I totaly understand the benefits and reasons why someone would want to live a life free of children, especially in the USA today where if your not making 6 figures it will really change how you live after you have them, and affect how you can provide for them.
What I don't understand is why would you get married if you knew going into it that you weren't going to have children. The only reason I could think of would be religious or tradition, but then if you were religious or traditional one of you would want kids. The dozen or so married couples I personally know who did'nt want children are niether religious or traditional, which I would assume is the case with most, since it is an unconventional choice.
It seems it would make more sense to live together as a couple but not get married. That way you avoid the risk of divorce and losing half of your net worth. Extended family would'nt be hounding you about "when are you going to have kids" or speculating about if one of you is reproductively challenged. Most religions such as catholicism will annul a marriage if there were never any kids, that could be messy.
In fact it seems like it makes more sense to get married after you have a kid, which more and more people are also doing especially as couple get into theyre 30's.

I got married because my husband is in the military and he moves a lot. If we weren't married, I would always have to change jobs and move with him at my own expense (and right now, we live in Germany, which would also involve getting a visa, German driver's license, and work permit for me if we weren't married) and worry about finding a new job with benefits in every location. Now, the military pays for my move, and I get all the benefits that a military spouse is supposed to get. I even get tuition assistance and priority consideration for jobs.

So it's a practical issue for us. Plus, we wanted assurance that we could absolutely be together. If we hadn't gotten married, I have no doubt that we'd probably not be together now because I don't think we could have withstood several years of a trans-atlantic relationship, despite how much we love each other.

It was also nice to be able to make that commitment in front of friends and family and be able to show them how much we love each other.

Why people still assume that the sole purpose of marriage is procreation is beyond me. This isn't the Dark Ages, where people only married for that reason and not because of love.

I got married in march2006. i lived with my husband almost 2 years before we married. we got married because we wanted to be a family (my husband is 21yrs older then me and we dont want kids). even though i felt like in todays world a marrage is just a piece of paper, i didnt not feel like we were a family with out it. my husband is a great man and he loves me with or whithout the paper. but it showed are families that we are a family and were are going to stay together. I needed the commitment and sucurity even though i know he can still divoces me or cheat but i rarey think about that anymore because he is a GOOD MAN. my greatest fear is that he will die. im 26 and hes 47 and im the one in bad health!!! anyways thats my 2 cents

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

marriage is about love. we love each other and are committed to each other. we didn't get married because we wanted to have kids (although we started trying most unsuccessfully in the mid-90s to bring children into our marriage). we got married because we love each other and wanted to. and we are religious. i'm not sure why that matters though.

anyway, without a wedding ceremony, i wouldn't have gotten all that cake.

Until the modern world shifts thinking and accepts domestic partnerships or civil unions as legally binding, marriage is the only route to shared benefits for the majority.

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

"The only reason I could think of would be religious or tradition, but then if you were religious or traditional one of you would want kids."

To that I say: which religion or tradition do you mean?

It is true that many major religions encourage couples to marry and/or have kids. However, some spiritual paths -- my own included -- say that it is just wrong to bring another life into this overpopulated, scary world of ours. (Why subject yet another life to all that suffering?)

My husband and I married for spiritual, not religious, reasons. We believe there is a special bond in marriage, something beyond the limits of ordinary relationships. (This also has to do with our spiritual path.) It is actually the concept of two people becoming one (some people call it becoming "one flesh").

We do not believe in divorce. We're okay with other people doing it, and we'll never try to force our beliefs when it comes to someone else's life choices. However, we do not believe in divorce for us because spiritually, we are bound in a way that cannot be broken. So, avoiding marriage to avoid material losses from divorce is not an issue with us. Besides...I also believe if you do something big like marriage, you should be very careful and patient and get it right the first time, so you don't get yourself into a messy situation later. (Don't take this the wrong way. Sometimes things happen that are beyond your control. Let me be very clear that if there is an abuse situation, you should get out of the relationship.)

I suppose all of that aside, we really married because we wanted to, just as we don't have kids because we don't want to, and we follow our spiritual path because we want to. It is difficult to explain human decisions sometimes, aside from saying "this is what's right for me."

I still think it's fine for people to be together and not marry if that's what they want. I sure wish they would let same-sex couples marry, though (in most of America, this is not allowed). I feel very fortunate that I had a choice in the matter when it comes to being married; I feel bad for everyone out there who has no choice, from same-sex couples here to arranged/forced marriages across the world.

Anyway, interesting topic, and quite a lively conversation! I think it is good to look at our reasons for our lifestyles...it is interesting to find these things out, and at a personal level, I think it helps many of us to reaffirm our decisions about our lives.

One last thing -- if you live together as a couple for any length of time, whether you have kids or not, your extended family *will* hound you about when you're going to get married. I lived with my husband for quite a while before we got married.

I think extended family will just bug you about anything and everything. That's what they are there for <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

People who see themselves as potential in-laws will comment just as actual in-laws do. Mine did. Drove me nuts before we married. My own mother never said a word about children or any other issue--just left it up to us. Of course, she knew we were being hounded by the opposition and may have felt they were doing a good enough job for everyone.

My husband and I were together for several years and neither of our families ever bugged us about marriage, just like they don't bug us now about kids. We got married because we love each other and we want to spend the rest of our lives together and because we wanted to make that official commitment to each other. I suppose "tradition" played a big part in that because obviously you don't need a ceremony to make an emotional commitment to one other (and children were never on the agenda). And then there's all the practical stuff about benefits, etc. that Lynn mentioned.

I also had a kick a** wedding: beautiful setting, fabulous food, open bar, friends & family, and I looked like a serious hottie in my dress <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I wanted that "ooh" and "aah" moment when I came down the aisle, the memories of "you may kiss the bride" and that first dance. It was a great party and celebration of our relationship.

Post deleted by WaterLily3422

Is this post serious??? Please say no.

Extended family would'nt be hounding you about "when are you going to have kids" or speculating about if one of you is reproductively challenged

And if you aren't married, family hounds you about when are you getting married. You just trade one for another.

Marriage has a lot of legal benefits that have nothing to do with love. That's half the reason the push for gay marriage is so big. Without that little piece of paper, inheritance can be challenged, hospital visitation rights are nonexistant, there's no legal protection if you split up...among other things.

I'd wonder more about people who get married for the sole sake of having children. Marriage should be about spending your life with the person you love, not popping 'em out.


anyway, without a wedding ceremony, i wouldn't have gotten all that cake.

Sure you can. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm half-serious when I tell my mom I'm going to have a non-wedding with a non-wedding cake. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Why should the people getting married get all the silverware and other household items while I have to buy it all myself? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

katja,
be sure to have the non-wedding shower too. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> i was thinking the same thing about marriages. what about health insurance? you can't just put your girlfriend or boyfriend on your health insurance. it's spouse and/or family. there are so many reasons to get married. and love is a big one. but you're right. there are many others.

oh, and the weird thing on our end is family never bugged us about having kids. even when they didn't know we were trying and having infertility problems. they never really asked. it eventually came out though. the people who bugged us the most were "friends" and acquaintances.

[color:"darkgreen"] Your lucky that family hasn't bugged you, Holly. [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/irish.gif" alt="" />

Oh yes, ANOTHER reason to get married...all the gifts and cold hard cash! We made out like bandits at our wedding. Do you get presents if you renew your vows?

I KID!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Marriage is giving legal shape to a relationship. the way society is moving now, there is no difference left other than legality.

At my company, gay couples can register a same sex couple and claim a Domestic Partnership and get most of the benefits that married couples do, but unmarried opposite sex couples cannot. That's not why my husband and I got married, but I always thought it was unfair that opposite sex unmarried couples have no opportunity for shared benefits. I am totally fine with gay couples having those benefits, but I felt that opposite sex couples should have the same option, as long as they were in a committed relationship (I can understand they can't have people changing their domestic partner weekly, but there are requirements that gay couples have to meet to claim a domestic partnership, which they could also extend to opposite sex couples.) My company also thinks that women should pay for their own birth control, but that's another bucket of fish entirely (they cover pregancy and childbirth and the resulting child's medical though).

Hi, I'm new to the forums, but I've been reading them. I probably belong in the Single forum, but I think this one suits me better as I decided 5 years ago to be childfree forever.

I've got to say that I, for one, am not entirely sold on the idea of marriage. I may only be 20, and I haven't ruled marriage out completely (but I have with kids!!) and so I just go by if it happens, it happens - but I'm not pushing for it. I suppose I'm just sort of on the fence about marriage in general. I am going to my friend's wedding reception next week (she's my age) and she's already got it mapped out. They'll start having kids in 2009 - on the 3 year plan. She has never haranged me about my ambivalence toward marriage and my firm stance on not having kids - but I'm guessing that I'm going to be getting A LOT of that a little later on from my parents, sister and friends...I found it funny though that when my roommate brought up me finding a rich husband, I said "I don't really want to get married." Her response: "I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that."

While I laugh about stuff like that, it annoys me that people respond like that and don't accept my choices as valid ones. I don't say things like that at people who want to get married, or want to have children. I suppose it just goes to show the difference in our acceptance of other people who are different than we are.

Sorry for the long post, I just had to get that out! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to the forums, amp_espi_wri! (does that stand for something?)

I understand where you're coming from. I decided to marry young because it's what I've always wanted, and I decided I never want kids, and I get a lot of condescending [censored] for both of these things. Why do people think it's any of their business?

Only you know what will make you happy. That's why you shouldn't judge someone else's life decisions -- they're just doing what makes them happy. (Except in the case of having kids, which is a delusion of happiness; see my "time article" post. Ha ha ha.)

I have a sister that's your age and she has had talks with me about not getting married. I don't think she's made a firm decision about it, but her feelings are crystal clear in my eyes -- she just doesn't want that kind of commitment, and that's just fine. It's similar with my mom -- she's not remarrying. She's single and enjoying it.

Anyway, I accept your choices as valid, and despite the "married no kids" title of the forum, we've had a lot of single posters here as well. So, welcome, and we're glad to have you! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and if you're prospective husband/wife is loaded then even better.

It always amazes me that people feel that they have only Correct lifestyle" e.g.you get married, you have kids. That is ridiculous.

Marriage, if you want it, is between two people, period.

I know a few couples who have children and regret it very much. They feel that they ceased to exist as a person and as a couple. If you want to be child-free, I support your decision all the way.

If others cannot understand or support your decision, then they don't deserve your time and friendship. No one has the right to tell you how to live your life.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I really enjoy all the support and helpful comments on this forum - you all are so nice! It's nice to know I'll have quick and thoughtful comebacks to those snide remarks about my choices. Oh, and the amp_espi_wri does stand for something, in three parts - my initials, the beginning of my favorite sounding word: espionage, and the beginning of what I'm going to be : a writer!

[color:"darkgreen"] I've seen many of people have kids and then they are very severely miserable. My in-laws, for example. [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/irish.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[color:"darkgreen"]And of course they try to conform you, you know. [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/irish.gif" alt="" />

I'm getting married because marriage is not about children. Marriage is about a partnership. Yes, one outcome of that partnership could possibly be children - but it's not a requirment.
I'm getting married because I wish to act as a leaning shoulder, a rock and a support for my fiance. I want to help him when he's hurting, comfort him when he's sad and support him in all of his dreams. I want to experience the beauties and hardships of life with him by my side because he gives me strength to face the day <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] What's worse is when it's your family, ya know.[/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] That's why *I* got married! Congrats on getting married btw! [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/fish.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] That's why *I* got married! Congrats on getting married btw! [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/fish.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it. <img src="/images/graemlins/heart.gif" alt="" />

Well, here in Ireland co-habiting couples don't have any inheritance rights. So if you want to be sure you're taken care of if one of you dies, you have to get married.
Doesn't sound very romantic, does it?
For myself, my husband and i got married because we were in love and wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. We eloped, so we didn't even want the big wedding thing.
If i were doing it over again, i might not get married, but just make sure we were legally taken care of in the event of death. Since we did, it's been one question after another from relatives and strangers: When are you going to buy a house? When are you going to have kids? Aren't you able to have kids? What does your husband think about the fact that you don't want to have kids?
On and on and on...... Funnily enough, before we got married, they would ask when we were going to give everybody 'a day out' (wedding). I guess there'll always be questions.

I think there are always going to be questions like that. I have an uncle who, as soon as I started dating my ex, began asking when I would give him a wedding to go to. I knew he was kidding, as he's a habitual teaser but I've learnt that you're always going to have someone asking you some question when it comes to just about anything in life. When I was in college, it was, "So when are you going to graduate? What are you going to do after graduation? Why did you even go to school?"
As soon as my fiance and I got engaged, my mother asked, "So when are you getting married? Where are you going to live?" I was like, "Um... I haven't a clue?"

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think there are always going to be questions like that. I have an uncle who, as soon as I started dating my ex, began asking when I would give him a wedding to go to. I knew he was kidding, as he's a habitual teaser but I've learnt that you're always going to have someone asking you some question when it comes to just about anything in life. When I was in college, it was, "So when are you going to graduate? What are you going to do after graduation? Why did you even go to school?"
As soon as my fiance and I got engaged, my mother asked, "So when are you getting married? Where are you going to live?" I was like, "Um... I haven't a clue?" [/quote]

Questions from relatives are tough, because there's sort of an expectation of candor there. However, from strangers, it's a totally different thing. Take a page out of the Miss Manners school. If asked "When are you having kids?" by a stranger or an acquaintance, I always like to answer "My, that's a really personal question". If they persist, just repeat yourself --- after all, that's what *they're* doing. The Victorians had it right about a few things, and the refusal to stoop to the "instant intimacy" we sometimes expect of each other these days was one of 'em, IMO.

When I was in my 20s and in a live-in relationship, then later married to the same guy, there were a lot of questions asked of me about kids (primarily by moms, aunts, and grandmothers of private flute students of mine). As I remained married through my mid-30s, the questions *did* drop off. I had to be tactful, of course, as these people were my customers. Now that I'm engaged again at 40 (hubby-to-be is 44, snipped, and the step-dad of a 24-year-old daughter; even though she's not his biological child and he didn't formally adopt her, he did raise her jointly with his ex-wife since she was 4 years old), there haven't been any questions, either. <grin>

If the person asking the questions is a complete stranger you're not likely to see again, try the following:

Stranger: "So, when are you gonna have kids?"

Response: "When you get some manners?"

or

"Interesting question. How much money did you make last year?"

or

"Great question. What's your favorite sexual position?"

The last two are great because they are verrrrrry personal questions as well, and drive home the fact that the kid question is also personal and shouldn't be asked cavalierly, PERIOD.

The first one is just, well....snarky. Never quite had the guts to try it myself.

If the question comes from an acquaintance who promises to become a friend, or is phrased more along the lines of "*Are* you planning on having kids?", then there's a wonderful opening to discuss it all far more rationally. It's posed as a true question, setting up the kid vs. no kid question as a true choice (which of course we all know it is), vs. the first phrasing of "WHEN", which has the tone of "Why aren't you with the program yet?" Many of my pals, childed and not, have posed the question and phrased it this way. The ensuing conversations were wonderful.

Elise

Nonmarried couples do not have the same legal rights as married couples. I plan to marry at least once in my life.
Why not find that special one so I can annoy him for the rest of his life (or for a couple of months anyway)

[color:"blue"] I hate how if you are unable to have kids, peole either look down upon or pity you. I'll be thinking that God made me this way, for a specific reason and noone is to argue with God. [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/wall.gif" alt="" />

Guess me and the SO are lucky. We just don't get these questions. Not that we'd mind if did.

We've no intention of marrying. We don't see the benefit of it--especially tax wise.

"I'm getting married because I wish to act as a leaning shoulder, a rock and a support for my fiance. I want to help him when he's hurting, comfort him when he's sad and support him in all of his dreams. I want to experience the beauties and hardships of life with him by my side because he gives me strength to face the day."

PepeluTivursky, that's beautiful! <img src="/images/graemlins/heart.gif" alt="" />

Howdy from your recently-married, childfree neighbor in Indiana. {{waves hello}}

Plus you get presents. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Have a "committment" party--you still get presents.

Our property was purchased under a partnership agreement--sort of like buying a business. One dies, it goes to the other partner or whomever we've directed in our wills to give it to. No biggie. Same with the rest of the things we'd plop into a will-stock shares, bank balances, whatever. As long as we keep the wills up to date, we're good.

Each of us also has limited power of attorney over the other--in case of things like medical problems (my accident), infirmity, etc., we can make decisions for one another. And we've taken care of all of the advanced directives, DNR, etc. should there be something life threatening.

Insurance is taken care of by our employers.

So, as long as we're both making less than $100K a year we're better off tax wise as singletons.

For us, marriage would be just a piece of paper--we already have the commitment. And we don't have kids to protect.

True...although I very much enjoyed my wedding and the ceremony of it all....and I don't know if my parents would have been so willing to shell out the big bucks for a commitment party. You're definitely right in that it makes no difference in respect to your level of commitment to each other; my husband's and my relationship stayed exactly the same (it took me about a year to stop calling him my boyfriend) and that's because we had already made the emotional commitment to each other a long time before. It sounds like you and your SO are being very practical and have covered all your bases so that you don't have the problems that other nonmarried couples face, but I like my traditional marriage.

[color:"purple"] You can always get a haircut or dye job and peole might notice it. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

I was married once & have no intention of doing it again. Everything's in my name only & it's going to stay that way. My sister is in my will just because she's my sister, but also because I know she will take in my dogs. I'm probably going to do a trust fund so the state can't touch anything. And I'm going to do a living will to give her power there too. I do have a boarder & he does the things around the house that need to be done. Plus he & the dogs love each other. We are also best friends. I'm very non-traditional so getting married again doesn't appeal to me. Also the mentioned tax benefit for being single too. As someone mentioned too, you probably already know in your gut what you want. Just listen to it. I know any time I've gone against my gut feeling it's always been wrong. So I don't do it any more.

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It's a pleasure to meet you!

[color:"blue"] Funny and sad how they have a tax credit trying to encourage people to get married. No wonder there is a 50%+ divorce rate. [/color]

I'm one of those "Religious" people - I'm a Christian - and so marriage is not a contract, it's an unbreakable covenant. Not that that's all that true anymore, but it's true for me. My husband and I are better together than each one is individually, so marriage is the route we took. The day-in-day-out challenges (I'm ADD and my husband suffers from depression - now THAT's a combination!) force us to deal with issues head on because divorce isn't an option for us - by choice. It's made us better people, and created a wonderfully safe haven for us to live out our storms in. I love being married!

Darlene

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Exactly, Freespirit. I'll keep my infertility, much like I've said it another posting. Getting help with infertility or adopting costs too much anyways.[/color]

[color:"blue"] I'm not religious, but I'm a christian. I got married b/c that's what I wanted, but I'm not going to judge those who do not. [/color]

I don't know about every state, but if you live with someone long enough, you can be considered a common law wife and still get half of everything!

My Hubby and I got married because after 4 1/2 years (yeah we rushed right in!) It seemed like the obvious next step in our relationship. and an excuse to have one heck of a party!

[color:"blue"] Let's not forget about those presents!!!! [/color]

and, you definitely have to love the presents. After 10 years we still have quite a few of them!!!!

[color:"blue"] Exactly!!! [/color] <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

After 10 years we still have quite a few of them!!!!

Yeah, but how many are still unopened? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(when I was still with the ex, I lived in mortal fear that our wedding presents--esp. since most of his relatives are well-to-do--were going to be a bunch of pointless [censored] like crystal and sterling silver and fancy-pantsy [censored] that no one ever actually USES, and that we'd be sitting there surrounded by fancy expensive china but with no practical dishes to eat off of! lol. OTOH...I prolly would've just said "hell, let's use the fancy stuff for everyday." You only live once. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Edit: are you KIDDING me? They censor out "c-r-a-p" on these boards???? How anal can you get? Hell, I said "c-r-a-p" in early elementary school, in front of my mom no less, so it clearly can't be that bad??? Come on, BellaOnline, get with the program, would you?

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] It's probally b/c of the breeders. They are probaly SO A-F-R-A-I-D that lil' junior will see the word C-R-A-P. Big deal. [/color]

After 10 years we still have quite a few of them!!!!

Yeah, but how many are still unopened?

none! Thankfully, I already had my own china (Nothing fancy) and saw no purpose for crystal and silver. I think someone gave us a waterford bowl and we use for my hubby's candy.

[color:"blue"] Did you go through a store's wedding registery? [/color]