I have a question to pose to all the wonderful people that pass through this forum. Is is possible to make peace with your abuser? Let me explain... I recently had to go to child support court with my abuser. He and I hadn't seen each other in person for almost a year. He doesn't see the kids...hasn't seen them since July 2004...this is by his choice not mine. Anyways, after court I asked him what to do with the rest of his clothes that are in my closest because we are getting ready to move. He answered me but before I walked away he was like "Jeanette I need to tell you something" I thought oh god he is going to say he loves me still or is with someone else. He looked me in the eye and said "I know I did very horrible things to you and the kids back then. I am truly sorry for everything I did" ANd I could tell he meant it. I was dumbfounded and didn't know what to say. He said "I am not saying that because I want to get back together. I am saying it because it needs to be said." I didn't say I forgave him. I just smiled, said thank you, and walked away. I will never trust him ever again nor will I ever take him back. But should I consider this as a ploy or a peace treaty? <img src="/images/graemlins/rolling.gif" alt="" />

Forgiveness is primarily about being able to lay the past aside, and stop carrying the hurt and pain, which only serve to drag us down and prevent us from 'moving on'.

Carl Jung said:
"The Past is over. Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past."

When I first read this quotation, it shook my Universe to its foundations. I realised that to prevent myself from forgiving those whom had caused me pain, was to continue to harbour the past, in the hope that my lack of forgiveness would act as some retribution against them. It dawned on me, like an explosive revelation, that Forgiveness let me off the hook. I could breathe again. And it felt wonderful.

You say that you are convinced he meant it.
Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to be a gullible Idiot. By all means withold your trust, if that is what you wish....Those who act against us must know and understand that the trust has to be earned again...That respect is not something to be expected, it is to be merited....

I'm thinking here, perhaps, that you think that if you forgive him, it means that therefore what he did becomes unimportant... It loses its impact and effect, and some part of you wants to hold on to that anger, as a justification or internal moral punishment for what he did.....

If you are convinced that he meant it - if you know within your heart of hearts that he was sincere and truly remorseful - then to NOT forgive him would actually be unMindful and not skilful....
You have a wonderful and rare opportunity here to rejoice in the ability of someone previously cruel and hurtful, seeing "The error of his ways".... This is surely something to be glad about?
To NOT forgive him at this juncture then, would simply be to keep the hurt, the resentment and the animosity alive....

So I would say to you:

Weigh, within your heart, the true advantages of the energies of Love, Compassion and Forgiveness, against those of Anger, Fear and Resentment.
Then Choose.

Never forgive those who abuse you physically. They would do that again. They believe that they have the right and power to do that. No man should ever abuse a woman.

It's not just men against women...There are countless thousands of instances of women against men....

But to not forgive means to labour under the endless effort of carrying this burden of anguish for the rest of your life.
And if you choose to not forgive, then carrying the pain and living with the hurt and grieviance is exactly that. Your Choice.
so if YOU choose to continue with all the negativity, then on your own head be it. You have shifted the responsibility of what happened, from them, to yourself.

But why hate yourself so much as to insist on persisting?

I know that I'm probably going to make myself the subject of mass disapproval by saying this, but yes, it's possible. I've done it and stayed with the man. I love him and although when it was happening (it did stop), I did go abroad, leaving him alone for a year (for my own sanity and safety). When I returned I still loved him and we tried again. After our son was born it stopped completely, apart from one rather odd incident recently, which I'm convinced won't recur. I find it a balancing act between compassion for someone else and for oneself - it's not easy, and there are residual feelings of unease, (I wouldn't go as far as resentment, although it was for a while). I put it down to being one of my 'life lessons', striking that balance. I wouldn't have stayed if he'd continued after I'd become pregnant, which speaks volumes for the state my 'sense of self' was at, and I'm aware that such behaviour is more likely to continue than not in the majority of cases. I just thought I'd share from my particular perspective as well.

Jane

in order to forgive my ex husband i separated his actions from the person this makes it a bit easier to do as you can forgive the person without feeling like you are saying what they did was ok for them to do!
it also helps disperse any feelings that go with it.
if you dont forgive it just eats you away which is as bad as what they did in the first place!
to forgive doesnt mean you have to trust!

At this point in time, I can't forgive him completely. He has finally went to counseling and isn't homeless anymore. He is getting his life together finally. I know he had a rough childhood. He witnessed abuse while growing up so I can see where some of his violent acts came from and he was aware of that as well but wouldn't go get help. He was very co-dependent on me. He expected me to take the place of his mother and take care of him but beat me up and emotionally abuse me when I wasn't "good enough". I am glad that he made a great change in his life and I want him to have a healthy relationship with his kids even if they have a soon-to-be step-dad who treats them like they are his own. ANd this is just my opinion but I personally think if I say I forgive you J., I think in his mind it will mean it was ok to abuse me. But that is how I feel.

What I think is really important is that no woman or man should be made to feel guilty for the way that they cope. For instance, people in abusive relationships often seek solace in telling others, but then feel guilty for not being able to follow through and actually leave. And that means that when it comes to a time when they actually need a more real sort of help, they feel stranded and ashamed. I personally felt that the only person who could comfort me was the person doing it to me, because by that stage I'd been so alienated. Every woman or man is an individual and even in that state of absolute despair, they need to keep hold of their own right to handle things as well as they can, without outer judgments. Does that make sense? I'm a bit 'waffley' today <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

best wishes - Jane <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No, not waffly at all... I think you make a very good and valid point... Well said. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Forgiveness is a gift that we give to ourselves, to set ourselves free." This was something that was told to me several months ago. While I believe it is true, I have struggled with forgiving my abuser. It sounds to me, Jeanette, like he was very sincere when he apologized. Yet, there is also the 'honeymoon' stage that victims and survivors go through; therefore, I would say that only time will tell. In the meantime, store his apology in a little pocket in your heart, until you feel more comfortable that his comment was truly sincere. That's just my thoughts on it. My ex still stalks and attempts to get together to do things, so I still have a difficult time of forgiving because he constantly does these things and doesn't seem to want to change. I think forgiveness is different for everyone and that we all process it on our own levels and on our own terms.

That's exactly it, Kelly... and it was Carl Jung who said:

"The Past is over. Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better Past."

The thing is, it is very difficult to release, let go and sever ties with what we experienced, if the aggressor never acknowledges what they put us through, nor apologises for the very real Pain they caused...
But when somebody has either made the effort to find us and say sorry, or when confronted with their act, they realise and make amends, then surely, the bit in us that manifests bewilderment, is the very part that they are reaching out to? The stimulation of our perplexion is a sign in itself that part of us wishes to Forgive. If the hurt and pain was so bad, we would dismiss any attempt with hostility and anger...We wouldn't even begin to think about it.

So the search for forgiveness deserves a small amount of positive feedback. Forgiveness is not giving in, or backing down. It is stepping up and being Big.
It is the first step in being able to breathe freely again, and in shedding the baggage which weighs us down....

Recognizing he is an abuser, what will it benefit you to have any contact with him? I am assuming that is what you meant with making peace with him.

I have worked with many abused persons. One of the challenges they had was releasing thier emotional attachment with the abuser.

As Alexandra quoted "The Past is over. Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better Past."

You did not deserve the abuse and there are no excuses for what he did. How easy it is for him to seek absolution from you for his behavior.

He said he needed to tell you that he acknowledges his behavior and you allowed him to do so. You were gratious in manner while he did so.

In my mind forgiving an abuser is simply not wishing him/her harm.

What an insight Alicat!

It is so hard to do this, but I think this is the goal we should all aim for. I personally have grown to hate the phrase "forgive and forget". I'm sorry, as an imperfect human being, i can't just forget stuff like that - it tends to haunt me, and come back at some of the worst times to boot!

But i can make the choice to forgive. And this forgiveness does not always mean staying with a person (if it is an abusive spouse), and it also does not require the other person to be sorry (although it is much eaiser when they are.)

But forgiving someone of a hurt done against you frees your own heart of so much anger and rage. And holding onto that is only a spiralling well that gets worse and worse.

To begin with it maybe only words, saying "I forgive" - but eventually if you say it enough times you will come to believe it, and you will find a peace that comes with it.

....Thus have I heard.....
There are different types of forgiveness, and as I have said before, I personally see my perception of things on two levels: the Practical and the Spiritual...
...So if we are to forgive someone, it is only sometimes appropriate to do so on a Practical level, but it is ALWAYS appropriate to do so on a Spiritual level. The murderer, thief, drunken driver must be seen to be accountable socially for their actions. "Social Forgiveness" in this case, would be inappropriate and let him/her off the hook.
However, I firmly believe that Forgiveness Spiritually, is something we need to develop not only for the perpetrator, but also for ourselves. And Unconditional Love and Universal Compassion are given whether the recipient asks for it or not, or whether they are aware of it or not.
In order to forgive someone, we must also release ourselves from the burden of carrying the resentment, the anger and the hatred that NOT forgiving can engender.
So, for me, Forgiveness is a two-way thing: It is for the benefit of the person's Emotional Well-being that we find Forgiveness in our hearts - and it is for the Benefit of our own Progress, that we nurture this ability to Forgive.

I have to say, '*..._..._..._...*' as it sounds, (you'll have to fill in your own word, I'm not quite sure what term to use) I actually learnt this lesson on the Oprah Winfrey show, with Dr. Phil McGraw. Say what you want about him, but it was something that I obviously needed at the time, and that hit home with me on several levels.

It's not about letting others off the hook, It's about letting yourself off the hook, and that you are simply not going to let this rule and dominate your life or hang around your neck, O N E - M O R E - D A Y.
Let them bear the burden of responsibility. You don't have to. And even if they refuse to, or don't even see it, the most important thing is to just get out of the shackles and liberate yourself.
Because as Bob Marley said, nobody but you can free you from the Slavery of your Mind.

Even though we've lumped the two words ("Forgive and Forget") into one phrase - they go together so poetically - they shouldn't be taken as a single factor or entity. The two terms require two quite different processes. One entails releasing an Emotional function, and working on a Psychological level, to release and liberate oneself from a specific issue; the other is a physical reality and mechanical function of the brain. It's what it does. It's what we train it to do. We have often said that you can't unlearn something. And indeed, barring accident, you can't. It's lodged and logged.
Naturally, the brain stores away unwanted and unnecessary information in it's Subconscious (Mental filing cabinet) which is deemed accessible through hypnotism.
In fact, emotionally damaging and negative memories can be encouraged to enter and be stored in the subconscious, in the same way, although this is a more prolonged and complex process....
But to be able to forget something, as a simple follow-on process of Forgiving, I would say is Impossible.

At this juncture, you cannot take the degree of the hurt into account. It's a bit in the same vein as " 'Do' or 'Do not' - there is no 'Try' ".
Because look at it the other way... The less you are able to forgive, the more you are giving these "transgressions" your FULL permission and endorsement to continue influencing and damaging your life.
"It hurt a lot, I can't forgive, so I can be in pain a lot; it hurt a little bit, I can't forgive, so I'll continue hurting a little bit."
Who would willingly keep whanging themselves over the head with a frying pan? It's insane! And so wonderful when it stops - !!

It truly is about releasing yourself first - fully, completely and entirely- from giving it permission to hurt you. Only when you can visualise the 'offender' sitting in a chair infront of you, and you really just want to hug that person and say it's over - can you say that you yourself, have really Forgiven.
You might never forget. But by forgiving, you rise above it. Waaaaaay above it.

You don't end up by looking at the clouds and seeing the silver lining.
Because you're walking on them.

Wow! That's what I love about everyone here. You are all honest and open with your feelings and views. When he apologized to me I was really taken aback by it. Yea I heard him say he was sorry more times then I could count, this one I could feel that he meant it. It was nice to hear but I don't think I could ever forgive him no matter what he says or does.

There is one important factor to consider. He apologized. But has he really changed? Please forgive him in your mind whether he says sorry or not. But let him suffer the pain of having abused. that will depend on his true feelings. There are evil people in this world, who act differently to what they truly are. Forget him forever and carry on. Leave him to his karma.

His karma is kicking his rear still. It has been a little over 2 years now and he is still homeless. He lives in a housing place for people with psychological problems but he is only allowed there for a certain amount of time. He can't find a job because when he violated the restraining order, he commited a felony. They charged him with stalking the second time he came back because i saw him trying to hide in the bushes. I do feel like he is sorry but I don't know if it is for the whole history or for coming back and getting arrested.

I think it one thing to forgive and another to froget. we should for give people for ourselves. we can come to a place that we can say yes you hurt me but i forgive you because i dont love you enough to hate you anymore!! and i think we should remember what it was like the worning signs, and how we felt so we can keep ourselves safe and help others. to brake the cycle as is were... but part of forgiveness is finding balance between helping other and codependce, protecting ourself and being paranoid. not all men (women) are like our attachers. but we also have to learn to trust ourselves, and forgive ourselves because even though poeple tell us it is not are fault...the voice in side of us has doubt!!! Forgiveing the other person may not mean nothing to them or they can use it against you and worm there way back in to your life. but forgiveing them(not forgeting!!!) helps you to find balance and peace because until you get to that point you will look at the world from victom eyes and you never find peace because your haunted!!

Forgiving someone has nothing to do with excusing their behavior. You forgive someone else for yourself.
Scarlett