BellaOnline Forums Beauty and Self Self Development happiness and change

Hi,hollyelise

We were having a good discussion about happiness. Let us continue.
We were talking about those who believe in making others happy.
They may have low self esteem, you said and I commented back.
Let us go from there.
I am enjoying talking to you.

Hi,hollyelise,

Here is a request.

will you please participate in the child abuse forum for few days.
You can contribute substantially.
Especially about-

How to identify an abused child.
How to identify an abuser.

Again, i see "making others happy" as a seperate issue. We haven't touched on it directly, but the whole concept that we can make someone happy, is flawed, or at least i think so, and it is my understanding that the field of psychology teaches that we can't make others happy. We each have choices we can make for ourselves, so none of us can "make" someone happy, or make someone else do what we think would make them happy. If we could make our loved ones happy, then there would certainly be fewer unhappy people in the world, and fewer suicides and life threatening addictions, don't you agree? The best we can do is offer opportunities to others, which they can choose to accept, or not. They may see things differently, and choose not to accept the gift, advice, help, whatever, because they don't want to, or don't think it will make them happy, or they may want to do something else. Sometimes in families, one person's deep love for another makes them wish with all their heart to make another happy, and yet for all that desire and effort, it doesn't always happen.

I am more interested in figuring out what individuals can do for themselves when they wish to be happy, and what additional things i can do for my own happiness. I am happy sometimes, but i would like to figure out, if i can, how to be more reliably happy, day in, day out. I know that for me, helping others does often cheer me... but i also know that it is a temporary feeling, and cannot alone turn me into a mostly happy person. When i leave the person i have helped and left the presence of their happiness or relief, my own happy feeling from that experience quickly fades.

What i have found is attitude and focus seem to have much, if not everything to do with happiness. Optimism seems to be part of it, appreciation seems to be part of it. To the degree that i've been able to change my focus to more positive things, i have improved my moods.

But i am certainly a flawed person. I have been through much and have an over-abundant supply of sad and difficult memories when i choose to dwell on them, and they can quickly leave me feeling discouraged and pessimistic about my present and future. I can also be sensitive to irritations that appear in the present (unfortunately, i may just have given an example). I wish i were less sensitive to irritations, and i'd like to learn how to be less prone to negative focus. Sometimes i wonder if it is like becoming fit of body... that i need to exercise my "happiness muscles" not just smiling, but i mean, through daily practice improving my focus, love, and optimism. If it is like a muscle, or a habit... well, it won't change in a day. It will take diligence.

I think nearly everyone has had enough sadness, loss, or hurt that if they dwell on it, it could consume them. But then i wonder if the converse is true... that we each have seen enough beautiful things, experienced enough love and joy that if we were to dwell on it more, and on the blessings of each moment, that it could fill us up.

I don't happen to be Jewish, but there is a line from the Talmud that i think i can remember... something like, "God will on Judgment hold us accountable for each blessing we failed to recognize."

Sometimes i talk too much, and then feel like an idiot.

It will take me time to respond fully to what you say. But you are making tremendous sense. Let me tell you that if you continue, one day you will be able to write a book - My quest of happiness and how I obtained it or something like that.
I will revert to your post very soon. It needs to be read repeatedly.

Do you accept my request for child abuse forum?

I will go look at the child abuse forum, and then see. i suppose if i look, its too much to hope i won't say anything... hahahahhaa. I would be glad to be of help, but i am a little concerned about my focus.

Someone who was a survivor of child abuse once said to me, "When you're on an airplane, they tell you if the cabin loses pressure, you MUST put the oxygen mask over your own face before attempting to help others." hahhaha. I never forgot that. And no, she wasn't suggesting not to help others, she was just saying don't be an idiot, be sure to take care of yourself!

Also, thank you for the compliment. I actually came to this website for stimulation and to hear other views and ideas, because i was contemplating a book on this subject and had already started notes... not because i feel i know anything,... but because i hope to discover through writing about it, and yes, if i can help myself, perhaps others could help themselves with the same ideas.

In an interview when asked how he got ideas for his books, D.H. Lawrence said something like, "I don't write to say what i think, i write to find out what i think!"

RESPONSES IN BOLD LETTERS. THANKS.

Again, i see "making others happy" as a seperate issue. We haven't touched on it directly, but the whole concept that we can make someone happy, is flawed, or at least i think so, and it is my understanding that the field of psychology teaches that we can't make others happy.

I AGREE WITH YOU HERE

We each have choices we can make for ourselves, so none of us can "make" someone happy, or make someone else do what we think would make them happy. If we could make our loved ones happy, then there would certainly be fewer unhappy people in the world, and fewer suicides and life threatening addictions, don't you agree?

YES, I AGREE. LET ME TELL YOU THAT I HAD NOT THOUGHT MUCH ABOUT THIS. YOU MADE ME THINK.

The best we can do is offer opportunities to others, which they can choose to accept, or not. They may see things differently, and choose not to accept the gift, advice, help, whatever, because they don't want to, or don't think it will make them happy, or they may want to do something else. Sometimes in families, one person's deep love for another makes them wish with all their heart to make another happy, and yet for all that desire and effort, it doesn't always happen.

I AGREE AND I HAVEEXPERIENCED IT FIRST HAND

I am more interested in figuring out what individuals can do for themselves when they wish to be happy, and what additional things i can do for my own happiness. I am happy sometimes, but i would like to figure out, if i can, how to be more reliably happy, day in, day out. I know that for me, helping others does often cheer me... but i also know that it is a temporary feeling, and cannot alone turn me into a mostly happy person. When i leave the person i have helped and left the presence of their happiness or relief, my own happy feeling from that experience quickly fades.

I AM GETTING YOU.

What i have found is attitude and focus seem to have much, if not everything to do with happiness. Optimism seems to be part of it, appreciation seems to be part of it. To the degree that i've been able to change my focus to more positive things, i have improved my moods.

WE NEED TO KEEP OUR FOCUS ON POSITIVES. AGREE.

But i am certainly a flawed person. I have been through much and have an over-abundant supply of sad and difficult memories when i choose to dwell on them, and they can quickly leave me feeling discouraged and pessimistic about my present and future. I can also be sensitive to irritations that appear in the present (unfortunately, i may just have given an example).
I GET THE SAME FEELING AS YOU.DITTO

I wish i were less sensitive to irritations, and i'd like to learn how to be less prone to negative focus.

I NEED TO TELL YOU SOMETHING HERE. I AM ALSO SENSITIVE TO IRRITATIONS AND LOOSE MY FOCUS. AFTER THAT I IMMEDIATELY BEGIN THINKING ABOUT THE WHY OF THE PERSON WHO IS IRRITATING ME. THEIR IQ MAY BE LOW, OR THEY MAY HAVE SET IDEAS OR THEYCOME TO IRRITATE ME AND PROVE THEMSELVES RIGHT. I ANSWER THEM IN BRIEF OR SOMETIMES AVOID ANSWERING ALTOGETHER AND CARRY ON. I FAIL MANY TIMES AND CONTINUE TO DWELL ON IRRITATIONS.

Sometimes i wonder if it is like becoming fit of body... that i need to exercise my "happiness muscles" not just smiling, but i mean, through daily practice improving my focus, love, and optimism. If it is like a muscle, or a habit... well, it won't change in a day. It will take diligence.

iT TAKES YEARS TO CHANGE HABITS. BUT A STEP A DAY ALWAYS HELPS.

I think nearly everyone has had enough sadness, loss, or hurt that if they dwell on it, it could consume them.

THAT IS NOT TRUE. SOME OF US HAVE MORE AND SOME MUCH LESS.

But then i wonder if the converse is true... that we each have seen enough beautiful things, experienced enough love and joy that if we were to dwell on it more, and on the blessings of each moment, that it could fill us up.

THIS IS TRUE.

I don't happen to be Jewish, but there is a line from the Talmud that i think i can remember... something like, "God will on Judgment hold us accountable for each blessing we failed to recognize."

Sometimes i talk too much, and then feel like an idiot.
SAME WITH ME. BUT I DO NOT FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT RIGHT NOW.I AM ENJOYING MY DISCUSSION WITH YOU AND TRYING TO LERAN ABOUT HAPPINESS. [/quote]

I think that I have sixth sense?
This month is for Child abuse.
If you do your bit, that will make me Happy.hahahahhaa

Are you enjoying our conversation?

There is no contradiction here. Stop, wait and think, before becoming defensive.
In a situation where abuse is rife, and there is a victim subject to the bullying and control of another, the emotion of happiness does not exist. It becomes a question of survival, trying to live from moment to moment, from day to day, just getting through the torment. happiness is not an emotion you can ever see arising in such a situation. Relief may be the closest thing to it, when the torment stops momentarily, but you cannot find any happiness there.

Secondly, to find inner peace, serenity and Joy whatever the situation, is not something that can happen in an instant, overnight. It can take years of personal training, changing ones' mindset, and it also takes acceptance, surrender and release of all causational conditioning, be it physical, be it emotional.
Many people faced with this scenario - myself included, in the past - would have scoffed and ridiculed such a notion.
But having experienced such a transition for myself, in circumstances I would prefer to not allude to on public forum, I can now attest that it is indeed the only way to achieve true, lasting permanent happiness.



I unreservedly apologise if this is how you perceive my responses. The written medium, and the brevity of a thread on open forum make faceless, voiceless discussion difficult to interpret. Condescention is the furthest thing from my mind, please believe that. I can sense you are irate, and I am sorry for that.
But this too is an emotion you might like to examine separately....
"Why do the "Truths" of others succeed in winding us up, when in fact they are as ephemeral and unsubstantial as a breeze tickling a leaf....?"

Please be serene. This is a great thread.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

I am sorry, too, Alexandra. When i made that response i was on the defensive already because of something unrelated that happened before i came online. I'm sorry i snapped at you.

____________________________________

Now, what next?

I'm sitting here in the dark in front of my computer, it's 4:30 in morning. I can't sleep again... tried a few times tonight and tried my hypnosis tapes and warm milk and a bath, and herbs for sleep. Still no luck. And it's usually in the dark of the night when my thoughts are the most discouraged. I know other people get this way too, sometimes they are in agony. In the night, you think you're thoughts are real, (haha) and they're not! The thinking is distorted and sometimes you even know it is distorted but you believe it anyway. This is the front lines, i guess... when you try to remember hope and happiness when it's dark and quiet and no one is there.

In just a couple hours, the sun will peer over the horizon and chase the darkness away. Even within the hour, birds will start to sing the coming of the day. Sometimes i've heard the phrase, "As different as night and day," but why is it so different? The world is there even when we can't see it. And how come our thoughts can be so different, when it's the same world? Two people can live through the same experience, and one will see light, and the other only darkness. Why?

I'm just rambling... circling round and round in my head until it finds and answer or tires out.