Here is my view on how and why I chose dependability as the key trait in my partner relationship.
We humans tend to invest enormous amounts of energy on choosing our partner in life, and for good reason. In my ideal relationship, my partner is the one person who puts me before all else. I put him before all else (except my son). We are the one person who is there for each other no matter what.
I talked in another thread about having a very close friendship. In that relationship we are "nearly partners". There is always going to be an exception. In a disaster I would put Bob before my best friend. My best friend would put her mother before me. That is fine. We know that.
This partner nature of "most important connection" was recently portrayed on screen for me.
The final episode of In Plain Sight was an incredibly powerful one to me. Mary and Marshall had been partners for many years. They had always been there for each other, no matter what. Marshall was now getting married to another woman.
He turned to Mary and said in essence "I love you. I would do anything for you. I need to know, now, that you are going to be OK. I want to now be that be-there person for my wife. But if you call for help, I will run to you, and abandon my wife. I cannot be that kind of husband."
Mary then says, in essence, "You will be a good husband. I will find other support, and I will be OK. Trust in me to be OK. Dedicate yourself now to your wife."
To me it epitomized this very type of relationship, and I found it quite powerful. They were speaking to the heart of how important that emergency-be-there relationship was, and how it could really only exist at a specific one-on-one level. Marshall could not be equally there for two separate people. He would still love Mary - and he needed a sense that she would have other support to turn to. He could not be that person for her, because he now had another responsibility.
When I chose the St. Louis guy as a partner, I was looking at traits like "highly intelligent" and "fun to be with". I wasn't looking at "dependable". I got what I looked for.
When I came back to Massachusetts I absolutely looked for "dependable". Yes I also looked for "highly intelligent" but I turned down many other guys based on judging their dependability level.
When I had to drive out to St. Louis to pick up my cat, Bob asked no questions. He took the day off from work, oil changed his truck, and drove me out there. When my eardrums both ruptured in my scuba test, he drove home from his playoff game to be by my side. When his mother said "you cannot have Lisa sleep in your room when you visit" he said to her "we will stay in a hotel then, because being with Lisa is more important to me."
He repeatedly demonstrated with actions that I was the most important thing in his life and that I would maintain that focus. It wasn't a "courting act". It was an indication that other ties in his life would take second place to the attention he felt due his partner in life. I saw that, I valued it, and I chose him because of it.
We've now been together for sixteen years, and every day I treasure that aspect of our relationship.
Did I give up other traits in order to get "dependability"? We all make compromises. I am very content with my choice. There have been so many times over the years that depending on him was critical, and that he was there for me.
I don't see myself having that. Unless I move back home and make my mother the most important person in my life. That's what dan did, in any case.
Dear Jilly -
I think a first question would be if you wanted that. We all have different things we want most in life.
Maybe the most important thing for one person is to have a partner who is a delightful singer, because they want to play guitar all night long and have a singer there to sing along. They don't care about dependable. They are fine taking care of themselves and not relying on anyone else. If they get stuck in the rain they'll just call a cab. If they get really sad they'll call their best friend. They don't need those things in their partner. What they really want in a partner is a singing partner. Just as an example.
So I would (hopefully) never assume what I personally am drawn to is what every person is drawn to. I'm sure others are drawn to other things.
If you thought long term about what an ideal mate would provide to you, what things spring to mind? Don't worry if it's possible or reasonable or anything else. Just think about an ideal fantasy story.
If it helps, maybe think about how you'd feel if he *didn't* do something. What if he didn't want to go hiking? What if he hated talking? What if he didn't like SciFi? What if he didn't show up when you needed help? What "lacks" would bother you the most? What areas would you shrug off, because you could go elsewhere to handle that need?
Lisa, I looked for dependability and integrity. Sense of humor was right up there, too! Thirty-five years later, we are still happily together.
Lisa, I looked for dependability and integrity. Sense of humor was right up there, too! Thirty-five years later, we are still happily together.
Connie -
It's great that you found someone with a sense of humor! That sounds like a delightful partner to have.
In my case Bob isn't really a sense-of-humor guy, so I had to find that trait in friends
.
It's great to watch a movie with Bob. He laughs in all of the right places.
Dear Connie -
You are a lucky duck!
Sad to say, but I did not make a conscious decision when choosing my mate. There was a clear and undeniable "cosmic" connection. Not a romantic, head over heels infatuation. But a compelling sense of "There is something about this man that I cannot resist, and I always want to be with him."
He was funny, witty, intelligent. An interesting conversationalist. Curious and open-minded. Knowledgeable about so many different topics. Very grounded. Conventional.
I'm known to be flighty so I needed his sense of stability. I am a butterfly, meandering about, while he is a bee, busily buzzing in straightforward fashion. I have to remind him that even though the butterfly and the bee have very different approaches to life, both pollinate the earth.
We've had our challenges, but we've also had a grand life adventure together. And we love and adore each other more than ever.
If I let my head get in the way, I might have decided we had too many differences and walked away. Because I really wanted a man who had a strong faith and belief in God. He doesn't but I ended up learning to see spirituality in a new and different way. Less dogmatically. So sometimes, our cosmic partner brings us great growth, if not smooth going.
Dear Lori -
In my psychology classes they felt that all decisions we make are both conscious and subconscious. That is, if he had been a drooling ax-murderer you probably would have overridden your feeling of connection
. But there was nothing there to trigger your conscious fears. So you were able to go with the many subconscious draws you felt. That is fine!
It was fascinating to learn how much of our draw comes down to hormones. When a woman is fertile, she tends to be drawn to 'power' in a man. When she is not fertile, she tends to be drawn to 'gentle' in a man. Men also pick up on this. When they tracked tips given to strippers, the tips varied very directly based on the woman's sexual cycle. The men could pick up on the hormones - without knowing it - and tipped far more when she was fertile.
Men in studies thought women's photos in red frames were sexier. They swore it was the woman. They had no idea they were being affected by the color red.
Experiments show women are drawn to men who are genetically different from them, which of course is good for our offspring. We can smell those differences in their scent. So we absolutely are drawn to certain men based on their smell.
That is great that you found a man so well suited to you!
Dependability is definitely important to me as well. I also value respect, honesty, communication, affection, sense of humor, and physical chemistry. It is great if we share some interests, but it is nice to have our own hobbies and friends as well. Time apart is just as important as time together.
Maybe I am a little sensitive to the dependability issue because I don't see myself as very dependable. I try hard, but with my mental health issues, it ends up being a huge challenge, and frankly, not a priority.
I'd like to think I am still worthwhile to be around.
Debbie -
Those are all good traits to look for! I imagine for example if someone was dependable but had zero affection at all, that it might be rough. It would be like having a butler, not a partner
.
I agree completely that a couple needs to be standalone people too
.
Jilly -
We all have different strengths, and that is quite fine! For example, several people have mentioned a sense of humor. I think I might be low on the sense of humor scale
. And that is OK! I have other things I am good at. We all are unique people and we all have different challenges and that is wonderful.
And with that all being said, think of all the times you have been there for someone who really needed you. When it was important, you turned your life upside down to be there for a person. That is definitely dependability.
I like your sense of humor, Lisa! But I think I appreciate your goofiness because my humor is rather goofy too.
I have a lot of integrity, but that's not really dependability. I will absolutely be there for someone when the chips are down. But for the little, small, everyday reliability functions, that person isn't me.
I have to learn to say no more clearly, or be more specifically, verbally tentative about plans, because I never know that day if it will be a good day for me, or a stay in bed day. Some days I can't do people things; I'd rather hide. No matter what my good intentions were when I agreed to something. I've let a lot of people down. Never on the important things, but on many small occasions.
I am never reliable for social or employment functions. But I WILL do what's needed for another, when it really matters.
Hi Jilly,
I'm glad you mentioned the dependability thing -- as you can see a lot of womenfolk look for that -- man or woman the lack of dependability has to be dealt with -- you acknowledged it, so it is ok now for me to acknowledge it here too.
Thank You,
Burt B.
P.S. I haven't been around for a while -- reworking the computer system.
You are welcome, Burt. I figure if we can't talk here, where can we talk?
To Burt,
Ah Krishnamurti
loong
To Jilly,
If you were not so far away, I would have liked to visit for a while,doing nothing ,exchanging ideas.I don't think my car can take me where you are.
Too bad
loong
To Lisa and all,
Back on the subject.In choosing a partner, to me total honesty
would be the main part.I have been the base of my life for 36 years.Fidelity,she also living a spiritual path,not necessarely
buddhism ,but spiritually inspired.Honor and trust.
Now you see why I am alone.
With respect
loong
Dear Jilly and Burt -
We are all different people, and often we look for someone who balances ourselves in whatever way. So someone who is always logical and dependable like clockwork might crave a person who is different - someone who is free spirited, who comes and goes as the mood strikes and who lives in the moment. To that clockwork person, that free spiritedness could be quite ideal!
So for every person, I believe strongly there is a match that works out just right
.
Dear Loongdragon -
It's a bit harsh to claim that no woman in the world can be honest and faithful
.
I think it's safe to say that many, many women are both honest and faithful. Many are faithfully married.
For whatever reason you haven't found such a woman who is still single and who clicks with you yet. Do you go out actively and mingle in ways in which they can meet you?
Lisa, I was not under the impression Loong said that at all. I think he is saying he has high standards and hasn't met her yet.
Dear Jilly -
I agree, and I'm saying that being honest and faithful aren't high standards at all! Is it a high standard to say "my spouse shouldn't cheat on me"?
Isn't that a pretty basic standard for most of us?
Lisa
But he also mentioned other things. If he hasn't found binders of women with that combination yet, I'm not going to tell him he has.
Dear Lisa,
I never but never wrote :It's a bit harsh to claim that no woman in the world can be honest and faithful.
You realy do not know me.I protect women ,respect them.May whoever decides when you die,come right now and come and get me.
if I wrote that.
What women tell me is that I have a very high feminine side.
My whole life is based on honesty and fidelity,asking a partner to share these 2 virtues,should not stir,any accusations.
Someone .in my condition is allowed to marry a woman that lives a spiritual life.
I am not asking anyone anything ,this is what I would like to meet.If I never meet someone like this ,no problem ,in the last 42 years I have lived alone 34.
With respect
loongdragon
To Jilly,
Thank you,friend
xoxo
loong
To Lisa ,
Last statistic in France 45 % of women had affairs!
Your's
loongdragon
Dear LoongDragon:
You said:
"In choosing a partner, to me total honesty would be the main part.I have been the base of my life for 36 years.Fidelity,she also living a spiritual path,not necessarely buddhism ,but spiritually inspired.Honor and trust. Now you see why I am alone." [sic]
You stated that you're looking for honesty, fidelity, and spirituality. And then you say "now you see why I am alone".
This states fairly clearly that you feel that finding a woman who is honest, loyal, and spiritual is nearly impossible.
Why is that?
Your post about France is untrue. "In a 2004 [French] national survey, just 3.8 per cent of married men and 2 per cent of women said they had had more than one sex partner in the past year (the best approximation of infidelity) -- fewer than in similar surveys in the U.S. and the U.K."
Infidelity ReportI imagine it's even lower where you live. So if 98% of women near you are loyal, is it honesty and spirituality you are having problems finding?
According to the US census, by the time someone hits age 85 there are literally 2 times as many women than men. So there are hundreds of thousands of women who are completely without a partner and have no hope at all of ever having one. I work at senior centers. I meet numerous women every day who are smart, compassionate, loyal, sincere, spiritual, and wonderful. All of them would desperately love to have a male partner but there simply aren't "enough men to go around". There are large numbers of women languishing, wishing they had a man in their life. They are wonderful women who simply, statistically speaking, could never partner up.
So to have you say "now you see why I am alone" when *all* you are looking for are honesty, fidelity, and spirituality, baffles me. It makes no sense at all to me based on my real life experience I encounter every day. Not only are there SOME women out there who meet those criteria - but there are *thousands* of women who are honest, loyal, and spiritual, and who are languishing without any hope for a man in their life.
Dear Lisa
You wrote:You stated that you're looking for honesty, fidelity, and spirituality. And then you say "now you see why I am alone".
This states fairly clearly that you feel that finding a woman who is honest, loyal, and spiritual is nearly impossible.
Why is that?
My answer is very simple ,there might be millions of woman having these qualities and ,I am sure of that.Finding one that I would love ,because if love is absent in a relation ,might as well be no relation.
Dear LoongDragon -
Exactly.
That is exactly what I was talking about earlier.
It's apparently *not* just those traits you seek. It's those traits *plus* something else.
Let's say you found a woman with those traits. She was honest, loyal, and spiritual. How would you then go about deciding if you could or could not love her? What other traits would be involved? You yourself are saying that a woman with those three traits wouldn't necessarily be worthy of love.
Our heart only pumps blood. It doesn't think. So it is your brain that is involved in these thought processes. Your brain sees something in that person and is drawn to it. What are you drawn to, that you have to have in addition to honesty, loyalty, and spirituality? Or are you saying that there are other traits that would make you stand apart?
Lisa, why are you harassing Loong?
To Jilly,
Please do not go there
xoxo
loong
I withdraw the question but my uncomfortable feeling remains.
To lisa,
I had just written a beautiful post and some thing came in my E-mail and made the post disapear.So I will start over.
When you met your partner 16 years ago there had to be a little something.Well same for me.That little extra ,you might find this funny ,I call it :making my toes curl.
Humbly,I am still a good looking man ,and often solicitated
by woman of all ages.Remember,I used to be a ladie's man.
My last relationship,she was 15 years younger than I was.For the first 6 months we lived a blisful life,then she was hit by a terrible disorder of the Thyroid gland,jealousy,everthing was my fault,pure hell.We were in business together,she offered to buy my shares.So I sold the business to her.She gave me part of the money.Then one day she phones and tell me she is going bankrupt,including all the money she owed me.She had $50,000
stashed away,I learned later.
I was not mad at her,I had compassion for her.Within 3 months she had lost everything.
My heart still hopes.
With respect
loongdragon
Dear LoongDragon -
Now we delve into the interesting aspect of choosing a mate.
It is clearly not "extra" if it is critical to your mate selection process. That is fine. It is wise for us to know what is important in choosing a mate. Only by knowing what we aim for can we reach our goal. Only once we are fully aware about what appeals to us in a partner can we then find that partner.
You enjoyed a partner who was 16 years younger, you are fond of your role as a "lady's man", and these are important things to you. That is fine! That is normal! That is part of your criteria. That certainly narrows down the available pool of partners.
I don't find it "funny" - I find it natural and normal. Numerous studies show that some men and women are drawn to specific physical traits in a partner, and that selection can also depend on fertility cycles. Colors and aromas can have impacts on our selection that we don't consciously realize.
In terms of my current partner, he was 300 pounds. He has been morbidly obese for nearly all of his adult life. He is a few years older than me. I have dated over 50 men in life, and they are all shapes and sizes and colors and ages. So in my case, it is not about youth or physical shape or race or creed. My personal selection criteria is more about the mental attributes. Those mental attributes are fairly constant across the men I have dated. I have dated old men, heavy men, men with physical challenges. That part didn't matter to me. I focus primarily on mental qualities.
That's the beauty of statistics. The more you document and evaluate, the more you can see the patterns of what works long term. You can see what specific criteria you tend to be drawn to, and account for that. Then you map out how to find those same criteria in your area, going forward.
It's only by knowing our priorities, and acknowledging them, that we can then ensure we are in situations that give us the best chance of success.
To Jilly,
Dearest friend,Do not hurt yourself for me.It is between Lisa and I.
You should put back your picture,you were so cute.You looked like a Navaho Indian.Becoming a skeleton will come soon enough.
Your friend
loong
I am very sad tonite. I have a huge stressor starting midnite tonite that deals with sexual harassment. I am freaking out and i think i should call the Crisis Hotline.
Dear Jilly,
excuse me to not knowing how to help you,not understanding what you post means!
Your friend
loong
call the crisis center,if you beleive they can help you.
I've been doing so well recently but with someone on his way up from the airport right now I am scared and uncomfortable and can't stop crying.
Thank you for being a support to me. Things have been hard.
To Jilly,
Is there any way for you not to have that encounter?Is he a live in boyfriend,a friend.If you are afraid of getting hurt physically or mentally,run away or call the cops.
This is all I can think of with half answers,no details.
Again if you feel in any danger ,get out of ther,where ever that may be.
Your friend
loong
Dear Lisa,
I knew of the woman mistreatment however,not that much.
loongdragon
Okay, I called the Crisis Line and they gave me some good advice. I am still a crying wreck. But they suggested some backup safety tips and recommended I try to do something soothing tonite so i can stop being a sad little ball. I make a lot of mistakes and upset people I don't intend to and work myself up into a knot...but the main thing is this worry about my visitor and his expectations of me. I have been VERY clear about not wanting sex....but he keeps pushing my boundaries and I feel like vomiting.
Dear Jilly,
No one is forced to do ,anything.Like I wrote,if ever he wants to force himself on you.call the police.
With loving kindness,
loong
Dear Jilly -
I wrote you privately too, so whatever way you want to handle this, privately or publicly, we are here to help.
You should *never* need to be uncomfortable in your own home. If this man is upsetting you, tell him to stay elsewhere, and only visit him in that other location. He is an adult. He can handle reality. If he in any way tries to pressure you, then walk away. There is no reason to have him anywhere near your home.
No matter what was said up until now, all of us have the right to change our mind and to do what feels comfortable to us in our own homes. Tell him you are no longer comfortable having him in your home, you will meet him in the hotel lobby, and that is it.
If he resists or pressures you in any way, then leave. He is clearly not ready for a relationship with you.
Send him an email telling him that, if it's easier on you. That way you lay out the new rules.
Every day for the last month i have been dreading this visit. THis is a very old friend from childhood. As we are both ending our marriages right now we thought maybe he should visit and see if we are compatible. He bought a plane ticket and nearly every day has been asking for pictures of me for his phone, trying to sext with me, telling me all the things he wants to do to me....even though I have begged him to stop, told him i am not comfortable with this, and that there will be no sex.
He is doggedly persistent and is making me feel like I am not hip since I refuse to sext or flirt. He says, "calm down, baby, it's just talk"...
I've told him he needs to find another woman and that I just want to keep being friends, but then he goes on and on about things that are inappropriate and uncomfortable for me.
ok, he is still driving up here. I told him i am not going to see him tonite. I locked my door and shut the blinds and hope he won't come by. Hopefully I will be better able to handle this tomorrow. I somehow lost the meds i just picked up, and without them, things are going to be very messy.
Dear Jilly -
He has his way of looking at things, and that is OK. At the same time it of course does not mean it has to be your way of looking at things!
MANY people do not like to sext or flirt. This is quite normal for large swaths of the population. Just because he likes to do something does not mean that you or any other person he meets should like to do it too.
You have made clear what you do not want. He has made clear that he doesn't care at all. That he is going to keep inflicting his behavior on you and pressure you. That is not healthy. He is not acting in the manner of a friend.
Again, whatever you might or might not have agreed to in the past, it is FINE for you to change your mind and to state new rules. That is completely your right in your home.
Tell him to get a hotel room. He is an adult, he can handle change. If your love is not worth the price of a hotel room to him, then it was not meant to be. Tell him you will meet in the lobby. If he is not willing to handle this in a way that you are comfortable with, then it was not meant to be.
He needs to earn your respect. He does that through his own actions. If he cares about you, then he should be willing to go at the speed you're comfortable with.
His buying of the ticket does not mean he's bought full access to you. It was *his* choice to buy that ticket, and now it's his choice what hotel to stay in.
Dear Jilly -
Tell him you're exhausted and that you need to go to sleep. Tell him you will be able to talk with him tomorrow. Tell him there's no way you can be awake tonight or talk with him. Tell him to email you the name of his motel. Make it simple, and clear, and final.
These are all good points. And I am exhausted from worry, stress and prolonged crying. I am not handling anything well tonite, although I mean well. I feel like I have been ticking away the days of this impending visit like it is some type of doom. He keeps telling me to shave my privates and send photos of me with no clothes on. This isn't the friend I remember.
Dear Jilly -
Whatever happened in the past, today is a fresh start. Today is a new chance to move this in a direction that makes you content.
People definitely do change over time. You are going through the discovery process with him and it's better to know this "new him" now vs later. So it's good that you are evaluating him now and deciding what to do.
So, for now, for tonight, direct him to a hotel. Get a good night's sleep. Find your medicine.
In the morning, let him know you will meet him at the hotel lobby. If he tries to pressure you into something, say no. You are your own person and no matter what he wants or other people do you are you. You deserve to be the way you want to be. If he wants a woman who loves sexting, I'm sure they are out there. He should go sext with one of them. In the meantime, you deserve to have a day that brings you joy.
Give him 3-4 options of what to do in the day that *you* want to do and see which he chooses. He will not have the option of something that makes you uncomfortable. This is your home he's visiting. In your home, you set the rules.
He either chooses from one of those things, or he can go off and explore the area on his own. You have no obligation to change yourself for him. Either he takes you as you are, or he goes somewhere else.
Thank you, Lisa, this is excellent advice. I've already told him he won't be coming here and he is okay with that. He is probably tired from traveling from the east coast anyway.
We will do something outdoors of my choosing tomorrow and I really hope I will be strong, and not a meek little mouse who wants to please so much she allows things she isn't comfortable with.
He is here through friday.
Dear Jilly -
This is *awesome* news. You are doing very well. You set a boundary and he responded without any problem, and tonight is all set. That is a great starting point!
So tomorrow, start fresh. Don't worry about the later days. Just focus on Monday. On Monday, you choose something that you are quite happy about. He is along for YOUR ride. He is a visitor into YOUR world. So show him your world and how you like to do things.
If he starts to encroach in any way, simply say "this is my world, I am showing you how I am." That's the point of the visit, I would think. For him to see how you are. So you owe it to him and to you to show him that authentically!
Be your authentic self. Show him your authentic self. Your task isn't to please him. It's to be yourself so he can learn about you.
Ok, I just woke up. Need to find my meds, find something pretty to wear, and get over to Cottonwood. I am scared, but hoping my friend will still be my friend after all that pushy sex stuff over the phone.
I'm not sure this is a good way to find a partner, but he has always been there for me, as a friend, my whole life. We will see. I will bring some ativan just in case.
Dear Jilly -
Focus just on today, on doing an activity *you* want to do, and on showing him your authentic self. Whatever he wants or doesn't want, your task is to demonstrate to him as honestly as you can who you are.
If it helps, think of him as a lost, confused soul who has just gone through something traumatic and he's not coping well with it. He's full of testosterone. Maybe he hadn't had sex in a long while and he's craving it desperately, so his mind isn't working properly. He's like a chocoholic who hasn't had chocolate in years and who is now in a fantastic chocolate shop. His brain just isn't working properly quite yet. So you can be calm, and gentle, and firm, and let him know you're not a piece of chocolate
.
Jilly, please call, text or email me. I have been trying to get a hold of you.
Editors, please visit the editors' forum for an update about Jilly.
I enjoyed your post. I personally feel that a partner would not need to put me above all else, a partnership is just that a mutual relationship. There are so many people in our lives that putting just one individual on top may not be realistic. Partnership is not only love but respect. I find that a unit that respects one another goes much farther than mere love alone.
EDIT: (new posters aren't allowed to use promotional URLs)
SOB -
I imagine like much in life that it's a balancing act. If my boyfriend called me every day when I was out saying "come back home! I am lonely!" that it would wear on me. If I couldn't go out to see friends or family because he wanted me near him at all times, that would wear on me too.
On the other hand, if every time I wanted to do something he'd rather be with his friends playing cards and smoking cigars, I think that would wear on me as well.