BellaOnline
Posted By: octave3 The Kilkenny email - 09/06/08 03:44 PM
Please make sure that you read this article before voting on November 4th:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: bepart Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/07/08 03:13 PM
The Kilkenny email is a media joke. Why would you read this and take what she says as factual? Have you questioned the writer's motives? It is pathetically frightful that anyone would read a random email such as this and not hesitate for a moment that it could be based on lies and jealousy.

Any person, rather in an elective office or not, has enemies. If Kilkenny were a close, personal friend of Palin, she would not have written the email. Therefore, one must conclude that she isn't her friend so deduction leads us to the conclusion that she is her enemy. Which then makes you believe that this letter was written by a bitter, jealous person. I, personally, wonder if this letter wasn't written at the direction of a democratic official. Maybe the letter was the craftiness of the same group that released Palin's personal information (SSN, etc.) to the public.

Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/07/08 05:00 PM
Kay, your paranoia is showing. The letter is not a media joke. It's been vetted by numerous organizations. And the Kilkenny email is "fair and balanced," as you Fox News Junkies like to say. No doubt that Ms. Kilkenny is not on friendly terms with Ms. Palin, but that's because Kilkenny came to the defense of the librarian that Palin tried to sack over the book-banning thing. Palin is now infamous for her ability to carry a grudge.

John McCain is 72. The average life expectancy of an American male is 75.6, and most American males haven't had cancer and they haven't spent 5+ years in a Vietnamese prison camp.

It is simply too dangerous to put Palin a heartbeat away fom a presidency for which she is clearly not ready. She's not even ready to meet the press!
Posted By: bepart Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/07/08 05:13 PM
Quote:
It's been vetted by numerous organizations.


Which organizations? Also, what are Kilkenny's credentials?

Basing your decisions and thought processes on facts is smart decision making, not paranoia.
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/07/08 09:56 PM
You mean the banned book list that included the Harry Potter books that were not even published yet?

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 12:11 AM
BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 12:43 AM
Correction: Kilkenny has know palin for 16 years, which is 15 years and 11 months longer than the rest of us.

The frightening fact of the matter is that Sarah Palin is quite simply not ready or qualified to be commander-in-chief of the United States. Kay Bailey Hutchison, the senior senator from Texas, would have made an excellent choice for Vice President. She is experienced, respected, and conservative, except for that one thing: She is pro-choice.
Posted By: bepart Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 01:59 AM
Quote:
Kilkenny made Palin's enemies list for defending the Wasilla librarian.


So her only "credential" is that she is an enemy of Palin's? If so, her motives would certainly be questionable.

Are the links you provided suppose to be your response to the question regarding organizations? I don't have time to click on links and research the question. I just thought you might know the answer since you made the claim. Besides, I would hardly consider "urbanlegends.com" and some "blog" to be a reputable source of information.
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 03:09 AM

Her "credential" is that she's known Palin for 16 years. None of us did before a week ago. She's not an enemy of Pain - It's Palin who makes enemies.

"Urban legends" is a website that checks facts much like factCheck.org. Nation is a reputable journal. If you don't have time to follow links, why bother wasting time writing to me?

A vote for McCain/Palin is dangerous. Caveat emptor.

Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 05:51 AM
Okay- I spent a good portion of my time today trying to find any credible source for this E-Mail.

Not one. Only Blogs and known liberal sites.

-whoisjohngalt
Posted By: GrannyH Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 04:31 PM
confused Haven't we lost sight of why we are here. There are some very real issues that divide, and that is where our energies should go. But instead the issue is someone's e-mail.

Why should anyone who lives in a community and takes part in the events of that community need credentials to discuss some of those events? As long as Ms Kilkenny is a citizen of the United States of America, she has the right to an opinion, and has the right to express that opinion. She also has the right to talk about information that is part of the public record.

I have received a number of e-mails that come down on the other side of this candidate. There has been no discussion if they are legit. Or if the writer had the right to express himself.
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 08:44 PM
Well, unless you want to label half the internet as "Blogs and known liberal websites" you'll have to concede that the letter is valid. This Seattle site claims to have received permission from Kilkenny to post the letter:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: Elleise - Clairvoyance Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 09:22 PM
The feeling I get specifically on this election is both are wrong for the job, Mccaine and Obama. I don't feel/see either candidate fitting this bill, this election. In fact it feels a majority of people feel stuck, as in they feel forced to vote against their better judgement. Neither are prepared and anyone who might be, is simply not in the lime light at this time.

Obama holds the most energy as far as what I'm getting. He isn't prepared, no matter how many celebrity persons he gets in his favor, media coverage, special interest groups, etc. This man will do little, effectively and will blame something or someone else if he gets that far. I should add, I feel it is specifically this person not the party overall. I see positives in both parties. For him specifically, it's all emotion, cliches and bumper stickers. It isn't real and again, something in the house greater than he is counting on something w/him. He is a key player, they're simply watching as it unfolds, as in not really in his corner. He, nor his supporters will see this.

_____________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor
Posted By: Shannon L. Wolf Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 09:24 PM
Elleise, what are your feelings about Palin?
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 09:54 PM
For the sake of argument, let's say that Obama isn't qualified, Joe Biden is, John McCain is, Sarah Palin is not.

That makes both teams qualified. One of those teams is going to lead the nation for the next 4/8 years, no matter what any of us do. Now let's say that the president, God forbid, dies. Which team is now better qualified?



Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 09:57 PM


Check out what your colleagues at ivillage are saying:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 10:10 PM
btw, Palin made her first real gaffe today. Her economic ignorance is showing:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/08/08 11:52 PM
Okay- this E-Mail is getting silly. "Half the internet" does not think it is real just like there is not a "concenses in the scientific world" that global warming exists. This is faulty liberal logic.

Secondly, the link you posted about Sarah Palin's supposed gaffe is not really a gaffe. We the tax payers have bailed out these companies before. Within the last year in fact. It cost us billions.

The reason we had to do so in the first place was because liberals in Washington pressed for the number of loans to high risk people (the poor) to be increased from 42% to 50%. Because the companies were backed by the government, they had no problem going along with the illogical requirement.

Now we are in the present and people are suprised that most of these high risk people forclosed. It was stupid to make these companies government backed in the first place, but I guess if it is only the taxpayer's money, it doesn't matter.

It is not a gaffe. If you would like a gaffe, ask Obama how many states there are- because he's been to 57 or 58.

Maybe you could ask his THREE HUNDRED advisors. I didn't have three hundred people in the town I lived in.

It is obvious that the tax payers cannot afford another bail-out because people are already stretching their incomes as much as they can right now. There is no gaffe in that- only common sense.

-whoisjohngalt
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/09/08 01:56 AM
The Kilkenny email is authentic.

Palin doesn't understand big-league economics.

Nobody knows who Palin is.

Palin beleives that pipelines and the Iraq invasion are "God's will." (Where have we heard that before?).

The rest of the world is laughing at us - again - for (trying to) elevate another deluded Bible Thumper to high office. Don't believe me? Check out the CBC, the BBC, the Frankfurter Allgemeine, and Le Monde.

A Palin presidency would be a disaster. Think carefully before you vote.



Posted By: jettagal Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/09/08 02:13 AM
Originally Posted By: whoisjohngalt
Okay- this E-Mail is getting silly. "Half the internet" does not think it is real just like there is not a "concenses in the scientific world" that global warming exists. This is faulty liberal logic.
-whoisjohngalt


JG, it seems rather pointless to argue with someone who only wishes to listen to their own side. Octave is not open to opinion except her own faulty one. The harder Octave tries to convince everyone that he/she is right, the more redundant this gets.
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/09/08 02:22 AM
The Canadians are laughing at us:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/09/08 03:40 PM
The British are laughing at us:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/09/08 08:32 PM
Originally Posted By: jettagal
Originally Posted By: whoisjohngalt
Okay- this E-Mail is getting silly. "Half the internet" does not think it is real just like there is not a "concenses in the scientific world" that global warming exists. This is faulty liberal logic.
-whoisjohngalt


JG, it seems rather pointless to argue with someone who only wishes to listen to their own side. Octave is not open to opinion except her own faulty one. The harder Octave tries to convince everyone that he/she is right, the more redundant this gets.


Thank goodness for the ignore feature smirk laugh
Posted By: Elleise - Clairvoyance Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/09/08 09:47 PM
Well put Toddsgrr.

This person seems like someone simply shouting loudly enough to hear their own voice.

Maybe people go in and out of these things/blogs, simply to try to suade votes for the other party; mission only.

____________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor
Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/11/08 12:14 AM
I agree jettagal, I just want to make sure that those who turn to these forums to find out about the VP candidate do not get inundated with lies. I want to make sure that they see the facts about her history and her record first. I am having a tough time keeping up with Octave's persistence. smile

-whoisjohngalt
Posted By: jettagal Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/11/08 12:23 AM
I wouldn't call it persistence, John. It is more rather like fear of facing truth, or stubborness in hanging on to a lost cause or unwilling to face facts or maybe just a tantrum fit. The more someone feels they do not have all the facts or truth, the louder they get.

Let's face it: if the democrats have to pay people to say dirty things, then they must be running scared.
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/12/08 04:18 AM
"democrats have to pay people to say dirty things..." ?! Not sure I know what you mean by that.

You're right about one thing - I am running scared. After round one of Palin with Charlie Gibson, the idea of Palin or McCain commanding our military is very scary indeed...

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/13/08 03:01 PM
Some are still questioning the veracity of claims in the now-infamous Kilkenny e-mail. I gently suggest that all of you read the following article from factcheck.org:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/13/08 10:40 PM
... and speaking of facts, I know that none of you Republicans will read this article, because Fox News has convinced you all that The New York Times is owned by the devil. But some of the rest of you who peruse this site might find it illuminating:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: jettagal Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/13/08 10:58 PM
BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/14/08 01:59 AM
Speaking of gibberish, I know that you'll appreciate this cartoon from the Great Oliphant:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/15/08 02:55 PM
Here's an update. FactCheck.org still hasn't validated all of the claims in the Kilkenny email, saying only that "we will be posting something on this soon." Meanwhile, PolitiFact.com has analyzed the letter, and has declared Kilkenny's statements to be "half true" to "mostly true":

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/16/08 12:00 PM
Quote:

Translation: No one has, as yet, found anything untrue about Kilkenny's statements. Jes' the facts, ma'am..


Quote:
Kilkenny's statements to be "half true" to "mostly true":



Oh, that's right, in libspeak, "half true" to "mostly true" is the Gospel truth... I forgot. As long as it is HALF true and MOSTLY true, it isn't UNTRUE... crazy Yeah, makes perfect sense to me.
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/16/08 01:28 PM
Politifact is very cautious about the assignment of truth to statements that are difficult to completely verify - But if you'd bother to read their article, you'd know that they validated the claims that are contained in Kilkenny's letter.

Now here's a little Con-Speak for you: "Palin is a Pentacostal Whack Job."
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/16/08 08:58 PM
ok, this is from politifact

1. Kilkenny is not a fan of Palin. For that one reason alone, I have to take into consideration she has a bone to pick with Palin and will be biased.

2. Repeatedly, the email is referred to as Kilkenny's THOUGHTS. Thoughts may or may not be fact. They could also be opinion. Which goes back to my #1. She is biased based on her dislike of Palin.

3.
Quote:
Palin once tried to fire the town librarian after the librarian made it clear that she would oppose efforts to remove books from the local collection. Palin was the freshly elected mayor then, and although she didn�t have any particular books in mind, she posed what she later called �rhetorical� questions about how objectionable books could best be removed. It's a murky issue, but we dove in and ruled Kilkenny's statement Half True.
So here we have a half-truth. HALF-truth. I put a lot of stock into half-truths, don't you?

4.
Quote:
Kilkenny, a Democrat, said she does not share Palin�s political point of view.
Again, just reiterating that she does not agree with Palin's politics or way of doing things anyway, she is a Democrat. Of course she is going to be critical of Palin and paint her in a negative light.

5.
Quote:
Another thing she has learned: The public is very distrustful of the media. �But they are very trustful of me,� she said.Which she finds a little alarming. Because, she said, they really don�t know who she is. She could be anyone.
Perhaps a little warning there... she could be anyone. I totally agree. Why would I put all my faith in her based on one email that, again, has not been proven to be 100% accurate or TRUE in its claims.

Now, let's go to factcheck.org. Yes, I AM educated and visit VARIOUS sites online to gather facts.

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/16/08 11:41 PM
My goal in coming here was to get as many people as possible to read the Kilkenny email - say what you will about her, but she has known Palin for 15 years and 51 weeks longer than any of the rest of us.

Seen the numbers lately? This is the hottest topic in the political forum. You flaming me only helps.

Mission accomplished! :-)
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/17/08 12:08 AM
If your mission was to be proven wrong, you are right, you accomplished it!
Congratulations!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/17/08 02:29 PM
My mission was to get open-minded people to read Kilkenny's e-mail, so that they could educate themselves. Mission accomplished.

As a side note, raising the dander of narrow-minded rightwingers like you is kinda fun :-)
Posted By: jgabriel Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/17/08 02:57 PM
30 MILLION DOLLARS SET ASIDE TO PAY PEOPLE TO SPREAD LIES! IF THEY WILL PAY PEOPLE TO DO THIS, WHAT ELSE WILL THEY PAY PEOPLE TO DO?

WAKE UP AMERICA!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/17/08 04:25 PM
Please see my remarks in the "Independent" section. And please STOP SHOUTING. Your hysteria is showing.

If your implication is that I'm being paid to do this, you're wrong. I'm doing this as an independent - not affiliated with any campaign - because I love my country, and I don't want to see it make the same terrible "mistake" that it made eight years ago. (NB: I put "mistake" in quotes because we all know who really won the 2000 election.)
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/18/08 01:39 AM
NBC News report on Palin:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/20/08 11:46 PM

And now this from ABC News - which tends to verify Kilkenny's statements:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/21/08 01:26 AM
I'm sorry, what does this have to do with Kilkenny, the librarian, and the banning of books?
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/21/08 02:13 PM
It's a verification of Kilkenny's claim that the police commissioner was fired without case. See the new thread, "Palin's Legal Problems."

Apology accepted.
Posted By: Kimmi08 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/24/08 02:11 PM
I got up this morning, glad to have come through the worst Hurricane to hit Texas in a very long time and ran into another Hurricane here on this forum. My, Octave, you've opened up some good dialogue here. Wish I could spark this kinda' stuff on my forum. (smile)

Anyway, we all should really be fired up about this election as should be. The country is really messed up right now. I mean messed up (will the responsible party please stand up!!!...be a man and the bigger person) and we need it fixed by the most qualified person. Too bad we'll have to pick the lesser of two evils but that's what man has demeaned himself into. An evil that in this country has made capitalism more important than caring for his own people.

Just because one is as passionate as "Octave" doesn't mean she doesn't know what she is talking about. This is the main reason our country is messed up because of stubborness to reason. If one feels like he has all the answers and then fails, at least fess up to it. The Republican party has agreers to this notion. They have messed up big time. Can't wait for my grandchildren to read this in social studies class. If only we could get an apology from our present president then at least he would have given us something productive and maybe just maybe start the healing in this country. Nothing is as effective when you've messed up as an authentic apology. Former Pres. Bill Clinton may have done wrong outside of his marriage BUT HE APOLOGIZED. You can forgive him or not, he did it.

All of us should be worried about who will run this country because as noted from the past political party (Bush's eight years and then his dad's years and Reagan's years) Octave, you and I have a lot to be scared about and should be shouting it out on every forum, please don't vote Republican - not this election or the next several ones. Let us give the country a chance to heal, then let the republican party to be fair but with a budget of what they can spend. Cause if anything we've seen per history, republicans love to spend the poor man's money and keep more and more for himself and his friends.

If you are one who would like to remain in denial and try and knock the wind out of "Octave", you're becoming winded yourself. As these days go by, the republican party soon will on that "road to nowhere". At least then, someone would have visited it and the monies used not all in vain. Until next time, I'd like to pass on something I saw this morning and after my own investigation, I see why republicans are so defensive. Its been well noted. Sounds like jealousy and a people not ready to give up the reign of power to someone that is at least willing to help his country and for that he (Senator Barack Obama), should at least be given credit for. And it's also important to note that God didn't just give smarts to the white race. There are other races that are very intelligent, so why not give someone else a chance regarding his color. I've worked with people who were not always qualified for their positions but in the long run, the tenacity, faithfulness, initiative and efficiency put into their jobs and responsibilities is what got everyone's attention and eventually everyone's kudo acknowledgement. You can't "get" experience without "experience" in doing something. Did any of you have experience of driving before you learned how to? Think about it and stop being in denial and so, so out there in space.

Enjoy this excerpt I've pass around a few of the forums this morning. May God bless us all:

*If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're 'exotic, different.'
but if you grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.

*If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.

but name your kids Willow, Trig, and Track; you're a maverick.

*Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.

but attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.

*If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.

but if your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council, 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, and 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.

*If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.

yet if you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.

*If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.

yet if, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, (though its not your fault), you're very responsible.

*If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America's.

but if your husband is nicknamed 'First Dude', with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.

OK, much clearer now.

Its not about race but the quality of the people. Let's be smart individuals and recognize and acknowledge and give people their proper credit. No matter what color.
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/25/08 11:37 PM
Thank you for your words, Kimmie. Well said.

Here's an update from Anne Kilkenny herself, published in the San Francisco Chronicle:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 03:10 AM
Kimmie, those are interesting points. I don't have a problem with some of them, but those are not the issues that most people have a problem with Barack. Consider these.

1.) Lived just down the street from, Co-Chaired a board with, and had a campaign launched by the unrepentent terrorist William Ayers. This is a guy who thought it would be groovy to blow up the Pentagon, Post Offices, and Police Stations to protest the Vietnam War. This is a guy, who on 9/11/01 had an interview published where he said his group did not do enough and that he did not regret his actions. This is a cold blooded murderer. MURDER

2.) Financed the slumlord Tony Rezko with taxpayer dollars to build "ghettos" in Chicago and then leave them to fall apart. Some people went without heat in the winter. Roaches. Rats. Rezko pocked the money that was supposed to be going to these neighborhoods. Tony Rezko bought the adjorning lot on the same day that Barack bought his house and then sold it to the Obamas for much less than it was worth. CORRUPTION

3.) Recieved the second highest amount of campaign contrabutions from Fanny May and Freddie Mac. This was during the course of only three years while the senator who recieved the highest amount, Chris Dodd, was given his money over the course of over a decade. CORRUPTION

4.) Has made numerous gaffes. 57 states of America. If we inflate our tires, we save as much oil as ALL that we would get from domestic drilling. Iran is a small country, not a threat. Pakistan is an enemy. The Russia/Georgia conflict should be handled by the UN even though Russia has the power of veto there.
ect. ect. (there are really too many to put in a single post) STUPIDITY

5.) Has made statements to Jewish Americans that Israel should be left as is. Then the next day, tells other Americans that Israel should be divided in half. LIES

6.) Attended a hate filled, racist, anti- American church for twenty years. Although it was clear what Reverand Wright Jr was shouting from his pulpit, Obama pleaded ignorance and said, "That's not the same man I knew." Obama professes in his books that Jeremiah Wright Jr was a mentor to him. IGNORANCE LIES RACISM

7.) Has never reached across the aisle for a compromise in any fasion. Has never voted in any way other than to the far left. Professes, however, that he will unify. Trust what he says not how he has lived his entire life and what he does. HYPOCRACY PANDERING

8.) This one is most important. IS being publicly endorsed by such terrorist organizations such as Hamass and Al Quada. Has recieved campaign contrabutions from Hamass.

IS PUBLICLY ENDORCED BY ENEMIES OF AMERICA

IS PUBLICLY ENDORCED BY ENEMIES OF AMERICA

I put that in there twice so that you would stop and consider what that means.

9.) The leader of Iran has openly, publicly announced that he will destroy Israel. He has openly, publicly announced that he is seeking nuclear weapons. Many of the weapons found on terrorist in Iraq can be traced back to Iran.

Barack has said that he would have no problem meeting and negotiating without any pre-conditions.

All in all, I don't care that he's black. I don't care that he's a man as opposed to a woman. I wouldn't care if he looked exactly like the man I see in the mirror every day. I do care about where he is planning to take my country

-whoisjohngalt
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 12:54 PM
The notion that Obama received campaign contributions from Hamas is beyond ludicrous. You're grabbing at straws, and it's painfully obvious that your anti-Obama arguments come straight from the Fox News propaganda machine.

Obama is the brightest, most talented candidate in this race, by far. We have to pick somebody to try and lead us out of this terrible mess. I say give him a chance.
Posted By: Elleise - Clairvoyance Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 01:35 PM
You know, in all honesty, we need to prepare ourselves, more, for what we are headed into. Obama is not as talented as he appears to be, nor is Mccain as brilliant. Right or wrong, Washington has another agenda for Obama. He was chosen for a reason, a plan. Mccain couldn't get us out of this either. It's a dellusion any one person can reverse what is in the making as this time. We just have to go through it.

Obama will continue ties w/radical terrorists. It will be in the fundings where the proof lies. I still feel he is elected if that is the real arguement. If you're waiting for him to waive a magic wand, when everything hits, you're going to wish you would have taken some of this research and better prepared yourself for matters in home.

_______________________________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance editor
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 01:57 PM
I have no illusions about Obama or anyone else leading us out of this mess anytime during the next four or eight years. I actually feel a bit sorry for whoever inherits the job, because that person, one year from now, will be vilified as having been ineffective. However, Obama is clearly the more talented of the two major candidates, and thus he is best equipped to mitigate the damage. That's why I'm voting for him.

Once again, your Fox News is showing. The notion that Obama has any ties to terrorists is patently absurd. His willingness to negotiate with Ahmadinejad is a position that is supported by none other than Henry Kissinger.
Posted By: Elleise - Clairvoyance Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 02:38 PM
A lot of people will, you're not alone or original in that matter. The dillusions are evident, however. Healines aren't false, just because either parties actions are caught on one news station or another.

Your post seem to lean towards perfection in this man, with just a few words saying you don't think he's almighty. Actions will always speak louder than words. In this man, you or any one of us. That is the dillusion we're all entitled to and a future we can pretty much bury our heads in the sand with!

_________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor
Posted By: bepart Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 03:04 PM
Originally Posted By: octave3
The notion that Obama received campaign contributions from Hamas is beyond ludicrous. You're grabbing at straws, and it's painfully obvious that your anti-Obama arguments come straight from the Fox News propaganda machine.


Ludicrous? Really? Then I guess you are calling Obama a LIAR because he listed a contribution of approximately $30k as being received from Hamas in his election commission filing.
Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 03:09 PM
Octave. Since I listed nine problems I have with Barack and you only have contentions with one, then I will assume that you agree that the others are valid. (If not, let me know and I can prove each and every one)

You do not believe Barack has recieved campaign contributions from Hamas. Okay....

BellaOnline ALERT: For anti-spam reasons, we restrict the number of URLs allowed in a given post. You have exceeded our maximum number of URLs.
Posted By: whoisjohngalt Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 03:16 PM
Once again, these are the Nine biggest problems I have with Barack. Barack...

1.) Lived just down the street from, Co-Chaired a board with, and had a campaign launched by the unrepentent terrorist William Ayers. This is a guy who thought it would be groovy to blow up the Pentagon, Post Offices, and Police Stations to protest the Vietnam War. This is a guy, who on 9/11/01 had an interview published where he said his group did not do enough and that he did not regret his actions. This is a cold blooded murderer. MURDER

2.) Financed the slumlord Tony Rezko with taxpayer dollars to build "ghettos" in Chicago and then leave them to fall apart. Some people went without heat in the winter. Roaches. Rats. Rezko pocked the money that was supposed to be going to these neighborhoods. Tony Rezko bought the adjorning lot on the same day that Barack bought his house and then sold it to the Obamas for much less than it was worth. CORRUPTION

3.) Recieved the second highest amount of campaign contrabutions from Fanny May and Freddie Mac. This was during the course of only three years while the senator who recieved the highest amount, Chris Dodd, was given his money over the course of over a decade. CORRUPTION

4.) Has made numerous gaffes. 57 states of America. If we inflate our tires, we save as much oil as ALL that we would get from domestic drilling. Iran is a small country, not a threat. Pakistan is an enemy. The Russia/Georgia conflict should be handled by the UN even though Russia has the power of veto there.
ect. ect. (there are really too many to put in a single post) STUPIDITY

5.) Has made statements to Jewish Americans that Israel should be left as is. Then the next day, tells other Americans that Israel should be divided in half. LIES

6.) Attended a hate filled, racist, anti- American church for twenty years. Although it was clear what Reverand Wright Jr was shouting from his pulpit, Obama pleaded ignorance and said, "That's not the same man I knew." Obama professes in his books that Jeremiah Wright Jr was a mentor to him. IGNORANCE LIES RACISM

7.) Has never reached across the aisle for a compromise in any fasion. Has never voted in any way other than to the far left. Professes, however, that he will unify. Trust what he says not how he has lived his entire life and what he does. HYPOCRACY PANDERING

8.) This one is most important. IS being publicly endorsed by such terrorist organizations such as Hamass and Al Quada. Has recieved campaign contrabutions from Hamass.

IS PUBLICLY ENDORCED BY ENEMIES OF AMERICA

IS PUBLICLY ENDORCED BY ENEMIES OF AMERICA

I put that in there twice so that you would stop and consider what that means.

9.) The leader of Iran has openly, publicly announced that he will destroy Israel. He has openly, publicly announced that he is seeking nuclear weapons. Many of the weapons found on terrorist in Iraq can be traced back to Iran.

Barack has said that he would have no problem meeting and negotiating without any pre-conditions

I can assure you, Octave, that each of these is a very real and valid point that can be factually backed up. I will proove any and all that you need, but I would hope that when you are satisfied that I have, you would take another look at your candidate.

-whoisjohngalt
Posted By: toddzgrrl02 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 05:37 PM
Usually when ppl don't have a legit argument, they resort to bringing race and religion into it... which I have seen done in this forum a couple of times now. Will be interesting to see how long it will be before they crop up again.

We all know Obama will win... I'd be pleasantly surprised if he doesn't. In a way I wish it was all over so we can start analyzing all his screw ups LOL I forsee lots of "I told you so's".

I don't feel sorry for whoever ends up with this mess. For one, if it is Obama, it is his own party that produced it. Secondly, if things get worse under him, perhaps it is because he has sooo many expensive plans for us. Combine them with the current economic status and you are just asking for a disaster.

If McCain wins, well, he hasn't really fully supported it, neither have the republicans in the house. The plan goes against conservative views. If things fail under him, I see it as being a result of being bullied into a bad decision in the first place.

But, those are just my opinions.
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 10:04 PM
Sorry, Galt, I pretty much disagree with everything that you say. Obama has no ties to Hamas - it's ridiculous to imply otherwise just because a couple of guys in Gaza happen to like him. If they made inappropriate contributions to Obama's campaign, then the money should be returned. Ms. Palin had to do the same this week.

I didn't come here and I don't have time to argue every point with you. My only real purpose in posting to these political forums was to generate discussion about a complete unknown - Sarah Palin. She could be a heartbeat away from a presidency that she is ill-equipped to assume. Even cerebral conservative commentators are questioning her abilities, and one even called on her today to withdraw:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: Kimmi08 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/26/08 10:14 PM
You're interesting Michelle. Quite interesting. Your words and what you say puzzles me (kinda' like Palin). I feel like I've gotten to know your mind. The tone in one's words can bring the defensive mechanism out of an angel.

Moving on, Galt, I read your position and I respect that. I'm looking more into those issues you mentioned so that I may have a legitimate reply. I welcome comments like yours, Octave, Beparts and even Kay's. I'll get back to you as I investigate them more thoroughly. I will say though, its not going to be easy for any one person who recieves this seat of office. Not the position its been left in by Bush.
Posted By: Kimmi08 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/27/08 12:25 AM
This is to Galt and all the opposers of Barack Obama:

"Oh say can you see", up above I see a fighter jet dropping bombs killing innocent men, women and children. It's not Barack. MURDER

I barely escaped jail time for Savings and Loan scandal. It's not Barack. CORRUPTION

I got out of prison and cheated immediately on the woman and children who waited years for my release. It's not Barack. DISHONEST, LIES, LOW MORALS

He picked a Vice President by patronizing women voters and who has the intelligence of a 13 year old school girl. I live next to Russia and know more about energy than anyone in the nation. (paraphrased) It's not Barack. STUPIDITY

For years I ignored the country's conscious by voting against and not supporting a federal holiday for one of the greatest Americans of this century. His message has helped liberate people all around the world. It's not Barack. RACIST, STUPIDITY

Wheww! My fingers are getting tired. I think you get my message. Ohhhh! My favorite part. I do love this election with all the "Razzle Dazzle" John "Insane" McCain gives us every day. "Razzle Dazzle" is the strategies and stunts this man pulls out of his hat like a high school football team does, plays i.e. statue of liberty, quarterback sneak, fake reverse option.

If he becomes president, accidently, you may wake up with him giving a press conference with a top hat and cape wearing a fake mustache. He may even start wearing a military uniform with his hand in his shirt yelling, "I fought in the WAR!"

Why doesn't he ever come up with original ideas? Everytime he comes up with an idea, Mr. Obama has already said it or something very similar. Just be honest for once (please). His performance during the bailout discussion at the White House was spectacular. He looked like a dear caught in headlights. What a wiener. Ooops, I mean winner. I really use to like McCain, when he stood for something. Now that I think about it, what did he stand for?

Let's see, how about Mrs. "Lyin" Palin. I have dealt with people who like to make themselves bigger than they really are. She takes the cake. Maybe if she just told the honest truth, people would not hold her shortcomings against her. She is in the words of "Andrew Sullivan", a staunch conservative, a patholigical liar. I'm sorry to use such strong language. I call it like I hear it. It's way too much to continue with her. Just watch her interview with Katie Couric. Priceless.

So, everyone, these are my issues and I've addressed them in specific terms. We can go back and forth all day but the TRUTH is I will surely follow the intelligence of someone graduating top of their class versus someone who barely graduated. Someone who takes the time to think out a problem as opposed to a "maverick" who rolls the dice without thought, based on a gut feeling. DANGEROUS

Just because you've been tortured and fought in a war gives no grounds for being the president. He's already received his rewards.

Remember, there are over 350 million lives at stake. Be true to yourself ("to thine ownself be true"), who should you follow? You may not like or respect Obama but watch the debate tonight and think deeply about this decision.

Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/27/08 08:58 PM
BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: Elleise - Clairvoyance Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/28/08 12:10 AM
As embarassing as this is, here it is worts and all, I actually thought the Clintons were republican. My husband had to start setting me straight and I follow now, when I started having strong feelings on Barrack. He said, "People aren't me, you're going to need facts, not just feelings if you want to have people follow what you're saying." He's right of course. It took several weeks of debates and questions as to what depicted a democrat and republican. Both had many things in common and certain things that set them apart.

Back in May, I felt Obama would win. I posted it somewhere in Clairvoyance forum. The feeling is similar to how a tide or ocean wave comes crashing. However, personally, I really feel both parties are to blame, as well as what the majority feels it wants to display as a pro-active want, for how things are. Everything has a reaction, kind of thing.

Politicians, in my opinion, live "out there". They couldn't, continuously, withstand the truth or live it for that matter, but will empathize or say they do to gain the trust and willingness of the people. I'm also of the belief that as human beings and not robots, we don't need a group party to tell us how to think or what we feel, but obviously, the masses do.

In my opinion, corruption exists and each of us becomes grazed with it every now and then as long as we're not actively participating on a daily basis. When things are great we simply turn the other cheek or don't really want to know but for our passions.

When something in particular happens in a presidency (high or low - war, economic, etc.), in reality it seems it can be traced back to the person before and the person before that, and the person before that, etc. except for maybe pardons. There's always a hidden (probably votes) agenda it seems. Sometimes there's an occasionally thought out process and actually works for the many.

When Obama wins, here's what's going to happen next. A lot of people will lose their minds thinking one step for mankind kind of thing, what a wonderful independant original thinker and the awestuck will slowly, not too far after (I'll give it 6 - 18 months of hoopla and incentive tax rebates and/or promises) feel the smiles fade from their face as the pipe dream fails to manifest but for the action itself of being elected. In fact it seems they almost get together and give each other support and swap justifications as to what he's doing and why it's failing - they'll blame it on the president before as well as Obama himself. Again, the words, "We all have to pull together during this time." They're driving me nuts (arg!) It's one of those breaking news things on tv/speach.

Let the celebration be for a time. They will need it to fall back on. I am of no party and jumping ahead working on what happens after. It's really not all doom and gloom but it strongly feels, it will absolultely require a lot of mental and independant thinking on the individual themself if they want ride the wave, more than ever before, now and into this next decade. Think of it Like a cruise/ship. Before you wouldn't normally want to know THAT much about it. This next age we do. Black, white, indian, jewish, spanish, mexican, asian, there will be no holy grail skin color. It will be a celebration for the first black president though. In that aspect, all is not lost.

A friend of mine picked a note worthy leader to do a business report on and was taken aside and criticized after her delivery, when she chose Hitler. When she told me this, I was like, "Out of all the movement makers out there you chose him?" She said, and rightfully so, "what Hitler did, he really did well (and she took a deep breath). I'm really proud of the report. Every point is valid. He believed his view of the world and created it - made it happen. If all people thought that way, ignorant masses or not, everyone would be a success."

It matters little, to me anyway, if Obama was repub., dem. or independant. I'm not the norm, though. I'm not suggesting the same, by any means happens - but it's that same type of hypnotic sense and ignorant masses that does feel similar.

There are currently those that kind of shake their heads trying to snap themselves back to a reality of sorts, like they can't believe what they are seein. they are the ones seeing past the illusion. When all else fails, they will be the ones we can turn to,(any one of us) that will aid as to what it is to simply be human and survive.

___________________________________________________

Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/28/08 02:19 PM
I'm not sure which is more frightening: Tina Fey as Sarah Palin, or Sarah Palin as Sarah Palin:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 09/29/08 01:45 PM
All the king's horses and all the king's men:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/01/08 03:16 AM

Couldn't put Sarah together again:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/06/08 01:42 PM
Interesting LA Times article on Kilkenny:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/10/08 02:17 PM
A Russian perspective on Palin:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/14/08 12:53 PM
Might as well keep this as the standard Palin thread - Since Ms. Kilkenny's analysis of Palin has proven to be alarmingly prescient. Here's an editorial in today's Anchorage Daily News:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/16/08 06:17 PM
What the Europeans are saying about Palin these days:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/21/08 02:03 AM
�(Palin is) a very distinguished woman, and she�s to be admired, but at the same time, now that we have had a chance to watch her for some seven weeks, I don�t believe she�s ready to be president of the United States, which is the job of the vice president�

- General Colin Powell
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/23/08 01:49 AM
"Palin may be admirable for many qualities, but deep down at her core she is a vacuous non-entity without a wit of the intelligence and common sense that is required in a commander-in-chief. That McCain would have the temerity to insult the vast majority of the American public with her selection and try to pass it off as anything other then a hail Mary pass is indicative of his state of mind - which, given his performance over the last 60 days, is one of an old codger who is off his meds."

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/25/08 01:44 AM
Meanwhile...

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/26/08 02:35 PM
The Anchorage Daily News just endorsed Obama:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/30/08 06:01 PM
Intersting Politico article today:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 10/31/08 01:37 PM
New York Times/CBS News poll says that 59% of voters believe that Palin is not qualified to be vice-president:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
Posted By: octave3 Re: The Kilkenny email - 11/01/08 01:44 PM
Add another prominent Republican to the Palin-ain't-ready mix:

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
© BellaOnline Forums