I run some Japanese sites on my own, because I love the culture. It amazes me how many men come because they're looking for a meek servant Japanese woman whose only role in life is to pleasure them and make them meals! I know several Japanese women, and they certainly aren't doormats ...

I realise this is a terribly old discussion but this topic fascincates me and I just stumbled. I have been avoiding work all day and plan to continue to look for terribly fascinating things to occupy me, hehe.

Are the Japanese women younger women? Many of our grandmother's(or great) might be called subservient or submissive but many women of my generation certainly are not! I think people tend to look at an older era in general in reference to this.

That being said, I very much was under the impression that an older Korean couple I know of had very strict roles for behaviours. I was shocked when I realised the wife was giving the husband a good tongue lashing in the kitchen. I later discovered that he felt it very important to make efforts towards his wife's happiness and that he did not always win arguments.

I have realised that this particular woman learned the art of allowing her husband to be the head of the house particularly in public but would discuss her issues with him in private. He in turn respected her opinion and need to have some control of her home and life. I could certainly respect this but it's not always how I have seen Asian women and marriages portrayed in books and movies.

I remember the first time I told a neighbor that I was from mississippi. He told me that he'd send his wife over to learn real homecooking. For some reason he had the idea that southern women were all submissive, meek, housewives!

I really think that it's the older generation, where women really were submissive, that has set the stereo types for asian and southern women. There are many men (and surprisingly some women too)who wish that we were back in the age before women were allowed to vote, or really have any rights or responsibilities (besides having babies).

When I was single, I was constantly being hit on by men who had this erroneous idea about southern women. Luckily I met my husband, who realized that if he treated me like a doormat, I'd stomp on him and leave <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am from south Louisiana but am now living in south Mississippi. I am acutely aware of the varying beliefs about what southern women should be. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is just people and their culture/ customs. I studied a lot on asian culture and am learning as a go on (even though i'm really young, i understand this topic). But things are changing, we are entering into a new era of life, a new generation. I, myself am asian. I am half filipino(my mom is filipino) and half samoan(my dad is samoan). In my house, my mom runs the show. But still my father is not bossed around. Anyways, the world has changed, many woman are not subservient, anymore...only in certain places.

Anyways, i think i lost what i was saying.

I hadn't even thought of that, but that's very true. When many people think of a "Southern US Woman" they think of a soft, quiet woman with a drawl that makes lemonade, keeps the house clean. She might have a bit of spunk when you're dating, like Scarlett in Gone with the Wind, but in the end she's supposed to be submissive after being "tamed".

I like that doormat analogy a lot. It's not that I think women should be better than men or anything like that! But a woman should be respected, and her opinion should be *as* important as the man's. Not better, and certainly not worse. She shouldn't be expected to put down all of her own hopes, fears and desires and just kneel by the guy, waiting for his next command.

Yea, true. I just finished expanding my learning on Southern US Woman in the 1930s. I just finished reading the book: Harper Lee's To Kill a Mockingbird. It was an ok book.

Many things are changing and are changed. Woman are becoming more dominant. But still i don't think that we will ever be fully the equal of men. Its not like one day a woman can run for president.

Anyways, i agree with you. It depends on yourself if you will let yourself be bossed around by another (meaning a man). Thats what "can" make you become subservient.

Thats how japanese woman end up becoming subservient. Some of them are quiet and don't speak up, letting their husband or whatever, boss them around.

However, things are changing, that is my main point.

It is me again with my so "popular" opinions. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You should never be only guided by the "exactly the same importance for male/female opinion" thought. Let me explain myself. You should only be guided by this in situations where you're equal. Then - yes. When a man or a woman has a better knowledge in something, then his/her opinion counts more. Hope you agree with this. If my wife does the cooking for example and I tell her "put butter in there!" and tells me "no, it will spoil it!", her opnion counts more, since she knows it better. Silly example, but I hope it shows nicely what I intend to say. If you, all your life are obsessed with equality in opinions, sometimes, some really bad decisions may come out.

By the way, in S.Korea in most cases, women are treated like dirt. Not good, but it is in present days.

Yes, in situations where one person has more knowledge, than it makes sense to rely on that knowledge. But you should never assume that one or the other *has* more knowledge or influence just because they're male or female. I know many women that maintain their own cars, and in my family my boyfriend does ALL the cooking. So to choose based on knowledge is completely fair, and that's all that I was saying. Don't say the guy always gets final word just because he's male <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

S. Saturn, I bet we have a woman running for president in the next 10 years and that one will win <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We already have many women governors, many women senators and representatives. Many CEOs of major corporations are women. They've already proven they can handle leadership. In many cases, the women were much better than the man for whom they took over. They almost have to be, because they have to 'prove themselves' just because they have female body parts instead of male ones. The brain inside that body is just as capable.

Anyway, it still kills me that a mere 100 years ago women were being denied college, because they weren't "smart enough" to be able to absorb advanced college teachings!! And now in today's society, *over half* of all college kids are female. Meaning there are more women in college than men.

**nods head as reading the previous reply**

I see, well, i think i'm done in this topic. I think its cool that the Philippines, their president is a woman. Now that is something.

interesting thread here....

Even in modern Japanese society, women who are heavily tattooed are often immediately assumed to be "Yakuza property," that a woman would only look that way if owned and controlled by a man.

And yet, in Japanese mythology, there are repeated stories of meek women who get abducted and tattooed against their will. Then the woman is possessed by the spirit of the tattoo, and usually takes a violent revenge against the man who tried to possess her.

- Rae

I know this topic is really really old but I hold high respect for woman and agree with you guys on the doormat Anology and that times have changed. I think the days of subserventwoman are over but hey I don't mind. I don't think I could handle someone waiting on me hand and foot even if it's just in public. I would find that annoying. I just hope you guys or woman rather don't do it to us to much anyway. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was actually thinking about this topic today in regards to a story I'm writing. In it the heroine is presented with a choice - to stay where she is (a war-torn area in a fictional setting) and defend her homeland, or to go off with a guy to live a life of luxury and peace elsewhere. The heroine realizes that some women might love that life of luxury, but that she would much rather stay and fight for her homeland, to use the skills she's learned and to feel the rewards of doing a job well.

I was wondering while contemplating all of that just how many people (besides me I guess) would choose the 'hard' life rather than the 'soft easy' life. Which is sort of what this topic is about. What if in life I could have a guy that just smiled at me all the time, brought me slippers, made me food and said "Yes whatever you want" constantly. I think that would drive me insane!! I want a guy that is a partner in life, with his own aims and hopes and desires and thoughts. We'd keep each other entertained and challenged and constantly learning. If I just had a meek, mild servant who never said anything but parrots of my own thoughts, I would really be annoyed. Maybe it's just me ...

Nope, it's not just you lisa. My hubby went through a phase when we were dating where he thought that was what I wanted. It drove me insane! It was nice at first, to be pampered... but then I realized that he was pretty much being spineless just to keep me happy. I remember I used to pick fights with him for no reason! And he'd just let me win, which would make me more mad, and turn into an endless loop of me being ticked off! Finally we sat and talked and got it all worked out. He still pampers me, but it's like someone caring for their partner, not some fawning lackey irritating you lol!

Hmm perhaps that's why the only true date I have had slapped me in the face. Well I no next time now. that most woman only like that in small little dozes God I love this forum. LOL <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LOL! That's right square, you listen to us and we'll turn you into the ultimately datable man lmao! eh, every woman is different. My best friend can't stand any kind of pampering... at all. period the end. Not even spas. I don't know why, but that's just how she is. I think that she feels like it's a bit of a waste of time. On the other hand, my mother DEMANDS pampering at every second. (That's propbably why she became a lawyer, so she can be pampered lol)And my sister in law would fall apart if she wasn't babied.

I personally think that the relationships that last are the one's that have balance. When someone is babied, they tend to act like a baby. And it seems to belittle the person. It's FAR better to be equals in all things. There's my two cents (again lol) <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Oh don't worry I will Listen and I hold heartly agree with you about the equals thing. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This may be off subject, but Do japanese women/ culture believe in adultry ? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

In Japan, women are largely financially dependent on their men due to lack of opportunities for employment and, when they are employed, receiving only a fraction of a man's salary for the same work, so it's not like a woman can freely leave (especially if she has children to feed, too), if a man has cheated on her. It's the same in many, many countries.

It's in USA the cheatin' dog will come home and find his clothes on the lawn and locks changed -- but not so much in other countries.

Thats because, before spanish colonization filipino women were equal to men in status. In fact women were sometimes religous leaders. And when women married they didn't take their husband's last name they kept their own. Oh and I wouldn't consider filipinos asians but their own ethnicity. We are just considered filipinos, well maybe for the occasional mestizo(filipino/Asian,filipino/caucasian,filipino/pacific islander.) I myself am an full-blooded filipino, I am descended from the indios(native islanders) with no spanish or chinese blood.

did you know that there is no way to say, "I love you" in japanese? Sure you can express it in various ways but because of the evolution of the culture there is no way to actually say those words in Japanese. Someone can be your lover, "aijin" but you can't say "I love you" it is so interesting.

hi!
I've got japanese buddies, and i wouldn't call any of them subservient. they may not be as outgoing as women of other nationalities, but they know their own minds.

Nowadays, with all the younger japanese girls dying their hair blonde, and going for the fake tans, etc. i think the subservient japanese woman is well and truly dead. But, then again, some japanese ladies are rebellious in their younger days, but mellow out and adapt more of a role as they get older. Still i think things have changed vastly in Japan.
[color:"purple"]Health, good luck and happy days to all! [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/heart.gif" alt="" />

I have worked in Japan on and off for the last 8 years.
I have observed that my colleagues wives are very quiet at work dinners - in fact, it's often hard to get more than a few words.
I often try to include them with little success - it just seems to make them more uncomfortable.
Most of these women are housewives raising one or two children.
I'm not entirely sure why they are universally so very quiet - whether it's cultural or they lack confidence...not sure. Their husbands make no attempt to include their wives in the conversations so perhaps their participation is discouraged.
I've noticed that can happen in Australia - some stay at home Mums can feel uncomfortable at work functions but not everyone - many are confident enough to contribute and participate in the conversations. Certainly, if you make the effort - most are happy to chat.
We have a few women in the office - they are reserved but very capable - I have noticed though, it seems difficult for women to reach senior roles in Japan - still I think that will change as time goes on.
I have been told by a Japanese colleague that their men usually prefer to marry a woman without a career preferring a wife in a supportive role - so that, educated and career women often marry foreigners. I've also, been told that marriages between western women and Japanese men usually don't work out perhaps, because western women are less likely to accept a traditional marriage.
It has taken me some time to get to know my female colleagues - they are naturally reserved people however, over time we have become closer and closer - baby steps - but it has certainly been worth the time and effort.
Just my thoughts and observations.