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Posted By: whoisjohngalt Big Brother is Listening - 10/31/08 08:33 AM
Is anyone else nervous about the power that the Obama campaign has at their disposal even before Lord Barrack is elected?

I am refering to this:

Within 24 hours of the Palin VP announcement, a team of lawyers and PI's went to Alaska to try to dig up dirt on her and destroy her credibility. When they found nothing, they, with the assistance of the media, made up stories and presented them as facts.

One could obviously argue, she entered the political scene on her own and this should not be a suprise.

Okay then, what about Joe the Plumber? He was out in his yard playing catch with his son when Obama came down his street. He listened to the soft questions that Obama was used to getting and then went and asked a serious question.

Barack was obviously not expecting somebody to quesiton him because in less than two days, government agencies and resources were used to investigate, and discredate Joe. He is a private citizen who questioned Lord Obama.

It is not the governement's job to investigate and destroy those that do not agree with it. It is supposed to be protecting those that cannot protect themselves.

Obviously the media was an accomplice in all of this as they were doing their best to take the focus off of Obama's answer and put it towards destroying the life of a private citizen.
I see this as a step in a bad direction.

Example number three is a reporter named Barbara West who interviewed Joe Biden and asked him some very tough questions. Biden thought it was a joke because they weren't the usual questions he was used to from his friends in the media. Obviously a rogue reporter.

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Whoisjohngalt,

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I think you have gone overboard in trying to make it.

For those of us that already think Obama is treading the Socialist line - this post is redundant. For people who are voting FOR Obama, this just sounds like you are making fun of them.

For those that are still stuck on the fence, all the snide comments make them think that you have no true argument against Obama, and that you must resort to sarcasm and flippery to make fun of an opponent.

You would do far better in a debate to stick to facts than fling insults such as "Comrade Obama". It makes your point get lost in the bitterness.
Posted By: Lady J Re: Big Brother is Listening - 10/31/08 03:45 PM
my thoughts exactly
Posted By: Froggy_Moo Re: Big Brother is Listening - 10/31/08 09:07 PM
I also agree with Chelle. I can see how, from your point of view, it would appear that we are headed toward the bleak future you're proposing. However, you have to admit that you have a bias. It's not like the McCain camp isn't employing people to dig up dirt on Obama as well.
And don't even get me started on the whole "wire tapping" of private citizens from the Bush administration. That's the literal example of "Big Brother listening".
Posted By: bepart Re: Big Brother is Listening - 10/31/08 10:22 PM
My husband and I have been discussing the very issues you described and we are nervous as well. We are extremely scared for our children and future generations. We were actually discussing what other countries or islands we could move to in order to avoid the ruin.

It's sad to see such crowds blindly looking at Obama as being someone who can 'change' their lives. So many people have an illusion as to what they feel Obama has to offer and they are grasping at this illusion without doing their due diligence. They are ignoring what he is actually saying, they are ignoring his past, and they are ignoring the facts that are being withheld from us.

As Fouad Ajami so correctly stated in yesterday's WSJ: "The morning after the election, the disappointment will begin to settle upon the Obama crowd. Defeat - will bring heartbreak. Victory will steadily deliver the sobering verdict that our troubles won't be solved by a leader's magic."
Don't get me wrong, I'm not voting for Obama. I do agree that many of his proposals very definitely toe the line of Socialism.

My problem with the beginning post was the wording that was used. Debating always works much better, and you can convince more people if you can make your point without snide comments and sarcasm. Those are usually seen as signs of a weak argument.

Have I mentioned I was on the debate team in both HS and college and loved it? LOL! I often chose the side that I personally disagreed with to argue in a debate, because it is actually easier to stick to "just the facts" when you are not emotionally involved in the subject.
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/01/08 01:44 PM
The book "1984" comes to mind.
I do love that book!
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/01/08 02:26 PM
I do too. I love most futuristic type books like that for some strange reason. I just think it's interesting and some of the stuff really does apply sometimes. And it is so believable that it could happen (or in some cases, does happen). I do think that the media is controlled, somewhat. Not all, but some. And I do think that if Obama were to be elected and the fairness doctrine enacted, it would definitely be a control. It's not the conservatives fault that liberals do not tend to listen to radio as much as we do so their stations fail, and yet we will be the one's to suffer. The station I listen to out of Chicago which is under ABC has already said they would be off the air if the fairness doctrine comes into play again, which means no Rush Limbaugh unless I buy a membership and get it online, which may be what people end up having to do in order to listen to conservative talk radio.
Posted By: bepart Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/02/08 12:15 AM
It amazes me that anyone would be in support of a candidate that is trying to push the Fairness Doctrine. First the government will police the airwaves and then they will sneak their way into policing every aspect of our lives. Sadly, they will do this with the full support of many Americans. I just don't get it.
Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 11:38 AM
I stand by my statement of Comrad Obama. With everything in my heart and my soul. I just watched my country, that I love more than you would believe, be delivered into the hands of a man who has blatenly lied on an almost daily basis. Who has directly said that he WILL form a system of redistribution of the wealth. Who is directly tied with rigging our electoral process in the form of giving ACORN 3/4 of a million dollars. Who is directly tied to an unrepentent terrorist. Who was mentored for twenty years by a black supremeist.

I come to this forum to know that I am not crazy. I come here because on the road, I see Obama after Obama after Obama bumper stickers and only the ocassional of any other party. When I would stop for breaks and eat at truck stops, I can't help but feel frustrated hearing other people talk about how great Obama is and then not be able to tell me why. Just, "He's going to bring change."

It's like I'm living in a twilight zone. I have to watch everything that is great about my country be destroyed because we just elected someone whome the DICTATORS and TERRORISTS around the world endorse.

As far as stick to the facts, Michelle, I am suprised to see that one. I have put more facts on this forum building a case against Lord Barack that there is no way anyone (in their right mind) could possibly vote for him.

Not to mention, the McCain camp stuck to the facts the entire electoral process and was branded as racists every time they did.

WELCOME TO RUSSIA

-whoisjohngalt
I have not accused you of not sticking to the facts. My point is your facts get lost in all the sarcasm and hate speech. If you have paid attention to my posts - I agree with you!!!

However,as a moderator of these forums, I cannot aloow hate speech to go on in these threads. I am giving you the opportunity to remove the offensive words.

If you feel you cannot make your arguments without being hateful, then I will just delete the entire thread.
Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 12:55 PM
Originally Posted By: ChelleLaunch&Spirituality
You would do far better in a debate to stick to facts than fling insults such as "Comrade Obama". It makes your point get lost in the bitterness.


My apologies, I thought you had said that I should stick to the facts. I may have misread your post.

-whoisjohngalt
Perhaps I should have said stick to facts only.

My point was that the facts you were trying to present are often getting lost in the tone of bitterness and sarcasm. You do make some excellent and very intelligent points in every post. But sometimes they get overlooked because you come off as being almost "rabid" in your opinions. If this were a religious debate you would be labled a "fundie" (something I've been accused of myself). grin

Politics & Religion, there are very few subjects that bring on so much passion and heat (good and bad) as these two topics.

It is very hard to put aside personal feelings and argue from "just the facts, ma'am". But in politics it is imperitive we do so.

Personally I don't want the leader of my country chosen by a bunch of people on a hate binge. Of course, now it is too late to determine how anyone voted. We have who we have.
Posted By: Elleise - Clairvoyance Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 01:46 PM
Originally Posted By: whoisjohngalt
Obama who is directly tied to an unrepentent terrorist. Who was mentored for twenty years by a black supremeist.

I come to this forum to know that I am not crazy. I come here because on the road, I see Obama after Obama after Obama bumper stickers and only the ocassional of any other party. When I would stop for breaks and eat at truck stops, I can't help but feel frustrated hearing other people talk about how great Obama is and then not be able to tell me why. Just, "He's going to bring change."

It's like I'm living in a twilight zone. I have to watch everything that is great about my country be destroyed because we just elected someone whome the DICTATORS and TERRORISTS around the world endorse.

As far as stick to the facts, Michelle, I am suprised to see that one. I have put more facts on this forum building a case against Lord Barack that there is no way anyone (in their right mind) could possibly vote for him.

Not to mention, the McCain camp stuck to the facts the entire electoral process and was branded as racists every time they did.

WELCOME TO RUSSIA



Hi John,

It's kind of nice to meet here on a regular basis and it is a place where you can or should be, anyway, able to vent. There is a lot of sensitivity about race these days, in my opinion - too much emphasis is placed on it, while broader issues are left on the way-side. It's skin color, that's it. I have to admit, you can take this how you need to, but your posts do sound sarcastic, BUT the impression I'm feeling is that it has more to do with frustration about where this country is headed and not that you have hate towards a black man. Again, that's my opinion, again, groups of people still feel the need to walk on eggshells, hang in there these days WILL pass. Eventually people will see for themselves other races will be featured as making progress. They make this progress becasue they don't get caught up in complaining how they use to be treated and what happened. I personally have a horrible line of holocaustic history in my family. We don't sit around in our spare time and re-hash it. It was horrible, we give blessings and acknowledge to the souls that endured pain and suffering, they are in our daily thoughts and we put sweat and sacrifice into making our mark here and now - not gripes.

To your original point as to why you are seeing or say Obama stickers over and over agian, there are so many factors and if you've been "out there" you can see how the state of our country has been spiraling downward for some time now. People, and rightfully so, are absolutelly sick to death of it. You won't probably want to hear this either, but it is a direct result of greed. You'll never take someone who can get their way, take a lifestyle where they're in control, financially, socially what have you and they just wake up fresh out of bed, stretch and go, "whew, glad I got that out of my system...let's do this the more difficult way."

I know this isn't a popular view, but I enjoy a great deal of the immagrants I meet. They have a go-to attitude. They are genuinely happy to be here, make a life for themselves and their family, starting a business and making a dream out of their own two hands. They aren't going to be able to comprehend being placated to for the votes. Would you? I would be so busy taking every day into account, learning my way around a different country, the concept wouldn't even graze me.

As far as terrorists go, have you ever had a situation where your life is just falling apart, one step after another? To you, you're just focusing on how to make it better or are so emotionally charged with a situation you may not notice until someone points it out that watching you is painful - maybe it's an illness or what not. The point is, it's not as bad going through it as it is someone watching. Terrorists work the same way. What they're going through makes sense to them and the people really close to them. To the outside world, it's painfully obvious that it is a negative way to promote change.

There are a lot of things we don't have control over. I do encourage you to vent. I'd rather you did it here or some other forum than take it out on the road or inadvertantly someone else that doesn't know what your feeling. This is a supportive atmosphere but it is also conversational. If you want to put something down on words, pretend you are actually talking to a room of people and see if the point would go over as best it could under adversity. We can't make each post a perfect one and you don't have to leave out facts just because it might offend someone, but just maybe they could be presented in a different manner.

Someone wrote to me in an email that so often emails and posts do get taken out of context. so much is left out that the person reading it has to interpret for themselves. Sometimes you just have to take into consideration that people, if they are defensive or insecure will take it as negatively as possible even if that's not the way you intend it.

Outside of this post, a lot of times I will leave the computer and go back and read my post with a clear mind and judge my own wording. Not every time and I won't leave out how I truly feel, but like I said, sometimes it can be worded better.

I do enjoy your posts btw.

___________________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor
Posted By: Vance - Crime Editor Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 01:48 PM
Making fun of Obama and actually the Lord Jesus Christ is not sticking to the facts. Sarah Palin may have been investigated when the VP candidacy was announced, but then everyone is investigated when they are nominated to public office like that.

Obama didn't lie about things like his tax plan to ease taxes for the middle and lower taxes, in fact everyone who makes less than 250,000 a year will receive tax breaks according to his plan. That has been proven to be true.

If he introduces Socialized medicine would that be a bad thing? Canada has Socialized medicine and they are a thriving country still.

Also, I dont know how you can compare Obama to Hitler, that is just assinine especially when you say that the people of Germany could have prevented Hitler from taking power or how they could allow him to rule the country. It wasn't as if they had a choice in the matter.

Maybe Obama will be a great president or maybe he will do a [censored] job we wont know until he takes office. He cant be any worse than his predecessor or any of the other presidents that have done not such a good job.

Oh, and dont think for a minute that Big Brother isn't already watching us and the American people have no say in that either. Plus Michelle wasnt saying you were sticking to the facts, she was commenting on your "Lord Obama" and the "Comrade Obama" comments.
Posted By: bepart Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 06:55 PM
whoisjohngalt,

Thanks for writing this post. I, too, needed to see a like-minded person and know that I am not crazy. Fortunately, I live in a red state and McCain/Palin signs are not uncommon. I am deeply saddened for our country and the direction we are now headed. I am also deeply saddened for the people that have put their trust in a man who will eventually fail them. The fall will be hard.
Posted By: Jilly Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 11:15 PM
I for one will defend anyone's right to an opinion. I may be a Democrat, but as this country was founded on tolerance, I support people's right to disagree. This is what makes us strong!

But I am firmly with Michelle on the hate talk. We can't have posts that are inflammatory, disrespectful and mean-spirited on any BellaOnline forum. It's not why the forums were created and hate-talk is strictly against our signed membership terms.

We see this in not just the political topics, but also in the family topics, the pet topics, the religious topics and even the crafting topics sometimes! We, as mods, have to put a stop to it in all cases, so don't feel singled out. smile
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 11:34 PM
Trolls, I've noticed.

Hate talk, not so much.



Posted By: Jilly Re: Big Brother is Listening - 11/05/08 11:37 PM
Right, Troll-talk. smile
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