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Jilly Offline OP
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I was recently told by DH that I am the third thing in his life. His code/development/creative interests come first. Then his mother. Then me. At least I come before his sister and niece.

Is this typical? Should this bother me?

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I think for a man that is kinda reasonable. If he had said you first would you have believed him? As for mothers, depends on the mother I guess.


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Is it okay... I would have trouble saying yes. But is it normal, definitly. Somedays, I don't even think my husband likes me...


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I guess it's okay then. At least he is honest. He has about five things he cares about in life - so I am happy to even be ON the list. smile

Molly, I do like my hubby and he does like me, but I am not sure if he loves me much. He says he does, but i think it's more like a sibling feeling than a spouse thing.

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Do other people feel this is okay in their marriages - to not come first? Is the idea of coming first really some kind of unrealistic fairytale?

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No. A great deal of doors that could have been walked through aren't opened or crossed in taking vows seriously.

It's hard to put into words, but definitions of how a person (husband or wife) comes first are significant too in whether or not a person feels they come first. Also, to consider is sometimes a spouse just can't come first, like when you're just on mental overload, even if it goes on for months, even a year or so. But what are you 2nd, 3rd in line for 4th place to? Of upmost importance, you're a living breathing beautiful Soul, that someone married and made promises to.

I remember when I first thought I'd be able to juggle Mused. I wanted to so badly, but man emotionally I just couldn't.

But, there was a black and white photo I happened to see. I think the person who took it was looking for constructive criticism??? It's been so long...like maybe a year, but I remember it. It made my stomach tight.

Anyway, my comment was different than the others who complimented it greatly. I said something like it's too...something I felt I'd see more of in a doctors office or a NY upity apt. Too structured or controlled? It just felt so cold??? Perfection. I don't know. I just remember the photo.

To come 2nd or 3rd and depending on what for, there's no two ways about it, it's lonely. Especially if you're someone in tuned with nature. So much beauty there. Those types of people feel everything, just everything. They work in balance and harmony, they don't waste, in general and are very outside of the box thinkers and creative themselves.

If someone comes 3rd or 4th, each one of those placements comes with them other emotions, demands, comittments and eventually even more people.

Sometimes it's one of those things where if a spouse just tells you where you rate, it makes them feel free to do what they want because they told you how it is. Just NO or more importantly, just why?

Besides there's significance in being with someone who places you last on their list, regardless of what number it is.


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People get confused and worried because they believe there is one acceptable definition of marriage. If you have religious beliefs that define marriage, then of course, by all means, follow those dictates.

But for those who aren't bound by such beliefs, understand that you and your mate are the ones who define your marriage. You decide what is acceptable or not. Are you satisfied with your mutual understanding of marriage? Come to a happy agreement. Your coupling is the result of free will. You choose each other and how you want to define marriage.

Coming third to your mate? How does that make you feel, Jill? As one who knows the artistic urge, you might feel that he would not come before your creative and intellectual growth. Would you choose him if that meant you could never ever create or study new things? As for coming second to his mother...that wouldn't sit well with any wife. However, I have to admit that the mother-child bond is probably the strongest on earth. We divorce easily and wave good-bye to spouses but rarely ever to the one who incubated and bore us. But you're comparing apples to oranges: A love for a mother is very different from love for a mate!

You have to decide if you are okay with what people offer you. Some people are incapable of offering love in the way we need or want it. Some people simply do not care to offer love to us in the way we need or want it.

Men and women stay in relationships because they feel they are receiving something--and sometimes, it isn't even love--in return.

When the balance is dissatisfying, you need to ask or state what it is you want or need from the relationship. The other person decides if he can or wants to give it or not. You need to decide if you're okay with his decision. If not, you can try to work it out during counseling sessions because people often change their minds when they grow a little or experience effective communication.

But are you getting what you want from your marriage? If not, what are you getting from it? Is it enough?

And then, the obvious question you need to ask yourself: "Do I love him? Do I love him enough to stay in a less-than-ideal marriage?"


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Oh, gosh. As usual, I went off a long tangent!

My answer is that 1. Coming first to your spouse is not a fairytale; but 2. Coming third can be fine, depending on what are numbers 1 and 2!


Last edited by Lori Chidori - Marriage; 03/13/11 10:12 PM.
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Thanks, Lori. I would not want to give up learning and growing for anything or anyone, and would not consider it fair if it was asked of me.

As far as coming in after someone else...it's an interesting question. Do i have anyone that comes before him, to me? I guess not. So it is a tad uneven here.

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But remember to compare apples to apples! His love for his mother can't be compared to his love for his wife. Different types of love.

YOU are the love (as in lover, wife, mate) of his life.

I know you have a long distance relationship. But if you read throughout history, long distance marriages worked. Think about seafaring men or explorers who went on years-long journeys. Cowboys. Military men. Artists and religious men who went on solitary retreats. Scientists. Writers. Political ambassadors. Missionaries. They all have to have very patient and independent wives who can handle long periods without their men.

But Jill, if you're feeling lonely and crave more physical companionship, can you schedule in more visits with him?

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Its quite natural and nothing to worry about, obviously his mother with whom he has live for many years would come before you, and his work..Work is worship. LoLzz

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I am first with my husband and he tells me this all the time. He is also first with me.

He is passionate about writing and is writing his 3rd novel. He's a bear with a sore head if he can't write every day. But he would give it up if I asked. Of course I wouldn't ask :-) And he does put it aside (to catch up on later) when life interferes.


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Lori I am here with Dan right now for a few months. it's amazing to be able to touch someone for hugs and cuddles. I keep forgetting, actually, that I can do that now.

Those are good points about careers and relationships around the world and over time. smile

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I have recently learned that I cannot put my husband first. He puts himself and his hobbies and interests first, so if I put him first as well, there is two of us putting him first and none putting me first. I think it's ok not to come first to your spouse as long as said spouse doesn't expect you to put him first.

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I would have a bigggg problem if I wasn't first for my husband. Luckily I know I am, and he's also first for me. I wouldn't accept being 2nd or 3rd.

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Lori:

Thanks for reminding me that there are "different" types of love. My challenge has been his family - ALL of them(lol). But as he grows older, I see he is "backing" up more from them as he is realizing that he is getting older and while we have our disagreements - we do care about each other. With me being 53 and him being 57 and only living together a year, it has been an adjustment - but as you stated, HE is worth it to me at the moment. I love the fact that we can come and go, no responsibilities except the 2 doggies - concentrate on our dreams, careers and so on. He also respects the fact that I do treasure my "peace & quiet" and so far, we have not had any "surprise" visits all hours and nights from the "drama" kings & queens in his family - yippee. He is getting older and no longer wants to be the one that everyone runs to when they need to be bailed out of some mess they created.

Jilly:

Thanks SO MUCH for being open about your situation, it has helped me in so many ways. I too was doing the "distance" thing, it was so hard. But it is possible. Some days I do miss being gone/lol - but do not want to not see him and the dogs for 6 LONG months like I did last year July to this year January. It would have been a lot easier if I could have afforded to visit. Missed the holidays and his birthday - not good at all.

Have an AWESOME day/night Bella Family!

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My husband and I are both 64, been married 10 years and came together because of our similar view on God who I would say is 1st in our lives, but we try to treat each other with kindness and unconditional love.

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Hi Susan - you said the important word UNCONDITIONAL - that is what I had to work on. When I was younger, it was like "I expected" something in return from the man in my life. Don't get me wrong, I will not be his "doormat" - but now do things out of caring and not "trading"... And yes, some days I have to really talk to myself to do this(lol). But it does CANCEL out whatever "negativity" that is in our household. You have proved, you are NEVER too old to find love - way to go. Thanks for sharing!!!

Last edited by Angela J. Shirley; 12/16/11 09:53 AM.
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Oops. I have now dropped down below the sister in terms of importance.

We are actually not going to be married much longer. We are in the course of deciding who will take what.

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I feel like every relationship is different. What works for one relationship doesn't have to work for the other. It depends on the couple. I have come second to my husbands family for a long time. I wasn't happy with it at all. It got to the point to where I was ready to leave. And thats when my husband realized that he had his own family to worry about besides his brothers and sister and now I think he loves me more than ever. The fear of loss is an amazing thing. I'm not trying to give anyone any ideas here. lol That won't work with everybody either. But seriously if it is an issue with you then maybe you should just talk about it and let them know how you feel.

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I think ranking humans is inherently difficult. Is child one somehow more important than child two? Really, they are important in different ways. If you do not have kids, try ranking pets. Hopefully it presents the same challenge. Yes my boyfriend is important but I have only been with him 16 years. My sister has relied on me for 40.


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Pets are easy. In this order: Cameron, John Crichton, MeiMei and Charles Tucker. And I adopted out Samwise and Logan. smile

Anyway, I am getting out. I would not mind someone who put me first.

Last edited by Jilly; 12/22/11 12:29 AM.
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You give me hope that one day this will happen to me.

Originally Posted By: All about improvement
I feel like every relationship is different. What works for one relationship doesn't have to work for the other. It depends on the couple. I have come second to my husbands family for a long time. I wasn't happy with it at all. It got to the point to where I was ready to leave. And thats when my husband realized that he had his own family to worry about besides his brothers and sister and now I think he loves me more than ever. The fear of loss is an amazing thing. I'm not trying to give anyone any ideas here. lol That won't work with everybody either. But seriously if it is an issue with you then maybe you should just talk about it and let them know how you feel.

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Do you have any tips for me? It has been 3 years and I am still struggling with me. And by this I mean, knowing how to have a "healthy" balance. 16 years, that means something is working. How long did you date before you guys moved in together if you dont' mind my asking? It was 2 years for me.

Originally Posted By: Lisa LowCarb / VideoGames
I think ranking humans is inherently difficult. Is child one somehow more important than child two? Really, they are important in different ways. If you do not have kids, try ranking pets. Hopefully it presents the same challenge. Yes my boyfriend is important but I have only been with him 16 years. My sister has relied on me for 40.

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Jilly, I am so sorry.

Are you guys sure this is the what you both want?

Originally Posted By: Jilly
Oops. I have now dropped down below the sister in terms of importance.

We are actually not going to be married much longer. We are in the course of deciding who will take what.

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I was never first in my husband's life, nor were our 5 children. His job was #1; he was a prof. at Notre Dame, and I always felt that ND was the "other woman" in our marriage. I was a distant second and the kids hardly seemed to matter at all. Notre Dame finally won out, and I left him 30+ years ago.
We are still friends though, and to my amazement he told me the other day, out of the blue, that his biggest regret is that he didn't involve himself more with the kids when they were growing up. I often thought that he missed out on so much by spending every minute possible at ND; that he finally realizes it after all these years is so sad.

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Dear Jilly -

It shows how we are all fascinating, different types of people! I could not rank my pets. They are both fully loved and of equal value in my mind. So that is just a different mindset.


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Lisa, I automatically rank everything that comes into my domain. I don't know why - never thought about that before. And yes, this means everything, including you. smile

Maybe it's an Aspergers, or a compulsive thing. I find it comforting to rank everything.

Angela, let me re-read over your posts and give you my thoughts.

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Jilly,

Have you considered Alimony? I'm not talking about wiping someone out, but just the basics, like rent payments, even just $100-$200/mnth, so you at least have food or income say something goes wrong w/a car or roof over your head of wherever it is you're living.

If he was the sole income-provider, you may be able to work something out while you're getting on your feet, like 1-2 yrs. car/house payments.

If there's any type of debt, usually, they have people split it (if it's amicable 50/50).

Some sides chose to act as the bigger person by saying, "I don't want anything...take it all, I'll even take over any outstanding deb." to avoid financial responsibility over the long-haul. Whatever they "gift" you can be presented as income though, keep that in mind.

All of this is stuff I never would ever have thought about (I'm not material by a long shot!) if I hadn't gone through some of this myself.

I was putzing along going "Wow...what a nice gesture." On his part, the actions were simply to keep me calm, distracted & uninformed.

The goal was getting an end set up to be detached from everything. He'd already been starting to. I just didn't know the scope of it.


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Take your time Jilly, you are going through a lot right now.

I totally understand, believe me.

Hugs,
Angela

Originally Posted By: Jilly
Lisa, I automatically rank everything that comes into my domain. I don't know why - never thought about that before. And yes, this means everything, including you. smile

Maybe it's an Aspergers, or a compulsive thing. I find it comforting to rank everything.

Angela, let me re-read over your posts and give you my thoughts.

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Jilly, I'm sending good thoughts and prayers your way ...

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My husband often says " you are my first, in my word only you", but i know that career for a man is very very important, which is a source of his happiness and self-confidence. If it makes him happy, wouldn't you be happy?

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I don't have a problem with a man's career coming before me as long as he spends time with me.

I have heard that it is important for us to have something outside of our relationship that brings us joy.

I am working on my professional life now as Sylvester does have a career he enjoys - something that he promised himself at age 58. Yes, when we were younger - it was all about doing what was needed to provide a roof over our minor kids. Now it is about enjoying what time we have left on this earth.

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Originally Posted By: Angela J. Shirley
I don't have a problem with a man's career coming before me as long as he spends time with me.


I agree with the above statement, however, in my situation, what I think is a decent amount of "COUPLE TIME" differs greatly from my DH.

My DH works 2 jobs, 7 days a week with sometimes putting in 70+ hours. We are child-free as well. I sound like a broken record when I bring the subject up of us spending time together. He listens, it lasts one weekend and then we are back to the drawing board. We do have a date night once a week where we go out to eat and converse, but, that is not a marriage (kids or no kids).

I married later in life (38) and was always independent (own home, 2 cars, Harley, etc). I married for companionship, above all else, and ended up with the opposite. I believe in my marriage vows and do not give up easily, but, I will be damned if I am going to live this way forever.

Actually, this post should be titled "IS IT OKAY TO COME SECOND OR THIRD TO YOUR SPOUSE", not just husband. I know that my job comes first and vice-versa, but, not to the extent that it makes my DH unhappy or effects our marraige. My DH does not see it that way and makes me feel he could care less.

With that said, you are not alone!

Last edited by StormChaser; 12/28/11 10:41 AM.

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Hi StormChaser:

Yes, like you, I got into this relationship late in life - been together 3 years - I am 53, he is 58.

My challenge right now is becoming "financially" independent again as it has been a rollercoaster ride since being laid off in 2008, was on unemployment for 2 years and had savings.

When both savings and unemployment ran out the end of 2010, I moved in with him 2011, not really wanted to.

Every day I have to deal with the "shame" of not being able to save anything. Some days he is okay with this, and some days, while he may not say anything - his body language tells me.

Like you, I don't want to continue living like this - but tired of "running away" every time I get into a challenging spot.

Bottom line, when is it okay to run? And by this I mean, when is it time to give up on making stuff work.

Hmmm, interesting question...

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Angela....your situation financially is similar to mine....laid off in 2008 and all unemployment compensation and savings are gone. I am still looking for work now.

I understand the stress that can put a person under. I can see moving in with someone for a time to get back on your feet, but to answer your question.....if you find more bad than good in the relationship, and that more often than not you are unhappy......it is time to go.

And I wouldn't call it running away. I would call it making yourself important.

Last edited by Cassie67; 12/28/11 11:39 AM.

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Thanks Cassie smile

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Thank you, Susan. That is very kind of you and I appreciate it.

I think it will be okay. I will be really lonely with dan leaves, but I am also looking forward to having a lot more room in my tiny home, decorating it the way i want, playing my own music - loudly - not having to worry about waking someone when i head out to the outhouse in the middle of the night.

I also have local friends here this year, which I think will make a huge difference.

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Jilly, you are a very STRONG lady indeed!

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Thanks. Believe me, I am not looking forward to this. But I am trying to see the good sides, as I have no choice in this matter.

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I was summing up 2011 in another post as transitional, and I can't help but wonder how many people are going through such transitional periods in their lifes.

When you ring in the New Year I'll wish you the best for 2012.


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Thanks! Yeah, no doubt there will be many transitions coming up ahead.

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I am in transition right now. My divorce went down in May of 2010 and I am still trying to get over it. Next year has got to be a better year.


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I'd say 2012 is "Transition City!"

But the feeling I get is the kind like, gentle-people, start your engines, type of deal.

I feel A - LOT of energy rolling in and this is the beginning of it all. (sheesh I haven't even had my champagne yet)!

It will be like "Universal lotto", where everyone coasting along on this type of energy wins something, no matter how much they feel they've lost.

But don't get too crazy, because 2025 seems monumental for some reason...pace along with celebration feels important wink

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Jilly, by sharing with us, you have been such a "help" to us - thank you for doing this and we are ALWAYS here for you!!!

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Oh my Jilly! That's huge! Please know my thoughts are with you.

My first love put his mother before me. It was extraordinarily painful, but she didn't like me and she worked hard to drive a wedge between us. Though he was an idiot - we would have split up anyway.



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Parakeet
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I'm sorry gals, My wife is my first priority. She knows that she is worthy and because of that in return I know that also. This culture would make women second, third, or 50th. Maybe I am wrong about this but maybe if we knew that we were number one with ourselves then possibly our spouse would eventually feel the same. Jilly you are a cool gal. You are second to no-one. dave

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Please allow me to add one more note.

I left my mom to marry my wife. Now she is number one. I still love my mom and I have enough room inside to love even more than those two. We all do. dave

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In the movie, "Ten Commandments" I remember when Sephora told Nefritiri, "You lost Moses when he went to seek his God. I lost him when he found his God."

There are many instances where a wife comes second. To God. To a cause. To a man's own weaknesses such as addictions. In ancient Asia, it was fairly common for a wife to come second to a man's mother.

But...I don't think of it as coming second. You can come first, second, third or lower only if you are separate from him. When "the two shall become one" I think of my husband and I as one in spirit. I am he and he is me. What he loves, I love. When I think like that, there is no need for rankings.

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Jilly Offline OP
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Lori, that's lovely. Yeah, I do not have that. Not close! smile

Dave, you are so sweet. Thank you for your kindness. I really need to take that to heart: to not let anyone feel i am not number one with myself. I am taking self esteem classes to help me with this.

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@Lori, my sentiments exactly.
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If your spouse is not going to be number one in your life there is no point getting married.

Hats off to you, Dave! There ought to be more guys like you out there smile


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