So my SIL had her baby last night. Perfect A, of course, had it in two hours with no pain. She gleefully told me, "It really wasn't that bad!" Anyway, I told DH what she said (the doctor suggested breaking her water to "speed things up" - what, 2 hours isn't fast enough?

Anyway, I was telling this to DH and suddenly panicked while thinking of the birthing process and said, "oh god, I don't ever want to have a baby." He said soothingly, "you don't really mean that."

I said, "mean what?"

He said, "you seriously don't ever want to have a baby?"

I said, "are you joking? Where have you been the last couple years?"

He just rolled his eyes and walked away.

If I didn't love him so damn much I'd be very tempted to pack a bag and not come home from work this afternoon. Seriously, what is wrong with him?

You are a scream! Your subject line is a riot...

OMG, the baby is finally here, huh? How annoying! I'm a little surprised by your husband's comment, but then again I'm not. It's weird, but sometimes no matter how many times you tell someone something, they just don't get it or hear it for what it is. I don't know why.

People that have known me for years couldn't wait to ask me when I was engaged, b/c they thought, oh, she's just like us now, now she will conform b/c she's getting married. NO, I don't think so. It is insulting though, because it's like people assume we all have the same boring ending to our story. Maybe your husband thinks you are being spunky, but ultimately you might change your mind. He's probably just feeling mushy now b/c his sister just had a baby.

Don't get me wrong, I would be annoyed, too. I'm just trying to explain why I think he might be saying that. You don't think he really wants one, do you?

Maybe you need to let him take care of your sister's (right?) three year old and baby next time she needs a sitter? Maybe that will help him understand the reality of having kids!

Cindy

I'd just let it go.

Your womb, your decision... he can want you to change your mind all he wants and when it dawns on him that 'yes', you do really mean that'... he'll either accept it or leave you (and I don't mean that in a nasty way)

Either way, unlike if the roles were reversed, it's not like he can 'oops' you...

... unless you don't know the difference between the pill and breath mints? ;-)

Too funny; I like Cindy's idea: have him babysit for a while and see if he still rolls his eyes

Has he ever talked about having kids???

It just seems like people don't really listen when you talk about something as seriously life-altering as having kids, sometimes, doesn't it?

If it makes you feel any better, Ingilbert, I feel that I might get a reaction out of my DH like that at some point, though I've been pretty clear over the last year that I don't think I ever want to have a kid. It just doesn't seem to fully sink in at this point with my DH, but hopefully in the future, it will.

He has no clue what having a child entails. I really want him to babysit my nephews, but there hasn't been an opportunity that we can take advantage of yet.

He says he wants kids, but he seems to think that nothing will change, that we'll have the same routine, we'll watch the same amount of TV/movies, we'll have the same amount of money. He just doesn't get it.

The Pill comes in a little bag in heart-shape with little sayings on them, right?

My hubands's first wife was definitely a CF-er. They divoreced for other reasons, (like they got married too young) and he wants children. So the obvious question... why did you even marry her?

He said he assumed she would change her mind.

He's not the best communicator. (until he met me, and he's still a work in progress in that dept.)

I would be worried if I were you.

I don't care if anyone else bingoes me - but I certainly wouldn't stand for it if my fiance did it! If he ever rolled his eyes at something I said, and then walked away... we'd be getting into a serious fight.

It sounds like you need to have a really long discussion with your husband. If he's going to want a baby you're both in the wrong place.

I have to agree with decided. Although having said that, the presence of a newborn creates havoc in all sorts of ways, so this is not a good time to get into it, with him or anyone else in the family.

But seriously, why is he not hearing you on this? Does he simply assume that you'll change your mind when the time is right? Or is he filtering out what he doesn't want to deal with "right now"?

Thinking back on my breakup, the signs were all there if I had been looking for them - I also made the mistake of assuming, thinking that as my position was crystal clear, and his was unstated, that his was therefore flexible. Turns out that wasn't the case, and it was a very stupid mistake to make.

He may be thinking that this is not something worth losing sleep over "today". But the time may come when this might be an issue for you. I really hope I'm wrong, but hearing stuff like this always makes me uneasy. People who want kids don't have to have a reason other than "they want" - and if they want bad enough, they'll go after it, and all the logic in the world won't stop them.

Ugh. As my friend says - kids screw up everything, you don't even have to have them.

I agree with Decided - I would also, be worried...
My husband knew exactly how I felt before we got together - he was told very clearly that if he definitely wanted children - we had no future. He was totally indifferent - had never been around kids and was more than happy to keep it that way. He did change...to adamantly CF in his late 30s...
People can change...you can't do much about that - particularly, if you get together when you're very young.
However, if my husband had changed and suddenly wanted kids AND, my feelings hadn't changed...then he knew the deal.
It doesn't sound like your husband is listening to you or is not taking you seriously....
Some people really do assume that all women will eventually want to have a child...some change, others don't...
The problem when you're "not on the same page" is the mounting pressure and/or guilt you might feel...some women start to feel they're "denying" their husband a child.
I know at times over the years, I've needed the full support of my husband on this issue - if he had been joining the chorus, it would have been very unsettling - like having an spy/enemy in camp - talk about isolation!
This sort of problem eventually IMO, bubbles to the surface - it can be buried or ignored for years...but eventually, it will become the biggest issue in your life - perhaps, when you're mid to late 30s or, when all your friends have kids...
I wish I could say, "Don't worry Ingilbert - it'll all go away"...but I can't...
One of my friends (in this position - although, her husband initially didn't want children - he changed at about 36) went through this for about 8 years - they decided to stay together and see if she eventually, felt differently - they deferred "crunch time"...in that case, my friend had a child at 38 however, I can't help but think the tacit pressure of years of "do I feel differently yet" factored into her decision making process. It must have been a huge relief in some ways to finally "give in"...
Your husband might be right - HIS life might not change all that much - one of my colleagues has 3 kids - he still travels the world, eats in the nicest restaurants, plays golf every week...he would agree that his life hasn't changed all that much - BUT, ask his wife, I'm sure she has a different answer. In most cases, the woman's life will change the most - from the moment of conception...
Ingilbert, IMO it HAS to be something you want...
I'm the sort of person who doesn't enjoy living "under a cloud"...I'd be having a very frank discussion with your DH - I'd bring forward "crunch time"...then you both know where you stand, how firmly you both feel about the issue. If he says that he definitely wants kids one day, then you have some thinking to do...
You're both young (mid 20s?) so you might feel differently in 10 years but then again, you might not...Your husband needs to understand that fact...and respect your feelings...not roll his eyes and walk away, until he gets the "right" answer.
I apologize if this sounds negative or harsh...
I fly off on my holiday this afternoon - having read your post, I wanted to respond before departing.

i agree with the last few posters. it sounds like a serious talk is definitely in order sometime in the not so distant future. it might be difficult to address, but alternative could be much much worse. good luck!!

He's clearly mentally ill.

I agree. But how many "serious talks" can we have? Seriously? How many times have I broken down in tears, and he has told me he prefers me to some future child?

Tonight he couldn't believe I was still upset with him. He said that all he meant was that no one should ever talk in absolutes. That I used an absolute upset him.

I still think he's clueless and living in a fairy tale. I cannot become upset about this again. I've been very depressed the last week, and I don't need this right now.

Oh, and the latest update on SIL is she still hasn't even taken an Advil since she went into labor. DH says that millions of women around the globe are gathering to form a "We Hate A" club.

I guess it would be one thing if he just came out and said, "hey, I WANT children." He swears that he understood when we got married that I didn't want children.

What I don't understand is how a man could want a child. I guess it's easy, being that you're not really involved when you're the father, but what man WANTS a child??? It boggles my mind.

My brother wants a child. He and my SIL are having their baby in June. She has two sons from her first marriage, so I think this was his idea. He's very excited about it. He doesn't want to know the sex of the baby, he wants it to be a surprise.

A coworker of mine told me she didn't want kids initially but her husband talked her into it. They had two kids, and now they are her entire life, and she homeschools them. She did a total 180 degree turnaround. But I don't think that's typical. Luckily for the kids, she got the maternal instinct.

So, there are men who want kids, for whatever reasons. Heck, my dad wanted kids, and he was very involved with my brother and me when we were young. He would take me places with him and give my mom a break, especially when my brother was a baby. We did lots of family activities. Dad didn't really have separate hobbies, if he wasn't at work, he was with my mom and us. I guess things are different now, and people do lots of things separately. I know it's been a struggle for my DH and I to find an activity to do together, that we both enjoy. I think we've found it though...flyball classes and practices with our Australian Cattle Dog.

Cindy

i actually know lots of men who really wanted a child and had one, or want one and plan to have one. they're children are very fortunate to have them.

BUT, this is about your man. i'm so sorry you're going through this. it sounds really upsetting. the part that would really get to me is the eye rolling b/c it's like he's trivializing or invalidating your feelings. maybe you should wait until you've had some time to think and to feel stronger before discussing your feelings with him. if it were me, i'd probably spend a little time writing how i felt to process it a bit.

Ingilbert, you've also stated in another thread that your husband is a "my time" kind of guy. Which I think is okay but if you have different views NOW on the division of labour, can you imagine if you gave in and had a child?

I'm sorry he's not on the same page as you.

I did go through a period of indecision about children but I did all my soul seaching prior to getting married. One thing I've learned in life is that you can't change people. You can only change your reaction to them and either learn to love them as they are or move on.

I know what you mean about having the same discussion over and over again. I don't think that rehashing ever solved anything. Just make sure he knows your position and leave it at that. He's a grown man and can take responsiblity for his own decisions.

I have found that SOME men out there don't hear things that are something they don't want to know.

He swears that the "my time" thing would change. I don't believe him for a second.

We had a talk last night and he again reassured me that he prefers me over some currently non-existent child.

He then reiterated that you shouldn't talk in absolutes, because things can always change.

I said, "so when you say that you'll ALWAYS love and you'll NEVER divorce me, that's an exception to the 'no absolutes' rule?"

He didn't have a response to that.

He changed the subject by saying that he thinks I should go back to therapy, not because of the whole CF thing, but because I haven't been happy for a while, which I agree with.

No, that's not true. I'm very happy when I'm at work. I'm not happy with myself, and I'm not happy with how I perceive certain things he says to me. I've always felt like he is a know-it-all, and it's bothering me more and more lately. I think it bothers me because I say to him, "hey, talking like that bothers me," he says he'll stop, and then the next day he does it.

Like ... I'll be telling him a story I heard on the news, and he'll interrupt and say that he ALREADY heard that and will proceed to finish my story for me. It's like I never know anything.

He's always been this way, his whole family is this way, and lately it's really getting under my skin. THAT is why I get [censored] off so easily with him these days. Not that I'm depressed, but that I am so agitated by him lately.

But I love him more than anything, I am very happy with him (most of the time) and couldn't imagine life without him. So it's not like I don't love him, he's just irritating the hell out of me!!!

Oh, he also suggested couples counseling, which I think would be MUCH more constructive than me going in for whatever alone!

Couples counseling might be a great help. I don't know if it's always been there, or it's something that has developed over time, but it seems to me you two are suffering from a major communications barrier. I may be biased (in fact, I probably am), but it sounds like it's mostly on his end. he's hearing what he wants to hear, and not really listening. I think his upbringing plays a large part in this, too. What you say about his words and action implies a "King of the Castle" mentality. That makes for a very poor listener to any voice not his own. Like he's gradually developing into the man he saw his father being when he was young. I suggest taking him up on the offer and doing so quickly. A communications problem can erode a marriage with amazing speed.

I hope I'm not being too presumptive with these comments, and I don't want you to think I think ill of him, but what you've told us about his early home life combined with this recent information worries me. He may not intend to act like the "King of the Castle whose voice is the only one worth hearing." He may even abhor the idea. That doesn't mean it isn't happening. Nip it in the bud. Get a counselor that will help you prevent this little annoyance from becoming a major problem.

Myra - I agree with you. I know I'm not perfect, I know I tend to overreact, but I know there are times when HE is in the wrong! I know he doesn't listen to me.

And you know else he said last night? He said, "going into marriage I didn't know what I wanted regarding children, and I didn't know what you wanted, either." HELLO?!?

Yes, maybe I was only 98% crystal clear with him on the kids issue, but HOW many times has he told me that he KNEW going into marriage that I did NOT want kids? Um, how about EVERY time we have this discussion?

I think he's now just remembering whatever the heck he wants to remember.

Hence the mental illness theory.

Ick, I detest "selective memory" people. :P Or at least that aspect of them, it's maddening to KNOW you've done something (or didn't!) and for them to say the exact opposite or claim something way off base because they were never really paying attention in the first place.

Couples therapy sounds good. I sure do wish you guys the best.

I definitely agree with the couples therapy idea. Sometimes it really helps to have a third person looking at things and offer ideas "objectively". Even if you said the same thing, people listen more when it comes from someone else.

Ingilbert- I think it's a big positive that your husband actually suggested couples therapy, instead of just blaming you entirely. I would be annoyed as all hell at him for some of the things he said (I think possibly my head would explode), but since he suggested therapy, that's a pretty good thing.

I just hope you can find a therapist that understands your CF decision.

Great idea! It will be so productive to be able to really express yourselves in a neutral situation and work through everything. Let us know how it goes if you decide to do it!

Also, I think my husband dissed us all last night.

I mentioned this forum and the support I get here, and he said, "you have a lot of friends on that forum, don't you?"

I said yes.

He said, "you realize that those people aren't a random selection of the population, right? I guess most people who don't want kids are like your friends, you guys all just have had the bad experiences. Generally, people don't seek out support groups unless they have a problem."

First, I was a bit offended at that. But then I replied, "um, that's why it's a support group. Because we need support from other people who feel the same way."

I realize I'm kind of setting DH up as an [censored] here, but he's generally not an [censored]. He's just clueless. He honestly has no idea that what he says can be hurtful, egotistical, etc. He doesn't say it to BE an [censored], maybe that's how I should clarify it.

And I'm certainly not an innocent, blameless angel. I just don't pretend that I am.

Oh, grr.

I did call my doctor for a referral, and her office gave me a number I had to call, and I had to leave a message for this person to call me back (I guess I have to get the referral from HER.) Whatever. HMOs suck.

I'm not a violent person. Really, I'm not.

If I were in the room with him, he would be flat on the floor with a boot up his @$$.

Plus I'd stomp on his face a few times for good measure.

Being insulting to your wife and her network of friends/support ... is not permissible. Not at all.

Clueless or not, he is an @$$hole.

I don't think of it as a support group, more a group of like-minded individuals. Similarly, I used to post on a student forum, not because I needed support with being a student, but because I had something in common with others in a similar position. I don't see how seeking out others to share your views and concerns is a sign of a problem...

Wait, so the fact that I go out drinking wine with my friends who drink wine means we've had "bad experiences" with wine?? His statement makes no sense at all.

People gather together to discuss a common interest because THEY HAVE A COMMON INTEREST. I belong to birding groups to talk about birding. I belong to literature groups to talk about literature. We share an interest and enjoy talking about it and gaining ideas!!

I have a low carb forum. It's not that we've had "bad experiences"!! We *like* eating low carb food and want to share ideas and recipes. So yes it's a 'support group' because we are all sharing our interest. He is making it sound like that is bizarre or unusual!!

Doesn't he have a dart team where they go and talk about darts, or a softball league where they go and talk about softball or *any* interest like that?

I will have to disagree with your husband Ingilbert.

I haven't had only bad experiences, I have both good and bad, and weighed them equally. Choices depend on your background, upbringing, education and circumstances. I love children. My nephews and nieces are by far my favourite people in the world. Don't ask me to change a dirty diaper though. I like kids, I just don't like babies.

You might want to tell your DH that the section of the population that chooses not to procreate consciously tend to have a much higher rate of intelligence than the general population. They tend to put a lot of thought into life-changing decisions.

Some are early articulators that know that children are not for them. There is also the segment that stalled child-bearing for pursuits such as education and career advancement. Once you've become accustomed to an independent and joyful lifestyle, who wants to f*ck with that?

And he needs to rethink his idea of support. A "support" group can just be a safe venue where like-minded individual can freely express their views with fear of being judged. He might need to investigate a support group for himself since he feel s that the only way one's life can be fulfilling is by spawning. Oh, I'm sorry, that's pretty much all the sheeple! Hence our need for a support group!

I'm sorry to hear this Ingilbert. That does sound condescending. He's looking at CF as something that's a negative, that's why he's assuming we've all had bad experiences. But choosing NOT to have kids is NOT a bad thing. If you don't choose one thing (to have kids) you choose to do something else with your time that is meaningful. What could possibly be wrong with that? And what could be wrong with following your passions? Having kids isn't your passion, and you would have to give up most of what you love to have kids. How is that a good thing? I would argue that HAVING kids is much more of a negative. But it's all perception.

I have seen good and bad kids, and love my nephew, as you all know, but I don't want a kid of my own. Even if someone told me my child would be an angel, I don't want one! I want my life, and the things that speak to me.

Wow, I'm sorry you are going through this Ingilbert. Sometimes we do need 'support' not because being child-free is negative (it is my choice and it is the right one for me) but because it can be a hard choice to explain to others...like what you are going through right now. I've been there (not married, but long-term relationships).

The therapy sounds like a good idea. If he is willing to go than that is a really good sign...at least he wants to try and work it out. Is he clearly saying he wants children, or is he just arguing with you for the sake of arguing? Does he want it/them now or would he wait? Is adoption an option for either of you?

There could be alot to discuss...more productive than his making fun of your 'support group.'

lngilbert, that sucks that he said that to you. Maybe point him in the direction of truemomconfessions, then he can see that we're not this weird group of people, but we've actually thought through a life changing decision much more than the people who just go ahead and randomly breed.

I have to say though, you are a lot nicer than I would be in that situation. If my husband ever said something like that he would know, in very certain terms, that it was not acceptable to dismiss me out of hand in that way nor to say something about people that he's never met.

Malamutes, I meant to say that earlier... it's not just the CF blogging about the "joys" of parenthood - the disillusionment with parenting is a known thing.

I'm sorry too. It sounds like some counseling is definitely in order. He needs to accept that this is how you feel, and if he doesn't like it, he'll need to figure out what to do about it. Waiting around for you to change your mind, and being dismissive of your wants, is not cool!

I also wanted to suggest showing him that long thread in the Mom's section of Bellaonline: "I hate being a mom."

On that though, could you arrange something with your sister, so that your husband has to take care of her two children all by himself for a day or two? As in, you two plan a weekend away where nobody but him is available to look after the children? That way he could see for himself that his life would change and it would give him some concrete child-rearing experience.

I tried this with my husband on a much smaller scale, think 40 minutes with a 4 year old and he was pulling what's left of his hair out. He couldn't believe how much longer things took and how difficult simple things were to do. With men I sometimes think that they really just don't have a clue because they've never been exposed to it.

Malamutes, that's a fantastic idea!

Ten bucks says he caves in less than an hour... An infant and a toddler would tear him down without even trying.

I agree that he seems to be seeing being CF as a negative. The best thing a counselor could do for you is to convince him that it's just a choice, like so many other things we choose to do or not to do with our lives.

His opinion being that it's a negative says nothing about the people who have chosen to be CF, but says a hell of a lot about him....

I'm in full agreement with Duane, by the way. Had I been in the room, he would have been wounded. Probably until he was crying or unconcious. I have a temper and $h!t like that make me totally lose it. I would have been to angry to be stopped by the knowledge that it wasn't my place to defend you.

Oh, and ALSO - when I got home today DH today laughed at me and said that I made the stew wrong so I got mad. He said, "didn't you even READ the slow-cooker directions?" (Sorry, I was trying to clean the whole house AND get the stew ready for the crockpot. Not my fault that all the directions were on one page and the slow-cooker directions were on the next page. He said, "oh, I assumed you just ignored the slow-cooker directions.")

I said, "how come you always tell me when I do stuff wrong?" He said it wasn't that I did it wrong, but that I don't do it right.

I said, "what is the difference?"

Do you know his response? "My mom always made stew, I know how to make it." (Like my mom never made stew, WTF?)

I said, "do you think this helps?"

And then you know what? He ADMITTED THAT IT'S HIS PROBLEM! HE said he realizes that sometimes he comes off like a know-it-all! Although he also added that he doesn't understand why having a good self-image is a problem. But it was a good step, because he has NEVER said that it was his problem, he always says that I'M crazy, that my parents got divorced so I have problems, or that I'm too sensitive.

I said, "is the stew ruined?"

He said no.

I said, "so why tell me that I did it wrong?"

He said he thought I'd appreciate knowing that I did something wrong because he thinks that I'd feel embarrassed if I found out myself. Also, he watches the Food Network.

Oh dear, I'm still drunk, because I just laughed out loud at that statement. It's so ridiculous.

So then I tried to explain WHY things like that upset me (I was told all through high school, or rather, it was implied by looks and snickers, that I wasn't good enough. It's why I stopped writing, because when people knew it was my work, they ripped it apart. I will never forget the day that the teacher read my work anonymously and I got the most glowing reviews before the kids learned who had written it. SUCK IT!) I mean, he knows all this, how many times do we have to go through it?

Anyway, he thinks he is going to have to reevaluate the things he says. I think this time he actually listened to me. Because I said, "you always say that you won't act like that, and then five minutes later you do. It bothers me. It might not be right, it's MY problem that it affects me that way it does, but you don't help by acting like that over and over." (Which, by the way, I have said to him DOZENS OF TIMES.)

But, I think this time it sunk in. Later he told me that the reason he says things is that he thinks I'm perfect or something and so he gives me advice because he thinks I can do better.

Hell, I'm not his student, I'm his WIFE. I said, "and you don't think that's the tiniest bit condescending?" He says maybe it does sound condescending the way he says it, but that's not what he means. (He REALLY means this!) Oh, and I also said that he does lots of stuff wrong, like housework and stuff with the dogs, but that I don't say anything because it's not a big deal and I don't want to hurt his feelings, and he got all reflective about that, and I think he's FINALLY getting that words hurt, even if you don't mean it. Telling him that some of his friends that he grew up with feel the same way may have had an affect on him, too. (It's true, some of my friends were his friends in high school and ALWAYS have told me, before I even dated him, that his whole family has this self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude.)

I wish that stupid lady from the counseling center would call back so I could set up an appointment. I think my husband needs it more than I do! Haha! The screen is getting all fuzzy. Time to go watch some Buffy.

Oh, and I said that you guys also think that he is a jerk. Now he is sad that you guys think he's an [censored]. For someone who was so flippant about my online community earlier yesterday or whenever it was, he sure does care about what you people think about him!

So even though he's a jerk without meaning it and I do blow some things out of proportion, know that he is genuinely a nice guy and really is just clueless and it's just kind of sad that he has no perception of how he is ... um ... perceived. I love him so much, and he is generally really, really good to me. I really could have done much worse.

I also think part of the problem is that we are each others' best friend, so when there is an issue, it becomes very inflamed. But yeah, please don't think I have marital issues. I am 95% of the time blissfully in love and my heart hurts because I love my husband so much, and I KNOW he loves me. He just has a stupid mouth.

I can't feel my fingers now. God, I'm such a lightweight! I'm going to go watch an episode of Buffy with my lovely husband who has finally suggested couples counseling and has admitted that he is, after all, part of the problem.

I feel like I'm talking really loud, am I talking really loud? Pam from The Office said that.

You guys are the best, I love you all!

We love you, too, Drunken Lynette.

Ingilbert, your typing is amazingly accurate for someone who's a little "squiffy" (a new word I learned from a Brit yesterday)! My typing accuracy goes all to heck when I'm squiffy! It's not even worth typing when I've been drinking! LOL! I am impressed!

Cindy

All we want for you is the best, Lynette. Sometimes that means saying a spade is a spade and not sugar-coating it. I am direct when I have to be, and I felt like I HAD to say what was on my mind, because I've seen that behavior before (the husband not acting in the best interest of the wife and the wife reacting by being calm, but inside, seething with anger). When the cry for help goes out (and that is how I read your initial message) I had to respond.

I'd rather you not have to go through this time of trouble, but if the end result is that things get better and you two can openly communicate more, then it will be worth it. I am glad that things have settled down so they can be discussed calmly.

I've never met you in person, but through all of the topics that we've discussed out here, I feel like I do know you...and I feel the reverse is true as well.. When one of us gets hurt (by our spouses, no less!) on an area that is obviously so personal to us, you should feel comfort that everyone wants to step up to bat for you. True friendship like that doesn't come easily or often.

Get your rest, Lynette. Things will get better.

OH Duane, you are so nice! But I can be a crazy lunatic sometimes, so I'm definitely not that calm when I get angry! My old therapist said it had something to do with when I had anxiety, I repressed ALL emotion, so now I don't know how to control my emotions. I go overboard since I don't have to pretend like I don't have anxiety. Well, cause I don't have anxiety.

You guys are awesome.

And as far as being "squiffy" I am deleting and retyping a lot. But I'm a very good typist to begin with, so that may be a plus! I know I said I was going to watch Buffy. I LIED!! Haha! I'm evil!

But it was a good step, because he has NEVER said that it was his problem, he always says that I'M crazy, that my parents got divorced so I have problems, or that I'm too sensitive.

This is starting to sound a little like my husband. Ug! We have this unpleasant dynamic where he provokes me, and when I get mad, all of sudden it's "Wow! You're so quick to jump to anger. Just like your crazy mother."

It.drives.me.insane.

But, I love him like crazy too, and accept his flaws. We might need some counseling too though.

Hey, if he needed to be called out for acting like a jerk gets him to take a good look at what he's doing, then fantastic! He was acting like a jerk, but acting like a jerk sometimes doesn't mean you have to BE a jerk all the time, you actually can change how you do things!

I didn't comment earlier, because well...If my guy had acted condescending towards me (without making it clear he was joking) I'd have torn his face off. :P

Glad to see someone shares my violent tendencies, Grey.

Does bonding over that make us scary?

Lynette, if you and/or a counselor can't knock some sense into that guy, send him to us. We'll give him the full "Zuzu" treatment:
Take no bull, flip his arguments in search of logic, and speak mountains of honest, well-thought out truths.

I'll help out with that. I was telling my husband about what had happened to you and he was saying that, had he been in your husband's position, the knives would have to be hidden. He wouldn't want to deal with my anger at that point in time.

This morning I woke up to hear a lot of crows. I said, "when's the last time you heard a flock of crows in the middle of winter?" He turned over in his sleep and mumbled, "murder." What? "It's a murder of crows, not a flock."

SEE! I'm not crazy! He has to constantly correct me! Even in his sleep!

Ingilbert that is so strange- I was awoken by crows this morning also!

Heh...Well Ingelbert, I'd be guilty of correcting you on that one too, but I'm master of useless knowledge especially concerning animals. I think I would have phrased it "Did you know that a flock of crows is called a murder? A flock of ravens is an Unkindness (or a Congress, what does that say about our government? )" The attitude is what makes a comment like that an offering or a criticism. He's giving you criticisms because he's not SHARING the info, he's TELLING you it. It's a subtle difference, but an important one that he should learn.

As for scaring our mates...Well, I was in the kitchen making supper, talking to my guy about the Dr.Phil show that was on that day. Apparently this woman's jackass husband would tell her she made "C+ meals", which my guy thought was horrible too. I pause in my cooking and look over my shoulder. "YOU don't think I make C+ meals, DO you?" he nearly fell over himself going "NO NO NOT AT ALL! NEVER!" I think he was afraid I'd poison him. ^_^

I know that it's a murder, but at 7 in the morning, I don't really care, you know? :-)

At 7 in the morning, I'd be saying something more along the lines of "Those $()%&@#$ birds won't shut up!"

Ingilbert- it sounds like one of the nice things about your husband is that you can talk to him about it and he actually thinks about it. That's the sign of a keeper!

IMO your husband needs to learn to actively listen and take on board what you have to say.

He is not actively listening to you if he gets hung up on particular words you use, and not the meaning in the whole phrase.

When you say you will "never" have children - he says that you should not use absolutes. But there is meaning in every word you choose - in this case "never" should tell him that this is something you feel strongly about; this is something serious, and he should think about this issue seriously. He needs to learn to hear your meaning in the words you choose to use, not just take offense with them.

When you said "When's the last time you heard a flock of crows in the middle of winter" - he focused on the word 'flock' and not on the question that made up your sentence! Once again he needs to hear the meaning in the sentence you used, and not just take offense with a misused word.

He should never respond to anything you say with an eye roll and walking away. Ever. You're supposed to be the love of his life - and he should take you seriously.

I hope your counsellor helps to teach him to actively listen to you.

I also hope that your counsellor does not automatically assume you'll change your mind about wanting a baby.

Decided - YES! That is EXACTLY IT!! Thank you!

If he had said that to me at seven in the morning, my response would have been, "Speaking of murder..."