Just a bit of fun, but an interesting topic I found in Parade Magazine back in December. Once presumed the Neanderthals died out was found to be untrue. There had been interbreeding, and in fact found in some humans today. One of these humans is Ozzy Osbourne.
LOL, that is so "funny"...

Thanks for making me chuckle today - I NEEDED IT smile
actually almost anyone of European or Middle-Eastern descent likely carries Neanderthal genes... which is a curse for those of us who are not so fond of our big honkin' Neanderthal noses! And BTW, Neanderthals had larger brains than modern humans... why they died out remains quite a mystery.

And please leave Ozzy alone... I kinda like him! wink
Between 1% and 4% of the Eurasian human genome seems to come from Neanderthals.

The genomes of non-Africans (from Europe, China and New Guinea) are closer to the Neanderthal sequence than are those from Africa.

I found all this out, but I still can't find out WHAT a Neanderthal is?

Is it like being...English, Greek? And how can there be a sub species of human? I fully understand the link with Ozzy Osborne however!
I write and edit science articles for a living, and this subject often comes up. There is no agreement among scientists on Neanderthal's exact relationship to us - it was either a subspecies of Homo sapiens (our species) or a separate Homo species. However, any Homo species is considered human, such as the extinct Homo erectus or Homo habilis. There have been many species of humans over the past 2 million years or so... But only one now.
The reason that Neanderthal genes are concentrated among Europeans is that that is where they lived - in Europe and the Middle East, so that is where interbreeding occurred with modern-type humans, with whom they coexisted for thousands of years.
This is really interesting. I love pre-history and the evolutionary history of humans (and everything else as well).
It was thought that only two species of early humans had existed modern man and Neanderthals. Recently, a third species was discovered, mitochondrial DNA showed the existence of another ancient human Homo floresiensis. I love ancient history as well.
Linda, I had to laugh when I saw your post, I pondered the same thing. We're all human, all basically the same, but few people want to recognize this. We do however, grow up in different cultures, each have different parents, so this makes us wonderfully, and uniquely different. If it wasn't for this it would make for a boring world. I think social sites like Facebook might be the medium to finally bring world piece. We all get along just fine, we just don't need politicians running things wink

Though, there was at least three distinctly separate species of ancient humans. I have a sneaking feeling there is more than just evolution going on, and I am not thinking from a religious point of view.
There have been several Homo (human) species, including H. habilis, H. rudolfensis, H. erectus, and H. sapiens (and H. neanderthalensis, if one considers Neanderthals a separate species). Homo floresiensis (the "hobbits" reported in 2004) may have just been an H. erectus with some type of disease that stunted its growth... there remains much disagreement on that matter.
The trouble is, as fascinating as it is to learn the full true history of humans, I doubt if we will ever know. I truly wish, someone could invent a device where we could tune into anything we would like to know, and see history in full color from beginning to end. Some truths can be found in tests that are becoming more accurate. Where did the dinosaurs really go? Did Atlantis exist? How is it possible for several human species distinctly different from one another, all have evolved from the ape? For that matter, why didn't all apes evolve into humans? There are certainly more questions than answers. I kept my ponderings simple, but it is maddening to know I may never know the answers, maybe perhaps after physical death, then there may be clarity.
Well Diana you have certainly opened a can of worms, so to speak, while teasing Ozzy Osbourne! lol

I had no previous knowledge of what you were talking about in jest and it has now turned into a very interesting topic.

As a religious person I believe in Adam and his wife as the first humans on the planet and from them came all the humans until the end of time. I do not entertain that I came from an ape, because like you said, why are apes still not evolving into humans?

But I had no idea that humans think there were more than one species of human.

I am quite happy thinking that Adam - which means man of the earth, was the first human and we will never know how many humans will have existed on earth by the time it all ends here.

I am going to Google this as I want to be able to keep up with this conversation. Its interesting to think, that humans think, that some of us are made inferior to others. Never a notion I have ever considered. All men/women made equal as far as I am concerned.

So thanks Angela for giving us the names of my superior or inferior ancestors. Thank God for Google is all I can say or I would never be able to look all this up in books!

I wonder if J. R. R. Tolkien knew about Homo floresiensis when he wrote The Hobbit?
Linda, Google is wonderful isn't it. If anything comes to mind, it can quickly be Googled and have instant results. Sometimes I have to dig a while to get a general consensus but the Internet is great.

I am a fairly religious person as well and believe in creation. I don't believe we evolved from apes, if something started an evolutionary process that drastic to change an ape from ape to human, why didn't they all evolve. That bugs me. I do know that individual animals including humans evolve within their own species (modern updates; so forth).

But, this brings us full circles, there was no doubt creation, we started with a man and a women, Adam and Eve, how did we end up with genetically different forms of humans? Just something that crept into my head and is bugging me.
My sister said to me the other day in a kinda telling offy way...

"You Google everything!" To which I could only reply, "Why not?" She glared at me lol.

But this has caught my attention and I am on a mission now. I have put the names of the different homo sapiens into a word pad and I am going to work through them. Will let you know what I find. Bugging me too now!
Figured it might, please let me know what you come up with. The proverbial Creation vs Evolution. A mixture of the both, quite possible, after all we are trying to teach computers to learn. How could more than one species of human come from a single couple. This is way out there...did God start this scenario over more than once? I am not blaspheming just inquisitive.

I have woke up in the middle of the night and have gotten up to Google something. I use other search engines as well, depends on if I am looking for a document or what ever else I am looking for.
My points of view:

I believe it is all laid out in the Akashic records - the books on the astral plane with our history and scientific data all set up and ready to be devulged as we evolve to understand it. As far as different strains of humans interbreeding we see this example in the natural world all the time, and our bodies are of nature. When we are born we bring in our mind and soul and when we leave take our mind and soul along for the next portion of development. We seem to be talking about evolution of the human body rather than the mind and soul that enliven it.

Ahh..the DNA of the universe, where everything is recorded. I believe we are all, and I do mean all interlinked and the Akashic records are probable. The body is nothing but a container to bring our soul through the physical plain of existence. Why did our souls, or spiritual essence have to have physical form? To endure, love, hate, pain, laughter, all the things we couldn't experience without physical form.

My question, where did all the DNA different forms of ancient humans come from? Neither evolution or creation answers this question.
Okay well I have read enough to give you my opinion, for that is all it can be.

These skeletons, that men have found over the years which were distributed world wide, have been named by men, humans. Looking at the pictures they are all like identi-kits, it is just what someone else, another human, has presumed these people looked like in the past. It is speculation not fact. Yes some people are hairier than others, some of us are even covered in hair, (Google it), some of us are totally smooth and hairless, some of us are albino. But that doesn't make me a sub species!

So, you said it, evolution in the species, not cross evolution. If you look at human beings today and the diverse looks some of us have, we all look different. Some even look Neanderthal. Line us all up and find one that looks exactly (except for twins and family members) the same.

I look nothing like a person from China or Africa or India, but I do look similar to people who live in Germany, Holland, America. We are all different colours and all different heights and all different sizes, we all speak different languages and eat different foods. And for me that is the wonder of God.

I am sure God says 'be' and it is, I am sure creation of a man and a woman has produced every single human being that is to live because I believe in the story of creation.

Some tell me man made religion. I disagree. Man made the theory of evolution to cover his fears of ignorance of the truth. I am no more a monkey than a monkey is a fish. Yet we are all made of the earth we walk upon.

There are 92 elements in the universe and we are made up of them, the Big Bang that God created was for a reason and we are it.

The story of creation is far more than Adam and his wife. The whole reason why we are here, the Big Bang and everything is explainable. But it takes the belief in God and the story of creation to understand it.

So I am no more convinced of evolution between species and even more convinced of the creation of God. As I said my opinion and no amount of Googling is going to change my mind.

Susan, do you believe it is possible for anybody, currently, to access the archive of the soul; Akashic records? Or are the people acknowledging they can full of poppycock. Is this the Book of Judgment?
Originally Posted By: Diana-Exotic Pets Editor

My question, where did all the DNA different forms of ancient humans come from? Neither evolution or creation answers this question.

Which different forms of DNA?

Must Google Akashic records.
There are 92 elements in the universe and we are made up of them, the Big Bang that God created was for a reason and we are it

Linda, I believe you gave me the best argument you could, in fact I didn't need the argument to believe it because I had already known that God used evolution for his grand creation. Though, not from ape, nor fish. The elements are building blocks, DNA the map, building upon a firm foundation forever changing - never stagnant.

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Yes totally agree, forever changing - never stagnant.
I was searching my brain for a specific word that means forever changing, I'll be darned if I can find it. More coffee smile
Akashic records - collective thought, collective memory, collective dna?

God taught Adam the name of all things then presented them to the angels saying, 'Give me the names of these if you are right.'

God taught the first man everything humanity would need to know, it comes to us through inspiration from God.

We are all able to tap into this collective knowledge but it is up to God whom He inspires.

My thoughts.

Also the scriptures tell us that the angels keep record books of our every moments and these are with God. We are given them on the Day of Judgement.
A whole lot of collecting if you ask me computer It has been a long while since I read Genesis but wasn't this knowledge taken from Adam when he was kicked from the garden?

This would explain why we "know" some things we couldn't possibly know, but how do we catch glimpses of the future? I know it is possible, because it has happened to me - concerning my son's death. Is it multiple times lines? Even the future is forever fluid - how about the past?
Diana, I think the word for ever changing is evolving.

Yes, I think one way we gain insight into the Akashic records is during deep meditation - keep your journal handy smile
I also believe the universe is teaming with human-type life - souls with minds inhabiting bodies.
Susan, I think I need to get to know you a whole lot better smile
I love getting to know our BellaOnline family!
We do have a very special family, and it is every bit family.
Everyone has added very thought-provoking postings on this subject. It is encouraging to see such thinking going on!

To clarify one thing... no one says that humans evolved from apes. Rather, humans and apes have both evolved from a common primate ancestor over the past 6 million years or so.

As someone with a biology degree who works in the general field of science, I cannot accept Adam or Eve or Biblical genesis. However, I am something of a heretic among my scientific peers, because I do not blindly accept Darwinian evolution either (ie, that random mutations and natural selection result in evolution of one species to another).

Rather, I subscribe to the idea of Intelligent Design... I believe that a supernatural divine force (which I prefer to call The Goddess) purposefully guides evolution as She wishes. Thus, evolution among species has occurred since Earth was formed 4.6 billion years ago, but it has been divinely guided. That's what I believe. But you will be hard-pressed to find many other biologists who believe that... they have all been brain-washed.

I think for myself; I do not blindly follow the scientific establishment (which is generally corrupt and influenced by money and politics, like most establishments).
Alicia, welcome to the Exotic Pets forum, I enjoyed your post a great deal, and it was certainly thought-provoking.

My forum topic �Confirmation on WHO has Neanderthal genes� started out to be an off topic bit of humor to lighten the spirit of the day. It turned out to be an enlightening experience that I have enjoyed tremendously. Our forum members have certainly caused me to consider many ideas I may not have contemplated before.

I couldn�t agree more about corruption especially the influence on science and religion. How much has been thrown away or concealed from public view because of money and politics? What discoveries were never made because the financial plug was pulled or a boulder dropped because it would have caused embarrassing consequences? The funny thing is, how brain washed scientists are, against any religious implications concerning biology or any science, is how much religion negatively influenced science. Again, because of money, politics, control, and power. Look at the number of great thinkers that had to hide in secret, how about the multitudes that died never able to make their theories public?

What has made the most sense to me is that evolutionary biology is chance with the probability of success guided by a divine force. There is just no way a big kaboom fell into a neat little package called earth, definitely not several suns and planets, not without Devine guidance.

It is a breath of fresh air to know there is a biologist that thinks for herself. Any scientist, no matter how brilliant, seems to get stuck inside a mindset where they seem to get stuck, no longer able to see beyond certain parameters or the proverbial box.

Examining evolution without a supreme force seems like it would have to be more deterministic. Your Goddess had to have a wonderful sense of humor, especially looking at the platypus.

One comment about religion, all religions over thousands of years have too many similarities not to have some element of truth. Again, money and politics all the way back to ancient times played a tremendous role in tainting the accurateness of those truths.
Originally Posted By: Diana-Exotic Pets Editor

Again, money and politics all the way back to ancient times played a tremendous role in tainting the accurateness of those truths.

Ego plays a large role in 'tainting the accurateness of those truths'. Humans are told to kill their ego in all of the scriptures. Ego leads to corruption of truth because the ego does not want to think that its way could be wrong. There can only be one correct way. Ego wants it to be its way.

Adam was given the names of everything when he was sent down to Earth as a human.
Ego is the only driving force for greed = money, politics, power, hurting others either mentally or physically. I am curious, give me some direction to any Sacred book on the subject of Ego.

Feeding Live Prey to Exotic Pets

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The Quran

2:54 Recall that Moses said to his people, 'O my people, you have wronged your souls by worshiping the calf. You must repent to the Creator. You shall kill your egos. This is better for you in the sight of your Creator.' He did redeem you. He is the Redeemer, Most Merciful.

This story is in the Bible too.

38:26 O David, we have made you a ruler on earth. Therefore, you shall judge among the people equitably, do not follow your personal opinion, lest it diverts you from the way of God. Surely those who stray off the way of God incur sever retribution for forgetting the Day of Reckoning.

Our own personal opinion can lead us into a lot of trouble. It is the ego, our own personal opinion of Satan, that got us here in the first place.

Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): For He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

I just recently started on the Qur�an, is there a Surah similar to the Bible's Revelations?

I intend on making it through all Holy books for all religions during my lifetime. It amazes me the similarities, the Qur�an appears to be freer from impurities.
I wonder if many scientists fear God because he is unseen? Didn't stop them from splitting the first atom, not knowing if it would cause a domino effect
The Quran states that it confirms and supersedes all the previous scriptures. All the way through the Quran it tells us about the things in Revelations. It tells us how we got here, where we were before we came here, where we are going after we leave here and why we are here. It tells us how the world will end and what happens to us when it does.

The Quran is a book. It needs to be read from chapter 1 to chapter 114 to understand its message. Most people just read a couple of chapters or memorise a few verses, but that is not how it is supposed to be read.

Scientists have very big egos and they cannot see beyond them. They think they are right and religion is wrong and yes, the unseen scares them. What they do in Switzerland with the Hadron Collider is unethical because if goes something wrong they will not be able to correct it and we will all suffer from their mistake. Egomanics.

Why don't they use the money they waste on atom splitting and space flights to feed the humans who are hungry on this planet. Science is not going to save us from the end of the world.
Demonizing science. Interesting!
Physics, chemistry, biology, all belong to God not man, man did not create them. no one is demonising science just scientists lol

Science is great, scientist think they are gods.
Not demonizing science I don't see science as evil, but I do believe there is connection between science and God and some scientist can't see beyond their noses. Or, science is hindered or altered because of greed, money and politics. No science isn't evil just the people that sometimes investigate the very bases of the atom or antimatter without learning the ramifications first. Read the whole thread to get an understand how the conversation progressed. I whole heartily believe/stand behind in science but that doesn't stop me from believing in a supreme being also.
Linda, you explained that a whole lot better than I did. Just woke up, have to investigate my coffee cup smile
Hi Diana and Linda,

Just wondering, then, who "created" evolutionary science lol?- the original focus of this thread that I had read in its entirety.
Actually the thread started as a ha ha to lighten everyone spirits during a dark time in history. Where would we be without science or a Supreme being - surely many people would not be alive today, or the number that died because of science - atomic bombs, atomic testing, human subject testing. Having taken a number of science courses in college; physics, biology, astronomy, physical science, oh and that awful chemistry class lol, though I majored in social sciences. I also enjoyed anthropology and archeology. Archaeological evidence of many Sacred books including the Holy Bible and Qur�an is fascinating. I certainly have nothing against science, just scientist that cover things up, or are deceitful because of politics. Frankly, I am not even sure what your point is. Or, what you have against any of the thread, it is a simple comparison and fun investigation of science and religion. Perhaps you'd like to turn to Theology to answer your question, or maybe Carl Zimmer. You could investigate Sociobiology. Read some of the works of evolutionary geneticists. That should hopefully give you a basic background evolutionary science. Some eye opening sources would be to compare the works between Charles Darwin (natural selection) and Jerry Coyne. My only point is that neither science nor religion can stand alone. Frankly, after having two types of cancer, with 7 reoccurrences I doubt if I would be alive today without science and God.
In regards to the questions on this topic about why didn't all apes evolve into humans... Well, birds evolved from dinosaur-type creatures but then not all of those reptiles evolved into birds. The Tuatara, which is a New Zealand native lizard, has been around since the dinosaurs, and still looks the same now as it did then and did not evolve into a bird species. There is mathematical randomness in evolution, which is necessary in order for genes to be "fresh" so to speak. So the fact that not all apes evolved into humans just means that evolution is not a linear, one-way street. it is not proof, however, of creationist theories.
Susan, isn't the soul or mind sent to the human body so that our spirit or soul evolves, hopefully in the right direction? By experiencing life in human form, something we would be unable to do as a spirit? I wonder if what I see as a "thin veil" is Akashic records. However, it doesn't explain future events.

I also believe the universe is teaming with human-type life - souls with minds inhabiting bodies.
I don't think there is even a remote possibility that that it isn't. The only way possible, that life isn't somewhere other than earth, is that it was chaos, a big accident, that created life. I find that a bit far fetched.
Posted By: Calla Re: Confirmation on WHO has Neanderthal genes - 04/01/11 06:45 PM
OMG interesting reading though I don't think I want to touch this one with a ten foot pole. You all brought up some real interesting points. Osborne? lol
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