First it was Clinton he flipped off...

Now it's McCain...

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

PLEEASE..Isn't the man permitted to scratch his face! Come on...how ignorant can people be to think it's intentional!

The first time he did it to Hilary you might could make the argument that it was accidental but you would think he would be careful not to do it a second time.

Oh please! Are you listening to the WORDS he's saying? Try that next time you watch it.

HMM maybe just maybe (I know you will certainly tell me how wrong I am) he does that all the time, like pointing or talking with your hands. I know several people who do that with "that" finger but I don't take it as a #1 gesture and I know they don't mean it that way either. Oh well it seems you just want to find fault with Obama and if this is all you got well keep digging. You can find things wrong with anyone if you look hard enough. May the best person win this election and again I will stick by whomever it is, instead of finding things wrong with them I will look and dig hard enough to find positive and do my duty as an American Citizen and stand behind them and YES even if it is McCain who wins.

Whether he was scratching his nose or being flippant doesn't really matter. You would think his PR people would have tapped him on the shoulder and mentioned to him that some people (the press) might take that gesture the wrong way and blow it out of proportion.

"Sir, that might be a little habit you try to break..."

"...and while you're at it, can you do something about that black skin of yours. People don't tend to like that sort of thing". <rolls eyes>
Give me a break!!!

That's a bit of a stretch there, Froggy Moo. A bit of an unwarranted stretch.

Considering his poignant pauses and he makes these gestures, I see it as sarcastic comments made with the gesture as a direct insult to the person he is talking about. Additionally, the response he gets from the crowd makes it obvious that they KNOW what he is doing and saying and are enjoying it and he laughs in response (during the Hilary one) to their response. I think it's rather obvious, but I didn't drink the kool-aid either.

When he meets with Mwai Kibaki as US President, let's watch and see if his scratches his nose then.

This kind of thing falls into the same category as McCain sticking ot his tongue after debate 3 (or 2..). No matter the reason or the explanation, their actions can definitely (and quite easily) be misconstrued as rude and inappropriate given the circumstance.

It really is time for comments such as this to stop.

Who cares....its over!!!!!!

Meet and greet your new president of the United States of America. He is now due your respect.....glory hallelujah.

Respect must be earned.

Yes lots of respect, but of course I had planned on respecting whomever won. That is one thing I have been saying over and over again, lets stand together....united we stand divided we fall. I am hoping others will certainly do the same, the people have elected and made known their preference and Huzzah Huzzah for our new President Barack Obama.

I've no problem being polite to the man. But, I can't support his politics; and he's done nothing so far to earn my respect.

Are you going to give him a chance or are you just going to be mad right from the start ? I have no idea what we have in store for us but I am at least willing to give it a chance, I understand that your party did not win but goodness sakes do you really believe in United we stand ? I did want Obama to win but honestly if McCain had won instead I would FIND something positive about him and honestly McCain may not be the President but he certainly isn't out of the politics so maybe you can think positively about that....or not it's your choice.

McCain was very gracious is his speech this evening and attempted to unite everyone, even his own supporters, behind President-elect Obama. McCain said he will work with and support Obama as President because McCain always works in support of his country. McCain has always demostrated throughout his career and even this campaign that the interest of the country comes before that of the political party. As his slogan said, "Country First". We should all follow his example and give our full support to the new President so that we can together support the country we all love.

McCain wasn't "my" candidate. My candidate didn't make it past the primaries. But he was the lesser of what I saw as two very bad choices.

I don't follow anyone blindly (neither people nor parties). I keep my eyes wide open. Based on Obama's stated position on any number of topics, from mandatory national service to revision and limitation of constitutional rights and redistribution of wealth and power, I feel there's little positive that he brings to the table. He may surprise me, but I doubt it.

My only hope is that the 42 % of the population that didn't vote for Obama will remember their stance on the issues and stay in close touch with their elected representatives. By doing everything we can to make sure our elected representatives really understand how we feel on the issues, we may make it through the next 4 years with some semblance of retaining our status as a free nation.

Lynne, great post. It's time to shift gears and move to the next battleground. We have survived bad presidencies before and we will survive this one, Lord willing.

I believe in United We Stand with all my heart. But this just stands logic on its head. For the last eight years, I heard the constant drumbeat of how bad George W was. I heard how we failed in Iraq. I heard how the mortgage crisis was supposedly George W's fault even though key Democrat leaders are on video standing against any type of reform and even attacking the whistle-blowers. I had thought the country was divided before. Now we have Barack and we are supposed to unite behind him and support him?

I can't do it. I have strongly disagreed with most of words that come out of his mouth. In fact, I can't find a point that I do agree with him. I can't find anything that he has accomplished in his years of public service.

I admit, and it is obvious, I do have a bias. But I tried my own exercise that I suggested a while back of finding something good about the apposing candidate. I could not come up with anything other than he speaks very elequantly.

I have literally sought out people in my travels just to ask them why they supported Obama. Nothing other than "he's going to bring change and unite the country."

I am very hurt by this election and I feel betrayed by my fellow countrymen for electing him and I just don't feel that I, in good concience, could give him my support.

And let me be clear- I don't care about his race. I wouldn't care if he was white, black, green, blue, male, female, ugly, handsom, pretty, rich, poor- I judge people ONLY the way Martin Luther King Jr. prescribed. That is by their character.

Barack has made no bones about how he feels about this country, and what his plans are.

I realize the election is over, there is nothing to do about it. My plan is to put one foot in front of the other for the next two years and then I will see if I can't help campaign for the mid-terms.

-whoisjohngalt

What is so compellingly intriguing is that for some reason, every time I come into this specific political forum, not one ounce of love seems to be shown. None. All you ever read is what someone said in another forum in this same political party, "same ole' words" of pettiness, judgemental attitudes and a lot of millenium Phariseeism.

what I mean by millenium phariseeism is this: there was a party of people that constantly followed right behind Jesus Christ, to put down everything he did. When he healed, they complained it was the wrong day, when he forgave sin, they challenged this authority. The same thing here. This is why this country is messed up.

Tonight, find a scripture in your bible, if you have one and if you read one, on love. You don't have to like Pres. B. Obama but at least pray that God leads him into helping us as a country.

It brought tears to my eyes to see all over the world, people of different ethnecities, status' etc..., they were neither Dem. or Repub. not even American, but they found something in this man to appreciate with a smile.

Find love and less complaint....that's all I challenge the millenium pharisees to do. Remember, what you say and how you judge someone, will one day come back to you....no doubt.

Kimmie, this is a serious topic. If you are looking for warm fuzzies then you need to go to a different forum.

I don't hate Obama. I don't even dislike him. Actually, I don't even 'know' him because many facts about his life were not revealed to us. However, what I don't like is his socialist agenda. I don't like his agenda to increase the death tax, increase the capital gains and dividend taxes, increase income taxes on the highest tax bracket, allow the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, as well as many other tax increases. I don't agree with his energy plan or with his health plan. In fact, there's not one thing he has presented that I agree with.

You so desperately want to make this about race but it's not about race at all. I understand the history of racism and slavery but I believe that as a country we moved past this decades ago. I am so tired of having the distinction made between 'black' and 'white.' You say you are getting tired of the "same ole' words of pettiness" well I am getting tired of this constant mention of Obama's race. I don't care if he is black, white, brown, etc. My issues are with his intentions not with the color of his skin.

If the Dems weren't in control I might feel less strongly about Obama but he has the full support of a majority of liberal, far-left people....at least for the next two years.

So far Obama has offered nothing tangible and has promised nothing that I agree on. I will always take the higher ground (the ground not taken by the Dems for the past 8 years or by the media) and I will not treat him with the same disrespect as people have treated Bush. However, I will not support policies and laws that violate my core beliefs.

Kay's absolutely right. And frankly, had this been Bush, I'm fairly certain the folks complaining about the "lack of love" here would have been running amok with pitch forks themselves.

Politics isn't about love, my friend. You can love your fellow man and still not condone what he does. I've no issues with Obama the man. My issues are with his politics and his course of action.

As for the comments about millenium pharisees, Obama isn't Christ. He isn't the Messiah. He isn't a savior. (Nor is he the anti-christ). If you feel you must be Biblical about this, Christ instructs His followers to be the light in a world of darkness and salt in a world of decay. (Matthew 5:13-16) Hence, Christians are to stand vigilant against tyranny. There are no nice, polite or benevolent tyrannies. The Bible is full of brave men who defied and resisted earthly rulers.

As citizens, we must take a stand against those beliefs we see as damaging and be ever vigilant against would be tyrants.

Kimmie, as this is the Republican forum, these are appropriate thread topics to have here and good points. It's not fair for a democrat to come here and tell anyone they are wrong. Just FYI.

It is so sad that this subject line is even being discussed. As John McCain himself said, Barack Obama is a decent person and a decent family man, and a citizen that he just happened to have disagreements with on fundamental issues.

Why are we discussing supposed hand gestures, and watching news segments about the White House dog or what kind of dog the Obamas will have in the White House, when we have the worst job loss news ever from October, terrible losses in the stock market, and other serious business for our country to focus on this week? Why are we having to listen to ridiculous stories about Sarah Palin's wardrobe or what she thinks is wrong with the media - when the media should be questioning President Bush on how Congress and the American people can work together to get some help for business, the economy, homeowners or whatever else needs to be done?

It is *interesting* to know what Barack Obama is doing during these transition weeks but we don't have a time out until January 20th - we need to know what questions should be asked from now until then of the President and elected officials who are supposed to keep working until then.

People are losing their jobs, health insurance, homes and savings; we have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and American troops are being hurt and killed every day. Why are we not demanding that the media and politicians focus on these terrible troubles and let us know who is working on figuring out what to do about it right now. I want to see a dozen economic advisors standing behind George W. Bush when I turn on the TV, and I want to hear him talk every day to let us know what is going on in D.C. Why can't John McCain be interviewed about what he is doing as a Senator working on our behalf in this crisis, instead of Sarah Palin on the anonymous comments from campaign workers about her alleged shortcomings?

Certainly for a few weeks we could address more serious topics than how Barack Obama scratches his nose. I agree completely with Kimmie - we need to be prayerful, if we've got prayers, and supportive of any inspiration or leader who is actually keeping a focus on the serious issues facing our country right down to our little neighborhoods.

Republicans have so much to offer beyond what we are reading here - and we should be demanding a focus on Republicans in office who must be working on these serious issues - including our current President who also needs prayers and support. He is not going to cost any candidates votes or loss of confidence and is still leader of the free world, so now is the chance for Republicans to show they can work within their party with him and across the aisle with Democrats and Independents.

It's going to be a bumpy ride for us all.

Pam W
SE of Seattle

I recall from my history and Catholic upbringing that the pharisees were the ones who criticised Christ. Are we once again going to try to say that Obama is the Second Coming? If we are, then I'll post the opposite just to be fair.

Revelation and Apocyliptic experts believe that the A.C. will hail from the East, be in his 40's and will have a smooth tongue- preaching unity and togetherness, while at the same time driving brother against brother. Obama fits each of these aspects.

The seas will boil- there is a supposed global warming issue put forth by high ranking Democrat leaders (not backed by science or facts) guarenteeing that the oceans will boil by 2016 according to Al Gore.

The dead will rise- ACORN is famous for voting using the names of dead people. This is big in Chicago and Obama's campaign donated $800,000 to ACORN. Technically, this could be the dead rising.

I do not post this to pick a fight, I am just offering a different viewpoint other than what the media, Democrat leaders, and Obama's Campaign- that is that he is a magical entity an uniter that we haven't seen since Jesus Christ. That he has so much in common.

I personally believe that Revelations is symbolic- not litteral and i am just offering the opposite point of view just to be fair. I am tired of hearing how Christ-like he is when the opposite can be seen just as easily.

-whoisjohngalt

When Christians compare themselves or another to Jesus Christ, they are not equating themselves or the other with Him, and I think in this case the writer admires Barack Obama for conducting himself in a Christian manner, constant criticism notwithstanding.

Although I find President-Elect Obama's Christian values refreshing, it's likely that most religions identify similar traits as being in the teachings of their religions' founders.

I identify what I most admire in John McCain's character as Christian values, also, but I'm sure that followers of other religions admire him for those traits, as well, and identify them with their own religions.

The point made about criticism, complaints and challenges holding back our progress in addressing the current economic crisis and other huge issues is valid. But both parties heaped the same on George W. Bush during the campaign, and as far as I can tell, have not let up in order to focus on what he might accomplish in the weeks before President-Elect Obama takes office. We need our leaders to reach across the aisle right now, and not wait until January 20th - and we need the same focus after January 20th, too.

I believe it's the Christian thing to do - but those of other religions no doubt feel that it is what their faith prescribes - and those without faith no doubt would judge it the humanistic, pragmatic or just plain ethical way to address our country's best interests, too.

We have a long way to go before our economy is healthy and prosperity makes working together an easier task. The election is over and now is the time to unite as Americans with serious intent on improving our nation's future. This is what both McCain and Obama promised during their long campaigns. Let's see it start at the grassroots.

Pam W
SE of Seattle

Right away I see a problem with this statement. What one may think is him conducting himself in a "Christian manner" another may not see that way.

I also don't see all of his "values" refreshing. It's obvious that those who are liberal democrats are going to differ in opinions GREATLY from conservative republicans. Especially if they are TRUE conservatives and not moderates. It's just a matter in differences of opinion. I think way too many people are taking the criticisms of how republicans feel about Obama personally because they agree with Obama so they feel it is a personal attack. However, it is not. It is not even a personal attack on Obama, but rather on what he wants to do. That is why there are TWO parties. If we all agreed, we would have no need for two parties, or moderates. We would all be in agreement. However, the issues are all so complex, and interconnected that I don't forsee us all agreeing, ever. I don't take things written here personally, mainly because life is too short. I don't post things to incite anger. I post them to get opinions. It's not like democrats have successful talk radio we can go listen to

With all this talk that Republicans are the big bad meanies, I think the people saying that should probably remember this is the Republican forum and that this is where we come to discuss matters of importance to US. Of course they are going to reflect our conservative beliefs and of course they are going to criticize things that democrats say and do because we have different opinions. It's not like we are coming to your area and posting stuff to incite hate from you.

I honestly hope that Obama does well. Not because he is a black man. Not because he is a man, period. Not because he is a democrat. But simply because our country needs some good leadership. The main problem I have is that the things he wants to change, while they might be important and yes, need help, the ways in which he wants to change them frighten me. If he can manage to accomplish great things without harming a huge demographic of people, great. Of course I will be praying and ultimately know it's all in God's hands. I am not one to start yelling it's the end of the world or anything (although I have seen plenty of that!!) but my feelings are, if it is, so what? God said it would happen, and if now is the time, who are we to stop it? It's GOING to happen (based on our beliefs, if you don't believe, you could care less about this). I plan on posting some thoughts in the religion area later to go along with this.

Toddzgrrl is totally right. This is the Republican Party's forum and the place they come to find support for their views. It is completely inappropriate to come in here and put down the Republican viewpoint.

I suggest that people seeking to debate their POVs try the Philosophy Forum, or the Current Events Forum here at BellaOnline?

Thanks Pam for your deeper understanding. And once again, they all just proved my point. As transparent as transperancy can be. Well, I tried. I tried.

I get with what you're saying Jill. You're absolutely right and that was the reason for my corrective challenge. Ooops, it didn't work. Oh, well. Everybody's got a judgment day. Everybody. So glad I know that I'm not perfect. Like I said, I get what you're saying.....

This is my last say but I thank you all for expressing negativity to the max. Its one thing to disagree but when it becomes a stoning without stones but with words, that's a whole different story.

Good dialogue everyone, see ya' next president around. Bye!

[quote=toddzgrrl02]First it was Clinton he flipped off...

Now it's McCain...

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

it doesn't look like he's flipping anyone off to my view. I can't see why he would do that, or why anyone would do that.

I saw the Clinton video, I didn't see the McCain clip. At the time I heard about it, I didn't believe it so I asked my husband to pull it up so I could view it. He was doing it alright.

I have no respect for this person either (instincts and all) but this is just more physical evidence as to why. He has a lot of emotional supporters right now who will bypass anything that comes to the forefront about him.

What is absolutely wonderful is that each day, he's one day closer to leaving so we can focuss on the future. No one in politics is going to outwardly speak against him because he is the first black president. Plus if something does happen to him, they certainly don't want their party to be blamed.

It's funny to watch some of the celebrities answer the question about how they feel he's in office. Their eyes kind of go left and right and they all say something like, "I'm just truly, truly blessed to be a part of this historic moment." or my favorite, "Well, Jesus was a community organizer." There's just nothing passed not wanting to get public negativety.

I really, wish Powell would have followed through with running for president. I hadn't voted before then and he was what got me to register, then he left the race. I remember reading his quote as to why he was pulling out. He said he wasn't ready for the "politics" and what it would do with the time he has with his family.

____________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor

I have watched the videos in question several times and do not see it, sorry. And what if he did do it intentionally ? He is a human being, and apparently from what all of you are pointing out, he is a human being with a sense of humor, and that will be really refreshing for the White House. It seems like several of you are so geared up to think negative about our upcoming President, that is what you will get. Focus on negativity and that is what you will get, negativity and really you can find "bad things" about everyone but shouldn't we be trying to focus on the "good things" instead ?

I would also have been pleased had Powell run for office. It's too bad he decided against it. I bet this would have been a very interesting race for the White House, had he stayed in the game.

Now that's the right attitude, Great American Galt dude.

So the audience broke out in appreciative laughter because the guy "scratched" his face? With his extended middle finger? Just how natural is it for all of you to fold back all of your fingers and scratch yourself with your middle finger? I joined this site because of the republican forum, but it's routinely invaded by people who are here to argue with us- why? Because you think that arguing with us will change our minds? I don't spend any time in the dem forum, because I don't belong there.

I've watched both of them - and I see where everyone is talking about, but I really do not think it was intentional.

The main reason is, he has extremely long, thin fingers - "piano fingers" my mom would have called them. Before I gained all my weight, my fingers looked much like his (and I do play the piano - I can reach over an octave), my 3 children have the same types of fingers.



The reason I put this picture up (other than I love showing off my daughter every chance I get!) is because she is supposed to be "shooting" her fingers at the cheer judges. But if you notice, her middle finger is kind of sticking down. Her coach is always getting onto her about her fingers sticking up at odd angles.

My piano teacher was constantly rapping my fingers for sticking up in the air when they weren't on the keys.

Both of my sons (one is 17, one is 5) will scratchg their noses with their middle finger or push his glasses up with his middle finger - because it is the longest.

Mu oldest son has Asperger's and gets really upset with people when they laughg at him for using his middle finger, because he doesn't realize he is doing it and means nothing by it.

I did NOT want Obama as my President, but I'm not going to be upset about little things like this. We can probably find TONS of pictures of other Presidents doing similar things, but it is just not worth the time to go looking. I think it is simply an unconcious motion. But I bet whoever winds up being his Press Secretary brings it to his attention now, and we won't see it anymore!

If we notice him doing it at odd times, not when he is talking about an opponent, I could see your argument. And after knowing that is how people took it he had tried to explain it or apologize for coming across as doing something like that, I could understand it, but I've not seen him do it at "normal" times when it cannot be construed as shooting the bird and I have not heard him deny that is what he was doing, and in fact, he LAUGHED with the crowd in one video of him doing it, so yeah, I doubt it was just because he happens to have long fingers. We'll see in the next 4 years because it seems like it might be habit. We'll just have to see which habit it is. Flipping the bird or scratching an itch. I think timing when it happens will prove it one way or another, although imo it is already proven.

Another point in the video of Obama speaking of Hillary video, after his "scratching," he has a tough time speaking because he is trying not to laugh. He obviously thought somebody did or said something funny. His words were saying that they try to get a jab at one another at every opprotunity. This video also provides the reactions of the crowd directly behind him in slow motion.

One woman says, "What happened?"
The other says he flipped Hillary the bird.
The first womans mouth gets really big with shocked appreciative laughter. Obviously not a reaction to his words.

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Whatever. Obama doesn't have Asperger's and he knew exactly what the h*ll he was dong. I have no doubt it was intentional.

That is a super cute picture Michelle. She looks just like you.

I think that is about the most wonderful compliment I have ever gotten, Thank You! (Because I of course think she is the most beautiful girl in the world.)

Did you see the clip a few days ago of Snoop Dog - he was on Martha Stewart's show? They made mashed potatoes, and when he was done he flipped Martha and her entire audience the bird - either that or he used his longest finger to reach into the bowl, grab some potatoes, and eat them.

It's all in the observer.