I was enjoying a lovely afternoon with my friend yesterday at the Kimbell art museum in Fort Worth. Somewhere between becoming engrossed in Picasso's "Head of a Woman" and van Gogh's "Self Portrait," my peaceful serenity was totally wrecked by some screaming kid. The thing was wailing through room after room, and I finally asked a curator to what extent the wailing had to go before someone said something to the stroller operator. I was fuming, and my friend couldn't blame me.

She told me about one of her friends who went to a spa where some mother had brought her screaming kid. The friend promptly walked up to the mother and demanded she pay for her spa treatment, citing that she was there to relax and unwind, which was totally impossible with the terrible noise from her noisy, unpleasant offspring. I don't know if she was successful or not, but it's definitely something to think about the next time I'm trying to enjoy something for adult appreciation.

I would love to have the guts to say, "Can we strike a deal here? I won't complain to the staff about your screaming kid such that you'll have to exit the building with it if you'll be courteous to pay for my ticket."

Seriously, what does a stroller bound kid get out of a Kimbell museum visit?

Leave it at home and do the world a favour. Sheesh.

You have every right to be annoyed. Children don't belong everywhere. They freak out every couple of hours or so, so you have to know that if you will be at the museum for three hours, there's a chance your child might be obnoxious at some point.

I would have asked the spa to reimburse me for allowing this woman to disrupt my experience. Then it would force the woman to take responsibility for herself and her child. With a spa, you are paying for a certain type of environment. It's a place where people go to get *away* from kids.

I think there should be noise-free areas from here on out. We flew home from Florida yesterday, and I got stuck with yet another talker on the plane. I brought my ipod this time, but this guy was so loud and annoying that it didn't help much. I will eventually invest in the no nonsense earphones that block *everything* out.

I just can't stand noise, and I don't get why people think it's okay to talk incessantly when they are in close quarters with other strangers. I was so tired, and I was huffing and puffing in my seat when he would make his loud proclamations. If the flight had been an hour longer, I would have had words with the man. When the plane landed, and we were disembarking, he was *still* talking my DH2B's ear off, and talking about nothing. The woman next to me thought he was really annoying, too. Why don't people get the hint when the flight attendants dim the lights, and hand out earphones that it's "quiet time." Some people are so dense.

This annoys me to no end. Museums are quite places, kids aren't hard to figure out and if you know your kid can't handle it don't take them. I know which of my friends babies and kids I could take and could not take, so parents should be able to as well.

Secondly there are things such as children's museums or sections of museums geared for kids. That is where kids should be.

Not to mention the fact that why would you drag your kid somewhere where they won't enjoy themselves? Ultimately you both will have a horrible time.

As for kids in spas I can't begin to explain that one. Those types of luxuries I would save for teenagers and adults, something to look forward to.

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but the new trend here is to take infants, toddlers and untrained dogs to art fairs. Between the strollers clogging already crowded walkways, toddlers scrambling around underfoot, dogs menacing children and each other and trying to steal refreshments if you dare buy any plus dodging the poop piles the trashy owners refuse to pick up, it's become quite the ordeal. WHY do they have to try to ruin art fairs?

On Saturday, my husband and I went out for dinner in one of the upscale neighborhoods nearby. (Colleyville - Angela P. probably knows where it is!) Of course, the place was full of families, though it's not particularly a family-oriented establishment. But they do provide highchairs, like every other nearby restaurant. So the hostess tries to seat us next to a family with a highchair toddler. Oh boy! I quickly and discreetly said, "Do you have someplace else..." then my husband noticed a table that was by itself, though it was for four and we were two. She did seat us there, though. But what made her think that a couple without children would want to sit by a toddler in a highchair? The tables are fairly close together, ours would have been about a foot from the family's. Instead we got to watch another family that had a toddler that SHOULD have been in a highchair, because he was out of his chair at every opportunity, with no parental correction. At least they weren't within food-throwing range.

Cindy

The spa thing is just ridiculous! You know what it is? It's too cheap (or paranoid!) to get a sitter.
I am pretty lucky, even though my holidays are school holiday times I don't have many run-ins.
But this weekend, on Saturday I saw the Simspons movie --- fortunately reasonably quiet audience, one of the adults near me laughed a bit laugh that's all but it was fine.
Then I got a "home-made" burger from a home made style burger place. I sat where I could people watch if I wanted but then this baby?? tot?? started to SCREAM it's bloody head off! I couldn't even SEE it but it was ECHOING!
There was one of those kiddie cars - parents pay, kids sit in them and are moved a wee bit from side to side - nearby but it didn't seem to be coming from there but they were SHRIEKING seriously. Was still going at least five minutes later, not a happy shrieking, like a baby or tot crying, screaming.
So I had to go INSIDE the burger place/restaurant to enjoy my burger in SILENCE!
Usually I don't mind if kids have "melt-downs" cos I just think thank god I don't have any of THOSE!!! But THIS time, it was just ANNOYING!

ARGH!!!
Just don't get me started on this...

The SPA really takes the cake!
What a selfish woman.
So clueless (I don't understand why the Spa allowed her child in. Aren't there rules regarding this?)

The spa I go to has an age limit, thank goodness. (They also ask people to turn off their cell phones.)

While waiting at the gate at the airport last week, two infants were screeching. After about 15 minutes, I finally laughed in frustration and the lady across from me said, "I can't take this at 5:00 in the morning." I agreed, then said to my husband that listening to them made *me* want to cry. Does anyone else have this reaction? After being subjected to the constant crying, I really feel like I could burst into tears myself.

Yes, I said this exact thing a couple of days ago on the forum (great minds think alike, and all of that). If someone interrupts my sleep, I am cranky until I make up the sleep. And I would literally cry if someone not only woke me up in the middle of the night, but if I had to deal with someone that was *crying* in the middle of the night. Brutal!

YES -- I feel that way, too, when I hear a baby crying. I want to cry, too. And it's not out of frustration as much as it is just such a terribly sad sound, like from pain. I could not imagine those sounds coming from any room in my house. And if it didn't stop, I'd want to commit suicide.

The sound of a crying baby just makes me want to scream. I'd be so easy to torture - just shut me in a room with a wailing baby for two minutes, and I'd tell you anything you wanted to know, just please make it stop!

This is one sound guaranteed to set my teeth on edge and make my blood pressure rise. There was one in the supermarket last weekend, alternately wailing and screaming, and the parents just oblivious - arrgggh!! Food shopping is a chore already, your mobile torture device is NOT HELPING!

And that glass-shattering squeal that two year olds make is just as bad, if not worse. I have the patented glare of death for any child that makes that noise in my vicinity!!

Yes, it is a sad sound to me also. I thinks that's why it makes me want to cry as well. But it's the infants that make me feel that way. When a two year old is screeching it usually just seems bratty to me, because they usually don't sound like they're in any physical pain - they just seem upset because they can't have what they want.

Crying infants (less than 2) make me feel utterly helpless - like they are suffering and I can't do anything right. Crying or whining toddlers (and up) make me want to gouge my eyes out with sharp objects.

The worst sound is not just the screaming kid, but the "hypersonic" screaming kid -- the sound that even if you had ear plugs 3 inches thick, you'd STILL hear that piercing, screeching high-pitched whine!

Anything more than 5 seconds of that and I go crazy. Not a fun sight.

There is a difference between infants and toddlers, because toddlers can talk, and tell you what is wrong. When my nephew was a baby, he was crying hysterically one night, and my sister and I didn't know what was wrong with him. We finally gave him something for gas, and he was still crying because he had gotten himself so worked up, but he was smiling. It was like he was saying, thank you for getting it! And we commented that he was "smiling through his tears." Because, when they are that little, crying is the only way they can tell you something is wrong. And the poor guy was frustrated.

Agreed, happy... the ability to communicate makes all the difference. I'm the same way with my critters - it kills me that they can't tell me what's wrong when they don't feel well.

OMG, this so funny to me right now. I was just trying to figure out what is wrong with my dog, because she's acting a little funny like there's a sore spot on her rear end. I was running my hands over her body saying, "Show me where hurts" and wishing she could answer (she didn't). Talk about feeling like a crazy cat lady, here I am trying to read my dog's mind.

That's funny. See, that's actually one of the things I like about animals, that they don't talk. Although it's frustrating to communicate with them. If babies could stay in that cute phase, like animals do, I would have one. But once they start mouthing off, I'm out of there!

You're doing the right thing for your dog, Frieda. Spend some quiet time with her, doing just what you're doing, and you might be able to help your vet figure things out faster.

We went to mini golf last night. It was pretty late, I would think, even for a Saturday night. We got there at 9:30. The place was packed and there was a family in front of us with four kids between the ages of about 6 and 11. I thought, oh man, we're going to be here FOREVER with these kids in front of us. But actually, by the time we were ready for the next hole, they were just finishing it. And all the kids were pretty nice and polite.

But, we didn't finish until 11, and they still had plans to go out for ice cream.

My husband said to me, "shouldn't those kids be in bed or something?"

Ugh...my latest pet peeve: KIDS IN THE LIBRARY!!! I'm not saying kids shouldn't go to the library...I'm saying they should behave properly in the library. I usually go to the library once a week. It seems like the behavior of kids (and some adults!) is getting worse and worse. Libraries are supposed to be QUIET places. A place where you can browse, sit down in one of the comfy chairs, and READ. There are students there studying as well.

Yet people bring kids in there who are crying, fussing, screaming, running, talking loudly, etc. Why aren't these parents teaching their kids that this isn't a place for that?

A couple of week ago, I was there and a mother brought a kid in who was already BAWLING her eyes out. It's not like it happened when they were already there. No, she brought the already screaming/bawling kid into the library. Fun. Many of the patrons were disgusted. When I was checking out (and the kid was still throwing a temper tantrum), on of the patrons made a remark about it to the librarian. The librarian said that it annoys the staff as well, but they aren't allowed to say anything about it!

Then again, how are kids supposed to learn. Especially when the "mother" (I use that term loosely) was yammering away on her cell phone, paying no mind to her kid or the other patrons.

YES! Why are they running in the library? That's what bothers me more than the talking!

I agree 100% with the points about the noisy kids and cell phones in the library. At the library I go to, the rule about cell phones is you can only use them in the lobby area near the entrance. Yesterday I ordered some bike parts on the internet. I used a computer at the libarary because my home PC is a dinosaur. (dog slow dialup) I went out to the lobby to call the tech support service at BikeNashbar to make sure I ordered the right parts. Another fellow told me when I finished my call "it sucks that you can only use your cell phone in the lobby." Whatever. Most of the time, I leave my cell phone at home when I go to the library.
Mike

As I've mentioned before, I work in a bookstore. There aren't a lot of differences in child and parent behavior there compared with your library stories. Except that your description is a watered-down version of what I see at work. In other words, I've seen it much worse.

They don't just run, they run until they literally run into someone. Often, that's me. Usually when I'm toting a heavy dolly full of boxes of magazines...

The babies scream until even the staff is giving the parent dirty looks. No one is comforting the child, or removing the child from the store until it is calm. Do they care at all about their baby or the people around them?

Our Kids section is the sight of daily disasters. Dozens of books piled on the floor on a daily basis. Frequently, there will be "forts" for the beanie babies built of books and section dividers on the floor in the corner.

The Kids room is a nightmare. The parents don't parent in there. They bring piles of books from other sections, sit down to read, and let they're kids run wild. Then both parent and child leave the books piled all over the floor, chairs, etc... even if mommy's chosen reading material is about cannabis or sex.

Just what every bookstore needs: A Kids room full of sex books and trip hazards! They not only care little for their own children, they don't give a damn about anyone else's.

Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent. But I really wish I could make my store a CF zone...

One of the casinos we go to at AC now has a pool for only Over- 21.
The AC casino pools are packed w/kids. I don't even know why the parents take them to AC, but of course they congregate at the pools. We always thought that on a AC trip we wouldn't see any of them.......

And that's one of MY pet peeves as well - that kids take over the damn pools. I was on a ski weekend last year and the other half and I went to use the communal hot tub at the hotel we were staying at. There was a dad and three kids there, and the kids were running between the heated swimming pool and the hot tub (where Dad was), squealing, splashing and running while he just sat there. I finally got really [censored] when the two girls started having a splash fight in the hot tub, told both of them to knock it off and then gave Dad the death glare. Thank god he took the hint, packed up and took them over to the main pool soon after that. Dude, I came down here to relax and chill out, not listen to your kids screeching - and why do I have to teach them how to behave? Isn't that YOUR job?

Of course, the other half thought I was totally overreacting. Sometimes I could really have slapped him ...

I think with this, the mother has learned to tune her child out. And that's how they probably deal with it at home, when they get to the end of their rope. They try to tune the kid out. What they *don't* realize is that their children aren't everyone else's problem. And that they should act like adults, and remove their child for the sake of others. But they are selfish, and don't want to do that. So they make others suffer.

To what Jez said, the "cell phone Mom" really bugs me. My sister is like that - whatever is going on with her friends is infinitely more interesting than what her son is doing. She is literally always on the phone when she is with her son (which isn't that often) so that even when she is present, she really isn't there with him. So sad.

I see this a lot with young Moms. They are still trying to act like teenagers and live the party life, and talk on the phone all day long. But they do it at the expense of their children. Drives me nuts!

I hate people on cell phones. It seems I'm always standing in line behind them at the grocery store. A couple times I've taken a call in a store, but I always say "hold on" or "I'll call you back" and put it down when I'm standing in line. There was a mom with her kid in line the other day. The mom was on her cell phone. Little Suzy was trying to talk to her, and the guy behind the counter was trying to talk to her, and she was trying to talk on the phone. She kept apologizing to the person on the phone "I'm sorry, I'm trying to check out at the grocery store."

Little Suzy had chocolate smeared all over her face, so the kid at the counter gave Mom a paper towel. She absently scraped at her kid's face while he packed up her cart - she wasn't paying attention because she was on her super important phone call! Half the time she wasn't even getting the chocolate off, and Little Suzy didn't appreciate her face getting scraped, so she started putting up a fuss.

Thank god they left then.

Kids at the pool bug me, too, but I realize they want to have fun, and they should be allowed to, as long as it's contained/controlled. But the hot tub story -- that's overboard, and I don't blame you at all, Pikasam.

People were speaking about libraries before. Well, I work in the photo archives of a library/historical society and one day a lady brought all three of her kids with her plus a friend of hers. To put it mildly, it was annoying. She had two of the toddlers on those child leash things attached at the wrist. That didn't stop them from running all over the room and putting their hands on everything. They were also annoying their little sister in the baby carriage who got fussy. Meanwhile, my supervisor and I were just giving each other looks like, "why did she bring them in here??" There were no other patrons for them to irriate but it was certainly irritating us! I didn't understand why she couldn't leave them at home or have her friend sit out in the hall or something for a few minutes with them while she looked through the photo collection. It would have taken less time because she wouldn't have to jump up and grab the rambunctious kids and scream at them every five seconds.
*sigh*

Yesterday night, my boyfriend took me to a nice restaurant for candle-light dinner (I was almost guessing maybe he was planning to propose to me? heehee ... no, he didn't ) and a table behind us were of 4 adults with 1 kid who's 1-year-old. How did I find out the kid is 1 yo? because it's her birthday, and they sang the birthday song to her loud and clear all of a sudden. People stared. My boyfriend almost burst out laughing. I scrowled at them.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PARENTS AND ADULTS? There are appropriate places for things!!!!!! It's a romantic dinner restaurant, for crying out loud! and the mother carried her baby girl around, baby-talking quite loudly. Parading around a romantic quiet restaurant is birthday entertainment for 1-yo?! Since when did that happen?????

good thing they left soon enough.

Why are 1st year birthday parties so huge, anyway? My friend has two kids, and for each kid's first birthday she had this whole petting zoo show. The kid had no idea what was going on. My sister had a large family and friends party at her house. It was fine, because it was more like the regular parties she has anyway, with presents and cake tacked on at the end. There were a few kids there, but they all played together quietly downstairs.

I don't know. My POV on birthday parties is that at the age of one, the kid doesn't even understand what is going on. At two, maybe. Three and up, they know they are the center of attention, so there is a point to them. My 3 nephews are of those ages where birthday parties are a fun occasion.

Personally, I don't really see the point of celebrating my birthday. The office here has the birthdays of everyone celebrated (ie here are the people who have birthdays this month). I've opted out of that -- out of 20 people, there are two that have a question mark on the list. I'm one of them. IMHO, you don't feel different from one day to another, it is the same as any other day. Most people, from what I see, go out on a romantic evening, or take a weekend trip, or do something "special" on a loved ones birthday. Guess what? If you are CF, you can do that ANYTIME you want (within reason, of course). We do that all the time. We don't need a "special occasion" to have fun. That is why I consider Valentine's Day to be a crock of ... stuff. Every day is Valentine's Day to me.

Sorry about your dinner, Kitty. But keep us posted if he proposes!!

I wonder too! as Duane_Va said, they don't even know what's going on! and ... *sigh* ... parents can go nuts about them in their own privacy, but not in a romantic restaurant clearly NOT existing for 1-year-old birthdays!

but it's great to know you guys feel the same!

heh-heh, thanks Angela, I sure will!!

My folks belong to a public pool, and I rarely go there and never want to go in because they are too many kids in the pool that aren't potty trained yet. I've been seen pieces of diaper floating in the pool in the past, and I'm sorry, public pools just don't appeal to me anymore. I'm sure we've all seen worse in pools at different points in our lives. Gross!