hi everyone! i thought about this topic yesterday when i was at work at the gym. a woman who used to teach there came in to work out.i really don't see her that often. she was saying how she never gets to come anymore b/c now she's "a mom". she said her mother will watch her daughter once in a while but that's it. the thing is we do have a babysitting service which i work weekdays mornings. it's not that expensive and a lot of parents use it. i understand that having kids means you have a lot less "me" time but like i said i know parents who bring their kids twice even three times a week while they work out. and this woman only has one kid.some of the other parents have two, three, and even four kids.

i just don't understand these child obssessed parents. i mean one of my best friends has two kids and she's not like that at all. she has an outside life and can talk about other things. it is actually b/c of this that i do want to hear about her kids.

i want to make it clear that i dont' believe that all parents are "child obssessed."i just dont' get the ones that are.

i mean you can't come one hour a week at least and work out.give me a break! i just personally dont' think it's good for the parent or the child to have a parent who is "child obssessed."

i'm married but still i'm not with my hubby all the time!we have a great marriage but being with him 24/7 would drive me crazy!

indigo

I saw the header and followed this thread to your board. I am married with four children, so perhaps I can give you a different point of view.

There are many ways of doing things, and few systems are right for everyone. If your friend is enjoying being with her child almost all of the time, then it is clearly working for her. She may have discovered that yoga at home is more fun than trudging to the gym with assorted bottles, bags and diapers. It may be that your friend is having a prolonged "babymoon", as I like to call it. Parents do actually fall in love with their children, and can feel compelled to be with them all the time. It's an amazing feeling.

That being said, I do know of at least one individual who is completely enmeshed with her child. She has no friends of her own and no career or hobby. Everything she does revolves around the boy. I find this extremely sad and unhealthy.

take care-

Lorel

while I understand that parents falls in love with their children and feel compelled to be with them all the time, I think that it is imperative that they take outside time...for the mental health of themself and their child!

Kids need space too. Kids need to learn to be with someone OTHER than mom. The may grow up completely dependant....or grow up and RUN AWAY.

I dont have kids, but my mother was certainly child-obsessed. Though it seems to be even worse now. Moms, take sometime to develop yourself. You are the main female role model for your children. You have the power to show them that women can be many things! If they choose to be parents, great. Or they can choose to focus on a passion...they can be what they want to be

My sister is child-obsessed. It's a shame because she has great kids but they are a bit neurotic and over controlled. She has personal reasons for being paranoid about her kid's safety, but I wish she could let them develop more independence, it would be so good for them. Luckily, she's an all around pretty good mom, not too extreme.

I know a couple other parents that are doing a great job of giving their kids space and their behavior is much better. Those kids don't have tantrums and act out so much, they are also more calm in general. Very refreshing.

I agree with Lorel, at least she is not shlepping all the baby junk around taking over entire areas -- example: the moms at Starbucks or Second Cup (Canada).

They treat these coffee houses like kindergartens or playgroups: these mothers come in, enjoy their cup of java, and let their "little bundles of love" take over the place. At times one has to walk over and around all the toys and kids playing on the (dirty) floor to find a seat, and if you dare try to re-arrange their stuff on the ground in order to pull a chair out, they glare at you as if you are a "child-hater" and invading "THEIR territory".

People go to these places for reflection; to get a few minutes away from the office; to read; to write, while enjoying a coffee -- unfortunately, most times it is so noisy with screaming babies/children and loud-talking mommies discussing their nappies, breast-feedings, lack of sleep, etc., that one just wants to get out of there. It is inconsiderate of them (perhaps it is their plan... "let's chase everyone away and have our own place to go to with our children!" LOL ) and a reflection of what parenthood has become.

Alas, bad parent behaviour and lack of respect for the fellow human is everwhere: museums and libraries are no longer 'quiet'. Children are running around and parents do not tell their children to stop running or to be quiet: they are not explaining to them, or teaching them about social behaviour. Same thing at restaurants: there are so many family-friendly restaurants, why oh why, do parents insist on taking their children to restaurants obviously not meant for (their) children. It really isn't fair. Why do we have to put up with the sounds of children everywhere? I can understand airplanes (although, for the business traveller, shouldn't there be child-free flights?). I guess I'm a monster for suggesting that?

Why is everything 'child-friendly', 'family-friendly', yet we can never have days at places that are 'child-free', as if by wanting peace and quiet and adult conversation at a restaurant, museum, library or even my local coffee shop, it is a crime, a sign of intolerance for children.
It is not!
It is not selfish to not always want children around!

Before parents became parents, I can assure you that they too, did not always want noisy children around. Why is it as they become parents, they forget that?
What is happening is that, where I never really noticed children around that much because there were places that were nice and quiet, society over the past decade or so has decided that children are the most important thing in the world and to be worshipped and accepted with their ill-behaviour (what parents call "normal child behaviour", which I call: lack of discipline and education), now more and more I find myself becoming intolerant because I can't seem to find quiet (child-free) places!
Is it too much to ask?

As for the child-obsessed moms...
My BF's best friend and wife (they've been together for 18 years), started having children 3 years ago. Her overprotection and obsession with, especially the eldest, is disturbing. She spent his entire first year with a baby monitor glued to her ear and would go running to him whenever there was a sound, even a sigh in his sleep. She never let anyone hold him; she never reprimends his bad behaviour (she actually took him out of day-care, because when she went to see him, he and the other children were playing quietly and she said that "it isn't natural for children to be quiet. They are children and should do whatever they feel like. Children have to be children"); she barely leaves the house without him; she has no friends, except through her husband (she has 2 out-of-town friends from high school); she has no topic of conversation other than her children or my relationship with my BF "you want kids, don't you? 'cause I know that G does". (He doesn't, by the way).

It is sad, because she is a smart, very sweet and loving woman, but has become uninteresting and has lost herself to her boys. How can one tell her she needs help?
Even her husband stays away: he's always been a workaholic; however, he now gets home later and later and works on the weekends (his partner, a friend, has said that there is no reason for him to be at work, as the company is doing well).

I don't know... any thoughts?

Totally agree. I think of two friends who had babies while I was in my 20's. One was the classic first baby overprotective mother. The other had twins, and if the parents wanted time out, the twins were left with whoever would take them (in a good way), and the rest of the time they went wherever their active parents went. By the time they were all two, the last time I saw them all, mother #1 couldn't find anyone to babysit, because if she left the kid would just scream and fret and cry all night. The twins were absolute joys ... well behaved, independent, social, and perfectly happy to hang out with anyone and everyone.

I'm not really qualified to comment about daycare, not having kids, but I can't personally see that spending time with other children and adults can harm a baby at all. Are they ever too young to be learning good social skills?

And Piscean Goddess has a great point - when I was a kid I wouldn't DARE even raise my voice in a library, but now when I go in there there's squealing replicants everywhere. It seems like bars are about the only place you can go where you won't be assailed by kids on all sides. I feel your frustration. But god forbid that they should have things like "adult only communities" ...

I am a mom of a four year old. I went to Vegas for the first time, to meet college friends for one girl's bachelorette recently, without hubby and son, of course!

I was appalled and a bit frightened, seeing all the babies and little ones in casinos, late at night, with all that drinking, smoking and swearing all around them.

I was ashamed of those parents. Truly ashamed.

As I am here at home, when I see terrible behavior on a child's part and a nearby parent doing nothing to intervene.

Unfortunately, I found out a long time ago that to say something to the parent or the child results in absolute disaster for all concerned. I have been accused of being a child hater, a child abuser and a 'criminal' when I once told a mother in a McDonald's to please ask her bigger, older child to stop throwing smaller tots around inside the ball pit thingy they had there and hitting them in the face with his fist.

If you see this when you are out in public, do not confront the person or her/his child directly: complain to the manager and insist they be moved or that you be allowed to do so, immediately.

AND ALWAYS TELL THEM EXACTLY WHY YOU ARE REQUESTING THIS MOVE.

Totally agree. I think of two friends who had babies while I was in my 20's. One was the classic first baby overprotective mother. The other had twins, and if the parents wanted time out, the twins were left with whoever would take them (in a good way), and the rest of the time they went wherever their active parents went. By the time they were all two, the last time I saw them all, mother #1 couldn't find anyone to babysit, because if she left the kid would just scream and fret and cry all night. The twins were absolute joys ... well behaved, independent, social, and perfectly happy to hang out with anyone and everyone.

Parents of these "hothouse flowers" don't seem to realize that keeping their kids from becoming resourceful and flexible is hardly doing them any favors. I adore my twin niece and nephew; they're very well-behaved. But it seems that they have to ALWAYS be interfacing with an adult in order to be happy. I don't get it. I was off reading a book for hours ina big armchair by the time I was 7. It'll be interesting to see what happens next....they're 13 now. I wonder how adolescence is going to affect their "underfoot" nature.

And Piscean Goddess has a great point - when I was a kid I wouldn't DARE even raise my voice in a library, but now when I go in there there's squealing replicants everywhere. It seems like bars are about the only place you can go where you won't be assailed by kids on all sides. I feel your frustration. But god forbid that they should have things like "adult only communities".

The library was always like a church for me...you wouldn't even think about raising your voice beyond a whisper.

On the adult communities...how come the over-55s are the only ones who are allowed to have them? I don't understand the reasoning! Maybe it's like a fraternity hazing thing: "You're over 55, so we assume you don't have kids in the house by now. You've paid your dues. We'll let you in." What if you never had kids to begin with? Sheesh...

Just wanted to comment that there are lots of family-friendly restaurants around - it would be nice to have some that are off-limits to kids, or at least young kids. (this used to be the case for fancy restaurants, and still is in general, but not always).

As a parent, after I've gone to the trouble to arrange babysitting and am out on the town with my hubby, I'd love to have a wonderful supper and not hear toddler or baby voices ... that is what I am taking a holiday from, after all! Don't get me wrong, I love my kids and being with them, but I still need a hot date every once and a while.

Andie

Wouldn't it be great if some restaurants, especially upscale ones, would institute a rule such as "No children under age of 12 after 8pm" or something like that? I would certainly go to a place like that for a special occasion if I could be guaranteed a wonderful dining experience without the chance of children crying or being loud to ruin the evening. I'm sure childfree people and parents who arranged sitters so they could have a "hot date" would patronize such places.

Cindy

indigo2's and piscean_goddess' posts reminded me of one of my best friends. Her little boy is 5+ years old. In all that time she has NEVER gone out to dinner or to the movies alone with her husband, much less taken a weekend off alone or anything like that. The only 'alone' time my friend and her husband have (other than in bed, assuming they don't allow the little boy to sleep with them, although I wouldn't doubt it) is when they commute together back and forth from work. I'm not making it up! She told me so herself. Guess how that marriage is going, and how is it going to turn out after baby #2 (she is due any day now)?? All I can say is I wouldn't place my bets on the marriage. I am not a mother, so I will never understand the child obsession, but I know other mothers who defintely have healthier relationships both with their husbands, as well as their children. I agree such an obsession cannot be good for any of the people involved!!

I certainly would. When I go to a white-tablecloth restaurant, I've made that choice at least as much for the atmosphere as for the food. It's nice to know what you're going to get. I like a crayon-and-clown meal with the whole family as much as any doting auntie, but only when I'm prepared for it. When I'm all dressed up and expecting a hot date (or relaxing time) with DH in a good restaurant, I expect a very different experience!

I'm not just CF, I'm also not especially child -friendly. I have a very low threshold of tolerance for today's average "run wild" type of kid. And when I want to go out to eat, it is certainly not a test to see how long it takes me to have to choose between saying something to the parents and leaving... So whenever possible, we plan our restaurant visits late in the evening or in the "dead hours" around 2 or 3pm. We still see some obnoxious kids, but fewer that way.

myrabeth - I consider myself to be quite kid-friendly, and even I have a low tolerance for a lot of kids these days! I expect kids to be running around when I go to Olive Garden, but if I'm going to a nice $50 a plate restaurant, I don't need to hear some kid on the other side of the room whining that they don't like the food.

And since when is it okay for kids to be running around during meals, anyway? I was never allowed to get up from the table, and when my cousins and I were out we would just play at the table. We felt no need to go running around the restaurant.

I never got up from the table without permission, especially at a restaurant, as a child, either. I don't understand that tendency these days. Not only is it inconsiderate of the other diners, it's dangerous, as little kids often get underfoot of the waitstaff and could cause a dropped tray of hot food, etc.

There's a small restaurant near my house that has prominent signs stating "Children must remain seated unless accompanied by an adult" (to go to the bathroom, for example). I like that!

Cindy

I'm not very kid friendly, don't hate them, just don't have the patience required to deal with them. Don't think their antics are all that cute either. Don't want to have to deal w/the results of bad parenting when I'm out either - anywhere.

And yes - I would love "adult swim" hours at nice restaurants!

I don't think it's a matter of being "kid-friendly" or not, its a matter of respect for other people and the average person doesn't have it anymore so why would their kids have it? You want to know why kids act out like they do? Go to an elementary school when class lets out sometime and watch the parents! Actually, that is its own hell so I wouldn't recommend it, but it certainly is enlightening.

My feeling is that we are now 3 generations removed from the 60's and all the ideas and beliefs and lack of values promoted then are now being passed down to generation 3 and in some cases 4. There's nothing left. It went from being taught values to being taught to speak your mind to being taught only you matter to being taught the world is wrong and you are right. I was at Chuch E Cheese with my kids and saw this young girl, maybe 5, run into her 2 year old brother with her arms outstretched and just keep going without a look backward. Her parents were right there, and neither said a word. Wow the volumes that spoke about their family.

Personally I am of the belief that my children are able to be taught to listen, can walk by me in the store without running away, can sit in a restaurant without yelling or getting up, and can be pleasant and well mannered. Therefore the maximize potential, I don't go out to eat with kids after maybe 7pm...they are too tired to behave well; I bring crayons and quiet things to do, etc. I wish more parents would. But then, I am 3rd generation removed from 1900's because neither my mother nor grandmother jumped right into having children, so my values are "less progressed" than most of my peers.

I completely understand not wanting children around 24/7...I have 2 and love them but frankly could never be a SAHM - I have to work my full 8's lol.

Dez

Dez - I see you are a newbie. As many here know, I live right next door to an elementary school. I cannot begin to tell you the problems I have with parents. They park blocking my driveway and refuse to move, they have parked on my parkway at an angle with all 4 wheels on the grass, they have walked through my gardens, they have had picnics on my lawn, before we had the fence up for the dog I used to find toddlers toddling around between my house and the fence, they stand and watch as their children rip branches off my trees, they stand and talk to their friends on my lawn, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

We have a drop-off zone to "alleviate" this problem. No one knows how to use it. They don't drive through, they let their kids out at the front and then zip back into traffic, practically causing accidents.

Because of this the village put up a NO Parking sign in front of my house. There is one lady who parks there religiously every day. I am thisclose to going out and just asking her just out of curiosity why she parks there (and of course, the police don't enforce the no parking.)

All along the block we have had to put railroad ties and paving stones along our parkways if we want to keep grass there. The neighbors who don't have anything out have giant mud holes for parkways.

And we live in a rich, upscale suburb!

And apparently, (now I've only heard this through the neighborhood grapevine) there is a group of parents who hate me and call me the crazy lady and do things on purpose to aggravate me. They say they are going to call the police with false reports of things like I put spikes in my parkway and ruined all their tires, etc.

Last year the fence was down because the school was putting up a new fence, and parents would just stand 3 feet from me and watch me garden. I said, "can I help you?" and they said no and kept staring. I finally got rid of them by staring right back.

And when they pick their kids up from kindergarten, they sit with them in the playground and let them tease my dogs. A few weeks ago my dog got kicked in the face by kids kicking the fence.

Well, now I have a job at Village Hall working for the cable station, so maybe now that I work for the village the police may actually patrol and give people tickets.

Friday is the last day of school. I am thinking of treating myself to pizza. Unfortunately, I won't be home to see the show (last year was the year that they all parked on my parkway and there were a dozen kids and their parents eating a picnic lunch on my front lawn.)

Sorry for the ramble, but this is a very sore subject for me, and a BIG reason why I don't want kids. Why on earth would I want to associate with jerks like this all the time?

OMG ln- I'm surprised you haven't gone postal by now! I think I would have!

This is one of my biggest objections to becoming a parent: being forced to deal with obnoxious parents. I completely agree with you, Dez. Adults are completely entitled and out of control, so it's no surprise that their kids are too. As a kid, I wasn't allowed to run wild in restaurants - even "family friendly" ones. I was expected to behave in public.

This is a big issue among my friends with kids - i.e. friends who buck the trend and insist that their kids behave. It's really challenging for them to discipline their kids while so many obnoxious parents just let their kids do whatever.

I think I'd lose my mind if I had to interact with some of these horrible parents.

I don't even know what to say.
How unbearable and unjust for you and your family.
I'm so sorry you have to live through this.

Like I've mentionned in my earliest thread, my parents rarely took my brother or I to "grown up" events (weddings, funerals, parties) and when they did, boy did we have to behave! I remember once leaving the table at a restaurant, out of defiance, and did I ever get it! My father pulled me out of the restaurant and lectured me in the parking lot!
Were my parents abusive and out of place? No, I only remember a loving childhood based on respect: for us, for our parents, and for others around us.

Same here! I sincerely sympathize Ingilbert. That sucks.

We used to live next to a high school, and were subjected to some really obnoxious behavior from parents and kids. Parents often ignore traffic laws, parking where they shouldn't, running stop signs because they're late, etc. I can't count the times I've seen women in minivans full of kids breezing through stop signs. Entitlement!!

The thing that annoyed me the most living there though was the littering. We stopped bothering to plant anything in our front yard because they just dumped so much trash there as they walked by. It was disgusting. I never littered as a teen, so just can't understand how anyone could be so lazy and careless, regardless of age.

We finally just moved, and it was a huge relief. I recommend it!! Though I know it can be hard...we pay 10x times more property tax now...but it's worth it to me. I'll work extra hours to not have to be around the 3:00 parade.

Dez, Ingilbert: You hit the nail right on the head!! I am of the opinion that kids are out of control nowdays (OK, not ALL the kids, but MOST of them, anyway), mostly because their 'parents' have either forgotten to do their job, or are just plain lazy and ignorant to do it right. I own a sub-shop and I could fill pages and pages with examples of parents just not caring, not only about how their kids behave, but about what they eat, what they drink, etc.. There's the teenage mother who bought a children's sandwich (including chips and a drink) for an infant (the baby didn't even walk yet. Did she ever hear of 'baby food'?), or the father that bought a 4 or 5-year old girl a bag of Doritos Habanero (I am Mexican, and I can't even eat those. They are just too spicy!!) just because she asked for them, eventhough, I warned him that they might be too hot for her. He just said: 'Nah, let her have them'! Just last night, a lady walked in with a little girl in tow (she could not have been more than 4 years old). The mother just yelled and screamed at her because she could not make up her mind about whether the little girl wanted white or wheat bread on her sandwich!!!..Excuse me, but isn't your job to help her make those decisions (and others!) when she is only 4???? I almost kicked her out. Oh, and don't even get me started about my teenage employees!! That's another topic all in itself!! Let me just say that if I had ever any doubts about being CF, having so much contact with these new generations has wiped out completely all of those (very few) doubts!!

Children's behavior is just a reflection of the good/bad job the parents are doing. Plain and simple.

Things are s-l-o-w-l-y getting better, but it took several neighbors (myself included) to pretty much throw a fit to the village. Now they are coming up with all these solutions, but they don't fix the problem, they just create new ones. But, the school won't cooperate like we think they should, so the village really is doing everything it can to help us. I feel bad for the guy.

Also, I now just make a point to either not be here during pick-up/drop-off or I hide in the room in the back of the house.

I wish we COULD afford to move somewhere nice. We squeak by as it is right now, though. But we do have dreams of living in a nice Victorian closer to the downtown area but away from schools.

We found some really nice ones. They're probably only $1.5 million. :-)

Thats terrible Ingilbert, but I know just what you're talking about. My daughter is only 4 so my days of school are coming...maybe. My mom already does the school thing for my nephews, so she'll probably just include my daughter thank god, lol.

I've never understood the parents at these schools. They are so completely rude and selfish, like they are the only ones there who want to get home after. But the things they have done to you are totally uncalled for. I was taught to be very respectful of anothers property...I am 32 and to this day I cannot walk across someone else's lawn, talk about ingrained habit.

Good luck, hopefully the new rules will help, and with more neightbors making a stink it will get better I think.

Dez

It's not all parents, I will admit that there are many parents at that school that I know who are very respectful. But, unfortunately it's the ones who are rude that stick out to all the neighbors, and the good parents are going to suffer with the new rules because of the bad ones. If I was a good parent, then, I'd get my butt to a PTA meeting and give the bad parents a piece of my mind.

There's two proponets to the "parents club", and its why we can't bring those things up in places like PTA meetings, or even parks.

The first group is like me: We watch our kids, we don't let them beat the [censored] out of the other kids, we don't let our kids cut in line, we expect them to stay close, etc.

The second group isn't: They sit on the park bench while their little darlings beat up the other kids, they joke with each other while their sweeties shove the other kids out of the way, they don't seem to notice that little Johnnie ran to the other side of the park where he can throw rocks at the little girls. Etc.

It was annoying before I was a parent, and much more so now that I am one. I hate the park, I have to play "yard duty teacher" the whole time. I have to stay 10 steps from my daughter so I am there to insert myself when some obnoxious kid tries to push her off the slide, or whatever. And don't dare tell any other parent they're kids are brats - there isn't anything that will bring out a literal fight sooner. Their kids are angels and my kids are the devil and that is that, in the world according to them. I would have had a better chance of getting my ex to stop cussing me out...and he told me no.

On another note, here's an observation of "child obsessed" moms that occured to me at work. I am not a mom that talks all day about my kids. I have a screen saver with a couple pics of them that scroll around, I have a pic of each in a frame on my desk, and thats it. I don't wallpaper my desk with them. But everyone knows I have a baby and some days I can't walk two steps without 10 women asking me how he is, what hes doing, how hes growing, why dont I have pictures of him on me? LOL. It was worse being pregnant, everyone wanted to touch me, you have any idea how annoying that is!

Ugh. I don't fit in with that crowd.

Dez

Jayne,
I simply do not understand the complete and utter disrespect parents/adults can have nowadays but as a child/adolescent psych RN I see it all the time the apple does not fall to far from the tree.
I get the same parents you talk about in with little Jane or Johnny and they simply do not understand why the now 15 year old 6 foot 2 250 lb little ch*t is so disrespectful and oppositional. They also think we will cure him or her in the 2 1/2 days insurance allows them on our unit.

BTW...if you can afford it I would have automatic lawn sprinklers installed before start of school next year. The kind that POP up from the ground unexpectedly. I would also plant some poison ivy along that fence lol.

I am amazed you have not gone ballistic yet.

The sprinkler system! What a fab idea!
I LOVE it!!!

and the poison ivy too! (Except, what about the dogs?)

Sometimes you have to bet people at their own game...nicely!