BellaOnline Forums Home and Garden Exotic Pets Creation Versus Evolution can be answered simply

At least in my mind I can answer this with a simple question. What came first the chicken or the egg? An egg simply would not hatch if placed on the cold hard ground. So, God or a supreme being, created the chicken or, if you will, the parent. The chicken needs to keep the egg warm in order for it to hatch. The eggs needs to be carefully turned.

Your thoughts?

Just one of my thoughts for the day. Stop by and find out what my exotic pet site is all about, you will be surprised! Exotic Pets

Hi Diana:

This is an ongoing discussion worldwide - my way of dealing with it personally - I know someone had to CREATE me.

Now as far as what I call that person, now that is a constantly changing discussion in my mind. Some days I am all into God when things are going right, on those days when I am being challenged - I don't try to pretend I am believing but keep in mind that I was created.

As things settle back down, I am able to go back to believing.

I try to keep my opinions to myself as some folks can get a little too aggressive with their beliefs. At my age (53), I ENJOY my peace and quiet...

Great subject as usualy - way to go!!!

I'm 50 and I enjoy my peace and quiet also

Everyone arguing over different faiths and The Scopes Trial is tiresome.

How about there is a material evolution and a spiritual evolution taking place side by side?

Cars and Space Shuttles had to come from somewhere.

How about they came as an idea -- nebulous (spirit) and then were brought into manifestation through hard work and application of spiritual/material science?

Science without God is preposterous if you reason it out.

God without Science is preposterous also.

-- Burt B.

Hi Burt
I couldn't agree more. It excites me to no end that I may know the answers to these questions someday. After my body is scattered to the winds. The answer to the question is right in-between God and science - or the processes we call science. None-the-less God, or science or both it is quite the miracle in my eyes. I love to look at the photos from the Hubble it creates such a feeling of awe.

The cold egg on the ground without a parent still concerns me though

A lot of men could take the example of the penguins. My dad was like that. Unfortunately, I became an irresponsible idiot who didn't want kids. At least I knew I was irresponsible, so I took the hit and the pain alone by not having kids.

Well, from what I've been able to gather, is that the seed idea is created in the mind of god as spirit and things spiral into manifestation based upon the law of cycles. So, as far as the chicken and the egg goes -- both the parent and the egg were created simultaneously at the beginning of manvantaras or Manu-vantaras according to the golden ratio which can last billions of years as we measure time. Then the physical laws were placed on automatic where the seed and it's ability to reproduce were set in motion. Awe is the only fear allowed in heaven, and your soul intrinsically knows that cremation is the best for the soul's progress.

This got all screwed up before the flood when advanced scientists from other systems of worlds mixed the seed of the human with the seed of the animal so all these legends of Mermaids, Minotaurs, etc., etc. actually physically existed until the flood wiped them away -- now they want to do it again. Human ears growing on the back of a mouse etc.. is all old hat... 'bout 35-50,000 years ago they were doing that.

So the edict went forth that a seed shall bear only after its own kind.

Now benign use crossbreeding as in the case of Luther A. Burbank has helped and is lawful.

But human genetic engineering is not.

This disrupts the harmony of Mother Earth, and she will have the final say in the matter.

Angela! I love it when you stop by, it always brings a smile to my face.

I have reached somewhat of a stage myself however, I am still somewhat of a "%#@ stirrer" just can't help myself Though, I am not overly aggressive, a mediocre "stirrer."

I have never put myself totally in God's hands as I should however, I have never turned away either. Even when Bobby died, I never blamed God or was mad, just a broken heart that is taking forever to heal, if it ever does.

I guess putting together creation and science is kind of a chef who orchestrates a masterful dinner from scratch. The scratch had to come from somewhere

It is interesting they are finding civilizations below the earth's surface before man existed. I think something is wrong with the date processes OR who were those people and where did they go? There is plenty of evidence that advanced societies existed long ago. Once the earth was round, orbited the sun, and then it was flat and you could plum fall right off the end into..what? Our knowledge is young.

The penguin family, how amazing they are. The perfect parents. I would consider the baby penguin a lucky little kid indeed if they didn't live in the extreme COLD! The perfect family could have lived in the tropics, but then again, without adversity, they wouldn't be the perfect family!



Did the advance scientists from other worlds use the earth as an experiment? Used the flood to wipe the slate clean to try again? There is plenty of evidence suggesting at least part of what you stated is true.

All legions came from some truth. Though I think many of the cave drawings were a combination of life from other systems and what the painters recognized or comprehended, an example horse legs were painted as horse legs because they understood horse legs. What were they actually?

We have disrupted Mother Nature enough, we are throwing our ecosystem into a tailspin. Yes they need to leave human genetic engineering alone!

I have that problem everyday... How do you deal with it?

I just try to be a better person and try to get out of inside myself. More time examining my feelings toward God or what I feel from him. I am a writer it is hard as heck to get out of inside of my head!

If my husband asks me a question about a TV show I usually answer I'm sorry but I didn't see what you are asking about.

Hard fact, to answer your question honestly I don't have a clue!

Well, opposites definitely attract because my wife and I are just the opposite of you and your husband.

I live in my mind.

Connie likes cute little funnies.

The kingdom of heaven is within you and God is the most important thing to consider, ask and listen to because Him/Her/It is the only thing that lasts forever !!!

It will be interesting to see what the children from couple of generations from now will be like.

Many generations from now, as Gods and Goddesses, would that mean we exist only a on spiritual plane? Did you ever watch Stargate, the term ascended? What does connect us to our Divinity. What is that feeling with fleeting imagines when we talk to God, or even animals. Is there a spiritual connection between everything and everybody? Not just earth bound folks.

This has given me plenty of food for thought. In fact, our conversation has given me a lot to consider. It was quite enjoyable.

The kingdom of heaven is within. That's not a concept I haven't heard of, but really never took it seriously until now. My son is gone, my folks, brother, and a long list of most everybody. Except for the initial grief I still feel like they are here, or within me.

A couple of seconds before my dad died, he looked up at something and smiled and said UP UP pointing to something he saw. I always found that interesting. He was in the hospital on monitors the nurse knew he was going and walked in the room just a minute before he went. She, my mother, and other people all witnessed this.

Burt, this is fascinating - please tell more?

Those of us who are Light workers, how can we help the well-meaning, but ignorant? And how can we protect ourselves from the 'others'?

Unfortunately, after many scuffles and grave misunderstandings of my motives... the only solution I could come up with that works for me is to withdraw from society and radiate my love and loving thoughts out into the universe.

If you look into the lives of the trainers of Madame Blavatsky Master M. and Master K.H. you will find that they both lived alone high up in the mountains where they could commune with spirit.

Study those who have gone before, and you will find your way.

Also, Saint Hilarion fled into the desert to be away from the crowds.

As a side note, I went to a Rolling Stones concert with my brother, and I could perceive how higher fallen entities were using the artists to draw and suck light out of the people. In a crowd of 50,000 I had seen only one other person who knew what I knew.

Wow, I just came back to see if Diana had responded to my post and see this conversation has been ACTIVE!!!!

Bottom line, we have to live the way our INSIDES say we should and I have learn't to "not hear" the things I don't want to deal with as we have no RIGHT to tell someone to "shut up" - although I would.

I guess with age, I have learn't the right way to handling these issues as to be honest, when I was younger - I would say "shut up" and not care how it affected the other person.

Now some folks have not learn't to respect that everyone has a right to their way of thinking as long as it does not do harm - when it does harm, then I say step up and get involved - but don't go to jail...

There are peaceful ways to get your point across.

Hey Diana, you opened up a can of worms here - AWESOME!!!

When I get quiet in the forum I am soul searching. There was a lot of food for thought yesterday. I wanted to let you know I am still here and still very fascinated. I want to check out your link.

When you said there would be no need for death is that physical or spiritual? Please explain. If there is no need for death then there would be no need to bring souls down to a physical planet to inhabit a body to learn love, pain, joy, or grief.

Hey Angela! A can of worms is not a happy can of worms unless it is opened.

Isn't this all very fascinating! I have been rereading it trying to absorb everything.

What I know and feel is true and right is all right here. Interesting. More research is necessary.

Welcome to a fascinating topic Onealone! Isn't it an interesting time for this topic to come up

Burt, how were you introduced to "Ashram?"

Every soul will return to the heart of God with or without an identity.

Souls who's rebellion is so gross that they could not balance their karma in aeons are given the mercy of the second death which is the spiritual death. Most people do not have to worry about this because most are children of God striving to become Sons and Daughters. There are however children of darkness from beneath who's only desire is to destroy souls.

The only death that is lawful for children of God is the death of the human ego which thinks it is separate from God.

Planet earth is a schoolroom but it is a very low level schoolroom akin to kindergarten -- we have lagged behind because we became vulnerable to laggard invaders 350,000 years ago who messed with our genetic code and placed animal like lust and hate within.

The struggle is for the spirit and soul to survive the density of this physical plane.

It is the most difficult plane but the most effective and rewarding because only here can you exercise complete free-will.

After the permanent Golden Age is established and death and hell are cast into the lake of sacred fire to be no more then we will enter rareified bodies in the matter universe as babies in the womb of matter to learn our lessons, but they will no longer have to be the gross lessons of war and hate and murder betrayal viciousness et. al.

We will no longer have to experience the Energy-Veil or EVIL first hand but can study it from afar like a college course as some evolutions do study us today.

They cannot get too close to get contaminated by the low vibrations of this planet.

We are in quarantine from the rest of the more evolved universe.

However, the universe is so vast as to have evolutions that are at about our current level and some behind so just like Jacob's ladder free-will determines if we go up in God Consciousness or Down in Debauchery.

You strive to go up the ladder by holding the hand of those more evolved than you e.g. The Ascended Masters and you hold the hand of those below your level of evolution as to assist.

This makes life exciting and one and infinitely new as new vistas of God-Consciousness are achieved both individually and collectively... and it goes on forever and it is pretty !!!

So, as we cry out to God and the higher powers in the universe to correct every wrong understand that we ourselfs have set up our own suffering by sending out bad energy millinia ago.

Everything returns to the sender to teach, not to punish.

There is no injustice in the universe and no evil.

Evil only exists in the consciousness that entertains it -- it is illusion it is not permanent.

Most people who are interested in the deeper mysteries of God have volunteered to come here to help from other systems of worlds.

However, in our hundreds of thousands of years of embodying upon this planet we have made karma with fallen ones -- the law forces us to confront them and them us to test us to see what we are going to do -- are we going to return evil with evil or are we going to return good to overcome the evil record between us?

We have the heaviest karma with family members.

Before we came into this embodiment, we sat before the karmic board and decided to embody in the family they suggested based upon karmic law and we went over our mission.

Unfortunately, when we get here we forget all of that because the law of forgetfulness is a law of mercy to give you a clean slate this time around.

It wouldn't be a test or a quiz if you knew the answers beforehand would it?

This world is so dense, that there are no guarantees that we are going to:

#1 Find God
#2 Remember our mission
#3 Successfully complete our mission

This may sound strange, but God Hopes for The Soul because he will not and cannot mess with his covenant of free-will.

This is the simplest trick that the enemy of your soul uses:

They make you feel so lowly that you are afraid to ask God for anything.

Yet this is the only thing that will allow God and his numberless numbers of saints, angels, Elohim, angel devas, elementals to come to your aid:

YOU MUST ASK BECAUSE FREE-WILL PREVENTS THE GOOD GUYS FROM HELPING YOU UNLESS YOU ASK BY FREE WILL !!!

There are only a handfull of tricks the fallen ones have used sucessfully over and over again because they work so well:

#1 Being discouragement.

Anyway, ask away and I will do my best by the grace of god to answer to the best of my ability...

carry on soldier..

Burt B.

I was a virgin until I was 19 yrs old because I was a very spiritual god-loving, god-fearing catholic boy -- by choice not imposed.

I went to catholic college and had the shock of my life:

#1 My roommate was gay, and I told him if he tried to cross this imaginary little white line in the middle of the floor while I was sleeping I would knock the living [censored] out of him !
#2 I lost my virginity to a chubby short girl who was a virgin too and the cheerleaders laughed at us in the courtyard.
#3 I was called upon to help one of the elderly priests to clean a storage room of his and found no less than 47 bottles of recently dated Drambuie Liquor... Empty of course.

My whole belief system was shattered and I was so distraught that the only thing I could think of to do was to go in the middle of a Michigan winter down to the lakeside where there was a large crucifix of our lord and read the bible out loud to him on my knees !!!

During Christmas break I took my girlfriend to downtown Detroit to the renaissance center and while we were there a non-assuming guy walked up to me with a little picture book and said do you mind if I talk to you about Jesus for a minute... Like a drowning man grasping for straws I said, "Sure" !!

He did the Nicodemus 'thing' and ask me to say the sinners prayer with him... way cool !! !!!

Well now, that's when the poop hit the fan !!

They invited me to a revival in NYC free of charge so I went...

First time I heard 'tounges' spooked the stew out of me...

Then lying on a floor mat in a rented auditorium with about a 1000 folks crashed all around me an incomprehensible darkness that was beyond the physical or meta-physical seized my entire being -- I could not breathe, move, or even think. I felt my soul scream out to Jesus Christ and I literally felt him come inside me and pulled me out and up out of that darkness.. I KNEW it was Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone.

Then I heard the Deified Personified Evil aka the devil's laughter enter the base of my skull ... float to my left ear from inside and leave out of my right ear...

Stuff Happens !!!!

Yikes !!!!

Talk about having the [censored] scared out of you !!!

Whoa... Nellie... whoa there...

Well a lot of stuff happened and I got tired of being called a sinner and a loser day and night... and being a pawn in this big 'Good and Evil Cosmic Chess Match' so I said chuck god and chuck the devil chuck both of you.. I'll show you what a GD Sinner is with a Capital S !!

And boy howdy did I...

I think they call it riotous living with harlots if I'm not mistaken...

Oh... my photobucket just finished uploading....

I'll Be Back... <spoken with the Schwarzenegger accent>

....

It's because the Christmas Angels are drawing closer to the planet.

Yes. Jesus Christ was born in March and not December you don't need an astronomically expensive retrogressive astrology computer to verify that...

Shortest time of the year time for records of infamy and year-end evaluations of each soul.

Point -- Counter-Point... Armageddon USA Today !!

Within.

Cheers... but not too much... hehe

Progressive Revelation from within your heart...

But it's not in the bible !!!

um... yeah it is...

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Thank you Burt for responding to my question. I appreciate and understand what you are saying. I actually came that way many years ago, and know about those things, those writings, those saints and angels. But that was in my middle years and I have moved on, and away in many respects, but my inner journey has become richer and clearer as this present life draws to a close.

I have to say that I don't believe in a 'personal God'- as described in the Bible and other Holy Books. I find this picture too small, too 'human oriented'.

My experience of the Infinite is much bigger than this. I don't even have a name for it, and even 'The Infinite' is not a worthy title. I see the Universe as the physical manifestation of whatever the energy force is that 'IS' at it's spiritual centre.

I cannot explain it, only 'sense' it - see its beauty, hear it, taste it, smell it and feel its touch and know that every minute particle in creation is a living, sentient part of IT! but I don't KNOW this, I can only say it has been my experience.

This is why, when asked 'what I know' I reply - "The only thing I dare to say I 'know', is that I know very little, and even that, through a veil of mystery, limited by the finite understanding of what is infinite and unmeasurable."

I USED to think I 'knew' things! 'The Bible said' sort of 'knowing', which was drastically flawed. this was my attitude when I was a practising Christian, a nun in a convent, then a student pastor and lay preacher, and then moving to the New Age teachings, then Buddhism - all steps on the way, and I thought I knew - but I was so presumptuous to even imagine that I possessed so much as a grain of 'truth'!

In my life experience, yesterday's truth became today's illusion of truth. I'd found a piece of a jigsaw puzzle and was foolish enough to think I was looking at the picture, but when the pieces fell into place, slowly over 60+ years, I saw something entirely different. I can't tell you what it is, because I still don't know, - because there are still so many pieces to find and to put in their correct places, and until I see the WHOLE picture - I am not going to claim knowledge. I cannot!

I pass on love, which is the only truth I can honestly say I know. I have a great fear of misleading souls, who each must find their own path. Love is a safe thing to teach, because it has to be taught by example, and that means the teacher must also be the pupil.

Blessings to you all.

Hi onealone,

I really like what you wrote.

I thought that I 'knew' stuff too...

I don't.

I don't quite have the language to express how I feel what you have written but it really speaks to my heart.

I don't want to mislead souls either.

IS IS is Isis -- as above so below...

The carnal mind tries to make things so complex.

-- Burt B.

Bless you my gentle brother. Wish we could meet for a long chat. Wouldn't that be fun! We could share thoughts for hours and never tire.

By the way, I came across a little quote tonight which reminded me of us both - fellow sufferers in this world. You may know it. Here it goes:

Conquer by accepting.
Pain, like other elemental forces in nature can be turned to use, but only if the laws of its operation are first understood and conformed to.
Those who meet it clear-eyed, and with a positive and active acceptance make a strange discovery.
They find that they achieve an enrichment and a growth of personality which makes them centres of influence and light.

(Burnet Hillman Streeter)

Gosh onealone, I wanted to take the pain of the world on me to alleviate others' pain.

It went well for a time when I was young and strong.

I felt that I died a thousand deaths over the years, and I still cannot believe that God allows me to live.

Thanks for the quote above, at least I know that there are others out there like us.

We need to help eachother.

It's almost like I don't want to be happy until every suffering part of life is free !!!

But, I have to make the best of it.

This bag of bones has to be taken care of.

That religion and sex thing really threw me for a tailspin.

Celibacy was instituted in the Catholic Faith so the wife and children of the priest would have no claim to land and property. It's not biblical.

I felt the pain you felt when you described your breakup with the love of your life -- is that some [censored] pain or what ??!!

They can keep it.

I think the whole thing is stupid -- sex, love, babies, relationships.

If your responsible, mature, know who you are and financially stable then fine -- you have something to offer a new life.

But it don't work that way...

Sex is epitome of selfishness and the end result ?

Forced Selflessness for a lifetime.

Stupid.

Empires and thousands of lives have been destroyed with the sex power and sex energy.

It was a great relief to me that reincarnation has become a personal subjective spiritually scientifically prove fact to me.

Also the idea that Jesus Christ Our LORD also reincarnated and was Abel, Joshua, King David.

Down in this bikerbeachtown of Daytona Beach -- their favorite saying is that Jesus is impotent.

Little do they know that after all that mess that the soul and lifestream of Jesus had during his reign as King David -- It was easy to drop all the women part.

Anyway Mary Magdalene is Christ Jesus's Twin Ray or Twin Flame and they are together in paradise with a love that is incomprehensible to human language.

I read a channeling from the both of them and you could feel the shift when one spoke and then the other.

All these outer human religious traditions are a crock.

It is a great sacrifice to be on this planet in physical form away from your Twin Ray or Flame.

Mother Mary made the decision to leave her Beloved Raphael to bear Christ.

Jesus had to wait until the early 20th Century for his beloved to finish up her last embodiment as Aimee Semple McPherson and you have seen the tumultuous sex and love life she had.

So it's all a bunch of BS and God wins in the end.

Cheers,
Burt B.

P.S. A chat would be wonderful

Dear Burt,

I think sometimes that things are allowed to happen in our lives so that worse things won't happen! Or that certain paths HAVE to be taken. This was true for me.

I experienced emotional arrest, and some brain damage at an early age, which of course affected every subsequent year of my life. The two years of weekly sexual abuse from people of both sexes (week days only) stuffed up my whole attitude to sex and especially men and women in general. As a result, I never had close friends of either gender - never went on a date with either gender, and never had a relationship that lasted. (In fact, never had a relationship with anyone until I was 62 years old - and that's the one I wrote poetry about) So I was unable to marry (no sex for me thank you very much!)and of course unable to have children. But this was how it HAD to be in order for me to do what I came here for. I needed no distractions or commitments that would deter me from the agreed path.

I was very angry for years about being 'cheated' of a 'normal life' - but now, as the mist clears, I can see that I probably agreed to it all. It made my path straight, and with few detours or branch-offs to take me in the wrong direction away from my purpose, which demanded single-mindedness and a hermit-type existence.

You see, this is what I am dealing with now - the ANGER I buried. That anger was NEVER taken out, or directed at others. It was all directed at myself.

I wrote this to someone, once - can't remember who or when, but it is the truth I learned about myself, and the anger I buried which became self disgust and disease:

Moral of the story, if bad things happen to you, don't plant them (bury the hurt and anger) in your soul's garden. They will take root over the years and flourish like deadly weeds in your body!


I reckon I've packed about ten lives into this one - (people look at me like I'm telling porkies when I relate the places I've been; things I've done; (different work, different leisure activities, different realities) the common response goes something like this: "Crikey, how many MORE things have you been and done - how OLD did you say you are?!"

It's sort of funny really.

But we all have those experiences which we wish we'd not done, and things we are now ashamed of. Anyone who says they haven't are either lying, or in denial, or they have not LIVED! These are our greatest learning experiences. These are the not-so-nice milestones which, to be honest, HELPED to bring us to where we are now!

These 'dark patches' also give us understanding and compassion for others who are still at that point in their learning. We know how it was, and we don't judge or condemn. We might even be able to reach out a hand to help, having 'been there - done that' and come out on the other side.

I found that pain and suffering can be transformed into something you can use to help, and even heal others. We can 'turn it around' so to speak, and use our own pain as a constructive tool for good. I learned this secret in my 50's, and even though I live with constant pain, it still inspires me to create something beautiful. Without the pain and suffering, I doubt I'd have done any of it, - I'd have been too busy doing other things!

It is possible when you transform it into love. Love that is active. We all must choose the way most suited to our talents, as the instrument, or vehicle of that love. It's different for each soul. I have a website which contains my 'creations' of love, and that raises funds for the Dog Rescue Groups to which I belong, and their works of love. My 'instrument' has always been centred in the Arts, including music, writing and art. These gifts were given to me originally to bring me through a life of trauma. Now, the gift is my means of 'giving back' to the Universe.

This has been a marathon post, but I hoped it might help others. Sometimes it is more blessed to open up and share, than to remain in one's little shell of security.

May you all be blessed!

You're story sounds very similar to mine especially about the part with the anger directed at myself.

And the pain too...

I wasn't sexually abused as a child but emotionally abused by my biological brothers to the point of psychosis.

The picture is a still to get everyone's attention.

The audio is extremely important...

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qn1sEdCnEM4

Concerning the birth pangs we have gone through.

Unfortunately I could not make out much of what he was saying.My hearing is OK but he was very hard to understand.

He has a heavy Indian Accent.

Who is the pretty doggie ??!!!

Dear Friends,

I have been reading through this thread and find all your replies very interesting. I love discussions like this. Regardless of how many times it has come up over the years and beaten to a pulp around the world, it is still very interesting to me.

Creation vs Evolution....hmmmm....can anyone create a human? Science is messing with that and in my book, that is a huge NO..NO. That is messing with the highest of the higher powers and if it goes too far, there will be lightning bolts striking somewhere for sure!

Approximately 96% of the human body has just four elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen -- most of that composition is in the form of water. The other 4% is made up of numerous elements in small amounts that the body needs.

Now then - science has proven that one can go out and gather these necessary elements and put them together, but you will not have a human. If you mixed these elements into a substance, like clay, to mold and form them into a shape that resembles a human, you will still not have a human being. So, obviously, there is something missing -- and that something is the soul.

And where does the soul come from? Is it the soul that makes our brain work? If not, what does make the brain work? What makes the human, the core of the human, what it is? Science cannot create a soul. It might be able to create a brain, like they did on Jeopardy a few months ago -- however, someone (a human) had to program that "brain" and give it directions as to where to find the information before it could give the correct response.

Can one create a soul to put into that lump of clay with all the correct elements. Not likely. So, just where does the soul come from -- what is it's origins?

We, as humans, make things so very complex and that is our nature. We each have a very complex computer in our head that only about 10% of is ever used -- some people can go beyond that 10% and often do. If we could accomplish the task of using 100% of our brain, we would not have to be here on Mother Earth for any reason.

This is my belief on how souls come to be within the human body. I would very much like to hear (read) any of your opinions on my belief. I am open to the beliefs of others. That is what has given me the peace, harmony, and balance I have in my life: being open to the ideas, thoughts and beliefs of others. Ok, here goes:

God is not complex. He is far above and beyond anything we know in the physical realm, be it wisdom, spirituality, ability, whatever. He is everything there is. He is the First, the Beginning, the One, the Beyond, the Great Mystery, the Creator -- He is Wakan (Holy) and Sacred. At one point in His existence, which is from the beginning, He decided to create Angels. These were Spirits to inhabit His realm. He appointed the Archangels, Michael, Gabriel and Raphael to be over all other Angels, of which there are many.

God then created other spirits that were on a level below all Angels. For these spirits to grow and reach higher levels, they were given a choice to stay in God's realm and learn slowly, or go to Earth and learn much faster by experiencing human emotions, trials, and tribulations.

These lower spirits make a choice of which life they want to be in and learn -- and they come back many times in different lifes to learn as much as they can as quickly as they can.

Some of these spirits in the beginning decided to split. In other words, a spirit split in two. One half was male and the other half female and they live each life as the same gender sometimes switching genders These are Twin Souls/Flames. It is rare for the twins to meet each other in life, but, when they do it is a phenomenal experience that can switch from profound love and devotion, or bicker like fighting cats or children (like my twin soul and I do -- one day we are so close we know what the other is going to say or do and the love is profound, other days we throw tantrums with each other and walk away for awhile). Yet, there is nothing on Earth that can ever break their spiritual bond, regardless of what happens in their physical life they will always, for all eternity, be one half of the other.

When spirits come to Earth to learn, they inhabit a newborn as a soul. When the person dies, the soul goes back to its spiritual form. This is what makes a human a human, the soul which comes from Spirit.

I do have a lot more to discuss with all of you on this subject, but, I do not want to throw it all out at once. Besides, this is now long enough to be an article! Sorry about that. I would like to give you all a chance to reply with your opinions.

The doggie 'after the party' is the first girl I ever had. She lived to be 16 and a half. I called her 'my little angel' which in truth, she was.

The human physical body is only one of four sheaths of interpenetrating vibratory forcefields which house the being of man. You can think of them as colanders one placed within the other like Russian Matryoshka, (nesting), dolls.

Only when the holes in the 'colanders' are lined-up can the Light of Christ flow freely through the entire being of man, (and woman of course just using man for brevity).

So, have you tried to drive a four-wheeled car with only one tire touching the ground lately ?

Therefore, you can analyse the physical body to death--pardon the pun--and your missing the forest for the trees.

But, we've all been doing that for thousands of years because we are an infant humanity.

We focus on the outer person and personality and how they interface with a perverted and warped 'society'.

He's tall - he's rich - she's glamorous - she's a clothes horse.

And the polar opposite of course...

she's ugly - he's fat -- they ain't got no money.

They did it in Jesus' time and before Jesus' time and we're still doing it today.

If Our LORD had any fear whatsoever, it was the fear that we would worship his outer form and personality and miss the whole point of why he did what he did publicly to show and prove for all time:

"You are not your physical body. You are a spirit who must integrate all that you are with the one great spirit, then you will no longer have to experience death".

The four lower bodies of man which interact with the four lower bodies of the planet are:

The Etheric or the fire body also called the memory and spirit body of man.

It is the highest vibrating forcefield which contains all of the records of your incarnations on the planet--your personal akasha if you will--which correspond to the tablets of mem and the emerald tables of Hermes Trismegistus.

This is sealed at birth as an act of mercy.

How would you like to walk around with the conscious memory of your slaughtering 10,000 people in hand to hand combat including women and children ?

We have all been Kings and Queens, paupers and peasants, black, white, yellow and brown, male, female, tyrants and saints -- planet earth is a schoolroom -- but we've taken the short bus to school and are lagging behind the rest of the universe.

Then comes the mental body of which the physical brain is just the cup or the chalice for.

"Let this mind be in you also that was in Christ Jesus".

It corresponds to the air element and is the gift of God to allow us to cognate.

The carnal mind and the outer human personality thinks it is smarter than God -- it is not.

Then comes the emotional body or the energy-in-motion body that is the most difficult to manage and to master as it is related to the water element.

It is also called the astral body and it interacts with the astral plane.

The astral plane and body was originally created by God to express the deep and harmonious Love he has for his creation.

However, it is seriously polluted with records of hatred and war, and I wouldn't suggest 'astral travel' unless you are helped and protected by legitimate and bona fide servants of The Living God -- and there are a gazillion of false teachers who will take you on a wild psychedelic psychic ride and leave you empty-handed. It is currently the lair of all that seeks to harm you.

The moon is the reflector and amplifier of the astral plane and in the age to come after the astral plane is cleaned out the moon will reflect a sheen of gold rather than the current silver.

Then comes your physical body which relates to the earth body and earth plane and frequency.

What vitamins do you take to stay healthy ?

Iron, calcium, zinc.

Go in the back yard and flip over a shovelful of dirt and take a sample to the lab.

Iron, calcium, zinc.

And no, I don't have a PhD -- a (P)erson who (h)ides (D)a obvious -- PhD.

Yet dust to dust was never spoken of the soul.

So, go ahead and use the carnal mind and its limited reasoning abilities to analyse the physical body and beat this dead horse some more.

You're still missing and overlooking and denying two parts of the whole !

And wholeness is what we are all seeking consciously or unconscious or subconsciously.

And Denial is Not a River in Egypt for Christ's Sake !!

Sincerely Yours,

Burt B.
P.S. Rant over... Phyllis, I will take a more in-depth look at your work and comment intelligently upon it as time permits.
P.S.S. I'm just so sick of everyone arguing and arguing over BS that can be slayed once and for all if people are willing !!:)!!!

WoW that's Cool !!

Connie my partner used to be the Dr. Doolittle during her growing up in the area of Big Stone Gap VA.

She said that when she had girls like your little doggie and they came in heat that she had to put diapers on them !!!

Phyllis, I like this! It is pretty close to what I have always believed.

I probably will lose all of you with what I'm going to say next, but that's OK. We all have our own paths and we learn in different ways. I'm just a bit odd because in my early years I did not trust humans very much. I communicated mainly with non humans. I know a lot of people believe that animals must have the human experience to 'reach our level'. I have never accepted this, or found it to be a fact in my own experience.

I believe they evolve alongside us, and that they can become 'Masters' in whatever species they happen to be. I have seen a budgie with a depth of spiritual advancement that would put many humans to shame! I have seen the very low, and the very high in animal and in human. But when you see it in an animal, or a little bird, it is something you never quite get over! I still marvel at the lessons I have learned from creatures around me - often wild creatures too. I have had them seek me out when walking in a forest, and walk with me, transmitting 'messages' to my soul - silently.

Then there was the most remarkable experience with a dolphin named Margot, at Sea World where I was doing my 'practical' in a Cetacean Paramedic Course with Project Jonah. Her 'lesson' with me lasted probably no more than 20 minutes, but I was never the same again. A changed person with a whole new understanding of Life. That was the beginning!

It is also a very humbling experience to meet a Goanna that is wiser than one's self, and more spiritually evolved!

They have been my greatest teachers in life, and for my first 13 years, my only close friends.

YES! I've had a female since who had one litter. In Season, she wore little knickers with a pad. It was hilarious the first time I put it on her. She walked like she had a broom up her bottom end!

Dear Burt,

I so understand all you wrote above.

The message I was trying to convey in my post is basically what you are saying. I just started from the beginning of my thought/belief process.

I know for a fact that the real me is not my body, but my soul. My soul is the essence of who I am.

My Mother (God bless her soul) left us just 12 days ago. Mama and I are so close in spirit. During the first several days after Mama left Earth, I was with her on her spiritual journey. Every time I slept, I was with her, I heard her speaking with other spirits, greeting them and them greeting her. I heard the voices of many as I slept, and I traveled with Mama. She reached the place where beyond I am not allowed until I, too, leave Mother Earth.

Those of us left behind are still in the schools of knowledge here on Earth. When our time comes to depart, the joy we will experience is indescribable. My Mother is blissfully happy and at peace.

I often converse with Jesus or the Great Mother (some call her the Mother Goddess). Both of these messengers/guides are compassionate and loving and I find great comfort when being with them. They are helping me immensely as I pass through the stages of the loss of my Mother. I believe I am healing much quicker than most would during a time like this because of the peace I have found in knowing the truth of who we are and why we are here and where we go from here.

I so appreciate your thoughts and you sharing them with us.

Brother in Spirit, I love you.
Phyllis

God Phyllis, I Love You Dearly Blessed Sister of Mine.

Your words are so precious to me.

Why ?

Because I feel many times that I have wasted my life and caused myself and my family such unnecessary pain.

Yet, your words soothe me and let me know that the choices I made were bucking a planetary momentum and I did not reach out to the proper people in time to be able to function in the outside world.

But, It's OK because finding God and dedicating ourselves to spiritual things are the most important thing we can do.

-- Burt B.

Ohhhh! You have me crying now, Burt -- tears of joy!

Brother In Spirit

I have a book of Treasures
I hold so sacred and dear
Upon the pages it measures
Time from year to year

This is my precious book
Treasures always in my heart
Tearstained leaves at which I look
Tell me I am never apart

From those in truth I love
Who walk so gently beside me
Whether they are abiding above
Or here on Earth they guide me

Words of loved ones I do so need
Words that soothe and heal hurt
New words I now can always read
From my Brother in Spirit, Burt

Onealone (I do wish you would change your name to NeverAlone),

I believe that animals have spirits. Several of my pets who have walked on to the spiritual world have returned to me off and on over the years. My little Boomer, an Australian Silky, sometimes visits me during the night and lays on my bed like he used to. He has not visited for quite awhile, but that is ok. At least I know he is at peace.

Native Americans believe that everything in Creation has a spirit -- the two-legged, four-legged, winged, finned, rooted, etc., all have a spirit. I am not of any Native American descent, but have a very close spiritual bond to the Lakhota, Hopi, and pacific northwest tribes. When I go out to gather sage or cedar for prayers or smudging, I thank the spirit of the plant for allowing me to use it's energies in healing rituals.

I feel the spirit of the plants, and I never take from them more than what I need for one purpose. This is one way I live in Harmony and Balance with Mother Earth.

OH YES dear Phyllis, I SO RELATE to what you have written and experienced. YES! Plants, and even a pebble on the beach!

I seem to think in harmony with the native Americans. Perhaps I spent a past incarnation with them. I have often felt a deep bond with these people.
(Just think of the 'onealone' as referring to the 'one eye' my little dog is showing!)

I just had the thought come into my mind last night, where I was asked to share the message which I was given by whales in 1979, when I asked to know 'truth'.

It was simply these words:

"We are you, and you are we, and we are one with the whole of creation. EXPERIENCE that, and you will know all the truth you need for now."

Most religions do recognize that animals have spirits through time except for Christianity. Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:260 or "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." (Genesis 9:3)

MANY religions do recognize that animals have souls from the Qur'&#257;n Surah 6:38 "There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you".

Many religions accept the fact that animals have souls.

The spirit of life is God's gift to all His living creatures human or animal. Life or what makes us alive is the spiritual essence or soul. The animal or human body is made up of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Without the spiritual essence we are without life.

Diana, you say it so very well:

"The spirit of life is God's gift to all His living creatures human or animal. Life or what makes us alive is the spiritual essence or soul. The animal or human body is made up of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Without the spiritual essence we are without life."

Very nice.

Thank you Phyllis. Though it sounds like something from your kind heart than mine. I do admire you my friend.

This has certainly been an interesting read. A fertile egg can't be form by any species of animal without a male and a female unless the animal is capable of fertilizing their own egg. I believe there are some animals capable of this. Either way, an egg, especially a chicken egg isn't going to hatch unless it is kept warm, turned, and so forth.



That is pretty sensational and so true.

This is an interesting topic. Can anyone explain the Yeti? I know it is somewhat off topic. Is it another form of humanoid species that was never discovered?

Diana, it seems to me that you have a very gentle, kind soul and such a good heart. The love and concern you express for animals, the kindness and goodness that comes through when you chat with people, all comes from within you and lets your spirit shine forth.

You are a good friend. May all the love and goodness you give to others, including those precious animals, come back to you this New Year. Bless you.

PS: Diana, I wish you would join us in the Goddess thread in the Spirituality forum. We talk about so many things related to spirituality, God, self worth, love of self and all Creation, all kinds of things. Deanna is such a lovely and open-hearted soul and it is so comfortable being there. You would be a wonderful asset to the group.

I am so glad you brought up this topic on Creation and Evolution. It really opens up a lot of discussion and makes people reflect and ponder.

I think this has been a wonderful topic. It really has gotten me thinking about a lot of things. I feel it has changed my life to the better. I see a lot of changes coming this New Year. Thank you all for helping me to become a better person.

Phyllis - Diana I have met in person, she is everything you said and more. She gives until it hurts and then she gives some more.

I would love to look into the Goddess thread in the Spirituality forum. I will check it out soon. I have done a great deal of soul search since starting this thread. It has been a learning experience.

Ahh Calla. I have done a lot of things wrong in life as well as good I guess. Next you will tell everyone my picture is ten years old I feel a strong connection to animals and mother earth. It is almost as if you can hear her speak. A soft whisper or a suggestion. Not sure how to describe it.

Wow, there are some unique perspectives here. As long as we are alive we will probably never know the answers. There are always more questions than answers it seems. What is some of the evidence that prove advanced societies existed long ago? This is fascinating.

Diana, the Native American tribes have a saying, that the "Drum is the heartbeat of Mother Earth." I often hear the voice of Mother Earth and Nature.

You are on a beautiful spiritual journey, dear one.

Hi george57,

They have found physical batteries -- not compact ones more open that seem to use subtle energies.

Some fishermen found a sophisticated 'cosmic clock' in around 1957 with precise gears dated 1000 years before gears existed in the current time frame.

There are gold charms from the Incas found intact from 1000's of years ago that looked like an airplane and a helicopter.

The airplane charm was proven to be aerodynamically correct by a lab in Germany in 1999.

Sophisticated medical instruments were found that led some to believe that high-level brain surgery was performed 1000's of years ago.

And 9 foot skeletons were also discovered.

However, human archaeology can only penetrate the matter universe.

There are many occult and esoteric works that focus upon individuals who could accurately read akasha -- which is the 'recording device' of the spirit.

Things evolve in the spirit-world just like they do here in the material world.

If we use Jesus Christ as a baseline... then does the God of very God's know nothing about automobile transportation and Space Shuttles ???!!!!

Of course He/Her/Them/It however you define the primary source of life does !!!

The space shuttle is old hat...

It's been done.

Oh... 'bout 35-50,000 years ago !!

yep. yep.

Sincerely,

Burt B.

P.S. A good place to start is this book with graphic discriptions of the working technologies that were alive and well on Atlantis

http
://www.amazon.com/Dweller-Two-Planets-Phylos/dp/0875050883

You can read it for free here...

http
://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/dtp/

Here's the intro:


A Dweller on Two Planets is one of the most important texts of the 19th Century Atlantis canon. The book was 'channeled' by Frederick S. Oliver. Oliver was born in Washington D.C. in 1866 and came to Yreka, California, with his parents when he was two years old. Yreka is just north of Mount Shasta, a huge dormant volcanic peak in Northern California.

Oliver started to write this book at the age of eighteen, in 1883-4, while surveying the boundaries of his family's mining claim. He found himself writing uncontrollably in his notebook. He ran home in terror, where he sat down and let his hand write. These automatic writing spells continued for several years; he would write a few pages at a time. He completed writing this book in 1886, and died at the age of 33 in 1899.

A Dweller on Two Planets was finally published in 1905, by his mother Mary Elizabeth Manley-Oliver. There are two editions which are substantially the same, except for a different set of typographical errors and hyphens (although curiously the page numbering in both is identical). The first edition, published in 1905, was reprinted in 1974 by Rudolf Steiner Books; the second, published in 1920 by the Poseid Publishing Company, Los Angeles, CA, was reprinted in 1964 by Health Research. The 1920 version was used as the basis for this etext, as it was printed more legibly.

A Dweller on Two Planets would be a tour de force for a teenager from rural California in the post-Gold Rush period. Although as a literary work it is weak in many ways, the details of the narrative reveal a well-read and highly intelligent, if inexperienced, author. The plot and pacing is irregular; the characterizations are poorly conceived, and there are far too many melodramatic turns and plot elements left dangling. However, since this is a novel of ideas, these shortcoming should not detract from the enjoyment of the book.

The real brilliance of this book is as a work of speculative fiction, particularly in the depiction of the high technology of Atlantis, and the afterlife. The book goes into great detail about antigravity, mass transit, the employment of 'dark-side' energy (which today would be called 'zero point energy'), and devices such as voice-operated typewriters. The cigar-shaped, highly maneuverable Atlantean flying machines, or vailx, have an eerie resemblance to 20th Century UFO reports. The personalized heavens, almost like virtual realities, are unforgettable and very compelling.

This book is openly acknowledged as source material for many new age belief systems, including the once-popular "I AM" movement (whose founder, Guy Ballard, plagiarized extensively from this book), the Lemurian Fellowship, and Elizabeth Claire Prophet. According to Shirley MacLaine, A Dweller on Two Planets jumped out of a bookshelf into her hands in a New Age bookstore in Hong Kong (and obviously had an big influence on her subsequently). This book is the source of the idea that there is a hidden sanctuary of ascended Lemurian masters under Mount Shasta. This book was also probably the first to propose the concept of of 'America as the modern Atlantis', which was later adopted by writers such as Manly P. Hall.

The Lemurian Fellowship published a sequel in 1940 titled An Earth Dweller's Return. This rehashed the plot of the original, and had some radically different maps, which I've included on the maps page.

That is really quite interesting. I find many of the ancient ruins fascinating like the similarities of the statues in Bolivia, the puma punku, Easter Island, and other historical sites. The are so similar yet so far apart from each other. I also see a big resemblance between the movie ET character and one of the statues in Bolivia.

Where were the 9 foot skeletons discovered. I would like to learn more about this. I knew of the gold charms, but the nine foot skeletons is evading me

um... yeah..