BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Today's Woman = Emancipation?

Hi there, I often think about what it means in today's world to be an "empancipated" woman. Yesterday evening, I had a short conversation with one of the ladies in my dance class that brought this to mind again. As we were getting changed after class, we were talking about the rest of the day. She asked me "so are you going to cook tonight?". I said "heck no, I'm home by myself, I'll just fix myself someething quick and easy". She expressed her envy at the ease of that and went on to tell me how her day had been. It made my head spin just listening to her: work until 1500, then go pick up her daughter at school, then drive to the other school and pick up her son. Take her daughter to dance lessons. Then drive her son to soccer lessons. While the kids are doing their thing, she drove to an interview. Then she drove back to pick up her daughter, drove to the other place to pick up her son, then brought them both home. Unloaded the dishwasher and loaded the washing machine. Drove to her own dance class. Afterwards, when getting home at 2000, cook a dinner for her family (her, husband and two kids). After that, take care of the laundry....

When I hear these kinds of stories, first of all, I count my own blessing! I often think my days are busy and involve a lot of running around, but when I hear these stories, I know I have it good!

But I also think about our mothers' generation. Did they not have it easier than today's woman? They were mothers and housewives and dedicated themselves to that and did a good job of it. Yes, of course I understand that many of them may not have been happy or fulfilled with their life. But... today's woman doesn't have it all - she has to DO it all! The job AND the family. This does not sound like empancipation to me. It sounds like twice the work! Is this what women want? Did we get the short end of the stick here?

My whole life I have always had the opinion that the only way I would ever even consider having a child is if I can be in a situation where I don't have to run around like a headless chicken. I would want to be comfortable enough (also financially) to be able to stay at home with the child (at least for the first three years) and really be there and do a good job of being a mom. Since that situation never materialized for me, I made my choices and moved on. I think there are very few women out there who really manage to have it all AND be happy and fulfilled. For the most part, it just looks like a huge rat race to me. What do you think?

I'm not sure if women are emancipated if they *choose* to do all the child care and do all the chores....

I do think they're silly for doing it... but that's their choice and I respect it, even if I don't agree with it.

I grew up with 3 younger sisters and my mother did *everything*... she was a housewife and stay at home mother for about 15 years (I don't agree with her decision... but hey, I was a kid...) and then went back to work when my youngest sister was about 7...

She now works 2 jobs, 6 days a week.. as she wants her own pension - my Father has paid into a pension for her, but she wants her own.. and she has worked up from a cleaner, to a senior member of staff in a local supermarket chain... and works as a part time office manager in a big computer company. Not only did she financially support myself and my other sisters through university (My Father didn't agree with University... so he refused to pay for anything) , she cooked, cleaned, did the washing, did the gardening, sorted out all bills, went shopping.... she did everything and all my Father did and still does is sit on his arse when he gets home from work.

Because of this, myself and all my sisters are very, very passionate about equality as there is no way we would *ever* have a partner who wouldn't help out around the house...

My boyfriend and I are very equal - he cooks, I wash up usually (as he prefers cooking to washing up and I like everything to be clean ASAP) ... I clean the house as he pays more rent as he earns more than me... He puts out the bins, he sorts out about half the bills, we both sort out the garden as / when needed... He'll help me with the washing (as he pays me to do this as well.. hahahahaha) About 4 years ago when we lived in another house and were both students and paid equal rent... we took it in turns to do the washing and the cleaning....

One of my other sisters lives with her boyfriend , he always cooks as she can't .. she washes up... they both clean and both pay equally towards shopping and go shopping together...

Once, my boyfriend whinged as he wanted me to put some chips in the oven and I was like 'eh? what?' he whinged.. 'I thought we could do it togetheeeeeerrrrrrr' - cue me taking the CHRONIC [censored] out of him for being incredibly lazy and me not lifting a finger - I wanted to nip the 'Oh, ok darling.. I'll do that for you' behaviour in the bud.

I know some women argue 'If I didn't do it, it wouldn't get done' - that's fair enough.. however if my partner wasn't willing to help me around the house then no matter *how* lovely he was in other areas, I would probably lose respect for him and he wouldn't be the bloke for me - unless, that is... he agreed to pay a cleaner... and the argument 'He doesn't clean as well as me, so if I do it.. I know it's clean' , I would counter with... 'Ok, well make him do it again... he'll soon work out how to be hygenic.. or again, get a cleaner....'

I think it's incredibly rare to 'have it all'... there was a 'Superwoman' in the UK.. her name was Nicola Horlicks.. she had 3 kids I think, was managing multi-million pound deals and made sure her pregnancies were over holidays so she didn't have to take maternity leave ... her marriage broke down a couple of years ago and all the papers were like 'Hahahahahahahaha, look at that... the superwoman can't have it all' ...

I'd argue that you can have a kid... and a job... however if you want to get to the very top of that industry, then you've probably got a 0.000001% chance of doing so if you have children and a 5% chance if you don't.

My boyfriend doesn't want kids.. nor do I... if we both changed our mind (hahaha, not going to happen, but bear with me) then I know he wouldn't be willing to quit his job and take a part time one... well, neither would I... so we would still remain childless..

It's not even a matter of getting to the very top of your profession, even if you want to reach the mid-management level... women are underrepresented. Why is that? Is it because they do not get the opportunities? I don't think so. I think it's because most women - once they make the choice to have children - realize that they cannot dedicate themselves to a career as they would have to in order to get somewhere. So they draw back... take a time out... those are the women who stay at home, then come back part time and have missed the boat. I do believe that it is extremely rare to do both (mom/job) and to do both well. Something has to give.

Yes, our moms did all the work around the house, but at least they didn't have a full-time job, too! Today's woman is loaded down with both, and nine times out of ten, she's the one who keeps the home in good shape. Funny how the woman cleans, cooks, straightens, washes, etc... while the man "helps"...

I see a lot of women overworked, overstressed, overtired. Is that what we wanted when we talked about empancipation?

I realize that there are a lot of couples who share the work equally. I'm talking big picture here, though. Sometimes I look at my girlfriends who don't work (very few) and I envy them for just a bit. I say "gee, I wouldn't mind being a stay-at-home mom... but only for about a month, then it would get old!". One of my oldest friends stays at home (two young children), sometimes I envy her (her husband is the bread winner, she loves her life and is a good mom), of course she envies my life style (single, no kids, travel for work frequently). We often joke about changing roles for a month just to try out the "other side". I know the grass is always greener, unfortuntaly, for today's woman, it is often times not a choice between one or the other, but she has to shoulder both!

Actually, I wouldn't be so sure about that - My sister is 24... she works in administration and she has been praised by her boss, her bosses boss, all the people she works with as she does such a good job.

She is also vastly underpaid and has been told by her boss that he will try and get her more money as he appreciates she is likely to leave soon if her effort isn't recognised.... She heard the Director talking about her... 'No, I'm not giving her more money, why on earth would I give a young woman more money when all they do is get married and get pregnant? where does that leave me? so the answer is no....'

I'd say a lot of companies *don't* give women the same opportunities as they don't want to be left in the lurch when they decide (as all women want babies, right?) to get knocked up... Oh, they say they do, lest they be sued to buggery... but realistically, are we given the same opportunities? Nope...

I've heard a lot of women say that for them, raising a family is much more important than having a 'good' career and when they give birth to their baby... their mindset changes and promotion etc doesn't matter any more - Man... don't know about you but that scares the [censored] out of me - I know it's awful of me to say this... but I respect women far more for having a career than I do for having children and staying at home.... (however I'd actually say I respect women who have kids AND hold down a full time job the most as I know how stressful it is to simply 'work' , let alone have kids...) I mean...

'Hey, how are you? so what do you do?
1) I'm a Doctor / Lecturer / Animal Care person / Teacher / Consultant
2) I'm a stay at home Mum

Sorry... but I'd be more impressed with answer 1...

Perhaps many women are overworked, overtired etc as they're too scared of asking for help, lest the hoards of mothers and feminists pour scorn on them... 'what? you can't cope? pfftt' I mean, you know how much [censored] a Mum would get if she admitted.. 'You know what, sometimes I really wish I hadn't of had kids' or 'Sometimes, I really hate my children' ... also, once you have children.. you're then looking at raising your kids on your own if you choose to walk out of the marriage as your husband is a lazy arsehole... and as loads of mothers work, but only part time... I don't think it's something they could do easily..

All excellent points and very interesting to read! Thanks for sharing all these ideas with me. In my field of work, I see over and over again that it is those women who have chosen to be child-free that make it in my company, as climbing the ladder entails several geographical moves, being flexible (we are a 7-day-a-week business) and putting up with a lot of demands, working long hours, travel, etc.

That's why I'm saying that (at least in my world) women do have the opportunities, but if you really want to make it and get ahead, you have to make a concious choice, since starting a family will usually prevent you from contributing as much as you should/could to your career.

Yes, my girlfriend (whom I spoke about earlier) often tells me herself: "before I had children, I thought my career was everything (she worked at a bank), but then once I had kids, I realized that these things are not really that important anymore."

I guess you can consider yourself lucky if you have a spouse who earns enough to support the family. Only then can you allow yourself the luxury of saying that! Incidentally, she is now starting to work again as the kids are growing and she needs/wants a new challenge. Obviously, after having been out of the work force for about 10 yrs, her skills are quite rusty. I have been nagging her for a long time to at least brush up on her PC skills (she did not know how to send e-mails...). She kept saying "one of these days...". Now that she's back at work, she is getting confronted with these skills, whether she wants to or not, and of course, it's not easy for her.

BTW, I see what you are saying about your sister. I believe there are some jobs in which it is very hard to get ahead. Administration is too vague a term to understand. If you mean "secreterial work" by that, yes, I have done that for many years and know how hard it is... sometimes these jobs are dead-end jobs. If she can, she may have to put her foot down and give them an ultimatum, more money or I go elsewhere...

I think this is such a huge subject. I live in "suburbia kid-centric" land and NONE of the women work. I often wonder if something was to happen what would they do? Big houses, expensive SUV's, all the "appropiate baby gear", tennis lesson, etc.?? I see some of the older ones that have raised their kids or they kids are in college and they still don't work. They now consider their resting time now.

I do get it though. I an now working part time after taking off two years. I really enjoyed myself and kinda miss my freedom. I know you can't plan for everything but my husband makes a very comfortable living and we do have a great life insurance plan in place BUT I know you can't plan for everything. I am about to go take a personal trainer course in Dallas real soon and have that under my belt as well. But again, I do miss staying home and may talk to my boss about only working two days a week and not three!! Does that seem crazy too? I guess I could be a hypocrite????

She's in some weird graduate job position.. she did phychology (or however you spell it) at Uni... and then applied to work at a Waste Management company.. so she deals with clients such as Honda, Vauxhall etc and sorts out skips and barrells for them to dispose of their hazardous waste or something...

I've told her she needs to look elsewhere, whether she does or not... I dunno...She enjoys working with the people and feels guilty about leaving people in the lurch... but that's a whole other story

Yes! I totally agree with this. I'm so grateful and happy that so many women before me fought so hard so that I could vote, work outside the home, make my own way and not need a man, etc. But I have to say that in their passionate quest, they seem to have forgotten the logistics of managing a household--SOMEONE has to do it and the men are sure slow to come around My mom's generation was really the first one to enjoy somewhat equal rights, but I remember my mom always working hard all day at the office and then having to come home and do everything there too. Heck, my dad still doesn't lift much of a finger and he's retired now while my mom's still working! But, I think my generation has been somewhat successful in getting the men to pitch in. My DH and I both do an equal amount of household chores, etc. and it's no big deal. I also see so many posts here about other DH's doing their share. So maybe we are getting there!

My sister and I were just talking about this last night. I am married, have a home and a full time job. I get up at 5:30AM and leave my house before 7:00AM. I work from 8AM until around 4PM or 5PM and then commute an hour home. My husband will cook, feed cats, clean the litter box, pick items up at Target, etc. but when I comes to the majority of the household work, it falls on me....and usually the woman. I do the laundry, I grocery shop, I plan out the meals, I dust and vacuum. You get the picture. Last night, I got home around 6PM, ate dinner (which was ready and waiting) then joined my sister for a trip to the grocery store. Got home by 8:15PM, put everything away (DH put items in basement freezer) then I made our lunches for work the next day. Around 9:00PM, I needed to change the bedsheets and get work clothes ready for the next day. By 10PM, I was ready to pass out and that is what I did.

I love my DH but I know that if I am expecting him to morph into Susie Homemaker, I have an uphill battle. He just does not see "mess" the way I see "mess". It is not going to happen. To be honest, yes, this issue DOES contribute to the myriad reasons that we do not have children. To do everything that I do AND to throw a child into the mix would put me over the edge. I darn well know that the majority of the child care issues would fall on yours truly and I would harbor resentment, for sure.

I actually said to my sister last night that we may be liberated women but all that means is that we work full time AND take care of the majority of the housework. Is this better than what women had in the past? Yes, we are now able to take care of ourselves, support ourselves if need be and not feel trapped and dominated by men or stuck in bad marriages if we don't want to be. I do see many women who tend to their marriage, work full time and have to handle children as well. This is not what I want for myself. The "me time" that I do have is all mine and I don't feel that I am neglecting my child by taking a bubble bath or reading a book. If I had a child, I am sure I would be quite a grumbly nightmare. Many moms look harried and exhausted from handling and having "it all".

I was just thinking about this topic this morning - the other day I was listening to the radio and the morning DJ was talking about how women aren't entitled to "special" treatment anymore because we wanted "equal rights". I've heard this kind of thing before, expressed as "Chivalry is dead...and women killed it." This kind of thinking pisses me off. It's like men (in general) patronize us, "Don't worry your pretty little head about politics/working/earning money. Just keep the house clean and have babies. But if you want to work and vote, be careful what you ask for because we're still going to find a way to disrespect you and treat you like less of a person." What they fail to realize is that we don't want special treatment, we want equality.
If we both work, we should both clean the house. If we have the same degree, we should earn the same pay. I don't know if any of this makes sense, but it's just my 2 cents.