caliber have a clue what their duties would be? I am truly stunned that a person who doesn't even know what a VP does would blindly accept the all of the responsiblities of the position. I personally would never apply for a position of that magnitude without doing extensive research on it, and then determining whether I was up to it or not. Especially if I deemed myself a master in my field. And only a master in their field belongs in that kind of role. If Palin was a master in her field, she would be up on all of the in's and out's of the political structuring of our government. In all honesty, what the VP does is rudimentary information for anyone holding any kind of postition in government. Governmental Structure 101, if you will. For me, as a citizen, this is an essential part of being qualified for the role. That she doesn't know, shows me that she is too unfamiliar with her own field to take a postion that high up in it. Seriously, this is so basic that to argue it's importance is actually frightening.

I think this is what AnastasiV was trying to point out. That they are frustrated with that fact that Republicans come up with these arguments that are loud and clear, but somehow lacking in intelligent reasoning, and Democrats fall right into it, without pointing out what is flawed with the argument to begin with. I am neither a Rep or a Dem, but on the outside looking in. Not being defensive of either party, because my ego isn't vulnerable, I can see both sides pretty clearly.

I don't see Obama as any kind of savoir or saint, but in an all around way, I see him and Biden as the best of two imperfect choices.

Shay

Unfortunatly, the Democrats have built a large part of their base by accusing Republicans of being sexist and racist. Obama has been using race since the primaries.

Bill Clinton, in several interviews, accused the Obama camp of "playing the race card." It was clear in the primaries that he was going to go that route when Obama gave three seperate speeches in the same day about how the mean old Republicans were going to attack him based on the fact that he's inexperienced, he has a funny name, and oh yeah, did I mention he's black.

This was just after the Primaries and he was already setting the stage of being a victim.

Palin is not acting like a victim. She says her beliefs with conviction and without studdering. She knows how many states we have. She didn't listen to hate speech for 20 years in her church. She isn't directly tied and friendly with known terrorists. She didn't accept sweetheart deals from recently prosecuted and convicted slum lords. (I can provide videos and news articles to each of these at your request)

Take a look at Obama and you will see corruption and whining and no real answers to very real questions.

-whoisjohngalt

You didn't disappoint me, whoisjohngalt. This is the Rep response I expected. Slip around the subject, distract the other party, and frantically point the other way.

The fact remains that Palin has not disclosed a single thing. Well, of course except for the "accomplishments" that she is proud of, and anyone can do if they are interested in such things. (No offence to Ma Kettle, I'm sure she's a fine gal, but the United States president?) She refuses to talk about her political substance, until the nation defers to her. A lot of us are wondering why? Why is she shutting herself away? Why should I respect and defer to a person who won't openly speak, but wants to run my country? A bigger question would be, what kind of a citizen would defer to and respect a candidate who refuses to disclose her political information to the media, until the rest of us bow down to her? Royalty, she is not. If a contender has nothing to hide, and is prepared to be, in essence, our president, what's the hold up? The presidency is not a closed door job, where get to hang your moose head, and throw yourself across your slain bear skin, to pout.

Believe me, I'm not in love with any of the candidates. But at least they aren't in hiding, while demanding respect.

Shay

Shay, I'll try harder to respond only to the points you make in this last post so that I don't "distract the other party"

There is no hiding anything on Palin's part- that is the point I am making. Obama's lawyers and Private Investigaters have combed Alaska with a fine tooth comb, looking at her political history, talking with locals, looking at her tax information, anything they can find. So far, nothing substantial has been found. If there was something, believe me, they would have found it. She is authentic.

As far as royalty- I am not sure where that is coming from. I thought I saw the Democrats build a Greek Temple (used in ancient Greece to worship the specific God within) for Obama. I can't be any more clear than this, Palin is wide open. Nothing hidden. Obama is hiding his past. Try to find out what he did as co-chairman of an education board with Bill Ayers. It should be public information, but it is currently locked up. That is not diverting, it is just a fact.

Obviously I am a conservative, just as obviously you are a liberal. It is what it is. I like to look at both forums to see what is out there, and I put my 2 cents in (sometimes a full dollar) when I see something I disagree with, I back it up with facts.

I would like to see you address the FACT that the media and Obama's campaign has been running over Palin's life with a fine tooth comb and yet Obama has yet to be scrutinized.

-whoisjohngalt

I think you are fully aware that Obama has been scrutinized down to his hair roots. They found some eyebrow raising information, which has apparently blown over.

The Greek temple, you ought to know as an American citizen, was in reference to the roots of our American governmental structure. Don't feel bad. Palin probably didn't know, either. Having children, drilling for oil on sacred lands and shooting moose are more her areas of expertise.

Palin is not wide open. She has not given one interview, to confirm or deny anything. She has only offered open refusal to do so. Outside of remote areas of the country, she is weak. She cannot stand up to pressure. A frightening example of a VP candidate, who doesn't know what a VP is.

I'm not a liberal, per sey. I just keep my eyes and ears open. This enables me to see clearly, without the veils of blind devotion making things hazy. I happen to connect more closely with the ideals of the Liberals is all. Like I said, I'm not in love with any of them. But Palin does frighten me. A lot.

Shay

I am curious at your use of the word "afraid." So far, all you have said is that she is a hunter and she is for drilling. Also, she is a Christian. She is also a working mother. Why are you afraid of that? I would think that Obama's radical ties and associations inside and outside of the country would frighten you more.

It should frighten you more that Obama wants reperations for all African- Americans, paid for by the tax payer.

It should frighten you that Obama wants a worldwide welfare system paid for by the tax payer.

It should frighten you that as a Senator, Obama asked for over 100 million dollars in pork barrel spending paid for by the tax payer. (McCain has asked for none)

I am a business owner and I try to stretch my budget as far as it can go. I have been eating peanut butter sandwiches and Chef Boyardee for a long time to save money.

The facts are that Obama is someone that average American cannot afford.

Palin on the other hand slashed government spending and balanced the budget all the while cutting taxes. These are accomplishments that I can see and weigh. Obama has none.
I will repeat that because that statement always falls on deaf ears. OBAMA HAS NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

I am curious, Shay, can you please tell me or give me the link that says Palin does not know what the VP does. I cannot find that (too much garbage in the search engines ) I would appreciate it.

The idea that he was speaking in front of a miniature Greek temple came directly from his fans in the media.

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[quote=whoisjohngalt]I am curious at your use of the word "afraid." So far, all you have said is that she is a hunter and she is for drilling. Also, she is a Christian. She is also a working mother. Why are you afraid of that? I would think that Obama's radical ties and associations inside and outside of the country would frighten you more.

It should frighten you more that Obama wants reperations for all African- Americans, paid for by the tax payer.

It should frighten you that Obama wants a worldwide welfare system paid for by the tax payer.

It should frighten you that as a Senator, Obama asked for over 100 million dollars in pork barrel spending paid for by the tax payer. (McCain has asked for none)

I am a business owner and I try to stretch my budget as far as it can go. I have been eating peanut butter sandwiches and Chef Boyardee for a long time to save money.

The facts are that Obama is someone that average American cannot afford.

Palin on the other hand slashed government spending and balanced the budget all the while cutting taxes. These are accomplishments that I can see and weigh. Obama has none.
I will repeat that because that statement always falls on deaf ears. OBAMA HAS NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

I am curious, Shay, can you please tell me or give me the link that says Palin does not know what the VP does. I cannot find that (too much garbage in the search engines ) I would appreciate it.

The idea that he was speaking in front of a miniature Greek temple came directly from his fans in the media.

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I'm curious as to why, if Palin is such a "pathetic ploy", people feel the need to attack her so relentlessly.

You answered your own question beautifully.

I don't follow politics usually, but with the way I've been feeling lately, it's just driving me nuts as to why. I'm going down the list of links on these pages and commenting on them.

Someone wrote what has Obama, specifically, done to show he can handle the presidency?

To me that's like, what can he show me that will convince me he has the ardour to make executive decisions under pressure?

He's actually giving the finger in one of these links (serious? My 10 yr old daughter wouldn't even do that). And the link here, honestly, depics more of a resume - like I expect most politicians to have similar backgrounds. As far as community service, great but... My mom and dad were band parents at NCHS. They did pretty much the same types of exhausting but benefitial community service in school and church. Neither of them or Obama, yet anyway, would convince me they could handle tough decisions that would effect people globally and as effectively as possible. Obama still feels like a scatter-brain. Maybe he's just nervous. I'm working to prove myself wrong.

As far as reparations? I've worked in social services, but never had to use the system until I divorced my ex-husband (domestic issues). I was on it for 3 months. Inside the system and out of it, rarely did I ever come in contact with people who got up each morning, motivated to change their lives. The day they picked up their check was a different story. They would go to the groccery store, (part of my job was to trasport them wherever they needed) and spend a little on food and purchase incrementals w/the rest or swap the link card use for less pennies on the dollar, cash. Aside from the elderly, most spent the money by the end of the week on frivolous things. A lot of them got their hair and nails done with the cash and I'd have to drive them there.

When you'd mentioned there was a way to get more money, unless it was free, the first words out of their mouths are, "I can't" end of discussion. They'd look at you like you were crazy - like, "I deserve this money, you want me to work and possibly lose it?" If you earn over a certain amount, your benefits go down.

To me, it's just as hard for any one of us to pay for benefits and housing. It's hard but we keep trying.

The housing, I agree (and these experiences are all over not just one area) for the most part is diplorable. You have to look for well-kept facilities, and there are a lot that are as nice as an $800 apartment (head to Blm, IL if you're looking for that) utilities paid.

My experience has shown me an imploading system. The more a person gets, the more they feel, after awhile, they deserve - like a raise. Nothing wrong with feeling that way, but I'd say 95% of the people who get welfare are NOT motivated to extract money by their own means. It enhances their victim status, like they don't respect the money, they're simply entitled.

Finally, Africans are NOT - repeat - NOT the only race who experienced a pained, historic evolution. If blacks feel they are entitled to more money, then I say every/ ALL RACES that have been mistreated and rioted against, Jewish, Native American Indian, Muslim women, etc. any abused or had their lands taken, well they get a piece of the african american fund as well. The pain isn't any different because of the color of your skin. It's just personal, when it happens to you.

___________________________



Elleise
clairvoyance Editor

I don't feel Palin is a pathetic ploy. I do feel Mccain is pandering to women's issues and votes, it just happened to work for him as far as his choice.

She feels as if there is bulk behind her words. If she says something is going to happen it will.

If people/parties get riled up over something will little issue behind it, they're running scared.

_________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor

amen to the reperations thing Elleise. I am a half-puerto rican gay jew. I think I deserve triple the payout LOL

As for civic/community organizers in Chicago go, they are hand-in-hand with local, state, and federal agencies and so forth. You'd be surprised at the amount of stuff a chicago community organizer can and does do. I was surprised when I went to work for a foundation that does this sort of stuff in chicago and they had budgets in the ranges of 8-9 figures and did a lot of work at all the levels. The group I worked for even was international, although not widely so. They were more national and local verses international.

I can see why people have reservations abotu Barack. The way I look at it is this: I have more reservations about McCain and Palin then I do Barack and Biden.

I totally hear you, Elleise. I'll talk to what I can, as a person who also has never been particularly political. I have never publicly spoken about my political feelings until now.

As I understand it, Obama is not for doling out cash to the black community in higher and higher amounts. Quite the contrary. He worked as a community organizer, yes. But a lot of it was getting people to take jobs. His views as he stands right now, are that it all starts with education. The education system in impoverished areas is horrific. This is where he wants to begin - getting these people educated, feeling a sense of self pride and a wish to be self sufficient. I agree that this is the only way to begin to scratch the surface of a generational problem that has gotten out of control. You've got to start with the youth.

And I stand up with you on the fact that the Africans were not the only one's to face the horrors of humanity. When they were placed into projects as a result of Democratic White Guilt, this was the beginning of a spiraling situation. It was just a bad idea, and it has gone horribly wrong ever since. We need to face the fact that it is a problem. Pretending that you can remove a generational sense of entitlement just by getting riled up about it, is not a productive solution.

In college, I did a study on world culture, and read a book called "The Hidden Rules of Class" by Judy Payne. It was like a huge light bulb went off in my head, and finally, I understood. I highly recommend that you read it, as you will get an excellent picture of why the minorities in these communities think and feel the way they do. It's all about culture, defining discipline, views on territory and defining priorities. I do hope you read it.

Barack Obama is not about pouring more money into welfare. He is about pouring more money into education in depressed areas. It is not a quick fix. It is a process that will take generations. There are no quick fixes to a problem of this magnitude.

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Here's what worries me. She has no respect for animal rights. She would rather continue our dependence on oil, than allow polar bears to be on the endangered list. She fought hard for it.

She has offered $500 per wolf leg, to be shot from helicopters, because they are interfering with her lust for shooting caribou and moose.

She supports the NRA.

When she was giving her speech at the RNC, she proudly announced that her 19 year old son was going to Iraq, today, actually. On the anniversary of 9/11. When the camera panned over to him I expected to see a proud soldier stand up, with a smile and a wave. What I saw was an absolutely terrified kid sitting there, eyes moving back and forth along the seat in front of him. My heart just dropped. I would never gladly send my son off to war. I was also totally grossed out when Palins youngest daughter kept licking her hand and stroking it over the babies hair. Then there is the pregnant teen daughter. Honestly, I don't see Palin as a good mother at all. I'm not impressed with her for being a mother. (Hillary was a stand-up mom who raised a stand-up daughter.)

She is a creationist.

She is ignorant about global warming. (As the polar bears slowly starve to death in her state, but who cares? Drill, baby, drill!!)

She lied about the bridge to nowhere.

I really don't need any jaw dropping dirt on her to know she does not stand for what I stand for.

I do believe that McCain chose her because he felt pressured by female voters who wanted a woman in the White House. Mind boggling thing is, it seems to be working. As if she even stood for a single thing that Hillary did.

Shay

Banning books is one of the hallmark traits and actions of a facist or totalitarian state. A government that seeks to ban books is trying to contol the flow of information and free expression. It is a government attempting to control the people by controlling information. That being the case, what does asking the public librarian about the policy of banning books, however rhetorical it was, say about the political philosophy of Gov. Palin?

Exactly, Craig. Republicans are clinging desperately to the fact that Palin didn't actually ban books, and that the list in circulation that she tried to ban were erronious, creating the illusion that the whole book banning question is a farce. The truth is, she did inquire about it, which is enough for me.

About fascism. If you look up "fascism" on Wikipedia, you will see the Bush administration's affect on America, right there in print. Palin is just one of the Bush related good 'ol boys that the Republicans are now too embarrassed to admit they fought tooth and nail to elect. Twice. He has been a horrific failure on every front. He has diminished to near ruins, one of the finest countries in the world. But, still they cling to their blind devotion to their party. This is the poster child example what Eckhart Tolle meant by "mass insanity" in A New Earth...

Shay

I am a librarian and I don't think ASKING about the practice and policies surrounding banning a book is wrong. My gosh, such BIG issues we are concerned about. ASKING about banning books as compared to, hmmmm, ties with Ayres, Rezko,ACORN, and an obvious racist and America hater Wright... yeah, this tops all of that.

You probably ought to read this article:

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What raises my ire about Palin is her current refusal to cooperate in a legislative investigation into the firing of the state commissioner. What does she have to be afraid of to make her not cooperate. It doesn't make her look good and above-the-board or a "reformer" like she is made out to be by refusing.

If someone made false accusations about an action I did I would want to get to the bottom of it and would cooperate with the people who are investigating. That would be like me not cooperating with the treasury department or the fbi when i was the victim of a check scam and they thought I was the one printing up the counterfeit checks and sending them to people and cashed one myself to throw off the authorities.

Palin doing this is like the White House refusing to cooperate into the firings of the US Attournies or other things they have claimed executive priv. to.