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There's not a single one of us that doesn't want to believe in a happy ending. We were raised on those. Whether it was a fairy tale or geneological break through.

Though those stand to inpire, they aren't always the ending or outcome each of us ends up livng through, but we're here and we're together and each of us though not living the perfect dream, may have a piece of a recipe - kind of like that fairy tale where no one in the town had any food, but a travelor who had nothing after asking for a small token and being turned away several times, turned it around and went to each house asking what they did have and ended up puting it all together in a giant town cauldren and ended up feeding everyone.

I wanted to start this forum in addition or extension of the "Visions of the Near Future" forum for preparation tips and reference guides.

I feel once that "feeling" begin getting stronger with the people, they will begin seeking less conventional means of information. they will eventually see they are being told what they want to hear and want to hear something that can actually help. Kind of like a mother's instinct.

So, if you do have any down to basics, simple things that help to prepare for interim halts of sutainability, please feel free to post here.

Right now. The first one I'll post is:

LEAR TO GARDEN. NOW - even if you don't have land. Get to know what flour is made of and how yeast works and preserve. Learn how to can and preserve and even cure.



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Thanks for adding this topic and providing a place for us to share tips and list/recommend resources.

We are completely spoiled with conveniences industry and technology have provided. It's hard to imagine living as they did in the 1800's. A while back someone emailed me an elementary school test from that era. I would have completely failed! Back then, people HAD to use their brain, rely on memory, each other, and keep journals. As Caulbearer11 stated in another topic, our brains will be our most valuable asset when our visions and dreams come to pass. Each of us needs to invest in this asset. But where do we start? This is perhaps the hardest part.

Wouldn't it be great if someone developed a multi-player/multi-level internet game based on a small rural community in 1898? Each player would have to learn to be self-sufficient, live off the land, and contribute to the community. That's a "farming" game I'd be interested in, if historically accurate. Much useful information could be gleaned while playing. I don't play this type of on-line game, but their set-up is a good analogy for facing the challenge of "Where do I start?"

When you sign up, you select a character. That's a good starting point. Ask yourself Who Am I? Who do I want to be? For me, I'm a survivor and want to be more thoroughly prepared, able to sustain myself and help others. I've got my Avatar!

These games initially provide a basic weapon/tool and you earn more as you progress through the levels. OK, What do I have in my home right now and how long would it last? That's a broad question. We're newbies on Level 1, categorizing may help.
As already suggested in the companion topic: Start with provisions for a week or two. Food, Water, Medicine and Hygiene. Consider safe/secure storage and transportability if you have to suddenly leave. What should I take? This will depend on transportation and transportability. It's like planning a camping trip, there's only so much room in the car, and you can't use a TV in the woods.

My house was partially looted after Hurricane Hugo and they took my cable TV box. I've never figured why someone would steal an item completely useless at the time and of little value in the future.

Level 1, Task 1 in this imaginary internet game: Take an inventory of what you have, Food, Water, Medicine, Hygiene, organize and secure it.

And if you want to play ahead to Task 2, review the hurricane preparation and check lists on websites for The Weather Channel, NOAA, and other news organizations. Preparing for a period of self-reliance is basically the same as preparing for a major storm and it's aftermath.








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Preparing to evacuate your home is emotional, but not nearly as emotional as being ill-prepared. We're faced with the question "What must I leave behind?" Growing up in a materialistic age, having family items I want to pass on to my daughter, this question tears at my heart. Addressing it beforehand is one less thing to deal with in an emergency.

On the road, leaving before Hurricane Hugo struck, I realized all my daughter's baby things were left in the attic. It was all I could do to hold back the sobs. I knew the storm would be bad and hadn't slept for 2 days, helping others and preparing myself. With the possibility of my home destroyed, I was beyond emotionally frazzled. But this story had a happy ending. Although damaged, my little house was habitable and only partially looted. So many lost so much, homes, family treasures, and family members. I was both humbled and thankful, and felt guilty for being upset over baby clothes. After the storm, we dealt daily with the destruction. This compounded and extended the emotional weariness.

If you have been through a disaster or period of extreme hardship, you understand. The reason I share is for those truly blessed, who have not experienced something similar. Please don't be in denial, thinking this can't happen to me. There is no place on this planet immune to a disaster, be it natural or man-made. The only thing we can do is prepare, remain alert to potential dangers, and live each day to the fullest.

It might seem irrelevant if you don't live near the coast, but hurricanes can affect broad areas and millions of people. Their destruction includes damaging winds, flooding, tornados, and probably why there is so much preparation information. This can be applied to any evacuation scenario. What would you do if given 2 days to leave? How about 2 hours?

Each situation is unique and our response would be based on 2 factors: Why we are leaving, and the probability of returning to a habitable, safe home. However, the initial planning is exactly the same for any evacuation scenario.

Where do I go? How do I get there? What do I take?

Having your supplies organized/prepared, and the answer to these 3 questions completes Task 2 in our imaginary game.


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Where do I go?
For a local/regional disaster, we get out of the affected area.
For a widespread/national crisis, we'll need to get out and away from large populations. Emergency response and resources will be overrun and exhausted in short measure. If we have established a network of friends and family, and made prior arrangements, we'll have a place to go.

How do I get there?
Forget any type of public transportation. In a time of crisis, it will be unreliable and probably not safe. If you don't have personal transportation, find someone in your network who does and who you trust. Be ready when they arrive, or to get to them quickly.

What do I take?
This depends on why you have to evacuate, whether you'll be able to return in resonable time, and space available. You may be surprised how much can be crammed into a gym bag in 5 minutes, but you also have to carry it. Versatile, sturdy clothing, high protein snacks, a small blanket, first aid kit, multipurpose tool (Leatherman or good Swiss Army knife) and water bottles can prepare and sustain you for a few days travel. Many have made it through a crisis with much less.

If space is available, increase water, food, medical supplies and include a hand crank radio/flashlight, matches and personal defense items.

A good "bug-out" bag should be sturdy, weather resistant, and easy to carry. Dress for safety and in layers. Protective footware with socks is imperative.

Please add if I've missed something important. It's late.


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In any crisis, communication is of great importance. But unfortunately, it's one of the first resources to be overrun and diminished. Please don't plan on cell phones being of any use.

If there is possible/probable threat of a terrorist attack, cell phone service will be automatically cut off for the entire country. This is a safety precaution as cell phones can be used to trigger bombs.

In a weather emergency, towers and circuits are damaged and overloaded. It will be very hard to get through. After Hurricane Hugo, it took me 8 hours to reach a neighbor to confirm my house was still there. I was using a landline.

Diminshed communication is the primary reason for making prior arrangements for a place to go. Find and confirm your safe place, and inform those who need to know. Working these things out now allows for a quick response. While others are scrambling, you can already be on your way.


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There are a few alternatives to cell phones that can provide much needed communication during a crisis and use a variety of power sources.

Ham radios can provide for local and wide-range communication. The range is based on output and antenna capabilities. Ham radio operators have assisted with many disasters, and there are clubs across the country. If interested, but can't find a group, contact your local Fire/Rescue. If there is one, they will have the information.

CB Radios are a good alternative for local communication. But there is a security issue. As teens, we played a CB game called Fox and Hound. The "Fox" would hide and give clues to their location over the CB. The "Hounds" would consider the clues, but also measure the transmission strength to gauge their proximity and determine direction to the Fox's CB radio. If you want to be secluded, talking on a CB can give away your location. However, you can always listen in privacy for useful information.

CB radios come in all sizes and with a variety of power sources. Hardwired units, vehicle mounted, and hand-held units with rechargeable batteries, or plugs for car battery power. Antenna range is important, so consider an upgrade if shopping. I have a hand-held 40 channel Cobra model with a magnetic base antenna, powered by auto power port or cigarette lighter. The range is about 30 miles.

Two-way radios are another communication resource, not the cell phones with 2 way capabilities. These use cell towers for transmission and won't work if service is cut off. Range is much lower with these two-way units, but they could be useful when traveling in a group with several vehicles.

If family/friends still have land line phones, include a written list of their number and address in your wallet. All phones have memory now and we seldom have to actually dial a number. Don't rely on anything electronic to store this information.


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I agree. And, I'm greatful for all of your help and tips. I see things but it's fast. I'd know what to do if it were just me, but puting it out there for everone else is a bit different. I have organizational issues, lol.

People will need something other than cell. See, I see something happening here in the near, say 4 years, maybe 5 1/2, but it's not the thing that happens where the cell and utilities are down, that's much later.

But I do see panic and groccery stores unreliable. That is more in the near future. Thanks for helping smile
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During a crisis, personal safety and self defense can be an issue. I remember watching the news in the wake of Katrina and hearing gunfire in the back ground. This issue grows more pressing as the crisis period continues and intensifies. Security can be a need experienced within only a day or two. With our current rate of unemployment not subsiding, there are many who have little. Their supplies may be destroyed, stolen, or used up within a short time.

Would you place yourself in danger to provide for your children? What would you do to protect your child from danger? These are HARD questions that need to be considered, in the hopes facing them now may lead to solutions which can prevent these circumstances.

Each of us is "hardwired" with the Flight or Fight response. If you can't flee from a danger, you'll have to fight. Are you prepared to defend yourself, family and property?

There are many proposed regulations for weapons pending, in spite of the recent court victory in Chicago and our 2nd Amendment Right. The current administration has granted authority for things usually voted on by Congress to various agencies. New regulations by these agencies may be in place before we know what's going on. States are also enacting regulations.

If you have the means, please take care of this as soon as possible. Which ever modes of self defense you choose, become proficient with them.


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Today is the anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. Over 1800 people died in New Orleans. People drowned, were killed by debris, some died of dehydration, starvation, and untreatable health issues. Others were murdered. Thousands lost their homes and all possessions. WHY? They knew the storm was bad and headed toward them. They knew they lived in areas subject to flooding. They knew the levees were not well maintained. Or Did They? Why weren't they paying attention and acting responsibly?

This was not widely reported, but there is proof of its accuracy. The President's staff worked feverously to get the Governor and Mayor started on evacuations. Fema was activated, troops and supplies were prepared, as the White House waited on the Governor's authorization. I have no clue why the Governor and Mayor of New Orleans delayed. I remember this vividly, news video showing the death and suffering at the Dome and another shot of a flooded parking lot FULL of school buses. Why were these not used to get people to safety?

Think about Mississippi. Several towns along the coast were obliterated, people died. How much news coverage was on this area? Why the difference? Yes, New Orleans has more people and therefore more losses, but I think that is not the only difference.

I'm not being political here, there is an important point. We cannot rely on our leaders, local/state/federal in a crisis or disaster. We cannot allow ourselves to live in the Fairy Tale, the government will take care of everything. The Hard Truth - They Can't! They Won't!

Each of us is free to choose, but personal responsibility walks hand-in-hand with that freedom. I refuse to turn over my personal responsibility to the pipe dream government will provide for me. In doing so, I relinquish the freedom to take care of myself and my own. I accept my responsibility and I'm acting on it.

In this week's news coverage of Katrina's anniversary, there was a report on the "Great Wall of New Orleans," a 20+ foot reinforced concrete wall, a few miles long to protect against storm surge. The reporter asked an engineer what the locals thought about it. Her response, most of them don't know about it. WHAT?

Sooo, people returned to the area, repaired, rebuilt and continue to remain clueless about measures to protect them in the future. They survived Katrina and still live in the Fairy Tale?

Will you accept personal responsibility and be prepared to travel quickly to your safe place, with resources for at least a few days? Or will you be on a rooftop, or down in a cellar with no food/water, no means to protect yourself, waiting to be rescued? More HARD questions. Tackling them now prepares us mentally and physically for when they must be answered.



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I do apologize for all the hurricane references. It's the major disaster I survived. I've been working on a brochure about preparations for work, and with 2 in the Atlantic right now, it's that time of year. I have Hurricane on the Brain! I need to step back from HARD questions for a bit. I struggle with them too.

Most of us know about networks and even if we don't call it that, have our family and/or group of friends we help out and share with. These groups are a tremendous asset. There is strength in numbers, not to mention support, additional supplies, knowledge, etc.

We've used the word so much, and it's really a simple concept. Establishing a network is basically making new, good friends. Let's face it, the "cliques" in high school, exist in society as well. Some kids remain in a single clique, other kids have friends in several and can move easily from one to another. Others are in social limbo, with no clique accepting them.

In high school I moved easily between several cliques. But it was different in college, I was in social limbo. So I made friends with others in limbo, and we joked about creating our own "Greek" group named Anti-Soriety Students. Can you imagine a Frat house with those letters? Any little thing in common can be the basis of a network/friendship.

Service organizations, like Rotary, Lions Club, Booster Clubs, the list is long. These are organized networks with officers and managers. Your family is the network you're born or adopted into and it's organized, i.e. grown-up table, kid's table. Your friends are probably the most unstructured network, but there's generally a leader when the need arises. Who calls everyone and gets the ball rolling when a friend needs some help?

To be in a network, you have to contribute something, dues, volunteer hours. It's exactly the same, to have friends you have to be one. But Caulbearer11 made an excellent point in the companion topic. You may not think you have anything to offer, or contribute, but a good network manager will recognize your value and put it to use. Each of us is valuable in different ways.

Many of us grew up in small towns. Our extended family was fairly close, we knew most if not all our neighbors and everyone knew our parents. Sadly, things are different now. I still live in a small town, but have only met 4 of my closet neighbors. I'm ashamed to say we only greet each other. My "friend" network is pretty spread out, and that can be a good thing. My family is very spread out! Kid and parents all in different states. I need to work on my local network.

For over a year, Elleise has been advising us to "grow" not just food, but networks. This is one preparation with immediate benefits. Get involved in something you enjoy and make some new, good friends.



Last edited by lcp012586; 08/29/10 11:26 PM.

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Networks, yes, icp. I can't stress that enough. Our organizations are far too dependent on the "rules of the road" and what I feel anyway is that those road rules are going to change. So you're going to need that look in the eye type person. The one you just know a truth when you look into their eyes.

You'll need to know that look to get through the changes where people will just say about anything. Not only because they may want something but because they are lost too and may believe one thing when just the opposite is needed to survive. Their passions may not be the truths of survival, but more of something they'll go to every extent, to their last breath believing.


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Elleise makes a very good point. When we're out making new friends, unfortunately we have to be a little "picky" about the ones we include in our support network. Trustworthy and honest people, those you can look in the eye and who look you in the eye, these people will be good in your network.

Keep your "gut gauge" activated. If you get a "hinky" feeling around someone, there's a reason for that. They could seem, or actually be knowledgable and resourceful, but there's that little voice in the back of your head saying "wait a minute," or that strange feeling in your tummy when you're around them. Pay attention. I'm not suggesting not associating with them on any level. You might learn some valuable things to share here. It's just they may not be well suited for your core network.

It's exciting to make new friends. We get to know each other and share things. This is another point of caution Caulbearer11 raised. If it's known you're stocking up and preparing, guess whose house gets looted 1st in a crisis. It's unfortunate that secrecy must be a part of our preparations, but it is a necessary part.

This exact precaution is openly stated on survival websites. I've added the Crisis Cooker to my wish list. It's a small grill/oven/heat source that uses propane, charchoal or wood. Their website cautions customers to buy charcoal in small amounts over a period of time to not raise suspicions.

When the same advice comes from multiple, unrelated sources, I value and heed it.


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I had some things come together today and just had to share. About time I added some positive vibes here.

I had posted in other topics of plans to contact the county emergency management director and sheriff, using hurricane preparedness as the basis of discussion about county-wide security. Our county is unique geographically, a good bit rural and with only 3 major roads. With minimal man-power, the roads could be completely cordoned off. Yes, I've thought about this, and it could provide additional security and time for all the residents.

Our Emergency Management Agency is relatively new. Talked with the director today and he was more than receptive! He remembers quite well the horrendous evacuation in the late 90's. HE broached the subject of our county being overrun with evacuees from the large city nearby. Apparently, NO ONE in his office has lived through a hurricane, or any other major crisis, OMG!!

His secretary had been out sick and returned today to face an avalanche on her desk. I suggested we meet next week when things got caught up. Monday is a holiday, he wants to meet Tuesday! There was an distinct urgency in his voice, and he thanked me several times for calling. I don't know how that pump got primed, but I'm so thankful. Ran into my boss at the grocery store and asked about sharing the brochure I've been working on. She completely agreed!

AND, I added a couple, very good friends, to our network. In the midst of this I had to run an errand and was channel surfing the car radio. The beat of a song caught my ear. Have no clue the artist or name of the song, but the words of the chorus were

"I know these pieces will fit"

I was a stunned, a "good" stunned. I've been working at this large puzzle for over a year, trying my best to find pieces, not yet even concerned if they fit. Today, a guy singing on the radio tells me they will. Some might think it completely coincedental and I'm way too presumptuous. But I don't believe in coincedence and can presume all I want.

It was a Good Day!


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Excellent work, lcp! What a great idea to contact your emergency management team and get them involved...your boss, too! I'm always wary to bring this stuff up to people...where we live it's such a safe little bubble, especially for the locals who have no idea what the "real" world is like -- this includes my family members, unfortunately. I wonder if our emergency management people would be open to it...sheesh, now that I'm thinking about it, I don't even know if we HAVE one!

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My boss, is much more a friend. I work part-time, mostly from home. Last year when my dreams returned, I was preparing for a trade show. She knew something was wrong. But, she was also receptive and is preparing. She attended a seminar on how to use coupons and sales to stock up on groceries/supplies affordably. With her huge baseball card book of coupons, she did VERY well yesterday, saved over $90.

I've been wary about bringing this up with local officials. Done it twice and both times received the "crazy person" treatment. I was immediately, but respectfully, dismissed. Those specific issues had to be addressed directly, no way to start with a general discussion.

However, the civil unrest, violence and devastation so many have seen in dreams and visions could be started by various events. This provides generalities we can use in discussions with the locals. If we approach them with a plausible concern for the area and be willing to help, we can't be so easily dismissed.

The easiest for me is a hurricane. We have a history. I'm prepared to address this specific event to establish credibility. Then I can gradually expand to other scenarios. The EMA director was very interested in my experiences after Hurricane Hugo. This covers the "re-active" part of his job, dealing with the aftermath. My goal is to get him thinking about the "pro-active" part.

He's already started, giving preparedness seminars. If he will include other possibilities in these presentations, I can reach out to many more through a conventional and accepted source. Caulbearer11 has shared that things will get bad in the large cities very quickly and spill into the surrounding areas within hours. Living in a surrounding area, quick response with pro-active measures is of great importance to me.

If your city or county doesn't have an emergency management division, it's probably handled by the fire chief, police chief or sheriff. If you contact them, begin the discussion with a crisis that already has, or could easily affect your area. Be prepared with thoughtful questions and most importantly thoughtful answers and suggestions. These civil servants don't readily accept information from "unconventional" sources. They are not trained for it, and have their hands full with information from conventional ones.

So be a conventional source, a concerned, helpful citizen with reasonable questions and suggestions. Please remember, the instant you mention dreams or visions, their eyes will glaze, ears close, brain shut down and you will be dismissed.


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So true lcp I know that glazed look well. And useing the psychological approach, what people can handle, is the perfect thing to do!

I have to use the same approach if I have a dream about someone's family. I take the approach of starting with a person's strong points and enter in a potential issue that may end up affecting them in the near future and ways it could be handeled safely.


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occasional lurker here... When I read:


Keep your "gut gauge" activated. If you get a "hinky" feeling around someone, there's a reason for that. They could seem, or actually be knowledgable and resourceful, but there's that little voice in the back of your head saying "wait a minute," or that strange feeling in your tummy when you're around them. Pay attention. I'm not suggesting not associating with them on any level. You might learn some valuable things to share here. It's just they may not be well suited for your core network.



It really struck a cord with me.
I used to ignore that gut reaction and try to be friends with everyone but after being burned or let down so many times I don't bother anymore.
I meet people and have an immediate distrust of so many of them so I just mentally block them from my life. I pretty much ignore them and go about my day, and hope they will do the same with me. Probably not the smartest move when I work with them but I haven't figured out a better way to deal with them.

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Sharpiegirl, you've raised a good point. There are people who can be useful, but not a good fit in your network, for any number of reasons. For me, the primary attributes I'm looking for in potential network members is trustworthiness, honesty, open minds and level heads.

When working with people I feel uneasy around, I place boundaries around my personal life, and interact only with work issues. I don't ignore them or personal questions, just respond vaguely and change the subject. Some would much rather discuss themselves or gossip about others. I let them rattle on and listen closely. You can learn so much about a person listening closely.

I've made this mistake, so please consider it. I was in a work situation which included those I felt uneasy with. It was the situation, not necessarily the people, that triggered the gut reaction. I got it confused, a mistake not easily recovered.


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There are 4 things we need to sustain life.
Air, Water, Food, Shelter

Here's some items and information which may be helpful.

Air - Do you have any face masks? I have chemical sensitivities and clean up fire/water/trauma damage, so I need them. The ones you use for spray painting can be helpful for air-borne viruses, nasty smells after a storm, traveling through smoky areas. Can you imagine how bad the smell is in a refridgerator after 2 weeks with no power? Take my word - it's awful! These are inexpensive, available at any hardware store, and even cheaper when you buy a large pack.

Water - Do you have bleach? A gallon of water can be purified for drinking with only 8 drops of bleach. Let the water sit for an hour or so and the smell and taste will dissipate. There is a website with additional information.
I still haven't figured out how to put links in a post, so bear with me, copy/paste and add the www's.

csgnet.com/h2oemergencypurifycalc.html

Boiling is best. 1 minute does the trick, 3 to 5 minutes at elevations higher than 5000 ft. This website has a lot of information, worth reading and printing.

Food - I'll split this into 2 categories
Emergency rations for evacuation and Long-term supplies

If you need to evacuate, you'll need water and food/snacks that are easily transported, pre-packaged, and will satisfy your hunger. Traveling to your safe place will take much, much longer than you think. You will need food. I left early for my parents' house the morning of Hurricane Hugo. The normal 2 hour drive took almost 6 hours. That was easy, even with a toddler. When we evacuated for Hurricane Floyd, it was a 4 hour drive that took 13 HOURS! Had I not known some backroads, it would have been 5 hours longer. Some were stuck in slow moving traffic for 20+ hours. Others drove as far as they could and then slept in their cars.

I'm not sharing this as a deterent to evacuation, by no means. It could save your life. The point is to prepare and leave as quickly as you can. Even though our area was spared damage, I would rather evacuate than face again the aftermath of a Category 3 or 4 hurricane.

With the threat of a crisis, grocery stores are emptied in hours. If transportation is compromised, they won't be restocked and emergency aid will be delayed. The other night I watched an episode of Globe Trekker on PBS. It showed Amish people shopping in a grocery store. That surprised me. We are so dependent on stores and many don't have more than a few days of food on hand.

If you live in a safer area, not close to a major city, STOCK UP. Not only with processed foods, but also staples and seeds. Most seed packs are for a certain growing season. The majority are hybrid plants and the seeds they bare, more than likely sterile. There are several "vintage" seed companies which sell non-hybrids, but these too are packaged for a specific growing season. However, the seeds they bare will reproduce if gathered and stored correctly. There is also a company selling non-hybrid seeds, packaged to last a LONG time and still produce. They are a little expensive, but I'm saving up. The name is Survival Seeds.

When you stock up on food, storage and rotating your supply is very important. Why spend the money if it spoils. This takes some time, space and planning. I have an open cupboard in my kitchen and I keep a minimal amount of food in view. I have another larger cabinet in a different part of the house for the majority of my supply. I mark each can with the month/year of purchase. It's easier than trying to find and read the tiny expiration dates. The new items go to the back of my larger cabinet and the older stuff is placed in the open kitchen cupboard.

For boxed items, each is placed in a ziploc bag and sealed. This provides water resistance and discourages bugs being attracted to the cardboard. I've noticed it also helps the product stay fresher.

For staples like sugar, pasta, rice, grits, flour, corn meal I use clean peanut butter jars, or glass cannisters with the locking lids and seal. Glass is best, but my husband loves peanut butter, so I use what I have. As long as the plastic containers are kept out of sunlight and in a cool/dry place, they should be good for a while. You could also use the larger mason jars. I fill each up to the lid to minimize air. Make sure the containers are clean/sterilized and your cabinet is STURDY!!!

I started thinking about the pre-packaged meal kits and mixes I buy. For many, you must add things other than water, i.e. milk, butter, eggs, etc. Then I started looking for alternatives and found some. There are inexpensive mashed potato pouches and muffin mixes for which you only add water. Extra bonus - they are good! The expiration period is long and quite a few fit in a gallon ziploc bag for convenient storage.

We've grown so used to these mixes and kits, many of us don't even know how to cook from scratch. I lucked up a while back and found a few cookbooks from the 30's, 40's at a thrift store. The information in these little treasures is amazing. I know how to pluck and clean a chicken, which months in the year are safe to eat squirrel and coon and have recipes!


Last edited by lcp012586; 09/01/10 01:35 AM.

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Have you considered MRE's, they aren't just for the Army anymore! "Meals Ready to Eat" were developed years ago for the military. As a teen, my Mother would bring them home occassionally. They weren't that good, but it was a fun novelty.

Good news, they've gotten a lot better tasting and are now available at most Army/Navy and Hunting/Fishing stores. Hunters use them a lot, and they can be prepared with minimal resources. They are packaged to fit anywhere, survive, and are formulated for nutrition, except for the preservatives. A few MRE's in your "bug-out" bag could get you through several days with no other food source. Preparation kits are also available.

Along with food requirements, we must also consider how to prepare it. Any period of time without electricity or natural gas renders all appliances useless. We have a propane grill and a Coleman camp stove. We chose a camp stove which can use both Coleman fuel and unleaded gas. But in a crisis, gasoline will be far too valuable to cook with and our propane supply won't last long.

There are alternatives and I've already mentioned the Crisis Cooker. This small, portable grill/oven can be fueled with charchoal, wood, or propane. It is very efficient. The website states you can cook a meal with just a few pieces of charcoal. But with any grill, you'll need to start a fire. Elleise has already suggested stocking up on cigarette lighters. Also consider waterproof matches, or the kind which can be struck on any surface and seal them in a ziploc bag for weather resistance.

If none of these are available, do you know how to make fire? Do you know what "tender" is? Tender is anything easily combustible with a few sparks. The peeling bark of a cedar tree, pine needles and dried leaves/grass are excellent tender. Gather some tender, pine cones, small and large sticks. Dig a shallow hole, or place rocks in a circle for the fire. Wad and bunch your tender into a ball, like a bird's nest. You need some fibrous material to hold your tender ball together. Build a little tepee with small twigs in your fire circle. Now the hard part

Banging rocks together will make sparks. Flint is best, is hard, and a small piece will start many fires. If you only have wood, use the "Rub" method. This takes time and energy, but does work. Get a small sturdy stick and make a slightly pointed edge, like a dull pencil. Clean the bark from a larger, wider stick or limb, and carve out a shallow, thin channel about 10 inches long. Use dry wood, not something fresh off a tree. Your stick should fit snugly and smoothly in the channel. The slightly pointed end increases contact area and efficiency. Have your tender prepared and close. Vigorously and firmly rub the small stick back and forth in the channel.

The rubbing generates heat and shaves off bits of the sticks which accumulate at the end of your channel. When it's hot enough, you'll see little wisps of smoke and then tiny embers. Gently place your tender ball over the embers and blow lightly. Once the tender is burning, carefully place it in your fire circle under your stick tepee. If needed, add a little more tender and pine cones. Save your fire sticks! All that rubbing has hardened them. Starting your next fire will be a little easier.

Another type of the "rub" method is using a bow drill. Native Americans have used this easily assembled tool for eons to start fires and make beads. Instructions for making and using them can be found at eHow.com

Building a fire is like feeding a baby. You have to be patient and slowly work up to the bigger limbs. Wind can blow out your efforts to make fire. Have some way to shield the area you're working in. If you're safe and staying put for a while, please remember this. It's much easier to keep a fire going than to start another one!

Also consider security in deciding where to put your fire circle. A camp fire at night is visible at long distance. If there is no way to shield the light, dig your fire hole deeper.

A fire can be started quickly and easily with these 3 things: a car battery with just a little "juice" in it, 2 pieces of wire and some steel wool. Wrap the bare wire around the battery ports, touch the bare ends of the wires to opposite sides of the steel wool. Protect your hands! Use insulated wire with just the ends stripped bare, or wrap bare wire with something that doesn't conduct electricity well, like cloth. Steel wool is very thin, will heat up fast from the current and ignite. Use the red hot steel wool to get your tender burning, then extinguish it to use again.


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Shelter is also a basic for survival. In a broader sense, it includes clothing. If your safe place is in a different climate, you need to consider what type of clothing you'll need while there. For most of us our safe place will be close enough not to have different weather conditions. However, if you live in a lower area and your safe place is in the hills or mountains, prepare accordingly.

If you need to evacuate, dress in layers and protect your feet with sturdy shoes and socks. If you don't need this protection during the evacuation, you may need it afterwards. Forget the flip-flops!

Shelter can be constructed with almost anything, from a piece of plastic to tree limbs and brush. If you find yourself out in nature with no shelter, here's a few tips that could be useful.

Avoid sleeping directly on the ground at night. Even with a fire and clothes on, the ground cools and will suck body heat from you. Do like the other animals, make a bed of something for insulation. However, your insulation may have unwelcomed bed fellows. "Smoke" it thoroughly near the fire and they will flee the heat and smoke. I watched an episode of Survivor Man filmed fairly close to my home. A cold front came through and he spent the first night shivering. Don't know why he didn't notice the weather change approaching. He insulated his little hut with spanish moss for the next night. They didn't show him "smoking" the moss over his fire. If he didn't, he went home EAT UP with chiggers/redbugs!

Get a Boy Scout manual, or look on-line and learn how to make a shelter with local, nature provided materials. Most kids love to build "Forts," and this could be a fun learning experience for everyone. If you goof it up, figure out what was done wrong and work together to fix it. Troubleshooting skills like this will be needed, and also need to be taught and passed on.

If you find yourself in a bug infested area, use dirt or mud to cover your exposed skin. It won't be pretty, but can keep the skeeters away. I've heard from numerous sources, over the years, mosquitoes are more attracted to dark colors. However, a thin layer of dirt or mud camouflages our bare skin somehow.

On a recent episode of Swamp People, they said fat from alligators is so nasty, the Native Americans used it for bug repellant. Not recommending hunting alligators, but that could be a handy bit of info for my area.


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Here are a few websites with supplies and tips worth reading.

surviveandthrivesupply.com
This company carries a small selection of supplies, from camping knives to water purification tablets. But they have a nice selection of seeds, packaged in a triple layer mylar bag with a shelf life of up to 5 years. These are "renewable" seeds. The plants produce seeds which can be harvested for the next growing season. The prices average $2 a pack. That's the same price I paid for organic seeds at a home supply store this spring. I haven't ordered from this company, but I am considering it.

wilderness-survival-skills.com
This site is awesome and has tips and comments submitted by those who use them. From building a fire (forgive my spelling, it's tinder, not tender) to all kinds of shelters, even book reviews. One comment suggested shopping thrift stores to obtain camping/survival supplies affordably. That one peaked my interest, I love to go junkin"
Good stuff on this one, way too much for me to even touch on in a post.

wilderness-survival.net
Even though the name is wilderness survival, this website has tips and information for various crises and disasters. It also includes the FEMA Guide on preparations. I read through to see if there was anything to add to the pamplet I'm doing up for work. This amazes me, despite what was experienced after Katrina, and Ike, FEMA still recommends preparing for "at least 3 days." 3 days is better than nothing, but preparing for 7 to 10 days is much more realistic, although harder for many.

Does anyone have other informative sources to share? I think Bella has a rule against asking readers to join other forums. Elleise, please correct me and provide some guidance here.

*Disclaimer* Some of the websites I've mentioned have forums. I haven't joined or read through these forums, and I'm not asking anyone to. I'm referring these websites based on the general content only, which is available to all viewers.


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Are you Ready? An In-depth Guide to Citizen Preparedness.
This is FEMA's "book," available for download in pdf format. The full version is 204 pages and 21MB, so don't hit the print button accidentally. They also have some DVD's and other brochures. I've read through a few of these, and I will not comment on government excess, except to say they must be paying the authors by the word.

If you can make it through the wordiness and "governmentese" there is actually some good information. When you have an hour or two, a pot of coffee and a comfy chair, the website is

fema.gov/areyouready

It took about 10 minutes to download the full version and save to my desktop. Now I can finish it at my leisure.


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Thank you for researching these sources. It's something i would have a very difficult time doing. You really are that go to gal, that gets the tough stuff done!

Btw, you're fine with what you're posting and it's more than resourceful that there's a central location where people can come, even if they may not feel the need right this second, at least in the back of their mind they may go, you know...i read something somewhere, and it's there when they do need it.

If you want, I can go back in and try to make links of the web addresses you've posted.

Let me know if that's o.k.



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That would be great and add convenience. I've been to these websites and have not experienced any computer issues. However I personally prefer not to use links and go directly to the website. I've gotten 3 trojans on my computer this year from links. At $90 a pop to clean, I can't afford to risk using them.

I know it's a little extra to copy/paste or re-type, but it's much safer and I wouldn't want to impose on your time.


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How much do you REALLY know about nutrition? Our bodies can go many days without food, but only 2 or 3 without water. Short-term, a few days, a few weeks, we can scavenge and make it through, but what about longer?

What do our bodies require long-term to sustain growth and promote health? Everyone knows we need calories, the fuel for our bodies. But with all the nutrition information available, many still equate calories to sugar. That's accurate, but not quite. Being diabetic, learning about food was mandatory. The important source of calories is carbohydrates.

When you eat a candy bar you can get a sugar rush. That's instant fuel and the body uses or stores it quickly. When you eat a bowl of oatmeal, something made with whole grains, it has to be digested. The carbohydrates are converted to sugar slowly and evenly. The energy from a bowl of oatmeal, or piece of whole grain bread lasts much longer than the energy from something with processed sugars like a candy bar.

For development in children and overall health for adults, we also need trace minerals. Natural foods, not processed, rich in carbohydrates, such as beans, fruits and berries, contain the trace minerals from the soil they grew in. Ever wonder why they add vitamins and minerals to flour, white bread, breakfast cereal? All the processing strips them away. What they add back is not from the original, natural source and I wonder how much we actually absorb.

We also require protein, but not nearly as much as we typically eat. Those who choose not to eat any animal products, must supplement their diet with protein sources, such as soy, beans, nuts.

Calcium, this is a mineral that deserves special mention. Did you know that EVERY CELL in your body needs calcium to function? If it doesn't get enough, calcium is leached from the bones.

Several years ago I had a major health crisis. Everything the doctors did/prescribed made it worse. I finally found a Dr/Chiropractor/Bio-chemist who realized I didn't produce enough stomach acid to digest food. I didn't look it, but I was malnourished and this caused my illness. After taking the acid supplements, my stomach produced more, as predicted. I was taking 10 natural supplements, but the best was calcium. As soon as that was replenished and maintained, I got better quickly.

Calcium is so important. It's not only high in dairy products, but several greens, i.e. collards, broccoli. Thousands of years ago the maize/corn grown by the people in the Americas was not easily digested, and therefore not nutritional. Somehow, they figured out to add crushed shells to the cornmeal. This addition made the vitamins and minerals more digestable and beneficial. What was in the seashells? Among other things, Calcium.

If the time comes when we must provide for ourselves and truly live off the land, the knowledge of the Ancestors, combined with modern science will be invaluable. Reclaim it, learn it, share it. Use it to plan and grow a nutritionally balanced garden, or as the basis of your grocery list. If we start now to wean ourselves off the processed food and junk so readily available, we'll not only be healthier, but also more prepared for when/if these foods are not available. We can still treat and indulge ourselves, just less frequently.


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I don't have room for a garden. I don't have access to fresh foods. Are you sure?

We have a very small lot and most of it is deeply shaded. But there are a few spots for potted plants and small garden beds. My neighbor has a much larger yard and also grows indoors with plant lights in a spare room.

One thing to remember when growing indoors which has been scientifically proven, plants need sleep, just like we do. Don't leave the lights on 24/7. It's stressful on the plants.

If you don't have any space, are there community gardens in your area? These co-ops have experienced gardeners, most will be eager to barter knowledge for a little labor. In an hour or two with a good teacher, you can a lot while picking beans, pulling weeds, or setting out mulch. You might even return home with enough for supper.

Don't have a local community garden or co-op? How about a local Farmer's Market? These are popping up all over the place. You can talk with the growers, learn their methods, and establish a relationship as a frequent customer.

Those who know how to grow food are generally generous, down-to-earth people (pun intended). They may not share all their secrets, but are willing to help those who want to learn, with good intentions.


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Originally Posted By: lcp012586


If the time comes when we must provide for ourselves and truly live off the land, the knowledge of the Ancestors, combined with modern science will be invaluable.


That's the perfect statement lcp. There's a bio-chemical equation and so often we'll jump in the car and pick something up when we're feeling poorly.

Instinctively, I feel myself pulling further and further away from synthetic drugs and office visits and try more to understand my own personal reactions to the day to day, ie, when I'm feeling tired, what excercise, different types of vegetables and herbs do 40 minutes after I take them, and I've found interesting things.

I actually get tired, right after I eat something. When I have cravings, and I look back on what I have or haven't eaten, I find that those crvings are actually my body telling me I haven't had somehting in awhile that I need.

I was watching Man vs. the Wild the other night and I would never have known this, but if you haven't eaten or had anything to drink in awhile, if you come upon food, don't eat but for a little bit. It further dehydrates your already dehydrated body. Just eat enough until you can find a water source.

I didn't know that about the links either, viruses, ect. So, lets just keep it the way it is. It's good to kow. Thanks again for all your hard work. I know I for one am learning quite a lot! smile


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Multi-purpose items are so valuable in any crisis. Here's a short list of things you may already have and some uses you may not have considered.

Storage Bags - I'm referring to the heavier plastic or mylar type, such as freezer bags, and waterproof, larger storage bags. Freezer bags can be reused safely a few times, if washed thoroughly and air dried between each use. When my nephew was quarantined prior to heart surgery, my sister asked his cardiologist about this specifically. These bags provide weather/water resistance and can fit in small spaces. Roll or flatten before sealing to remove air and there's room for even more. Boaters use them to keep spare clothes dry. Soldiers use them to keep items/food free of dirt/sand. When my daughter was young, I carried a damp washcloth in a quart freezer bag for quick clean ups. I had a friend who spent 3 months traveling rural China. Upon returning commented she would loved to have had some.

Cheap, Plain Bars of Soap - Is there anything that can't be washed with plain soap? I recently read there's nothing significantly better. Despite all the anti-bacterial, anti-viral products available, a thorough wash with plain soap is all we really need, unless rendering first aid or doing surgery. Bar soap will last longer if it's allowed to air dry and harden after purchasing. Open the package and let it sit for a few days.

Plastic and Leather Work Gloves - In a crisis, we really need to protect our hands. Small cuts can get infected, and if untreated, cause illness and death. We may be doing strenuous, possibly unfamiliar activities, our hands will need protection. This is particularly important if you will be hunting small game. There is a reason squirrel, raccoon, possum and rabbit should be hunted and eaten ONLY in the colder months that have an "R" in the name (September through April). These animals have parasites deadly to humans. These parasites and their larvae can also be in the animal's scat (feces). The larvae are tiny, and if on our hands and we touch our mouth, eyes, ears, nose, or bare skin, we can endanger ourselves. This is especially important to teach children. When out in the woods, DO NOT touch your face except with cleaned/washed hands.

Lawn and Leaf Bags - These are thicker/stonger than regular trash bags. Cut 3 holes and you have a raincoat. Split the side seams and it's big enough to make a dry bed on wet ground, or a small cover for shelter. We keep a lawn/leaf bag in with each of our "bag" chairs. If we're at an event and it rains, we can quickly cover the chairs to keep them dry, or ourselves.

Quality Multi-purpose, Camping, Survival Tool/Knife - In an emergency, grabbing your kitchen knives or a tool box probably won't come to mind. One of these in your "Bug-Out" bag and you're set for many needs. Save up for a quality name brand one, don't bother with the cheap "knock-offs."

Epson Salt, Baking Soda and Vinegar - These are the "Trifecta" of First Aid/Health/Cleaning. Epson Salt helps with constipation, infections in small wounds, in the garden. Baking soda can be used for baking, insect bites, indigestion and deodorizing. Vinegar can be used to preserve food, clean, sooth the pain of burns, treat bruises and drinking a small amount each day is reported to be good for overall health. There are SO MANY uses for these 3 things.

I know I'm missing multi-purpose things here. Please add to the list!


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I think I read somewhere, glowsticks are a good substitute or back up incase you run out of batteries or rechargeables aren't taking anymore.

Also, Bic lighters and flint stones are better than matches. Dental floss, works for many make shift projects, twine, cheese cloth or netting of some type, hose possibly for straining or filtering. Shovel, small ax, bucket a set of stones, enough to encapsulate a fire if not more to retain heat.

Sunscreen...Im sure there's more but this is all I have right now.


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A few weeks ago I posted on self defense. I mentioned how the current administration is transferring power/authority from Congress to different Agencies, by-passing debate and the vote process. Again, I am not being political. It's not my intention to debate or support any sides of an issue, but to inform as best I can.

Recently the Environmental Protection Agency proposed a ban on lead in ammunition, based on possible contamination from spent ammo. Almost all traditional ammunition contains some lead. This ban would significantly increase production costs, and dramatically increase the price of ammunition.

Several groups have worked towards a complete ban on all weapons in the US. This has already been done in England and Canada, but it's much harder to accomplish with the 2nd Amendment in our Constitution. In the years since guns were turned in or confiscated in England, they have not experienced the reduction in crime and injury anticipated. The "Bad Guys" still get guns. Canada's ban confounded me, considering their vast wilderness areas with dangerous animals.

In the past, weapon regulation on a national level was a legislative issued handled by Congress. It's been stated by some the EPA's proposed regulation banning lead in ammo is a "backdoor" attempt at gun control. If bullets are significantly more expensive, fewer can afford them, rendering many guns useless without ammo.

Information about this proposed ban was made known, resulting in large opposition. For now, the ban has been put on the "back-burner," and EPA activities are being monitored. As stated in my previous post, agency regulations may be in place before we know about them, and it almost happened with this. If ammunition is part of your self defense preparations, consider addressing your supply immediately.

Whatever your chosen method of self defense, become proficient with it. This bears repeating! Do not rely on protection measures for which you are not trained and skilled.


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Was reading through some news articles from various resources and found another example of how new EPA regulations may be used to by-pass Congress.

With many in Congress reluctant to support "Climate Change" legislation which include taxes for energy consumption, regulations through the EPA are being drafted, based on protecting the environment by reducing pollution. The drafts have not been released, so be on the look-out. Remember these regulations are not voted on my Congress. They have no oversight other than by the courts, but only if challenged.

Whether it's a bill in Congress or a new regulation at the EPA, it's all in the wording. These regulations may appear to be targeting polluters. But how is the word "polluters" defined? If it's defined as excessive consumers, who defines what is excessive? Anything that refers to "consumers" in one way or another eventually refers to us all.

Please pay attention, educate yourself and prepare. It's not just important for when a crisis strikes. In taking care of these 3 things, even without the talents and abilities other possess, you may be able to discern when things begin to build up and can respond pro-actively.


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I wanted to put this down while it's here with me. i remember posting, people thinking they need fire arms and my words were na-ah...they'll want amunition.

Amunition is a back door way, believe it or not, by eliminating it, the politicians stay safe against the arms activists/votes, etc. It's a barganing tool they came up with behind the lcosed doors. This is why amunition more than arms came through.

There's some organization that parts the waters with this issue as well.


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Elleise, you posted about ammunition on 8/11 on the companion topic. Yet Another Validation! There are organizations and individuals keeping an eye on things in DC. The more they look, the more they find. However, that would hold true for any period in our Country's history. The difference now, our instant communication abilities make what they find more easily publicized to the citizenry.

Each of us has the ability to be better informed and involved. Hopefully, we'll continue to receive validations, especially on the organizations "parting the waters," and keeping us informed.

My meeting with the Emergency Management Director is tomorrow afternoon. I'll post afterwards. I'll be spending the morning getting centered for NO slip ups with the words Dream or Vision.

Last edited by lcp012586; 09/06/10 08:29 PM.

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If they are transfering congress' power, does that mean they aer getting rid of congress and if so, doesn't that put it more on a dictatorship, to an extent, without having a congress to approve or disapprove?

Tru;y haven't any clue. I know what I feel, but having the right terms, they just aren't there.


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Our federal government was set up with a system of checks and balances. The power was split between Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court. It's been many years since I studied this. If I get a part wrong, someone PLEASE correct me.
Congress drafts and passes legislation. The Court ensures they are in standing with the Constitution and the President's main responsibility (as I understand it) is management.

I think there are actually 2 things going on here. For well over a decade, many have commented on Federal Courts taking on more of the legislative process, rather than remaining neutral in their rulings. Basically saying you can't do this, but you can do that, or this is how WE intrepret this case. The problem, there is no WE in the Constitution. This can alter Congress' original intent for the legislation, or influence alterations. I was taught the Court was to rely solely on the Constitution, not exerting influence on Congress and the creation of legislation or the President.

The Office of the President can increase its power through its many agencies. This has been going on for a while. If you want something done and Congress won't support it, find an Agency that's somehow related and enact regulations, rather than passing laws. This increases the President's scope of powers and control. You can't get rid of Congress, but its power and relevance can be reduced.

I've been re-learning about government over the last year. I honestly don't think the Presidential branch was suppose to have all these agencies. It can shift the balance of power that was so well thought out by truly visionary men. The purpose of a government of 3 branches with checks and balances was to prevent power/authority becoming centralized within one branch.

Webster defines Dictator as "a ruler with absolute power and authority." I think a dictatorship/monarchy was precisely what our Founding Fathers were set on avoiding.



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My meeting this afternoon with the Emergency Management Director went VERY well! We discussed several points of crisis preparation and security. He even took notes! YEAH!
(hear it, write it, remember it)

He "jumped on" a few of the ideas and suggestions I had prepared, and I volunteered to help with organizing information after my daughter's wedding in November. He grabbed the copy of my brochure and a company pen too. Other crises were discussed broadly, but I did feel comfortable enough with our line of discussion to address those fleeing the near-by large city in cars and on foot. I also asked about the legality of cordoning off the interstate and 2 other main roads for a County Lock-down, and included local resources to minimize manpower requirements for this.

I arrived a little early and acknowledged it, was dressed professionally, and had a check list of topics which I referred to. There was a clock on the wall and I made sure we didn't run but a few minutes over the hour scheduled.

I was certainly NOT dismissed and thanked a few times. I left saying that as soon as I get my daughter married, I'd get back with him to see how I could help. It was a very positive meeting and I'm so proud, I didn't slip up, not once!


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Preparing our children for a crisis is very important. The goal is not to scare, but prepare. My parents were awesome at this. My Father grew up on a little farm and my Mother grew up quite poor. I am so fortunate that both are extremely creative and resourceful.

Growing up, every vacation or get-away was a camping trip. We started with a large tent and then upgraded to a pop-up camper. We also cleared a portion of the yard for a garden. I learned by example how to use what's available and to be creative in using what I have for various needs. I'm also blessed with a husband who is very creative and practical.

As a single parent, living in a rural area, I shared these skills with my daughter as an adventure. We built tents and lean-to's, learned to fish and catch crabs. We observed and learned as our neighbor planted and cared for the huge garden in front of our house. We took time to watch animals (we had many) and to watch the sky and weather. When I married, we continued these activities. We did many "experiments" to see what we could learn together.

A child's brain is a sponge and they should be included in our preparations in a positive way. With 24/7 news coverage of bad things happening all over the world, our children can be affected. But we can take those frightening images and use them to not only teach, but also provide a sense of security through preparedness. If your child sees something scary, it's reassuring to know their parents have a plan. Explain the plan on their level and ask them to help in some way.

Play doctor to teach first aid on baby dolls and teddy bears. Teach your children to cook safely and let them prepare a meal for everyone to enjoy. Baking is a great way to learn about fractions. Do experiments and learn together. These activities promote curiosity, a desire to learn, and provide a sense of accomplishment. They teach trouble-shooting skills and foster creativity.

When we start out with them young, we can impress with all that we know, but also show by example that learning something new is important. These lessons will be retained, even through the teenage years, when parents "don't know anything."


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Congratulations!!!! And very, VERY, well done.

It won't always be this difficult to bring about unconventional information to the table. I actually see a time where, they actually implement it in business, gov't and even cirriculums of study in the future.

Your logical approach is perfect! We're still in that go-between stage where people are still having not only to break ground, but undo some of the harm scam artists left behind with quick money.

I find I can slip in information, through a side door myself, by starting on a topic that's of concern to the people involved and ease the tidbits in subtley.

I have only had to approach professionally one time, other than that I'm usually in cut off jean shorts and a T-shirt. But I had an overhead projector and a nice full-length skirt and blouse. So, you're right about presentation.

To be honest, if I never had to wear shoes, I'd be just fine with that...but "hippy-chic" doesn't go over too well when you are trying to make that logical deduction of the information you do have coming through as well as a solution.

It isn't being correct or shocking people around you that's the brass ring to all of this, it really is, as you've proven, the ability to work behind the scenes to help as many people as possible, avoid as much unecessary chaos, discomforts and harships, as humanly and spiritually possible smile

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 09/08/10 07:01 PM.

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This is how I spent my daughter's early years with her - diaper and all sitting in the garden while I weeded and plucked off what I taught her as, "Nature's Candy" (those sweet cherry and grape tomatoes).

From there we grew pumpkins, squash, peppers, cucomber's and herbs. We dried the seeds and the herbs and by the time she was 3, she was placing them in glass bottles and labling them.

We camped outside, collected timber, composted and did wierd things to goffer(t) holes as she called them, lol. But in all everything, though I was teaching her survival to an extent, how to cook and grow what you need, it was all done in a fun and entertaining fashion with chores of course in order to have that fun and she latched on to it like a natural!

It's amaizing the things you take for granted and don't even know it, like how to have a back-up/waterproof system in place for inclemental wather, storage, supplies, what keeps and doesn't without ice, etc. Making a fire if you don't happen to have fuel on hand all those things. So, it's kind of nice to pretend in your own back yard where you can gradually get good at it and take breaks and if you do need something it's within reach and it sticks with you in the future.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 09/08/10 07:26 PM.

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Times are SO hard for SO many of us right now. Some barely have enough to pay the rent/house payment, with little or none left over for survival supplies. If you have been working on your network, it's almost certain to include member(s) less fortunate than yourself, mine does.

For those of us with the means to prepare, we must also consider those in our network who don't. It's just my husband and me, but I'm currently ready with 4 weeks of food/supplies for 8 people. I'm working on doubling that by the end of the year. Somewhere I posted my husband suggested a storage area I had not thought of. It's cleverly hidden, with enough cubic feet for another month's worth. We only need to weather/water proof it.

I'm not the only one taking this to what some would consider extreme measures. We know a couple who can everything and each closet in their house is filled with reinforced shelves and food. They eat from one and then move onto the next, replenishing at every opportunity. Friends and neighbors bring excess from their gardens and nothing goes to waste. They have a large family, but enough to feed them all for a year. Their grown children help with providing canning supplies.

Half the people I'm preparing for live in different states. During a crisis, travel will be hard, and they may not be allowed into our area. I discussed this with the Emergency Management Director. My suggestion was for my family members to have a copy of my current driver's license with my street address.

He quickly realized it could only have been provided by me, and a good way to verify their destination. Yes, it could pose identity theft issues. However, both my child and sister already know we don't have much, so why bother, not that they would. I'm also working on "Back Road Guides" for them which include family/friends along the various routes.

They will have directions which avoid interstates, safe places along the way, access to my home, supplies available and a secondary safe place in a rural area already established. I don't think I can do anything more, other than move them down here now. Unfortunately, that's not possible.

It may seem like I'm taking on everything, but not quite. If my family members can get here, they will be bringing supplies too. They are preparing as much as they can. It's truly a joint effort, based on each person's abilities and means.


Last edited by lcp012586; 09/09/10 11:23 AM.

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For those of us with a little to spare on preparing, here's some ideas which can hopefully maximize our efforts.

Shop at re-sale/thrift stores. Even though I've been "junkin" for years, I'm still amazed with things I find. However, it is getting harder, as more people have no other option. In our area, these stores are busier, and that makes "treasures" harder to come by. While there, don't forget to check the book section for old cook books, or ones on natural healing, first aid, camping and survival techniques. If you stumble on a good one, please share the title with us!

You can find sleeping bags, tents and other camping items, plastic storage boxes for medical supplies, a sturdy "bug-out" bag, all at significant discount. I've found spare blankets, linens, tarps, canopies, rope, tape, screening, tools and a shop light for my husband, new in the box, not to mention clothes and shoes. What I save on these things, I can spend on food.

Many re-sale stores are closed on Mondays. Tuesdays and Wednesdays are good for catching the new items. You need to be persistent and consistent. Stopping by as frequently as once a week, the owners/employees will get to know you. At our local Goodwill, I'm the "Yarn Lady." That customer recognition has provided me some good deals over the years.

Use coupons and shop the sales! Our grocery store has "Buy 1 Get 1 Free" deals every week. If I have coupons for each BOGO item, my savings are compounded. You wouldn't think state laws would apply to grocery store sales, but they do. In GA, you can purchase 1 BOGO item and pay 1/2 price. In FL, you have to get 2 items to save anything.

Check with your grocery store about BOGO offers and to see if they honor competitor coupons. There are hundreds of coupons on-line you can print. However, some stores, like our local Walmart, do not accept them. Make sure your grocery store does.
Trade coupons with friends and family. I get so many I can't use, but pass them on to someone who can.

But my best way to save and stock up on food is with Angel Food Ministries. If you've never heard of this, please check out the website to see if they deliver to your area.

angelfoodministries.com

This national service utilizes non-profit/religious organizations and volunteers to provide good food at cut rate prices. There are NO income requirements or restrictions. Everyone can purchase Angel Food. You can order on line or at the host organization. They accept cash, credit cards and all government assistance programs.

We started with Angel Food over 2 years ago and have consistently saved $75-$100 a month on groceries, sometimes more. Their meats are AWESOME and they have a good variety. We've saved enough since starting to pay for all the food and drink at my daughter's wedding in November. After that, we're saving up for a solar generator/power supply.

Please jump in and share some of your tips on any topic. As Elleise shared, we all have a piece of this recipe for preparation and survival.



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We've had over a thousand views of this thread! It's exciting that forum members are checking back and hopefully the tips shared are helpful and inspiring.

Many of us are facing financial and other challenges with creative solutions. I'm certainly not alone in this. So please join in.

If you have tried something that worked, please share. It could benefit so many. If you have a question about anything discussed here, please ask. The answer to a simple question can help others. I may not know the answer, but will help find it.

The dreams and visions shared in our companion thread are for the future. They could be realized in 2 years or 20 years. Unfortunately with our "abilities" specific dates aren't revealed, and that can be so frustrating. However, I am so thankful for the information and validations. I'm grateful for the time and opportunity to learn, share, and prepare.


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LCP - Thanks for pointing that out. I have a horrible time looking at my progress or getting paid for that matter. It's just one of those things you just do and don't really expect anything...you're not doing it for anything gainful, just - this is what's coming through and on my life I'm not making this stuff up. So anyway, thank you very much for drawing at least my personal attention to something that is now digitally correct I guess and you can see your progress smile

The issues coming in for me, I don't know if you feel these as well, but what I get are like tidal waves???? So, say there's a Tsunami - and that wipes a village out. What I feel this thing is isn't that.

Ok? So what I'm getting is waves.

With this tread in particualr, what I'm feeling is most poignant is that it's sole purpose is to help get as many people as possible from one wave to the next.

I feel we will see signs...there will be more and more headlines of people just doing more and more crazy things.

Maybe you could just say, well that's just how things are now...well no, what I get is that "See those people???? This is what you will need to provide and protect your own family from when these waves begin to gain more and more momentum.

I see it as when you first start to see one or two tiny red ants in your kitchen in the spring...you pay little attention, just maybe notice and a few months later they are everwhere.

When what I and many others feel is happening, but not "happening", happens, these are the desperate psychies, personalities that have now, during these waves, basically found permission to do what they've been holding inside all of this time.

Groccery stores will not be reliable. Find a water source.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 09/10/10 11:23 PM.

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Thanks Elleise. I also posted my "Wave" Theory on our companion topic. We have two time frame issues. 1st - when does this all start and 2nd - how much time will we have between waves to regroup and resupply for the next.

My feeling is that we will be hit with a substantial wave initially. This will be followed by smaller, possibly regional waves of troubles, with a few larger ones in the mix, before we're hit with the Tidal Wave you described for the future, 18 to 25 years out.

I think the "weeding out" process described by Caubearer11 fits with my theory of multiple waves, varying in size and areas affected. You have also mentioned regional civil unrest and wars. These would fit with the larger waves in the mix.


Last edited by lcp012586; 09/11/10 12:22 AM.

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I really connect with that - TWO TIME ISSUES! That's it.

It comes through like your foot falling asleep...tingly, prickly,some heavy some not as and then it's just you want not for anything unimaginable to happen so you go into protect mode.

But that makes perfect sense.

I feel there are waves...ok, they lead up to this bigger thing. I'm in a place now, where I can utilize it but man do i feel strongly I need to pace myself and get out. I need to be out by year 7.

That doesn't mean just out of the project...I need to have my stuff in place by year 7.

I'll have to keep an eye on that...this is the first time I've had a number.

I feel the market ends up crashing. That is one of the things that jsut sends people out of their minds. Not all people but it's like it ensues part of the panic.

I mean if you aren't invested in the market, it'skind of like...oh well, not that big a deal...that makes sense.

But, if the market falls and creates panic in the business investments and I know it's not out ther yet, but even the millionaires and billionaires are losing it...they just aren't going public with it. What they are doing instead is, "Charity work"

Don't understimate (not you, figuretive) the lucritiveness of being on talk shows, networking, commercializing, etc. and asking for money in the name of something from people who are already strugging, as "a cause." The money isn't exactly going where they say it is. More like paying bills.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 09/11/10 12:51 AM.

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Two more thrifty food tips

We buy "day old" bread. It's the only way we can afford the pricier whole grain breads. I immediately double bag and remove as much air as possible, not to squish the bread, and store it in the freezer. Thawing in the sun, it tastes bakery fresh. Our local Wally World puts out a cart several times a week with specialty breads half price. We also buy from a dollar store for less than half price. Even better, one of our local grocers donates their out dated bakery items to Salvation Army. Twice a week I can pick up 2 items for FREE.

We may not always have bread available for purchase, so learn how to make it yourself. Traditional breads can be made on grills or over a fire. Native American Fry Bread or a slightly different version we grew up with called "Hoe Cake" are 2 easy breads with minimal ingredients and simple preparation.

Many years ago, we were at a Pow-wow. For some reason my sister and a friend who grew up on a reservation were comparing how poor they were growing up. He commented the only bread they had was fry bread. She responded that hoe cake is basically the same, but baked. When our Mother made that, it was Dessert!

These time tested recipes are Treasures! Minimal resources required and a little can be spread to keep us all healthy.

Dried Beans in glass containers are NOT just a decorative element for your kitchen! Beans are one of Mother Nature's Wonder Foods and have been cultivated for thousands of years. If stored correctly, dried beans will last a long, long time. They've been found on archeology digs! But as my husband just commented, the key is in the preparation. He doesn't like crunchy beans in his chili. They need to be soaked and slow cooked. Learn how and gather recipes. Beans are like bread, a little can go a long way. They are rich in complex carbohydrates (the good ones) and trace minerals.


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In an earlier post I mentioned the "Trifecta" of Vinegar, Baking Soda, and Epsom Salt. Here are a few websites which list their numerous uses. Some are health/first aid related. If you have any medical conditions, please consult your doctor before use.

Vinegar - There is a reason this stuff has been around a few millenia or so. These websites will astound you with its versatility. Don't forget to copy/paste and add the www's.

versatilevinegar.org

vinegarbook.net (This is a FREE book download)

Baking Soda - Not just for the Fridge or a home made cake. Adding a little to beans increases their digestability.

thefarm.org/charities/i4at/lib2/60soda.htm

lifehackery.com/2008/07/22/home-4

Epsom Salt also has many practical health, gardening, and first aid applications. Here's a good website with a lot of information.

saltworks.us/salt_info/epsom-uses-benefits.asp

These items have extended shelf lives, multiple uses, and are an important part of any household inventory.

The internet is truly an asset for us to gather information. But we can't simply "bookmark" the websites and leave it at that. When the lights go out, so does the internet. Unless you have a photographic memory, this information needs to be in an easily accessible format. While we're gathering and learning, why not make your own "Survival Manual." A journal or binder of some type could prove a life saver for you and your family. It only takes a little time, printer ink and paper, and could be of immense value down the road.

Last edited by lcp012586; 09/12/10 08:48 PM.

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Most Southerners have a good sense of humor and don't mind laughing at ourselves. I received the cutest email the other day about 2 versatile items you should consider including in your supplies.

If it doesn't move and needs to - Use the WD40
Check out their website (wd40.com). There are 2000+ uses!

If it moves and doesn't need to - Use the Duct Tape!
If you grew up in the South or the country, you already know Duct Tape is a must have in every vehicle of every type and every tool box. We even have contests for making clothing with it and that includes bathing suits!

For more creative uses for this "fix-all," you will enjoy the humorous list at thezac.com/ducttape
This list is rated PG-13. I must admit, I can vouch for at least 10 uses on the list!


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Well, I can't tell you how much a sense of humor is in all of, well everything, really.

Depression, anxiousness about the future, children, uncertainty...we're all pretty much experiencing the same things, but at different times between distractions.

I know you will be busy here in the near future and if you happen to need anything, even a helping pm'ing hand...always here smile


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Thank you Elleise! It will be a bit crazy for me the next 2 months. Two bridal showers, a week at the Pow-wow and my daughter's wedding is less than a month later. After a year of worry and 7 months fretting over whether all this would start happening sooner than later, I can't tell you how helpful everyone's information has been. Just knowing we should be able to get the wedding behind us before the "brown stuff" hits has been a true blessing for both me and the Bride.

My daughter knows a little of what's going on, but I've kept that to a minimum. She's already had one panic attack, the first in several years. She knows I'm doing my best to take care of what I can, so her worries are limited to me and the wedding.

I know I've mentioned this already, but it is important for us not to frighten our children with all this. Their vivid imaginations can run wild if provided even the least information of a possible crisis. I can be a "worry hound" at times, my daughter comes by it honestly and actually got a bigger dose.

We need to keep positive phrasing in our explanations. If your child asks why they need to learn how to make a fire, don't say "If you were out in the woods all alone..." Instead say, "If WE were out in the woods, you could help me."

Younger children will be excited with "experiments," learning and the sense of accomplishment. It's a great time to teach safety issues as well, while building a fire, or playing doctor. Most children are thrilled with the opportunity to say "LOOK what I did!"

With pre-teens and teens, we need to be really creative in how to engage them in a positive manner. You might think they are older and can handle further explanation and possible scenarios. This is true for some. However, this is also a time of life frought with acceptance, security issues, and sometimes helplessness. Applying the skills they need to learn to their current activities might be a good approach. Sports can be a good lead into learning first aid. If your teen is interested in cooking, challenge them to cook from scratch, or over a fire (with supervision). Sometimes the best way to engage a teenage mind is implying they probably can't do something. They so enjoy proving us wrong and can be oblivious to our use of reverse methods.

Pay attention to your children and their emotional state. In high school I did a science project comparing ESP capabilities between 1st and 9th graders using the cards with different symbols. The 1st graders beat the socks off the 9th graders. Younger children are more open-minded and prone to use their "gut" feelings. Sometimes their "logic" for an action can be so simple, it's astounding. Older children are more assimilated and tend to rely less on these instincts and abilities. However, my science project could have had different results. For some, the pre-teen and teen years are when "talents" can pop-up and develop rapidly. This happened with my daughter.

So many people feel "something." It's so heavy and pervasive, adults without abilities can sense it. Is it also affecting our children? Have you noticed changes in mood, behaviour, appetite, attention span? Granted, most will be normal changes, all kids go through phrases, and each child is unique. Keep a close eye on your children, and listen carefully to them. If a change is drastic or prolonged, address it thoroughly and as quickly as possible.

Keep an open mind, as this may not be something doctors can fix with therapy or a pill. As parents, we can establish and maintain open, honest communication. With love and empathy, reassure our children things will be alright.


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Added another person to my network today, a friend I've known for years. As we talked, she mentioned having strange "urges" lately. Water and food storage, getting a boat, storing fuel for their generator, etc. BINGO! She's been feeling "IT" too.

My friend is very spiritual and open-minded. We had talked of my dreams years ago, so it was an easy topic to cover. They live in the country and have a well, but it needs repair. Must get our husbands together to address that soon.

Her Mother can grow anything, and lives near me! As soon as we get through the wedding, I'm thinking about hosting some get-togethers. Bring your gardening journal, enjoy some brownies and take notes!

My friend also mentioned wanting to learn about berries and wild plants. In the Spring, we can get a naturalist to take us on an outing in the woods. He has family in our area and we see him often. AND, he's already offered. With 3 generations of experience, he has been re-teaching Native Americans on indigeous plants and was adopted into the Tribe.



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LCP,

Thank you so much...VERY much for keeping us updated. There is a struggle and I have to admit I have it at times and it goes like this.

Urge...urge..sensing, pending, Urgent, prepare, listen, watch, tread with caution..........YEH ITS FRIDAY!!! WEeeee! The sun is out, I love life....tread with caution, prepare, watch, it's coming, store, prepare.

No exageration I go through that cycle these days minimum of three times a week. It is closer, but I have a neurotic side that wants to skip through the days and not think about it.
They gave me that option, mercifully when I was in my 20's. They say now, "Watch who comes into your life. Make those connections, prepare, plan, steady, steady. Be alert. It comes like a theif in the night."

See they (government) won't talk about it now, if ever, but the signs will be. They won't allow losing control via panic of the masses...not quite yet anyway. You will see more and more headlines of shootings and just crazy acts of violence. More and more civil issues, unrest, defensivism and angers will begin not only rising, but they will be encouraged, to keep votes of power in power, like "You need us to make sure your people get what they need..." something like that. The people will be distracted with pride.

The people in charge arean't done building what they are building so they have to stay in power, whatever the cost. Republicans wont be Republicans and Dems wont be Dems, they are all a part of the same thing.

Once this thing is done, all the people that went along with them will think they will be protected, that they are important and part of the club basically. The joke will be on them. They were used to campaign and will at that time be unnecessary. Some end up taking thier own lives and even having their lives taken from them.

As this thing comes to light, starts to fall apart and slightly just before when they finally realize what they have helped make happen, they will actually want to tell people...easy their conscience.

The people who will be protected or are protecting themselves, more accurately, won't allow it and it goes from there...The protecting are aready setting their end up so when this does hit, the chaos part, they will be on an island somewhere while the little people survive it or fall - either way, the people/masses, some fight it out among themselves. While the others that prepared, see it through and it goes well for them.

Something as simple as learning to collect rain water or melt and filter snow will help. But I am coming across people I haven't seen or heard from since college that didn't really have the same intuitive visoning mind set as myself and you know they have this look of just pensive unrest. Then I just talk with them and both people say, "I feel something coming. I just can't see it."

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 09/13/10 09:49 PM.

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Elleise, I do agree and already see an increase in feelings of betrayal from the government/administration. So much was promised with "silver tongue" and things have not improved, but worsened for many. In general, we're not patient people. It seems so many thought the new President would somehow bring instant changes. I remember seeing news footage right after the Presidential election. A woman was so excited and commented "I won't have to make my house payments!" What!?! Did she think the government was going to "adopt" her or something? I hope she still has her house, many don't.

People were caught up in the hype, and actually believed the politcal, rhetorical promises. Now they are feeling something is not quite right, not just with the President, but with many aspects of our government. The undercurrents are a little more noticeable.

I think many of us will be "crossing paths" with those we knew back when and this could be part of the plan. Establishing and Re-establishing connections is a big part of preparations and making it through.

"Pensive Unrest" what a perfect phrase! But well armed with information and empathy, we can each help someone move from this to forewarned and prepared.



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Water is life for all carbon based life forms, and that includes us. Our bodies are something like 70% water and it needs to be replenished daily.

Elleise mentioned that if we are dehydrated, we can't eat but a little until we have some water, or it will further dehyrate our bodies. For so many of us, water is provided by our local government. However, when things get "hairy" we can't expect our water supply to not experience supply/quality problems. In any disaster, one of the first things rushed in is drinking water. Without adequate or clean supply, dehydration and disease sets in quickly.

Our country is already experiencing supply issues, not only in drought affected, but also high population areas. There is only so much fresh water and we're using it faster than the planet can filter and replenish the sources.

The aquifer our city taps has a high sulfur content and we've been filtering our drinking water for years with the filter pitchers. These are effective with sediments and sulfur, but I need to find out if they also work for other contaminants, such as bacteria and chemicals.

Water molecules attract contaminants released by industry and transportation. These toxins are up high in our atmosphere, but that's where the clouds form. Rain and snow clean the air and bring the "bad stuff" back down. Water is cleaned as it seeps through the ground by Mother Nature's filtration system.

Rain water and snow melt are not drinking water sources, unless adequately filtered/treated or in a dire emergency. However, they can be used for gardening and cleaning. Using non-potable water for these things can help our potable supply last longer.

There are groups all over the country promoting the use of rain barrels and cistern systems to capture rain water and use it for landscaping, gardening, and toilet flushing. It makes sense! Using treated drinking water for these needs is truly a waste of resources.


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If you use well water, having a few rain barrels might help your well last longer. If you use "city" water for gardening and landscaping, rain barrels could save you some money.

Here's some good websites with information on making rain barrels. Don't forget to copy/paste and add the www's.

swfwmd.state.fl.us/conservation/rainbarrel/
This website has info on collection rates based on roof size and rainfall amounts.

younghouselove.com/2009/03/how-to-make-a-rain-barrel/
The couple who have this website attended a workshop on making rain barrels. Good photos and information! They also had a good time.

naturalrainwater.com/make_rainbarrel.htm
The graphics on this website are hand drawn, but the information is good. There are a few other worthy links here and the information can be downloaded as a brochure.

rainbarrels.info
This website shows daisy-chained and larger systems. It also has information on supplies, filtration and some DIY videos.

ehow.com
Search for "Cisterns" and there are several DIY articles on construction and filtration


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How you store drinking water is important. Resources used to make it safe for drinking are wasted if not stored properly.

DO NOT use containers that had milk in them! In an emergency, if thoroughly sanitized and the water will be consumed quickly (1 day), it might be OK, but is NOT recommended. It's too much of a bacteria risk, especially for young children, the elderly, and anyone with a compromised immune system.

Certain plastic containers can more easily leach chemicals into the contents, especially if heated. Use number 1 or 2 recyclable plastics for water storage, such as soda or water bottles. Clean thoroughly between each use with warm (not hot) water, and let them air dry completely. Keep them out of light and as cool as possible.

Plastics degrade with time and use, and that's when the "bad stuff" starts leaking out. This is excelerated with heat. If you have been saving plastic containers for an emergency, it would be a good idea to refresh your stock. After cleaning, mark the container with the month/year. As you prepare new ones, the older ones can be recycled. This will provide a safer supply for a longer period.

Generally we need 1 gallon per person per day for drinking and cooking. Another daily gallon per person for cleaning/toilet flushing. This is a good rule of thumb for short-term outages, such as with storms or water system repairs.

However, when we're planning for the long-term, these must be considered.
1. Proximity to your water source - you need to be close, you might be walking and water is heavy. Extended distance also poses security issues.
2. Reliability and Quality - will water always be there, safe or treatable?


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If you are fortunate to have a well, can it be used without electricity? If not, this needs to be addressed. A generator works, as long as your fuel lasts. What then?

Portable solar generators are an option. I've been looking at the one sold by Solutions from Science. The solar panel is mounted on a wheeled cart and connects to a battery based generator. There's not much output with this unit, but it can be used while the battery is charging. It's also sealed and self contained. It cannot be connected to other units and once the battery dies it's basically useless if not in sunlight. The projected battery life is only 6 years. With careful use, allowing the battery to deplete and recharge, you can extend its service. The company does have a larger model with solar panels to be mounted, and there is a 20 year warranty on the panels.

There are a few more companies with solar products. I'm looking for one which can be expanded (daisy-chained with multiple units) and has replaceable batteries. However batteries, even rechargable ones, don't last forever.

The other option for making your well water accessible in almost any conditions is a hand pump. This might be a costly addition to your system, but could prove well worth the investment during an extended power outage.


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Actually, I hadn't read through your entire post and you're right, it can be operated without electricity. Maybe these things happen in my personal life so the information could help someone else someday?

When I was destitute, my own electricity was shut off. I was depressed and didn't look into how to get it turned on. My car wasn't working and I didn't have a phone so I had to hoof it into town and wasn't up for it.

Then, I had two wells. One had an electric pump, the other an old fashioned iron manual pump. The handle was really long and you had to crank or puch the pump up and down until a little water came out.

So, it is out there. They used them back in th 1800's. The water though had to be treated and tested for lead.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 09/16/10 03:57 PM.

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Windmills and wind turbines are another option for powering wells, but only if you live in an area with sufficient and consistent wind. I've been told we don't, even with the tidal breezes.

In the next few days I'll be away from the forum for an extended period. I'm already 2 weeks behind schedule on several things, and need to get caught up.

We've had an amazing number of views on this and the companion topic. Can anyone help with posts or references on food preservation, i.e. canning, dehydration, smoking meats, making jerky, etc.? Helpful tips on personal safety and security? A list of items for a good first aid kit? How to make a fishing pole or net? How to make a trap for small game? Information on other common, but multi-purpose items?

I'm missing an important preparation/survival puzzle piece. It's been nagging, but hiding from me for weeks. Someone here has that piece. Please share, and we'll find it.

When dealing with scenarios for the future, complacency is an issue. My apologies for yet another hurricane example, but it does apply. Prior to Hurricane Hugo, the Charleston, SC area had not been hit by a major storm in several decades. For the locals, it was something their parents/grandparents had only told them about. For those who had moved to the coast in the interim, they were clueless. 6 years after the storm, we moved to an area in precisely the same situation.

The "locals" here, my age, were toddlers when the last major storm hit over 40 years ago. The media hasn't helped, forecasting complete destruction, and then we're only brushed by the storm's edge, or completely spared. I'm thankful for being spared, but also realize it promotes complacency. Since the 1960's, this county has doubled its population with people from all over the country and the world. So many are clueless what to do for a major storm, or any other crisis.

We are fortunate to have some information and somewhat of a time frame, although vague and general. But this can lead to procrastination and complacency. Life has gotten harder and busier. We're all spreading our resources as widely and thinly as possible. But we need to make time to be proactive, learn and do what we can now. Little things learned and done on a consistent basis add up quickly.

What can I learn This Week? What one little thing can I do This Week to plan or prepare? What one thing can I share here that might help someone else?


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Here's 2 more websites worth a check

offthegridnews.com
This site has hundreds of articles on many topics and also offers a free newsletter. Information from composting to water purification.

efoodsdirect.com
This site offers food and supply kits.

foodinsurance.com
This one has more affordable 1 month supply kits. But with both of these websites, be prepared for "sticker shock." The 1 month/1 adult package is $300. The 2 week version is $160 (closer to my affordability). They also have gluten free and vegetarian options and supply kits.

If you think about how much you spend a month on just groceries, these prices are still high, due to preparation and the extended shelf life. But from this view point, the price is not excessive. If you can save about $100 each month with the tips already posted here, in a year, you could have a complete food supply for 2 adults for 2 months. That may not sound like much, but combined with your other inventory, it could stretch further.



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Here are 2 websites worth a look on preserving foods

answers.com/topic/smoked-meat
This site is a good starting point with general information and history on smoking meats for preservation.

freshpreserving.com
This site has instruction videos, a list of classes and regional harvest guides. If you have local farms which sell to the public, or a farmer's market, the regional harvest guide (pdf format) list when different fruits/veggies are harvested and will be available. It also includes how many pounds are needed for one 32 oz jar. This is great information for buying the correct amount for the number of jars you have.


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These are really great tips Lcp!

When I had a garden, I preserved in jars all of the beans, tomatoes, jams, pumpkin, soups, apples, etc. and my goodness, they lasted the entire year. I didn't have to buy any of these items once until around month 14.

I cook every day, unless I'm sick or just exhausted. If I didn't though I'll bet those jars would have lasted well into the following year as well. You can reuse the jars too, just replacing the lids.

I can't have a garden here, but I can grow herbs. At around 2.50 a bottle that can save a great deal of money too and herbs are more like weeds anyway, so their growing ratios are very forgiving when you don't have the perfect climate or yard to grow them.


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I know canning is only recommended for a year or two of preservation. However, I have to admit to eating items that were well beyond the 2 and even 3 year mark. If stored in a cool, dry, dark environment, canned food will be good well beyond the recommendations.

I got a huge box of veggies and fruits from a Freecycler, just for the jars. I wasn't expecting the food to still be edible. The jars were marked with the year they were filled, and some were 4 to 5 years old. Only 1 of 10 jars of green beans had gone bad. I don't know who put these up, but they were delicious, and so were the peaches.


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I think I'm sensing the "food" shortage epidemic...some of the things that end up bringing it about.

I'm not 100% for certain if I have these in the right order. The come to my vision and fall, come to my vision and fall, like there are ups and downs. That's true for anytime in history, but there are certain cycles wherer the gaps between those ups and downs are extending - elongated, like times of wars, The Holocaust era, riots, Russian bread lines, etc. They're trigger points in history. We're not there yet, and I'm thinking that's why I'm getting the whoosie ups and downs.

What I feel right now, how it is being presented to me is, take a rubberband and attach it to two fingers of your left hand and two fingers of your right. Stretch until there is just some resistance. It's a boring excercise but see how long you can sit there before your arms get tired.

The arms are the government. The rubberband is the the system and the fingers are the people. If you had enough people, say in a classroom, see how many hands and fingers you could fit in this rubber band and it can't be an industrial strength band because the system/rubberband is faulty, it isn't stable and in reality isn't something that is really there or can do what the arms are saying the band can do. So, there's just a lot of fingers and hands inside the rubber band. Now everybody stretch the band from both sides. It's a little tighter and a little tighter and so on and so forth. It won't take much of an external to snap the sides of this band no matter what direction it comes from.

So, right now we don't have everyone in this system/band. So, the band goes in and it goes out and people, if they are honest with themselves, do feel it.

HOWEVER...HUGE HOWEVER! what's "in" now is to be a 'ray of sunshine,' keep it positive, keep it light and inspirational...it for whatever reason (i understand why this is, but the general public may or may not and feel badly or that they are the problem for seeing it.) isn't something you're actually supposed to notice. It's kind of like working for a corporation and you're sittin there going, o.k. I know the petty cash fund and bonus programs were in the green, what happened...and you start to see memos that don't make sense...you snoop around and find the head guy is laundering/pilfering funds and they make you feel like you are not the "team player" for noticing. It goes like that.

Inspiration is wonderful and you don't have to be all doom and gloom,. If you want to get support groups or offer key resources for things you feel, just for you own sanity and everyone elses, too really, have positive and helping things you are doing as well. Write, join communitiy services, cook, go for picnics, grow those gardens, etc.

I feel there is going to be something with the food stamp program. Like incentivess for large businesses. So, the more people that are on them, there is money not only going to the companies for accepting food stamps but gov. grants will pay for the efforts of supplying those foods and it builds minimum wage jobs, federal min. wage jobs etc. Keep in mind too when someone uses foodstamps each purchase is STATE exempt in having to pay taxes for that food. So, no taxes. That's part of it. I also see restaurants being able to use or accept foodstamps. Utilities comes in here too, but it's garbles in my brain right now.

O.K. Look for utilitiy hikes. Why? Simple...we've seen the wonderful gov. ads about how to be a good parent and teach your kids to turn off lights, etc. There is going to be a gap somehow with profits, but they'll tell you it is something else, like shortage of this or that...I'm going to go with oil, but what do I know?

So the food stamps and utilities somehow fall into or under some grant or program. The people who are actually turning their lights off and pay full price for everything (thrifty), well, the CEO's of the utility companies only see that because you are keeping your bills down, they aren't getting their golfing green fees and yacht insurance paid for so to keep them and their investors happy, guess what they decide to do to bridge that gap?

And the CZARS (sp) we here Obama setting in place the salary zar, whatever they are. They are like those dandelion things you blow in the wind. They will show up and they will make people feel they are looking out for you, but the "player" the CEO replacement "players" will publically be repremanded with a glass ceiling of a salary, but they'll have "outside" incentives and funds trikling in to balance the difference. Their job will be to keep the public assured the company though is in good standing and the popele will be told they need "TO DO MORE"

The gov. is also going to go after the young. The old know too much. Look for grants in schools and lots and lots of visits to college campus' The young are to "tweak" the middle aged and old...the parents. Basically to "get them on board."

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 10/01/10 05:23 PM.

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Just before we left for Pow-wow, I saw something on TV that really peaked my interest on water purification. But had to wait until our return to look it up. The Pow-Wow was INCREDIBLE!!!!

Potters For Peace is an organization that teaches potters in 3rd world countries to make very simple water purification systems. These are used in South and Central American, Africa, the Carribean and Asia. It's a clay pot made to fit in a bucket. After firing, it's painted with colloidal silver paint. The small pores in the clay filter particulates and the colloidal silver had anti-bacteria properties that make the water potable.

There are quite a few ceramic filter systems on the market. This is a system made for the other 90% of the world. However, this low-tech method of water purification is practical knowledge for all of us. The version I saw on TV had fluted sides to increase surface area. The Potters for Peace website has a ton of information on testing, production standards, etc., and there is no patent on this system.

Last edited by lcp012586; 10/11/10 09:30 PM.

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I've heard of Colloidal silver but I hadn't heard of it in a paint.

Do you have to keep re-painting the bowl or making new ones for the impurities that are trapped in the bowl from previous filterings?

This might actually help if people ended up near streams, homeless, but are near water supplies. Also, if there's an old well that still has running water underneath it, to filter it for cooking and such.


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According to the Potters for Peace website, the silver is not really a "paint." You mix it with water and then dip the clay pot. The formula and brand names of the silver they use is on the website. The pots have to be scrubbed and they get thinner. This reduces the effectivenss over time, but they do last quite a while.

AquaRain makes a gravity ceramic filter system. It's looks similar to a tea urn, and has a spout. It's not too expensive and the filters last much longer than those for the water pitcher systems. Their unit with 4 filters has been added to my wish list.

Last edited by lcp012586; 10/14/10 11:46 PM.

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I've been doing small things as well around the house.

One of them is like a game. Each month I tally how much money I spend on food. Then I divide that by 4. Then I see if I can beat those numbers by $15.00/wk anyway I can.

One thing I've done is when I start to see vegetables going bad I pick an hour or so I'm in deep thought and spread them out on the counter and start jullien-ing or dicing them up. I have a dehydrator I'll sprinkle them on or I'll wrap them in a paper towel and freeze them. I save a bunch of money, especially on red peppers.

I'll also, re-use those those tiny plastic cups you get with chinese food or an icecube tray and freeze left over fruit juices and stock. They're good to go for soups and stews. Winter will be here soon and those are all things I would normally buy.

The money I have left over I stash away for possible outages. We're seeing more than a few here, periodically and it doesn't have to mean a terrorist attack, but with everything integrating through the computer, it seems to just take one thing and then you're stuck.


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We're back from my daughter's wedding. It was lovely and everything went well. I'm still exhausted.

Last night we watched a commentary show about the possibility of hyper-inflation here in America. This has happened several times around the world, Germany after WWI and Zimbabwe in 2008. Unfortunately, our government and the Federal Reserve appear to be making the same mistakes these governments did which caused hyper-inflation in their economies.

The Federal goverment, particularly in the past 2 years, has accumulated a staggering amount of debt. Right now, it would take almost, if not ALL the money in the entire world to get us out of the red. The Federal Reserve is "monetizing" a portion of our debt. Just recently, many said that would NOT happen, including the heads of the Fed Reserve and the IRS. But it is being done.

It's somewhat similar to your house mortgage being sold to a new bank/lender. The Federal Reserve is the new bank/lender for the Federal Government. But all the debt buying has reduced their cash supply, so they are printing more. The more cash in circulation, the less it is worth. This sets us up for inflation. Combine that with shortages and you get hyper-inflation. Low supply increases price in every situation!

This has happened before, and it rarely ends well, i.e. dictatorships, riots, civil war..... It may be more devastating here. We've had 2-3 generations of wealth. While many of our grandparents lived through the Great Depression and the shortages of WWII, we and our children have never really wanted for anything. We have not experienced widespread and lingering hardships. Growing up, we were not wealthy by any standard, but we always had food, clothes and a home.

So many of us are ill-prepared at best. Many from no fault of their own, others relying on the illusion the government will take care of them. Historically, civil unrest and shortages begets violence. When necessities begin to run short, or are too expensive to afford, how will the citizenry respond? How will our government respond?

During the show last night, a few examples of hyper-inflation were presented. These were prepared by economic forecasters and please don't take my word. Look it up yourself. While not the exact numbers provided, they are close enough to make the point.

A Hershey chocolate bar $15.00
A small box of sugar $50.00
32oz of coffee $70.00

Yes, these are luxury items. One can certainly survive without chocolate, sugar and coffee (though for me, not happily). But it got me thinking, with these forecasted prices, how much would a can of green beans costs? A loaf of bread? A half gallon of milk? A dozen eggs? These are not luxuries. Historically, with the onset of hyper-inflation, wages did increase, but not at the same rate of price increases. If food becomes so exorbitantly expensive, many will be faced with the question of do I eat, or do I keep a roof over my head? How can I protect what little I do have?

Americans faced these questions during the Great Depression. Hundreds of thousands were homeless and untold numbers died of starvation and illnesses brought on by malnutrition. There was hyper-inflation, shortages, and violence. It's happened here too, but few are left to remind us. This factual history is "glossed" over in our schools. Our children are led to believe FDR's programs and policies pulled our economy out. However, there are credible arguments those policies actually extended the crisis. Gearing up for WWII, (well before Pearl Harbor) with increased private sector production may have been what actually pulled us out of the Depression.

Our government is leading us down the historical path to hyper-inflation. If/When we get there, necessities will be worth more than gold. What can we do to turn things around?

Learn accurate history - not the idealized bunk taught in schools these days. Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. Will we make that mistake as well?

Share what you have learned and let your leaders, local, state, federal know that you are concerned and watching CLOSELY.

Prepare now as best you can for possible shortages. Economic situations can fluxuate in a single day. It can happen very quickly as predicted in our companion thread, with a triggering event. There could be a run on stores, just like before a major storm. It could also happen more gradually, but over a relatively short period of time, i.e. a few months. Pay attention to prices when you shop. Was that loaf of bread $1.39 last week and this week it's $1.79?





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Lcp, welcome back! smile

I've been wondering how your travels and your daughter's wedding went. Glad to hear everything went well.

I'm greatful you've brought up hyper-inflation. What I'm feeling and probably more importantly, what I'm observing is not only il-prepardness, but just many not understanding or believing how it ends up happening here and what it is exactly.

You're exactly right, even though it may be popular to discuss or lead by example how frugally you're living, the depth or scope of hyper-inflation hasn't been received quite yet because most of us have always had some form of housing, food and clothing within our reach.

The window is closing. That is what I see. So where it used to be shown to me as a wall (kind of a see through wall with a bright light coming through.) then sliding glass doors, then a wide window, now that window is square. Square is still larger than periscope, so there's time.

The time is to get yourself set up so you're the 3rd little pig, not the first or second one that gets blown to smitherines.

I'm kind of glad this is all recorded somewhere. We've been talking about this for sometime and it's interesting to see how the steps unfold, synchronicities, affirmations, etc.

You're right about the schools and what they are pressing our younger generation to believe. My husband works with 95% highschool grads and college kids. He hears what parents don't and they are being so fired with political agendas, it's more of a socialist type of thing but it's presented hippy style, everyone is happy, no judgements, rainbows, everything is equal, (so that part is great, but...BUT)no talk of inflation or taxes, and they are so convinced their parents are hateful, NOT getting the "bigger" picture and an enemy for not going along with it, that they won't even speak to their parents and highschoolers are threateing to move out. When have you ever heard that based on social and political views?

Hyper inflation, my gosh, my husband tried to explain it to the kids where he works and brought up Ghandi as an intro. The kids were standing around him and they said, we actually know who that is, it's that green flexible guy in the cartoons.

He said, "I can't...I just can't...it hurts too much. That's Gumby..." grabbed his head and walked away. I told him to get back in there and try again. wink

So lets use video games. Whenever like a new iphone is coming out World of Warcraft - catyclism, etc. People line up, not only to be the first to haved them, but because there are limited amounts of them. You'll go on ebay if best buy runs out and pay a s-load of money for them. BUT, if everyone gets one the day of release in their mailbox and as they keep spinning more and more and more of these things out, they lose their value. Nobody wants one.

So lets say our dollar's value is based on gold. In the beginning, lets pretend, say the US vault has 5000 pieces of gold and one piece of gold had a solid/real value of $1000.00, equaling $5,000,000.00 in all.

However, over the past decade or so, the holder of the gold has gone on a shopping spree and not only has more debt than he has gold, but has a president of his bank simply deciding to make his own credit card printing press and just prints more credit cards to keep his spending habits going. He has no more gold coming in and even though he has 5,000,000 total he has no problem spending 20,000,000,000.00 with no end in sight and has outstanding loans with other countries that lent him money because at one time he had $5,000,000. to support those loans.

Those aren't perfect examples, but the dollar IS being managed or it comes across to me as there is a management that is manipulating in stages, the decline of the dollar.

So, when we aer here taling about "preparing" it isn't the vaporizing of the planet...it doesn't happen like that. What happens comes fast and you won't believe it then let alone now. But, there will be subtle signs. Don't ignore them.

Whatever spare time you have, learn to make your own bread. Watch for .99 sales on pork roast, four, sugar and cans...this is new, but "cans" specifically of milk. Watch prices...they are going to increase, but it's going to start out like where you used to have 4/1.00 it'll be more like 4/3.00.

Also, this has to do w/Gov. but a few years ago I had seen or kept seeing the number 5. I wrote about it in the "What do you see for the economy/gov" thread. But specifically the number 5. We are either number 5 or there are 5 chunks of countries and it comes kind of like a one world gov. Russia was in there, china...two smaller countries, maybe India (something out of the east)...it's in the process of being done.


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I have a possible explanation for the number 5. George Soros is one of the richest men in the world. He is also a frequent visitor to the White House. He and his organizations fund a variety of charities, political organizations, media stuff, the list is very, very long.

Mr. Soros is a manipulator of currencies. He and his organizations go into a country. The people, currency and economy are manipulated. It crashes! Mr. Soros has done this in 4 countries. Guess which country is number 5. In interviews he has actually stated how "fun" this all is, and admits that he has much in common with God.

He already has his talons in the white house, the media, the unions, etc. His minions are calling for demonstrations in the streets, and he had already openly stated the dollar needs to be decreased in value.

This man has spent years perfecting his method and the USA is the Brass Ring which will earn him billions, if not trillions. He goes into a country, collapses their currency, all the while hedging against it. He made billions on the collapse of the British Sterling.

Look him up. He has videos tauting his charity, but don't forget to question how many lives he has ruined. How many people starved or were killed during the violence his tactics incited? How many people were left destitute with the hyper-inflation and bank failures in his wake?

Forget Bin Laden for a moment, he just wants to kill us. Soros may be America's public enemy #1 at this time. He wants to watch and get rich on our misery.


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Hmm...He sounds like an Economic Hit Man to me. Mostly they work unnoticed, but he seems to be getting overconfident.


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It's more than overconfident, though I do agree. This person is building something. I'm virtually positive of it.


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The EMH (Economic Hit Men) have been working behind the scene for years manipulating currencies and governments in tandem with even murkier forces. I have an excellent book written by a former one in my research library and will look it out for you if you are interested.


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Can't find it immediately in my library but a quick check of the net came up with these two useful links

Link one

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Economic-Hit-John-Perkins/dp/1576753018

hope they help


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There is something we can do to minimize Mr. Soros' efforts. He works behind the scenes and his efforts in our country have been "outed." He is not the unknown shadowy figure in the background here. Although he has begun a massive campaign based on his "philanthrophy" to keep us bamboozled, there are many across the country who know what he has done in other countries.

Verify the information yourself. It's easy with the internet and trustworthy sites. Then share the information you trust with everyone you know. Find out which organizations receive his millions and avoid them.

The citizens in the other countries he has devastated economically didn't know what was going on. They didn't know who to turn to. I don't think Mr. Soros knows the American Spirit. If we all join together, he will learn soon.


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I would bet to say the "thing" I've been writing about that feels like it's being built....this person has an invisible (to the general public) a current that connects it all. Somehow, someway...I'll bet the dollar disintigrates and whatever is connected to this person becomes the thing I feel that has or is being built a powerhouse everythihng runs through.

I'll also put money that this person has enough funds going through charities or something that publically shows to benefit people, countries, etc. to kind of pull away from anything that could be construed as malnurishing for an economy, but say you lifted those "table clothes" (those charities) are connected to something that kind of funnels into an ocean of power and money.

What's really kind of well comforting in a way, for me, but you could only ask my husband to validate this, but a couple of years ago, he used to get super mad at me. He'd say, he didn't want a downer, he doesn't want to be a part of helping the "idiots" that voted these other idiots into power. He wanted me to keep it to myself and he'd play video games all night...by that I mean from 7:00 pm - 6:00 am to block it all out.

But, he's known me long enough and experienced the stuff i have discussed with him and the time it takes to actually reach the news, to know in his heart of heart, I didn't make it up or research it.

And all of the things he didn't want ton know about that irratated him because we were married and I had no one else to talk w/about this, he's telling me he's starting to see for himself evidence of now, especially on FOX.

OK so everyone hates FOX news, from me to them....

I don't watch it and I don't follow politics, but i do bounce what I feel with my husband who is now watching FOX news, that I have repeatedly and he will stand by this, I ask him no matter what he does see, not to discuss it with me unless what I've told him is accurate. That I can't help.

What is disturbing to me is how what I'm picking up is not only here where I write but on a news station that is so threatening to everyone.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 11/12/10 09:08 PM.

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The other day a strike by the BBC journalists meant that they had to broadcast nature programs in all the slots usually occupied by news and interviewing people in apparent positions of power. The result? Lots of positive feedback about how much calmer and less embattled people felt and why wasn't this done more often.

Epic win!


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So, in english, was this an experiment?

I can't help myself but feel if they legalized pot and put on reruns of Leave it to Beever or Discovery channel, yes we'd be calmer, but maybe not wiser.


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Well, they had to fill the empty slots with something and most of the UK likes nature programs. It was interesting to see what effect constant news, particularly the negative kind, is having on peoples' nerves.
On the legalizing pot front most governments would like that. But not only would it put a lot of drug enforcement people out of work, but a lot of the growers and smugglers would suddenly be without an income. Not really a bother to me but many more on welfare since that seems their only skills. It would lead to a calmer population, just look at the outcries from Victorian law enforcement in the UK when opium and Laudanum were banned.


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There is much common sense wisdom in "Leave It to Beaver," and we all have a "Wally" amongst our friends.


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Part of yesterday's Glen Beck show was on food inflation and storage. The Survival Mom was one of his guests and I checked out her website last night. (not a link, add the www.)

thesurvivalmom.com
Good stuff on this one, factual, but lighthearted. Some of the articles had me laughing out loud. I so needed that.

Also included on the show were the owners of these 2 websites:

asamom.org

912superseniors.com

I looked at these briefly. They are interesting and worthy of a closer review. I knew Mr. Beck was Mormon, however, I didn't know food storage was one of the Mormon tenets. As stated on the show, if you want to get started on food storage, "Ask a Mormon." That's an awesome shortcut to a deep fount of knowledge and experience I plan to use.

One thing that would be helpful to me is some type of calculator to figure out what and how much food we need. Trying to figure out how many pounds of flour or pasta we would need for a year is a daunting task, even for a retired accountant. If anyone finds something like this, PLEASE share it.


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Hey busy bee...I think you pretty much bring a smile to this forum whever you pop by.

I found this straight away. It's from the foodguys.com. It's a calulator to figure out how much emergency food per person you need to store. Below is the link. I wanted to get this up as soon as possible. Thank you for the tip!

Food Storage Calculator Online

I'm going to check out the other links and then post those too. I can usually tell within a few minutes how to tie these things in, especially if I get a sense of the person writing them.

I haven't seen the shows, yet. I always get paranoid I'm going to sabatage myself. But if I speak w/my husband about something that literally drives me crazy, heart palpitations, pacing, etc. I get physical, then he'll say, "You should watch the history channel, the news, FOX, etc. I can never sit by for 3-5 minutes though...if they are dead on, I lose my breath. But food storage, it's like YES/NO. By that Imean, it will be a problem, but not in the way people are thinking. But the food storage along with everything else is the crisis.

What I think it is, so far is that the food we see now going up, comparitively to the future...well what we see now will be by 1/4 of the price. I also see gas over $5.00. I don't have a car so I don't know if that is a huge jump or not?

But the jobs people have between food and gas...that's just the start. More and more people begin going on welfare.


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Here's another link that had alot of useful links to get the most out of your money now to prepare for the future:

Emergency Home Preparation Links

***Breaks in or gaps...(this came through while I was looking for something else and spaced out).

This actually makes sense with the YES/NO feeling I was getting with food shortage.

So, say you happen to be one of those people who maybe either shake their head or role their eyes because you either don't believe it and you have plenty of food already, don't want to be bothered by negative thoughts or are already on food assistance and get those little credit cards every month.

There's a gap, I think with the welfare people...like you end up missing a month because your social worker hasn't gotten back with you, you don't have information to reapply or they don't return the cash flow in a timely basis.

The people who just don't want to hear about it. Well as more and more and more people get those credit cards, which they will too, the credit card people will want to get the very most free stuff as they can with their card and they are all going to swarm to the Walmarts where you use to go to get everything you needed to stretch your working dollar. The stuff isn't there or they are out of it more often and you will be dealing with inflation as well, but the incovenience and the price hikes take a toll more so on you because you are actually making an effort to earn the money you get.

# types of welfare recipents I see are

1.) Those that truly can no longer work, the elderly, etc.

2.) those who feel "entitled" special, etc. to free stuff and don't feel they should have to get up an go to work but for the bare minimum

3.) Those who have tried and tried and are tired and feel they're beating their heads agains a brick wall and finally just give up and realize how hard they've been working, the sacrifices they made when they too could have gotten their basics for free.

Oh, more recordings too. Information that you can't find on the internet that you have to call for with more gov't programs you'll sign up for and

This one is harder to interpret...but the people on the welfare system already...they'll be "working" it while you are jsut getting started. So they'll have tricks, like moving illegal immigrants into their homes to qualify for more money or they will actually...this one is hard for me to swallow, gross really...but they will share children. So thy'll have kids stay with them for 6 months and ship them off to another extended family memeber so they each can qualify for more food money and benefits.

It's hard on the children. They'll also get pregnant on purpose. Not mentally be able to deal with the children...with a free-for me attitude and hurt or kill the children. UGGGGhhh,

O.k. enough with the human exchange for cash flashes. Let's plant a garden smile

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 11/19/10 05:09 PM.

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Sometimes I can't watch the news and commentary shows either. Fortunately the ones my husband prefers to watch come on around supper time, when I'm in the kitchen. So they don't have my full attention all the time. Multi-tasking helps me filter.

Thanks so much for the food storage calculator link. I just completed my Angel Food order for next month and need to update my inventory before I get started on it.


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I know, I know, I know... I'm sure some reading here have commented "Glen Beck, that loon?!" I already said he can be a goof ball, but I just found the "mother lode" of websites on food preservation in his newsletter. It's a real peach from the University of Georgia.

uga.edu/nchfp (not a link, please add the www.)

The National Center for Home Food Preservation has everything from on-line courses for canning to instructions on fermenting yogurt, smoking/curing/drying/canning/storing, etc. They also have books with recipes. Their topics cover safety, problems you might encounter, general information for beginners.
The list of jams and jellies includes almost every fruit I've heard of, no pectin, liquid pectin, powdered pectin, etc.

This gem is on my desktop for easy reference and is the most comprehensive site I have found.

Canning supplies can get expensive, but here's some tips on keeping those costs low. Shop thrift stores, use Freecycle, and keep an eye out for canning jars at your recycle center. Start stocking up on lids and seals, a few packs at a time. You can reuse the lids, but it's recommended not to reuse the seals, so purchase more of those.

There are still items sold in glass jars and some of these fit the standard canning lids and seals. Some things, like spaghetti sauce, are actually sold in standard size canning jars. Find out which jars work with your lids and ask family and friends for their empty ones. Getting free jars cuts your overall supply costs by at least half.

Research now on local farms, co-ops, and farmers markets. Find out who grows what and how it's grown. Organic or not? What are the approximate harvest dates? Can you save by picking yourself? If you do plan on picking yourself, don't forget the basket/bucket and to schedule time for washing and cooking immediately afterwards.

Fruits and veggies might be a little expensive, but now is the time to learn the techniques and experiment a bit. Wasting $5 on a small, bad batch of tomatoes is much better than goofing up a dozen quart size jars.


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Why does everyone feel Glenn Beck is what-not?

I keep hearing, but it feels more like you know when you hear gossip and people really don't know but they know if they say this one thing they get an instant response of acceptance...that's the feeling I get.

I know who he is and honestly when I look to his person, he actually feels like he knows what he's talking about, but what's stronger is that he's getting in the way of what should have gone smoothely?????

My husband refers to him a lot, but he refers to many people and when a person doesn't line up, I feel it, I tell him. Like if someone is just saying something to shock people.

This person feels like he is making money and in a material world trying to keep a pigeon hole (I have no idea) but a spot, doing his best for the time being like anyone who is in the business...but his feels resourceful.

It also feels like he's prepared and almost relieved when it comes time to leave?

I feel a lot of things when it comes to this person. Most of all, I feel if I were to back someone, this is a person I would suggest people listen to.

The biggest reason is that my husband will listen to him and this is important. He downloads FOX and listens to it at work.

I'm not here when he listens to the programs. But I know when he comes home and has almost tears in his eyes, that what he got so mad at me for saying before, he heard more intelligently by someone who could provide the evidence. That's why I would back this person.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 11/20/10 05:53 PM.

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Elleise, you have addressed another important issue.
Where do we get our information?
There are some very loud voices raised against Mr. Beck and Fox News in general. When there is bad/negative talk about someone/something, I generally look to possible motive. I was raised if you don't have something good to say, keep quiet. If you have to say something negative, condition it, i.e. that was MY experience, or this is MY impression/conclusion. We can all be ill informed or just completely wrong about a situation or a person. That should not taint it for others, unless there is a motive for tainting it.
Each of us has a brain, logic, gut response and now is the time to use those in obtaining information. There is so much gossip, slander and flat out lies being spread, it's hard to know who/what to believe or trust.
Here's my rule of thumb -
When something/someone is getting "slammed" in the press -
1)Where is the evidence to support this?
2)Has something been taken out of context and twisted?
3)What are the original sources for this information?
4)Is the person presenting the information being objective, or is there obvious bias? Are they open to opposing discussion, not based on "talking points" but facts, backed with evidence?
5)Does this make sense with what I already know?
When something affects or interests me, having answers to these questions, I can make up my own mind about it.

I may live a simple life, but I am not a simple person. Don't try to persuade me with "talking points" and "creative math" containing vague phrases and variable numbers impossible to verify. A thousand people repeating something a thousand times does NOT make it truth. Don't talk down to me as if I am stupid and can't possibly comprehend the big picture. When I watch network news, some commentators, and "experts" this is my reaction. It feels like they are trying to placate me. I'm left with the question, "What's the full story here, is something missing?"

When someone states:
This is what I have learned
This is my evidence
Here's where you can find my original sources
Read it yourself and make up your own mind
If I have something wrong, tell me
I can trust this information. If I have questions, I can find the answers and have the freedom to my own interpretations based on facts. This is how Glen Beck presents information, and probably why his audience is growing and his books are on the best seller lists.

Yes, he can be a bit goofy. But then with dire issues facing all of us, a little goofiness can be a good thing. Objectively, I watch his show, I read the newsletter, and frequent his website. I check out his sources and have found them to be accurate. The issues explored and discussed are important and relevant to me, so I don't mind the occasional goofy.

With other media and those within our own government talking down Fox News, their journalists and commentators, calling for boycotts and for them to be shut down, one has to ask -
What is the motive? Why is Fox News so intimidating and considered by some dangerous? What's the full story here? Something IS missing.



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I thought you looked familiar, lol. I think I sat in the row behind you in the classroom of don't say anything if you don't have something happy to say. My question was always, then how do you deal with anything or do you just pretend it isn't there and smile? I think we're kind of runing out of time with that. I feel a lot of people are almost suffocating because they feel almost bad for pointing out the obvious - that's what I get anyway.

The Media. That's an important issue that comes through for me here, and hollywood spokes people.

I'm feeling they haven't a clue what they're talking about, but they'll take an event that happened in history using that example as why FOX is bad. They sound ignorant!

I use to watch interviews of favorite actor/actresses if I heard an advertisement they were going to be interviewed. I'd be genuinely intereted. 15 minutes into the show they would be slamming an issue, I knew in my soul was real, but they'd be using what really felt like some commercialized type of blander to downplay it or call it racial or hateful. The other feeling I got when I would listen to them is that they were actually being paid to talk that way, someone approached them to do it and they justified it as acting...so to them there was nothing wrong with it and I felt it also came as a write-off??? Lot of information watching them for 15 min., lol. So, I don't watch interviews anymore, they're lying and unresearched.

The other thing I wanted to say is look into if possible who your stations are supported by, their funding i mean.

I felt they are making too much money for the types of ratings they are getting. I feel large chunks of money are going into them from sources that aren't for the good of the American people to push a political campaign or present the corruption that's going on in a luke warm or more positive spin to the American people instead of the truth.

The money even could be from the Gov't itself, bailouts or soon to be bailouts??? to talk up the democratic and foriegn affairs in an artifical light - so kind of like a giant or 'paid for by the peoples' taxes', campaign fund for the current person in office.

These people aer not your friends. It doesn't feel like real news. More of an "understanding" of the type of reporting they are now in a hush-hush type of way, supposed to be presenting?


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Have you heard about Senate Bill 510? It's scheduled for a vote on Monday Nov 29th and 74 Senators voted it out of committee and to the floor.

Are you planning a garden? Do you already shop at produce stands and farmers markets? Are you learning how to preserve and store food? Do you work on a farm? Do you volunteer at a charitable food bank/kitchen?

If any of the above apply, please take some time this weekend to check out this piece of legislative "mushroom soil" It will grant the FDA unprecedented regulatory power over our food supply and bury small farns and businesses with compliance requirements, inspections and paperwork.

Food shortages have been addressed in this and our companion thread. This proposed legislation has the possiblity to very well create them, not to mention all the jobs it will eliminate through farms and businesses closing down. The level of micromanagement already dictated in the bill, will no doubt be amplified once the FDA gets free reign over all sources of food.

Production costs will increase and these have to be passed onto you and I, the consumers. Costs are already rising. At the grocery yesterday a pound of store brand, unsalted butter was $4.89. It will get much worse with the additional regulations proposed in this legislation.

Please take a moment to review this bill and contact your senator. Pay careful attention to how things are phrased as "protection." And remember the former White House chief of staff's comments on "not letting a good crisis go to waste." This bill has the propensity to create a crisis, and it will no doubt be taken advantage of in some form of federalization, similar to health care.

I suggested in a previous post to print-out the information from the websites we've found. If you don't have books on food preservation, natural healing, herbs, etc. the urgency in having a hard copy of this information to reference is dramatically increased if this bill passes. One can only guess as to how stringent the FDA will implement the mandates contained within. If certain things are regulated as illegal, they will be removed from some websites.

One last thing - the Senate offices are closed for Thanksgiving. I got voice mail at both this morning, and one was full. I've already emailed my concerns. Please leave a message if you can AND send an email.

Does it strike anyone as being odd how the vote on extremely important legislation is timed for around midnight, on a weekend, or the Monday after a holiday?



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Good grief LCP!!!!

No joke. 2 1/2 weeks ago, my husband was all up in arms about a judgement from some judge...I mean he was almost hostle in a disgusted way. I wish I cuold remember what it was, no matter.

I shook my head, "No...they specifically said they were going to wait...what's going on the or within a week of thanksgiving that's going to be voted on in the house/congress? That's your real issue." People won't want to focus on downers plus they'll be exhausted from the holidays.

I forgot about it until your post here and I don't keep track of this administration. They're a mess and not our 'friends'.

I'll even go as far to say that I feel Obama knows people are starting to get it and is going to spend a lot of tax money on personal things/trips, like "I'll have the last laugh..." and, this guy gets more and more like a pestilent child. Unaccommadating. This is why I refer to this person as a man-child.

Anyway, I haven't heard of this bill until now and I guess I'll have to loook into it.

About a year ago and I haven't put it together yet, but I said we're going to see more and more of Mcdonald's and Walmart in the news. It'll be wierd though, like a lot of tearing down, but the reality will be they have something to do with the govt in the end. The gov't has its eyes on them for some reason.

I just saw in another post Mcdonalds is going to be a part of the UK health policy.

As backwards as that sounds. I'll bet, Mcdonalds has it's hands tied...like as a corporation it's been officially :nudged. Like you guys can either play ball with us or....

Just because it's UK or Brazil...no matter. It will all be the same, some how, some way, all of the countries will be a part of this one system. That's what I see/feel and will probably drink heavily because of over the holidays...


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Went to the grocery store this afternoon. It was necessary as we haven't done any food shopping in over 2 months, other than perishables for hubby's lunch and picking up our Angel Food orders.

I spent this morning marking canned goods with the month/year of expiration. Black permanent markers on the lighter part of the label are much easier to see than the tiny stamped dates. Made a list and we stocked up!

My cabinets are almost full and hubby will be making a divider shelf to maximize usable space in one area. We don't have a light in or near this cabinet. Tonight I was rotating cans pretty much in the dark, and thinking there has got to be a better way. So I took a break and found some good information

shelfreliance.com (not a link, add the www.)

They offer heavy duty food system storage units, both for existing cabinets and free standing systems, food with 8-25 year shelf lives and other useful things. They have a dimensions calculator to help figure out what storage product will work best for your cabinets. Our house has hand made cabinets (circa 1945)and they aren't standard in any way.

I also checked out the products at

thefoodguys.com (add www.)

Elleise found the food storage calculator on this site, but they also have a wide variety of long-term shelf life products. I was so proud of how full my shelves were, until I used the calculator to compute food supply requirements for just me and my husband. I was thinking we've got enough for 4 or 5 months easy. However comparing that with the calculator print-out I've got 2 to 3 months tops. Adding those we would need to help and we'd be lucky to make it through a month.

Not only do we need A LOT more food, we also need A LOT more storage space. But I do have a plan, freeze dried and dehydrated foods. Their shelf life is awesome, as well as the reviews on taste, but they are expensive. We can afford one or two items a month and some of the suppliers ship free. They even have freeze dried meats. These will increase our supply dramatically and save on space.


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Hi Lcp!

I found a link just for the calculator

Emergency 1 Yr. Food Calculator. How much will you need?

You also make a really great point! I have a dehydrator, so i've been taking vegetables when they're on sale and doing just that. To be honest though I really try to push this all out somedays. It's just so hard to believe, to live in a day and age where you can't trust what you see in the news. It isn't the what's really going on.

My husband downloads the radio Glenn Beck program on a psp and listens w/headphones. I'm real sensitive to that he not tell me anything unless it's pertinent to us and what we should do. By that I mean if I say something and Glenn Beck has the proof or back up something that came through he can tell me Yey or ney, I'm wrong. He said the other day someone called Glenn a "see'er" it made me think of this forum.

I told my husband, the reason this is so hard to believe for everyone is because it isn't here yet, not all the way. Before long you'll go in someplace like for finances or health and the guy or girl on the other side of the desk is going to know everything about you. So say you go in for a health isue or insurance and you take a questionair, they'll already know that once a week you purchase 6 cartons of cigaretts...they'll trace it through your "card" but they'll have a program that keeps track of all that.

So you'll still be able to move around, but there's control over everything. I also felt what you need will go through the gov., in its entirety. So the gov. will provide you with things and you'll give whatever money you make right back to them. i see health services taking months for you to get in to get,l ike 3-6 months and they'll have a record of what innoculations you have or haven't had and will be "scheduled to get. It'll be a mark against you if you haven't had this or that.

The food thing isn't like everything goes to ashes, but the people not on "the system" will have a more difficult time paying for food and as more and more families get on the "system" we start finding increasing prices and diminishing supplies and you won't get a compensatory "raise" to keep up w/it all. I have also told my husband I see the gov. taking over farms.

What kills me is that your own gov tells you , "It's for your own good." So, it's like a Narciccist saying they have the compassion enough to know what's best for you. They just keep saying it enough times until you're actually brain washed enough or a heart string is pulled of yours and you actually begin to believe it.

I also believe the doing away with competition has to do w/making people even more brain dead than they already are. I like video games, but in moderation. What I'm seeing out here are people living in them and working just enough to purchase their next virtual wallet...

Once upon a time an "F" was to get you to try, try again...I just don't see that in the years to come. So, how will you know what you're actually good at? You won't they'll tellyou for you and you'll just do it depending on geographical location.


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Thanks for the additional food calculator, I'll check that one out. The first one I looked at was a plan to spend $5 a week and end up with food for 2 for a year. It listed out what to buy each week and when I looked at the totals, boy was I disappointed. We would have been eating bread, tomato soup, and tuna casserole for a whole year. Don't think so! If I have time to plan and buy, I'm including a little more variety!

I've read quite a bit on packaging/processing for shelf-life. One important issue is removing/reducing as much oxygen in the package/container as possible. There are food safe dessicants available at
desicare.com
oxygenabsorber.com (add the www.)
These would extend the shelf-life of dehydrated foods dramatically, and prohibit bugs and molds. They come in a range of sizes for most standard containers.

Here's some additional tips on food storage. Containers need to be in a dark, cool place. There are 3 things which will reduce shelf-life of stored foods:
Oxygen, Light and High Temperature

Avoid placing your food near an exterior wall. It should be in the area of your home which has the best climate control with temperatures in the mid 70's and low humidity. Lower temperatures are fine, but higher temps will compromise shelf-life.


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Update on Senate Bill 510. It amazes me that Congress can get anything done! Appropriations/Revenue, basically money issues, those bills must originate in the House (not the Senate). Unfortunately, this bill included some things that can not originate in the Senate, so the Big Fix is on. However, the House has its own version for our "food safety," and from what I've seen, it's even more vague in terms and implementation, while being more invasive. Yes, that is possible when the FDA gets their hands on it.

If I have one more bureaucrat say "this is for your SAFETY" I might just scream.

So while all these "food safety" issues get worked out, has anyone seen the Head of Homeland Security on the video screens in Walmart? For additional "Safety" issues we are now apparently suppose to spy on each other while shopping and report any suspicious activity to the manager. I just have one question for the Head of Homeland Security - Have you ever seen the manager at your local Walmart?


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Thanks! I need those. I knew I would I just didn't know where to start. I mean even if I'm dehydrating, you're right, shelf life is everything, especially when you don't know which year or 2 may be the hardest or the week a groccery store runs dry or is flooded or hit by a tornado or something. Plus what if your neighbor comes to you? I would offer what I could, even joining ingredients, working collectively, that would benefit even more.

Another thing you point out is the psychology of it all. Think to a time you're on a diet, having to eat the same thing over and over again and the brain freeze you get when you think to having to eat one more grapefruit or green drink, even macaroni and hotdogs or tunafish gets old on the making ends meet diet.

My specialty is herbs right now, soups and grains, yeast, evaporated milk, oils and most of it is in the freezer or shelves of the spare bedroom. We just bought 6 cases of canned vegetables @ .29 a can. I feel they'll do that maybe one more time this year and we'll hit them up again then.

I've gotten it so I can make everything from bagles to pizza, variety of breads, pumpernickle and such. We don't eat a lot of carbs but it's good to know you can make them with a bowl of soup to make you feel full if you need to and the variety changes as you mentioned. Other times it's an affordable treat and makes the house smell so good!

Thank you for keeping in touch!


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Hoping everyone had a Great Holiday! I received 2 gifts for Christmas I'm really excited about. My husband gave me the DVD series on preserving food AND built 3 shelves over the fridge to store my canning supplies. While organizing, I found more jars, seals and caps than I thought I had. Can't wait for the first crop!

The 2nd gift was a Soldier's Water Purifier. It came in a little camo bag and is smaller than the most compact umbrella. It's good for 2000 liters and we'll be testing it on the water at the Tribal Grounds next week. The water there has a high sulfur content and I'm very sensitive to sulfur. I'll post on the results.

Both of these came from Solutions from Science and their newsletter Off The Grid News. This week's edition has an article by Samara, dated 01/03/2011, advising a test run on our food supply. We "partially" did this in the weeks before our daughter's wedding. With no time to grocery shop, we ate what we had and seriously depleted our meager food supply in about 4 weeks.

If you are storing food, you need to verify your supply. Here's the basic steps, but please take a moment to read the full article at offthegridnews.com, entitled "Taking Your Food Storage for a Test Drive."
1. Don't buy any groceries for a month (save that money to replenish)
2. Using up the perishables first, eat only from what is in your home.
3. Make a list of everything you consume, including the little things like spices, baking powder/soda, etc. Make a menu for each day/week so that nothing goes to waste. This takes some time and planning, but is valuable. It helps identify shortages, and meals your family would miss that you might can prepare for.
4. What do we have left? Take an inventory. Now that you have verified the monthly quantity needed, you can more precisely stock the foods your family enjoys and are nourishing, while also providing for variety.

When we re-stocked before Christmas, I made one mistake. I didn't check the expiration dates on the canned goods at the store. Marking the cans before rotating my stock, I realized some of the items expire as much as 4 months earlier than others of the same brand, bought at the same time. This simple mistake can really cut into the shelf life of my supply and won't be repeated.

In the past, I frequently bought items with an earlier expiration date. We would use them and they wouldn't go to waste at the store. Now that I have "shelf life" on the brain, I'll be checking each can while shopping and only purchase those with the longest expiration period.


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Another update on this "Food Safety" thing. Apparently, these bills also include regulation on supplements/vitamins, but they do not contain the word "seed" which is almost reassuring, but not quite.

Can you imagine not having any vitamins or supplements? Only eating store bought foods from genetically modified (GM) plants and treated with irridation and preservatives? Only having drugs to treat illness and deficiencies? Having to purchase GM seeds each year, as most of the seeds produced by these plants are sterile?

These are not far-fetched ravings of a conspiracy theorist. These are possibilities based on the wordage in the bills and the interpretion of officials at the FDA (Food and Drug Administration). Combined with the United Nations already threatening to "punish" countries which do not allow genetically modified seeds, these possibilites are more than a little scary.

The first thing that comes to mind, How many jobs will be eliminated by this legislation? Think about all the health food stores and how this industry has grown in the past 25 years. This one segment represents millions of jobs and thousands of small businesses. Who could possibly benefit from this?

With the swearing in of the new Congress this week, a "Hit List" of legislation to investigate, alter, and/or repeal has already been generated. The "Food Safety" bills need to be on that list. Preparing for an uncertain future is hard enough without our resources being jeopardized and/or significantly limited. The implementation of this legislation could possibly do just that.

Last edited by lcp012586; 01/04/11 04:04 PM.

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Two really HUGE & GREAT points!

This stuff is still in the making. Therefore we really do have test run time to see if in fact we can get through a week, month, 2-3 months.

I feel the things to come are going to be functional, but devestating at the same time. I haven't a clue what that means, but I trust it. I guess at this point I'd have to say it means there's still function out there, but man does it get difficult.

I don't think it has just to do with money either. I feel a series of things, makes it not only non-affordable to have what we once did, but what will end up being available will be subjected to hits here and there, be it weather, trade, riots, etc. So, have your back up and get them going to some extent now.

Aside what's in the news as far as immigration goes...and this is a riot (no pun). But, I'm living in it. And the immigrants here (ya we see the riots in the news in CA or on whatever side a politician who wants votes wants to show you).

But, they KNOW it isn't good and instead of wanting to live here, permanently, they come here, get what they can and go back and forth. It's a litteral commercial what's on TV. I believe these people too because they've stayed with us when they had no other place to go.

They not being from here, and they can see it's getting bad, we should be able to see at least the same and get what we can going for us by our own means.

I'd never thought about looking at dates at the store but you're right, they put the soon to be expired cans up front.

In our life time, I don't see everything collapsing, it will come in stages though and I do see the market falling at which point those stages will have come and gone and you'll wish you would have paid attention.

Aside from learning to preserve, and do for yourself, you bring up another good point, puting it into action. Even if you have staples, could you go through the psychology of it all?

Even if it meant no electricity, gas or water for 3 weeks? Those are the types of stages I see in our time.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 01/05/11 04:19 AM.

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Dealing with the "psychology of it all" is something we can also do a "Test Drive" on.

Many have and are right now surviving on much less than most of us have currently now. I've gone weeks without electricity, days without water, when the well pump broke down and almost a year without a home phone (before cells).

When it gets a little warmer, or now if you have a fireplace, you can take your survival skills on a test drive. With children, it can be described as a game called "pioneer days." Scheduling this for when the kids will be home from school, i.e. Spring Break. 3 to 5 days would be a good time period, as the kids will get bored and frustrated quickly. So this too will take some time and planning. But the lessons learned will be invaluable for you and your children.

No electricity, no city water, no battery operated games/devices and cell phones secured, but available in case of an emergency. Figure out the best way to secure the fridge and freezer, or combine it with the "Food Storage Test Drive."

You'll be able to put much of the information shared in this topic to the test, and learn the adjustments necessary for your family's survival with some measure of comfort.


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According to Off The Grid News, The Food Safety and Modernization Act was reconciled and passed by Congress and only requires the President's signature to become the law of the land.

My concern for the word "seed" seems to be well founded. The FDA does include seeds within its definition of food. This adds yet another industry under the control of the FDA. There are many who foresee this legislation having severe consequences for our national food supply and our ability to prepare for the future. Not to mention loss of jobs due to small agricultural operations closing down. The compliance issues and record keeping mandated will overburden most, if not all, small agri-business and this will include seed producers.

For me, this is scarier than the Health Care Overhaul and I ordered seeds this afternoon. I had previously posted the websites for purchasing heirloom, open pollinating seeds, packaged for an extended shelf life. Will be trying to find some other sources. But in the meantime, here's some reminders on purchasing seeds.

Avoid seeds packaged in paper or cardboard. They don't last and mylar packaging is better. I made the mistake last spring of buying seeds with the word Organic on the package. I've since learned while the plants for the seeds may have been grown organically, that does not mean the plants are not genetically modified.

I've read this in several places, but have not found the scientific research to verify it. However, it does make sense. "GM" plants, for some reason do not absorb as many nutrients and minerals from the soil as unmodified plants. While they may be more resistant to pest/disease, this would make them less nourishing. I don't know about pollination issues with "GM" plants, but I did my own test of the seeds this spring. I prepared and stored the seeds from an outstanding bell pepper plant. Planted a dozen and only 1 sprouted and then quickly died. Those are dismal results.


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What is GM seeds. Hate to sound like a moron, but simply put I really should be use to that type of embarrassment by now wink

The "Health Care Overhaul?" Everything in my being feels like the health care thing, it's presented to me like what a spider's web looks like. You mentioned seed bill reconciling...I don't know what that is, but you meantioned that concerned you more than the Health thing.

What I'm getting is that they're one in the same, basically. They're not telling the public though. It's in the "fine-print." The Health care thing feels like everything goes through it...EVERYTHING, down to food, diet, Dr. visits, what your purchases aer at the stores, even somehow insurance and transportation, farms/agriculture, everything.

The seed thing in itself and even gardening, home gardens and such. You know how people do "grey area" things on taxes, well that's the feeling I get when it comes to "home gardening."

Like, at some point everything you use to make your own garden will somehow need to be ((??)) compliant??? So, basically, any seeds you get will come from Gov. regulated whatever. The seeds will have things in them that aren't so good. They won't be natural??? That's the feeling I get and they won't mix with other plants or seeds, like birth control...Oo, that brings up something else.

This is going to sound WAY, WAY out there, I'm even going to have to check back with myself in a day or two, because it sounds like a sci-fi horror movie, but what I just got was there are experiments going on with plants, like yes, the birth control so they don't reproduce, but I also get the things we eat and drink are going to have things in them that keep people from producing as much...a lot of miscarriages or sterilities??? As I type it I can just see how rediculous that sounds but that's what pops in.

There's a window where you can get natural seeds, but it seems even if you do, try to grow them inside or...hmmm, like the mutated seeds kind of kill those natural seeds???

I don't know. I'll have to think on this. Better yet, what did I do with my cork-openener, lol?

Thanks for being a sounding board


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GM or GMO refers to "genetically modified" seed and plants. While these may offer more resistance to pests/disease, they many not be as nutritious as unmodified/natural plants and seeds. I don't think the natural plants look that different, but the seeds they make reproduce, unlike a genetically modified plant.

If your plants are not close to a large area of "GM" plants, I don't think cross pollination would be an issue. I've spent all afternoon researching and ordering seeds and stumbled on a helpful website which compares the products of different companies.

I'm sorry to say, one company I previously listed did not receive a good review. The website is
seedbankscam.com

Good information on this one, but it doesn't include all seed sources such as these:

bepreparednow.net

humbleseed.com

I'll be ordering from Emergency Seed Bank as well. This company got a 5 star rating. Since we live in the Deep South with soaring summer temps, a history of both draught and deluge, I need a variety of seeds.

I've already ordered from Be Prepared Now. Their 37 veggie pack included several varities I grew up with, know they do well in the South, and was $55. They have a 6 melon ($23) variety and a lettuce variety pack. I got 10% off my order using coupon code "thesurvivalistblog" and free shipping. I also ordered some mylar bags and oxygen absorber packs.

At this point, my main concerns are varieties suitable for our climate and resealable mylar bags and containers versus non-resealable ones. I won't have an acre to till and plant, unless we're already at our safe place. With the resealable products, I'll be able to try each variety to see how it fares in our climate this spring and have useable seeds left over.

In my rush to get orders placed today, I may end up returning some purchases due to reviews, growing zones, and the resealable issue. It will take some time for the FDA to implement all the new regulations for the Food Safety Act and there is still the possibility Congress may not allocate the funding required. It's truly MASSIVE and includes setting up FDA offices in other countries!

We still have a bit of time, but quantities may be depleted quickly. Dec/Jan are normally when gardeners order their seeds. A rush to purchase non-hybrid, non-GMO seeds before the FDA regulations may force some of these suppliers to close means demand is high. You question whether our gardens will have to be compliant. If the only seeds available are the hybrid, genetically modified ones, we'll all be in forced compliance.

I've mentioned Survive and Thrive Supply and their website has been down all afternoon. That's worrisome.

Reconciliation refers to sorting out the differences between the 2 bills. As I posted previously the Senate had Bill 510 and the House had Bill 2749 (I think that's the correct number). The Senate's bill had some "origination" issues and the House's bill addressed additional areas of regulation. All that got sorted out and the final "reconciled" bill was approved by both the Senate and the House.

"everything goes through it...EVERYTHING" You hit the target with that. At this rate, EVERY ASPECT of our life will involve the federal government in some way. Starting with health care, some need more than others. However, with a compromised, limited and less nutritious food supply, ALL of us will need more health care. This is why the Food Safety and Modernization Act concerns me even more than the Health Care Legislation.

Your comments on birth control are not nearly as WAY out there as you think. Studies have been done on the environmental impact of chemical hormone usage. The conclusions reached were not good and showed how our chemical laden waste appears to already be affecting the environment, animals and plants. There are current studies on increased levels of sterility and increased hardship with natural conception.

Along the lines of chemical exposure issues, I've often wondered if the dramatic increase in autism is somehow linked to chemicals that took a generation or 2 to finally show the result. Well, that's a tangent thought not well suited for this topic.


Last edited by lcp012586; 01/05/11 11:23 PM.

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Another Validation
Back in September Elleise mentioned higher utility bills. We received notification this week our electric rates will be increased 10%! That's a big jump in price.

Also back in September I mentioned there was an important piece to the survival puzzle I was missing. It's been nagging at me for months and I stumbled on it this week. It started with some articles in the Frugal Living forum here within the Money topic.

Foraging is that puzzle piece, literally living off the land with edible wild plants which can be very high in minerals and nutrients. To get a jump start on my plans for a nature walk with a very experienced naturalist this spring, I started looking for websites and found a good one. It's relatively new and does include a forum.

ofthefield.com

Within the forum are articles on edible wild plants which include nutritional information, uses, preparation techniques, and cautions. Most of these plants are common across the country. The website is based on books by Linda Runyon. She homesteaded in the Adirondacks for years, living off the land. The forum articles include color photos to help identify the plants, and I have at least one growing in my yard. I thought it was a weed!

I've started my Edible Plant Journal, printing each article. To save paper and ink, I highlight the article and photo, and then print the selection. I'll have my camera and a friend to take notes when we go on our nature walk. With that I can make up additional pages for my journal.

Another good website for learning of indigenous plants, particularly in the eastern part of the country is

nativetech.org

This site is massive in content and includes everything from weaving mat rugs, plants, clothing to recipes.

Foraging presents some complications, such as private/public land restrictions and possible plant contamination from chemicals and run-off. There are also possible allergic reactions which need to be considered. I'm just getting started on this puzzle piece and will post as I learn. I'm re-thinking the weed killer this spring in the yard. We haven't put any down in over 2 years anyway. Those pesky dandelions will still be pulled up, but served in a salad, rather than dumped in the compost.


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Thanks for the great links!

It's really interesting how people are feeling, even if they don't know what it is exactly they're feeling, it's making them feel passionate enough to begin learning how to sustain themselves.

Foraging is just huge. You do need to be careful about fertilizers and property but dandelians alone have so many different uses, teas, wines, medicinal properties, salad fixings, etc.

Aside from that, just utizing even leftover veggies, like when garlic starts to sprout and you're not using it or when potatoes begin to spud. I even replant chives and seeds leftover from pepper plants.

This is the first year I invested in a garden lamp and in just doing that all of my herbs are covered and we can have fresh salad greens and tomatoes into the winter and they're all organic.

I cut into a tomato and this was wierd, but there were little tomatoe plants growing inside so I planted them and they're starting to grow. We'll see if they continue. I was just looking for tomato seeds too. Didn't think of looking in there.

It takes you to a place where you realize what you need and empower yourself to bring it about, even saving 100's of dollars in the process instead of giving other people the money to do it for you.

In the meantime it's a good practice run should it not be just an option but a necessity to do it for yourself.


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I do agree. Wild edible plants are something we need to start experimenting with now, since we do have some time. While things like acorns and pinestraw are edible and nutritious, they require preparation skills.

One of the first things to learn is how to forage safely. I've already read in several places to not harvest plants within 200 feet of a roadway. These plants, and the ground in which they grow, can be contaminated by vehicle fumes and run-off from the road surface. If you have acreage available from which to gather wild plants, you also need to learn the history of that land. This includes your own yard. Contaminated soil can affect plants for years.

Was there any type of industry on or near that land? What type of chemicals might still be in the soil? What type of herbicides and pesticides do your neighbors use which might have been blown by the wind or come into your yard via rain run-off?

It will take some investigation to find an area safe for foraging and you will need permission as well. Once that's accomplished you can identify the edible plants growing there and learn how to include them in your food supply.


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Perfect response for organizing. You have no idea how greatful I am for just the A.) B.) C.) of it all smile

I've had a couple of flashes...one has to do w/2012 elections and all.

The other has to do w/solar generators. Just get one if you can.

Also 2025 is a year of interest. Do you have anything on that? In 3 years it hasn't gone away...2025??

I'm also seeing a huge amount of almost "inconveniences" so it's not like Armegedon, but these things are more like waves and there are vast amounts of individuals old and young feeling these waves.

Those feelings are almost causing emotional crisis w/in them


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With all the political bantering, the one thing recently heard and read (from several sources) that concerns me most is voter fraud. Accusations have been slung like mud for over 10 years now, but there are facts. One just has to dig a little.

This includes not only actual voter fraud, but perceived fraud, which gnaws at our faith in the system. I've posted on Mr. Soros' previous actions in our companion topic. Generating distrust for the election process within a country is one of those "previous actions" carried out by "his" organizations. Keep in mind, this man basically stated he works behind the scenes, through others, and enjoys it.

My privilege and right to vote was fought for, won, and protected with literally the blood of my ancestors. The European part of my family arrived well before the American Revolution and the Native American part was already here. Holding my privilege and right to vote as sacred is something I share with many immigrants. They also realize voting is a responsibility as well.

Our Country is divided on so many levels. Hearing statements from elected officials, after the President called for civility in Tuscon, I can't get the phrase "Divide and Conquer" out of my mind. The percentage of those registered to vote, who actually do, is already dismal. How much will "perceived voter fraud" reduce this further? How many of us already feel like our vote doesn't matter?

When fewer and fewer participate, I think it increases the power of those already in office. It eases their re-election significantly. Based on what was experienced in the 2008 campaign and election, I worry 2012 will be nothing close to "civil." Accusations of voter fraud (both founded and unfounded) may be widespread.


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LCP,

Just before my husband lfet for work I asked actually told him...I had just gotten done watching Medium and I said, "You know? I can't help but wonder if there isn't someone working closely with that series that sees things too. I know there is an actual Allison Dubois, but I told him I felt she is seeing things still that "infracts" if that's a word, on issues too close to hand.

The point of mentioning this is that, following this I said, "Is it too early to talk about voter fraud?"

You'd have to have seen us, he's getting ready for work puting on a tie and I come up with...nahhhh, not a loaded question just before he leaves.

So here it is!

Yes, there IS going to be voter fraud, but not on the scale of what we've seen in the past. The feeling I get is that there will be heads on a platter if something doesn't go through.

There are a lot of little nobody's feeling like they can help or be a part of a bigger something with a slight of hand. So, it isn't like a huge conspiracy or rather what it is, is that it doesn't take much to "wink-wink" get a nobody to be a part of something that makes them feel like a somebody and it will be presented in a way like they will be helping make history. I also get that this voter fraud comes from a HUGE amount of non-profit groups???????

Why I feel this is coming through is that there will be other people around the nobody's wanting to be sombody's that can take videos, Iphone photos, recordings etc. and be a part of something that is part of what makes anyone of us or a situation great, just the highroad, truth.

I dont' think people get what or just what it is they will be up against, but it's kind of like the fable "David and Golliath"

Back then they had a rock and a leather sling and took down a giant. here you just only have an iphone.

Use it.


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We're getting ready to head down to FL for a tradition Creek (American Indian) gathering called a "Stomp." It's named for the dance we'll be doing tonight.

The voter fraud thing has actually been going on for at least 10 years now. Accusations began with Bush's first election and really geared up with his re-election. The entire thing was based on recounting the votes in FL. There were numerous accusations that Bush was not actually elected, the presidency was stolen, and these continue six years later.

You're correct about non-profits getting involved. They already are, ACORN for example. Unions are another source of coercion for votes. The unions are also trying to eliminate the secret ballot standard for voting to unionize. They are trying to make it an open, public vote. Thinking on this, I can come up with only one conclusion. They must want to include peer pressure in with their coercion and intimidation.

Non-profit groups have been providing transportation to voting polls for years. I'm sure many of them have honest intentions of merely helping people be involved in the election process. But I have often wondered what is discussed on those buses in route.

But there are some bright spots in all this. The investigations into ACORN shed light on how some of these non-profits operate. People are beginning to realize the benefit packages "negotiated" (I use that term loosely) by unions are a large part of not only corporate insolvency, but government insolvency as well on local, state and national levels. The unions wrangled "perqs" for their members that have proven to be unsustainable, and an immense amount of their budgets don't go to member services, but to political contributions.

Think about the differences between two recent rallies in DC. One, sponsored by Glenn Beck, was attended by several hundred thousand who arrived via private transportation. This huge crowd was respectful and helpful to each other. Afterwards the Mall area was basically clean, with excess trash bagged and set next to trashcans. The other was sponsored by more than 20 different organizations, many of which provided transportation for those who wanted to attend. If you watched any footage of these two events, I'm sure you noticed the different tone and behaviour. Many who attended the second rally left early and the grounds were completely trashed. The attendance at the second rally was touted to exceed the first, but photos don't lie.

My point is that with over 20 organizations involved, they couldn't garner the attendance numbers one man did. I'm hopeful this is an example of how many are waking up, realizing the balderdash they have been fed over the years, and are no longer willing to participate.

I think those in power are desparate to retain that power, which corrupts. In the elections this past November, challenges of voter fraud were raised by both sides all over the country. I fear this will only compound in our next elections which will include the presidential race. However, if enough of us DO wake up and vote with knowledge about the candidates, not based on how others told us to vote, maybe, just maybe, we can head some of "what may come" off at the pass.


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What do you think or feel about this?

Egypt Protesters Blackout of Internet and Communication Networks

They also are limiting bread in groccery stores 10 rolls per person. My husband actually showed this to me and asked what I thought. I was glad I knew how to make baguettes, rolls, bagles and such, at least, and with air yeast if I had to.

I said, somehow someway, this thing ends up aiding the people who oppose Israel and I also felt gas per gallon, we're going to see up around $5.00 gallon at least. I've posted about the $5.00 gallon before, but it feels like this plus the economy are some of the things that end up bringing it about.

I also get a feeling about a very, very large quake. When I made my arm sway like they were holding a baby and told my husband I feel like the Earth's crust feels like a ship to me, he felt I should post that.

Oh and peer pressure, I agree! Expect no punches held with the schools, all ages from grade school to colleges to be hit upon as elections near. The kind of thing I'm getting is they are so passioate they almost become disprespectful and they are encouraged to "wink-wink" enlighten the people and parents that just need more information...they don't understand, etc.


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I was sitting at the computer, only half listening to the news last night. I had the same feeling of anticipation when riots broke out in Thailand, Greece, England, Tunisia creep up. Is it starting(for us)? Am I ready?

I both felt and heard the answer resounding through my body. NO, not yet. When I hear "IT" has happened, there is always a unique physical response. I can actually feel the pressure raised from my shoulders and the stress fleeing my body. My shoulders are still heavy this morning. The weariness of grief is still sapping my energy.

Even with the horrible economy here, we still have it far better than those in other countries. Many of us have lost darn near everything. But that can make what we have left all the more precious and us less likely to chunk it all and join the chaos. Don't get me wrong, those calling for riots in America have been at it for quite a few years, but have incorporated what they learned in the 60's.

Organizing and inciting riots now includes stealth and a massive build up of people and resources. Some of these speakers may be publicly considered merely organizers trying to help the folks, while in closed meetings they openly call for riots and the destruction of our government. Back in the 60's such groups were monitored and infiltrated by law enforcement. Now we have cell phones, small video cameras and the internet for infiltration and immediate publicity.

The "Behind the Scenes Machine" has already been outed. If TV ratings are any indication, those choosing facts and logic over violent rhetoric and riots are increasing in numbers.

"IT" will happen eventually. It's been almost 2 and a half years since my dreams and the extended time has taken its toll on me physically. However, if more time is needed for more to realize what's really going on beforehand, that's fine. Perhaps those ready, prepared, and willing to help with recovery will far outnumber those willing to chunk it all and jump into the chaos when "IT" happens.

Last edited by lcp012586; 01/29/11 12:23 PM.

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Read some information on storing flour this week on "Off The Grid News."

With a little preparation white flour can have a shelf life of several years. Freeze it for at least 3 days and then store it tightly packed with as little air as possible in a cool, dark, dry spot. Freezing kills any bugs or eggs and as little air as possible in the container will extend its usefulness.

Wheat flour on the other hand, needs to stay in the freezer all the time. It goes rancid much quicker, like brown rice.

For an even longer shelf life (10 to 15 years) consider whole grain wheat stored in air tight buckets with additives to prevent it going rancid and deter bugs. You'll also need a quality mill of the hand crank variety if you want to do any baking.

Last edited by lcp012586; 01/29/11 12:39 PM.

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Wow, I got to "Sapping my energy" and decided to post the rest of what I felt.

The administration...it doesn't feel right. Not like an administration should feel.

I almost want to say, someone over here close to the administration doesn't want chaos to end. In fact it feels as if they are striving for it.

The energy I feel associated with this especially, isn't one that if I were a leader would feel. The chaos doesn't feel disheartening when I look to them. It feels like someone, no some people stoke a fire and then groups are going to get riled up over what many if at all half even understand what the real issues are.

Meanwhile it won't be taken seriously anymore than the job crisis but you'll hear a lot about being "sensitive" to people and not offending them, basically you'll be encouraged to do nothing! It's a curtsy in the middle of cross-fire. It doesn't make any leadership sense nor has anything been resolved, nothing.

There's a great deal of effort addressing trigger issues though, things that people feel passionate about. It's as if that reel keeps them going at eachother instead of what's going on in front of their eyes.

If there is world disorder, whatever party that says they are for the "little" people though they can't handle criticisms themselves, will appear to be forces that reckon. Riots don't happen over night nor do organized groups that support the cause.

Lastly, I heard some nim-whitted response to Egypts blackout of the internet. That because they have only "a" provider and we have many, that it could never happen here. It would take "too" much organization to pull it off.

Really? Who regulates the internet? In the brokerage business, when the gov't had issues with a bond or otherwise, we got a nifty "red alert" no questions asked and we pulled the bond.

I just know the send button from the Federal Communications commision could never pull off a similar feat under similar conditions, never wall

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 02/01/11 08:43 PM.
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hi eleise recently i posted about the threat of world war and you had concerns the same as me, there is an article called the anglo saxon mission that ive just read . whatever took me to the site i read it on is beyond me. i dont know if im allowed to mention this other site so if i get told off i will not repeat it, its on google and key in the words project camelot the anglo saxon mission - it will amaze you if you read it. regards lawrence.

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It won't offend me if you'd like to mention it.

If there's money involved I just ask that I have a look at it or talk to the person before they place an advertisement link, that's all smile

Information well, to me the more the better. It's taken me years to muddle through mistakes and just do it the honest way. I think I'm going on 7 years this site, but 20 yrs overall going public.

I'm slow too so dick and jane versions are great and if you feel a link is helpful feel free to share, really.


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I agree the FCC would be hard pressed to completely shut the internet down in our country on its own. However, this is one of the components of Crisis security, just like cell phone service. Both of these can be shut down by Presidential Order. The internet providers would have to respond exactly as your brokerage firm did to a Red Alert.

If some providers remained up, the military does have the authority to ensure Presidential orders are complied with. I'm sure the military intranet would remain operational.


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hi eleise, i dont know if you had a look on the project camelot site but if you do there is some real information that im sure would interest you and many more people, if the info is true then it proves our clairvoyance is a hundred percent accurate on this subject, the things me and you talked about are in the dialogue of a report that world war three was planned and is in the process and has now begun, everything in the report is falling into place and has done since 2005? it is quite a long report and its content seems to be exactly as i predicted many years ago to happen round about 2011 to 2013. regards lawrence.

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i see the future getting worse, especially flooding and earthquakes? also volcanoes erupting that have been sleeping for years. the magnetic imbalance that will take place in the near future will be the cause of these events, the earthquakes will cause the plates underground to move horrendously creating tsunamis of 150 metres high, japan will sink and devastation will occur? areas also in eastern china and india will see devastation, even the san andreas fault in america will move and surrounding areas will sink rapidly, the imbalance will cause water to move in a whiplash effect across the world where there will be land in places where no land was. all the rainforests that were cut down for timber was the start of this nightmare to come, there are massive oil rigs all over depleting the earth below of oil and minerals,. and something has to move in the strata layers below land and sea level. some people have predicted something similar to what im saying but i actually saw these events taking place in 1973.

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Elleise, you mentioned "grocery stores" in another topic and a few days ago commented on making bread with "air yeast." I've never baked with yeast and have no clue what air yeast is. When you get a moment, please clue us in.

I'm still watching the progress of the Food Safety and Modernization Bill. In November, Republicans received the majority of seats in the House, and new committee chairpeople were appointed. Back in September a pump got primed for me with the director of our new Emergency Management office and I think (hope) it has happened again.

I learned this week that MY Representative is the new chairperson for the House of Representative's FDA (Food and Drug Administration) oversight committee! Still trying to find a complete copy of the ratified bill to base my arguments with exact wording. I have several friends involved in politics and hopeful they will help me push to defund and repeal this monstrosity. This legislation was passed and reconciled under the cover of darkness and during the Holidays. Love that Transparency!

As with Health Care Reform, the more details we learn of the 2,000 +/- pages, the scarier it becomes. I need to find out if the Senate also has an FDA oversight committee and that Chairperson's name. But any action must originate in the House, due to those "pesky" revenue issues, and both of my Senators originally sponsored the darn thing. Expressing my concerns to their offices resulted in responses full of mushroom soil.

Hopefully my House Representative will be a tad more responsive if based only on the exorbitant amount of money required to fund and expand the FDA so massively. I have met him and attended a town hall meeting on health care. He appears to listen and despite a tight schedule, allowed that meeting to run-over almost an hour. If anyone else here would like to express their concerns, his name is Jack Kingston and he's from Georgia.


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You know, about a week before Thanksgiving, my husband was telling me something about some politician a judge maybe(it was a major headline in the news) stating he was going to wait until Thanksgiving week to make a huge decision. Oh, that bothered my husband!

I was half listing to him because the more he spoke the more my stomach would get tight and my heart began to race.

I said, "nu-uh"...and he stopped talking mid-sentence. I said, "Look to the whitehouse instead. While your headlines will be featuring this judge guy, this admistration will be doing something while people are preoccupied with this other junk. What's going on during the time frame of Thanksgiving? That will be or should be your real concern, the real danger"

He said he didn't know of anything at the time. Looking back now, I think it was this food/health thing, which to me feels like it's part of the exact same thing.

Also, this administration isn't for the little people like they say,even if you the people are, they are for one big system that they control, period. You won't feel the pain until it is all in place. The people already on welfare, they're not going to complain because they're already in the system and living fairly comfortable for not working. Once everyone else is on the sytem, then you'll feel it.

I also feel the system is already in place to a large degree, now they just need to channel the heards of cows, like farm animals, The people I feel are seen as livestock. They're just going through the formalities right now. so, there's no time for slacking to slow this thing down.

This other thing in Egypt, there's 2 sides to me. It feels like this, someone is smiling, they are pleased at the chaos and protecting their people. That protection comes from a person over here. Egypt or what's going on with Egypt involves some of their people, it's part of them. The other thing/side is that take a good look at those photos because once this system is set up it falls like all the others and we end up having riots.

This is important, the people who end up winning the riots are going to be those that have real-time anger issues. Meaning, anger will be anger in the beginning, but the people who are angry over something that's not happening to them at the moment, but happened some 100 or 200 yrs ago, they fall. The people who are physically, mentally and spiritually hurting here in this time frame, their passion wins and they will be prepared because of their realtime hardships. Their strength is equivelent to the mother that lifts an automobile to rescue her child. They don't kow where that strength comes from, it just does.

I'll post the air yeast thing in a separate post. I have to get my instructions. wink

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 02/03/11 01:23 PM.

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As for the chaos and riots, it continually amazes me how you hit every nail head squarely, Elleise. On Jan 29th you wrote "Someone over here, close to the administration doesn't want chaos to end...they are striving for it."

This precisely describes the tactics Mr. Soros has used in other countries to collapse their economies, while making billions for his enterprises. Considering how many times he and those working with him have been at the White House, I'd say he's fairly close to the Administration. But you also describe the actions and words of many others, most, if not all, in academia, political organizations, think tanks and consulting firms.

Chaos is being intentionally stirred up HERE. Those with the Big Spoons are already using events and unrest in other countries as additional credence, and may even have a spoon in those pots. If I hear the phrase "Bottom up, Top Down" again, I will scream. It concerns me how many people are caught up in the hype, emotion, and are not actually hearing what is being said. Bottom up, Top down, I guess those in the middle get ripped to shreds. That would include me.

The person who has used this phrase so frequently recently described "Social Justice" as being able to switch your life for anyone else's with assurance it would be equally satisfying. I'll admit, sometimes, as Dave Matthews sings "it's better to be somebody else." HOWEVER, I do not want assurance my life is the same as everyones. My life is what I have made of it. I may not have much, but I've worked hard for what I do have.

One of Webster's definitions for the word Justice - Reward or Penalty as deserved. This is in direct conflict with the idea of a homogenous society where everyone is guaranteed the same standard of living. There are at least 2 sides to every "story." Will the other side of this one be that we are also LIMITED to that same standard of living despite ingenuity and hard work? Is this from some utopic sci-fi movie, or from Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall?"

With the pot of chaos so vigorously stirred, it's hard for us to realize what is REALLY going on. Corporations are touted as "Evil Capitalists," but cozied up to during campaigns, and rewarded with supporting laws and regulations. The "Haves" are criticized as stingy and the "Have Nots" are told they deserve more. Our children are told their parents are clueless as to how things "ought" to be. Those who disagree with "Social Justice" and redistribution of wealth are ignorant and racist.

We are being attacked on multiple fronts, and divided to prepare for the conquer. "Someone" is following The Art of War to the letter, and as you say, we are being encouraged through intimidation and chaos to do nothing.

Last edited by lcp012586; 02/03/11 02:04 PM.

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Each of us needs to find their voice. I have little wealth and should be rolling in splendor at the thought of getting money.

It feels artificial, insincere. Plus even if there are corrupt corporations and CEO's, why not just actual penalties instead of being promised this other thing (the equality thingy)? It's about as real as a commercial for a steamy hot cheesy pizza. By the time you get either you'd have better luck at playing a game of frizby golf.

The healthcare, your precidence will be based on what the gov't feels is a precidence and it won't be based on race. It will be based on what they want to spend money on which will be based on what helps the people who are in bed with them, that's it. Expect more miscarriages and infertility and children with autism.

Me personally I'm already studying herbology and homeopathy. I already have one recipe for an antibiotic and it kills a cold, sore throat, earache in it's tracks in 1-3 days. I've been using it for 7 years. You have to get the cold as soon as you start clearing your throat or feel run down, otherwise it takes more like 7. Took me 3 years to make it but it works.

This thing w/Egypt, look to the background of the person replacing the fellow who's currently in power. It's as if Israel is a doughnut hole?

Lastly if you're feeling one ioda of guilt for being an American, they've gotten to you. Like making you think you want to buy something in a million years you'd never thought you needed or even wanted.

Un do the damage, quickly. You're not racisct, you're not intolerant, but your silence is the equivelent of an enemy using their oppenents own artillery against them!

The middle people are actually the ones who I feel survive. There will be work, it isn't a free ride, but they are the ones that end up being the 3rd little pig smile


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I strongly agree with your 3rd little piggie analogy. We should all be building "brick" houses based on knowledge, self sufficiency and survival techniques, whether we are in the middle that may be ripped to shreds or not.

We need to emulate the pioneers and others who survived periods of chaos with ingenuity and self reliance. Of course, with one exception, don't kill the "Natives," learn from them. My apologies, my ethnicity kicked in for a minute. But even the least amount of research reveals their tenacity for survival and their ingenuity in using what they had. Althought not really objective, I can't think of finer examples of survival against all odds other than the American Indian and the Australian Aborigine.

The more I learn of my heritage, their skills and tenacity, the more I am assured I can survive, regardless of what the future may hold. Despite all the chaos, I remain confident. As I learn and share these skills of survival, I am insuring the future in some way.


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That's something I without hesitation agree with.

My husband came up w/this one all on his own this evening and of course as usual I can't sleep, lol.

But his words, "This thing is like a tidle wave and it's way up here at the top. It's so big, the only thing left for us to do is educate ourselves and be prepared. If this thing comes crashing down, it'll make Hitler look like a pea in the snow."

This emanuel person in Chicago...as my husband was talking I could hear metal gears sliding into place. I said, "It wouldn't take much to make whomever is currently in Chicago that this guy wants to replace, look bad, making a name for himself.

Big cities will be checkpoints of some type. They will have a common denominator other than being heavily populate. There will be names to them, specific denominators."





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Using creative camouflage can be an affective security measure in times of civil unrest. I'm not referring to camo netting over your house, or military styled clothes. I'm referring to making yourself, your home inconspicuous and less a target for theft and looters.

After my daughter's wedding, she was quite offended when a few of her friends asked "How could your parents possibly afford your huge wedding?" It was actually a wonderful compliment for me and verification my camouflage efforts are working. I had to explain to my daughter there is safety in not being "showy" of one's wealth. While we are certainly not rich, we are preparing for whatever the future may bring. That's our little secret, known only to the few in our network.

Here's some of the things we have been doing for the past year to blend into our neighborhood. We have older vehicles, i.e. 92 and 98 and neither are washed regularly. My little car is missing 3 hubcaps and is no longer white. But it gets around 30 mpg and I will drive it until it falls apart around me. Both vehicles are well serviced, just not very pretty on the outside.

Our house is a small, older bungalow. We have a nice yard, but nothing fancy in landscaping or lawn furniture. It's pretty plain and the carport is a bit junky. The backyard fence is obviously homemade, but nice and sturdy. I do all the yardwork and my neighbors know it. We never put boxes out with the trash. I don't want my neighbors to know what new things we have purchased. The boxes are broken down and taken to a recycling center. We live in the older, less affluent section of our little town. Passing our house, one would assume we don't have much and take only minimal care of what we do have. This less than flattering assumption is exactly what I am aiming for.

I am frequently seen shopping in thrift stores and re-use my Goodwill bags at every opportunity. I seldom wear any jewelry, not even a wedding band. We dress very casually, jeans and T-shirts most of the time. In public, we blend in well. We don't eat out much and our favorite spots are quite casual and affordable.

Not everyone can camouflage as thoroughly as we do. The type and location of your home has much to do with it. But you can still use some of these techniques to blend in to your community a little more. For those who insist on having the biggest, the best, the newest, the fanciest, they might as well also purchase a sign for their yard which reads "Loot us First."


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100% accurate!!!!

whatever is going on, there's an underlying current stiring. Youth especially are being primed or encouraged or nudged in a way that is getting them riled up at the wealthy. When looting becomes more and more necessary for survival, wealthy places and people that just really stand out seem to get hit first, well, stores actually, but it will take one voice to stir a group of many.

We live like you do and break down boxes and play down the precautions we're taking, and food we have that with a little water can turn into eggs, milk, mushrooms, strawberries. I don't want to be holed up in a gymnasium some day as a shelter unless the untire house disapears or something.

And you are equally accurate about nosy neighbors. Stock piles will get around like wildfire if there's a national emergency wink

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For over a year we've been discussing here, and in our companion topic, civil unrest in the US. The protests in the Middle East, which do have some level of coordination, have been dubbed "Day of Rage" and are proliferating quickly from country to country.

"Hello Wisconsin"

Yesterday, the New York Times reported on demonstrations at the Capital in Madison. Those protesting increased contribution rates for pension and health coverage for unionized state employees have also surrounded the homes of the Governor and at least one state legislator. The Governor has only been in office for 6 weeks and is faced with millions in deficit for this year and 3+billion in state debt.

Where do you get your information? I heard mention of this on the Glenn Beck show while preparing supper the other day. I did a search which initially drug me into the "blogosphere." Further down the search list results I found the link to this article, and by golly they even had photos!

At least one group (newly formed on facebook and very small) is calling for a "Day of Rage" in of all places Wisconsin. When one protest is successful they can become contagious. I'm not the first person to say this and there are many historical examples. Protest "mania" is building and where we get our information will be of great important in the coming months.

Had I relied solely on the "blogs" I would have assumed this was much ado about nothing. However the NY Times photos showed thousands within the Capital and on the grounds. Local and State newspapers are a good source in confirming national reports. Most have their headline stories online and are easily searched.

Wherever you may live, if you haven't paid that much attention to the news in the past, NOW might be a good time to start. But please keep in mind there is blatant bias both in the news industry and in blogs. We each need to cross reference and verify sources to ensure we are getting an accurate report of what has and is happening, if for nothing more than convenience.

If I had business in Madison around March 12th, I'd probably try to reschedule, if only to avoid possible traffic jams. Good Information and Safety should be a priority.

I also caught a short bit of footage of the protestors. A reporter was asking 2 teens why they were there. Both were clueless! I don't have issue with peaceful protest. Our Constitution guarantees our right to assembly. I do have concerns with involving children. Any protest or demonstration is likely to include unstable individuals. Combined with those who are upset and angry, things can get out of hand quickly.

As in the Middle East, protests and demonstrations are very likely to become contagious in the US. Each of us has the right to participate. If you choose to join in, please consider the safety of your children, as well as yourself.



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Originally Posted By: lcp012586


"Hello Wisconsin"

Yesterday, the New York Times reported on demonstrations at the Capital in Madison. Those protesting increased contribution rates for pension and health coverage for unionized state employees have also surrounded the homes of the Governor and at least one state legislator. The Governor has only been in office for 6 weeks and is faced with millions in deficit for this year and 3+billion in state debt.

At least one group (newly formed on facebook and very small) is calling for a "Day of Rage" in of all places Wisconsin.

If I had business in Madison around March 12th, I'd probably try to reschedule, if only to avoid possible traffic jams.


Well, these could be explaining the inner city riots I wrote about in the "What do you see for the economy/elections" thread. But, in those visions there was smoke and looting and there was a hazy green-like hughe in the sky during the daytime.

I'm expecting something in MI or from MI, or MN or both??? Have you heard anything that correlates w/that? Somehow Chicago seems to be connected in some way w/these as well?


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good points you raised the other day eleise, and its all coming true, i expect looting etc to go on over here before long, its ok for the rich, but there are some needy people being ignored help all over the world. this government we have would turn our troops on us if we rioted, they done it years ago to the miners.

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I suspect or feel, there's a strong possiblity for that to happen over in Egypt regardless how the media is spinning the uprising.

The feeling I'm getting, I know that gov't has been turned over to the military, but what I feel is that they'll remain until this other thing slides in and it's possible this muslim brotherhood thingy, i'm cautious/apprehensive about what Egypts dictator will be replaced with.

It feels as if someone is hoping or trying to get some form or group or person having connection w/this brotherhood to take over.

People will never conform to what this brotherhood is trying to do and their dangers feel as if they are being played down. These people feel ike finaticals/lunatics that really feel they will take over the world.

This correlates with the post I wrote about African Americans having a window of about 10 years that favor their efforts. They were 6 years into their 10 when I posted that. What they do w/those ten years will be where they stay, regarless of what they feel about an endless payback for what their ancestors went through.

Plain and simple it will never be enough, and end up continuing as a "victim" race. The people who actually do something with those window years will be the successors, the peole still complaining will fall the hardest.

I posted that they will be "replaced" meaning focused on, with a more "significant" race, meaning important to the gov. African American will be utilized for votes. It's the worst type of exploitation, because they will be "humored" to get those votes.

The more significant race that moves in and is sliding in and has been comes from the East. This race is somehow pivitol to this Gov'ts agenda. They will have the greatest pull, why? Because they will be producers as well as have a staple this country will utilize as well.

You asked awhile back of some of the things I had been shown when I was in the hospital. Well, lol. There you go wink

I had a recap of a dream theother night. I'm waiting for feedback from someone in the military. If it's o.k. w/them, then I'll post it later. I was sleepwalking through it.


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There is a commonality between Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and possibly Minnesota (not sure about MN), and I'm certain to raise some ire with this, but here goes.

Labor Unions are the connection on the source of much fuel for the demonstrations in Madison. These are all heavily unionized states.

At the start of the Industrial Revolution back in the 1800's and well into the 1900's, workers experienced inhumane treatment, extreme safety hazards and downright exploitation. Women and children were not excluded and probably treated worse. Work animals were considered more valuable. There was always a line of workers to replace someone hurt or killed. A mule had to be purchased. Unions were a solution to this dire situation and allowed workers to affect changes within their industry. With the production boom experienced after WWII, the Unions grew at an exorbitant rate in both resources and power.

I think many would agree that power began corrupting a few years later in the 60's. With high percentage of membership, unions could shut a plant or mill down in hours. They had corporations in a vise grip and knew it. With each contract negotiation, benefit packages and salaries increased. State and Federal government allowed their employees to unionize and the power, resources and influence of the unions increased even more.

Through the next 3 decades the US experienced several recessions, and a dramatic increase in foreign competition and imports. The Rust Belt was created with closed factories across the North and Midwest states. While Southern corporations and governments agressively opposed unions for many years, they did succumb. Textile mills and other business were eventually forced to close as high wages and benefits eliminated the profit margin for things made in the USA.

Why? If a product cannot be produced at an affordable and competitive price, it won't sell. With high wages and benefit package liabilities, our companies could not compete with cheaper imports.

Now we're in the new millenium and people are living much longer into their retirement. Those high wages and benefit packages which were "collectively bargained" (I would use blackmailed) over the past few decades have now become unsustainable for both corporations and governments.

Simply put, there's not enough money coming in to cover the pensions, payroll, benefits and operations. There have to be cuts and they will need to be deep, painful ones.

It's particularly bad within governments. They don't produce, their only source of revenue is our tax dollars. Their payrolls have swelled in number of employees and salaries, some significantly higher than average for the area or inflation adjustments.

Despite massive lay-offs in the past few decades, the unions have been consistent, reliable and large contributors to political campaigns. It is estimated their combined contributions during the 2008 election year was $500 Million.

How many laid-off union members could have been helped with $500 million in assistance over the past 3 years?

Helping workers may have been the original intent. However, I think grabbing "as much as we can to keep those union dues coming in so we can get our 'friends' elected" might be the new intent. I fear Wisconsin is just the beginning.



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Before our living arrangements now, like right before, my huband and I were on the road or OTR (trucking). We went from N-S E-W and everything in between. We did flatbedding, which really takes expertise in securing because your 100,000 lb load can go wrong anywhere.

Some factories worked well. They were usually those with Hispanic workers or good ol' fashioned American workers that took pride in their company. Boy were they efficient!

Union factories or those in Cleveland, they didn't care how much time your company wasted while they sat there playing cards, smoking or putzing around. Legs on the desks, snickering, and cocky attitudes, "We're on break!"

Hours? Really?

Oh well, your companies folded didn't they? Out of work, they live off of a lump fund or like insurance.

More and more companies will go out of business and somehow they've, Union heads have been promised a place in the govt. just a feeling.

Along with Unions, though there's Muslim stuff. The riots, yes, starting I posted initially about Egypt but felt we'd see them popping up all over and hadn't associated it w/muslim bortherhood. Hadn't even heard of them.

Now as ignorant, which really doesn't bother me, that I may seem world wide, I kind of need that to check my "stuff" so I dont' study other countries.

But the other day I was walking around the house going Ba-rainn...Ra-rrrrrain and teasing my husband/giggling. My husband watches things like "Archer" (which I really like, actually) and "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" eh, hit or miss, but I asked what cartoon was Baraiin or Ra-rain. He had no clue.

Anyway, the first channel I flip on tonight, CNN was featuring peaceful demonstrations in Bahrain and some were gunned down in cold blood. The feeling was like Tiananmen square??

This Brother-Hood thingy bad, like it feels like communism. The features of riots, they seems to or will have a common denominator, like a Muslim background or common religion.

So, as a US citizen, you'll be granted viewing of these things and you'll be...oh what's that word, Skeylaw was just talking about it, in movie theaters, sublimal!

Really what it is, is "conditioning"

So you, the viewers, though this muslim group thing holds potential threat, will be conditioned to empathise, like pavlovs dog. You won't really know what it's about, but eventually they'll bring a name to the surface. American...you need to repent...get it?

If you manage to get past the "conditioning" you'll then be criticized for "speaking" or saying it incorrectly, without respect, without finesse or generalizing.

However, if you watch closely, these same special interest groups aren't held accountable for their own actions or dialoge and you'll be prompted to be made guilty for even seeing that. Don't!

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 02/19/11 01:01 AM.

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Burmese, what is that?

The way things work w/me, is I get things and push them out.

They come back, I may or may not push them out, it depends how much else I've got going on. Consultations, worldy concerns, physical stuff like paying bills or moving, etc. You do it to simply to stay sane.

Burmese - I don't have any physical knowlege of this but for the past few nights I've woken from a dream with that word. The only way I know it (physically) is from a scene from Sixth Sense, when some "chickety" wants a Burmese saphire to make her happy and pouts when her fiance is hesitent.

LCP do you know anything? In the dreams it seems to tie in w/gov't or movement or uprising or I just don't know, but if I post it, lol, then maybe it will go away?

I always thought we had a democracy?

My husband told me democracy is code for socialism or comunism.

Tonight he told me what we have, currently, is a republic? Which people confuse with Republican? Huh? He just spewed we are in the throws of losing the reuplic because our gov't is pushing for Democracy???

There's more but it would just waste people's time in reading it and is spinning my head even thinking about it. And this is Sun. Right? Help!


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The military junta ruling Burma since the 1960's has changed the country's name several times. It's now referred to as Myanmar. This is a tiny country in the little corner which connects China, Thailand, Laos, India and Bangladesh. It's predominantly Bhuddist, but governed by a militaristic/socialist government and one of the most impoverished countries in the world.

The leadership there is extremely isolationist. It's very hard to even get in to visit. After a devasting cyclone in 2008 which killed at least 200,000 the government refused to allow aid in for days. My nephew was on one of our Navy ships which responded to assist. They weren't allowed to do much of anything.

Due to its proximity to so many countries and cultures, Myanmar had a very diverse population. From the mid 1800's until 1937, it was a province of British India. In the 1970's, ethnic minorities were persecuted to the point hundreds of thousands fled to Bangladesh, including many, if not most Muslims. For decades the Burmese people have been subjected to forced labor by the military and in 2006 charges for Crimes against Humanity were raised with the International Criminal Court.

In the 1970's and 80's they did have large protests against the government. Thousands were killed in 1988, and another uprising occurred in 2007. A special thanks to Wikipedia tonight:)

I have no idea why the word "Burmese" has been popping up. The only reference I've heard lately is a regional issue with a population explosion of Burmese Pythons pretty much all over FL. They thrive in the Everglades, swamps, and river basins. Removal programs have been active for several years. A little closer to our home, there is concern for them spreading to the Okeefenokee Swamp, which is on the FL/GA border and within 50 miles of us.

Hopefully something in this jumbled mess of information will click for you. I did not know of the numerous protests over the years in the country, and that could be the connection. I certainly hope it's NOT the pythons!



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Wow...you're, just wow! Thank you.

For whatever reason, I do well w/Dick and Jane versions.
Like I could try to read something, but I'd get through one sentence and have to re-read it all over agian and try to connect it to the next sentence.

Just one word stuck out in corelation to Burmese. Socialism? That's it. If they're so isolated I can't see how that's really something that would play in to today? The other thing was:

Learning from, like a past thing? We're new, (this is just feelings) but a lesson? I still don't know.

Last night I thought my husband was on crutches, again, I was sitting up in bed. I haven't slept walked since the 3 angels things in the corner of the house my mom followed me for, and the airplane dream.

The crutches thing, was odd though because in the dream or when I was sitting up, he was puting all of his weight on one crutch, like they did in the war days.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 02/22/11 06:36 AM.

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Glad I could help with a little Burmese info. The correlations you mention could also correlate to each other.
There has never been a large-scale socialistic society that was successful long-term. Long-term for human government isn't really that long, and for this, I'm referring to 100+ years.

Several have turned to isolationism in attempts to prevent collapse. When Bhuddist Monks start protesting, things must be really bad.

Over the past decades in America, Socialism and Communism had nothing but negative connotations. Recently, there have been attempts to "rename" and "rebrand" it. Leaders are using terms such as "Social Justice" and "Social Equality." One can change the description to make it sound more appealing, but it does not change the ideals and tenets of Socialism or Communism. The word "fair" is also often used in these flowery descriptions. If you know someone from Cuba, Russia, China, or any other of the numerous Socialist/Communist countries, ask them about Fairness, Justice and Equality. You probably won't need to ask why they left.

Our Founding Fathers knew history well and took the best government concepts and combined them to form a democratic republic with checks and balances on power. As evidenced in their personal letters, it was truly an experiment. They did not know if it would succeed, but we have made it 200+ years.

What is frightening to me is how our system has been altered over 50-60 years to include more socialistic ideals and programs. We are so very close to having the government involved in, and at least partially, in control of EVERY aspect of our lives. With subsidies, regulations, entitlement programs, the mindset needed for Socialism has been planted.

Webster defines Socialism as a system of ownership/production owned by the society/community rather than individuals, in which all members share in the work and products.

Sounds nice, doesn't it? We all work together and share in the profits. However, there are a few issues.
1. There are NO profits in government. Once government begins to expand, the momentum continues until critical mass is reached and the system implodes. Not that different from an epidemic. Profits from sales and exports of government owned production fuel the expansion. Your piece of the pie might start out nice, but it will eventually shrink, just as it has in Cuba and did in the Soviet Union.
2. Combine this with Isolationism, such as in Myanmar and exactly who are you selling to? It's not surprising they are so impoverished.
3. Would you consistently give 100% at your job, knowing your piece of the pie will not enlarge, but shrink? With little chance of advancement or improvement, workers become despondent and less productive. To sustain production, some governments resort to forced labor, such as Myanmar has.

I think Marx and Engels did not understand some important things about people. Satisfaction is fleeting and must be renewed. Doing the same job, day in, day out, with the same or shrinking reward doesn't cut it for many. Even those who agree with an entitlement based system are not willing to settle, they will want more and more. When people are held down and oppressed, they will at some point rise up and challenge their oppressors.

Humans strive for betterment. We don't accept and "settle" for status quo very well or for very long. If we can't use our innovation and ingenuity through the establishment, it will be done otherwise. Think of how large the Black Market was in the Soviet Union. Both Socialism and Communism are based on the citizenry "settling" and remaining satisfied with their piece of the pie. History provides proof of how short-lived that will be.

There are many in Europe warning American NOT to move further down the road to Socialism. They have been there, done that, and it didn't work. It's not "New" to them, they have already learned.



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For the past 10-15 yrs. with the economy being what it is, we've gone where ever we needed to, to make ends meet. The most enlightening I'd have to say is the welfare system and being on the road with my husband flatbedding (trucking).

The welfare system is broken. It rewards you for not working or if you do, work minimally, make "unclaimed" income (cash) and make babies. Being on the inside watching it all, it's like the land of OZ. Once you're in, follow the yellow brick road through the magical kingdom.

There's a young man, I just made dinner for. My husband and I have been trying to help him get on his feet. He's a hard worker, suports his family, but he's here illegally. He also needs a heart transplant but he doesn't have health insurance. If I hadn't made dinner for him, I wouldn't have known this. However, even though he doesn't have health insurance he's getting the heart transplant. He just needs to go to a different hospital. It's 45 minutes away and in the city. That told me right there that though our gov is telling people, illegal immigrants won't get american benefits, they will and actually do currently.

You mentioned that it feels the gov. is going to have a say in virtually everything about our lives. This is where I believe/feel this Heath Care Reform, thingy is going to do just that. Even without this Obama care, this man will have everything he needs, pre-operation care and post. I thought this is why we needed health care reform and he IS here illegally.

The other thing you mentioned was if you have any friends from Cuba, Soviet Union, other socialist countries, your piece of the pie might start out nice, but it shinks once everyone else is on it. BINGO!

While we were long-hauling/trucking, we hit every truck stop there was in the US and during layovers you'd talk to other drivers. Many told us they were coming to America to get away from their coutry's socialism. Many would speak broken english, but you got the jest of it.

One man said to us that neighbors would turn you in if you were anti-gov. "Rationing, long lines, poor health care not good..." He wanted to be like us.

I told him our gov. wants to be like socialists. He said:

"Then your country has forgotten and doesn't know what it has. We come here to be like you. In my country, doctors cover a bleeding with a woman's napkin."

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That does not surprise me. A dear friend's in-laws were in Cuba. They were among the last ones out through the sponsorship lottery. If you won the lottery, you could leave Cuba and move to your sponsor's country. Their reception in our little area was outstanding and truly heartwarming. But they did have to sacrifice. All of their property was to be confiscated by the government, they could only take what they could carry.

Before leaving they gifted everything they could to family and friends, including the kitchen sink. While they were in Cuba my friend sent monthly care packages with toothpaste, aspirin and anything they might could use to barter.

This all comes back to where we get our information. A few months back, there was a Hollywood movie-maker tauting how great things are in Cuba, based on his government guided tour. I have heard the story of my friend's husband. He fled Cuba with his brother, teenagers in a shotty little boat. For almost 20 years they sent every spare penny back home and finally were able to bring their parents and sister to the US. Both of these are first hand accounts. Which is the most accurate, most representative of conditions for the majority of people in Cuba?


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First hand accounts are the ones I put the most stock in. It's you and the person you're talking to. No second hand conversation.

Remember when I was talking about riots popping all over after Egypt and some how they tie in to here? Since tha'ts happened I've talked to my husband about them.

I remember saying something about MI, MN, Chicago, after your mentioning WI. He said, as you, they are Union states. Officials are actually LEAVING WI so they don't have to vote on something?

He said the Unions have gotten so greedy, states can't keep up with their demands? I didn't know the state paid Union salaries. I thought Unions did that. I'm learning.

So I'm like Unions now can put not only businesses out of business but now states? Then I took it a step further and said, what's to prevent all states from going out of business with Fed. gov. eventually owning them all?

I've got to be misunderstanding this! It doesn't seem like anything I could even imagine and I can imagine a lot.

He also told me the people inducing the riots (he used my word...that part I liked) are people that have little to do really with the issues at hand but encourage them while hiding behind just causes.

*****This part is off the subject*****

The NZ earthquake isn't the one I was talking with you about. It will be at least 1 - 2.5 or 2.7 points higher. The geography doesn't even feel right.

Also, you mentioned still having a modest car. Almost a year ago I truly saw gas prices hitting up around 5.00 a gallon. I don't have a car, but it feels about right, still. Small steps, wise movement! smile


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At this point, union members represent a very small percentage of the workforce nationwide. Many of us have never been a union member and don't know how they work.

With all the large manufacturing businesses which have closed over the last 30 years, the only parts of the economy in which unions could expand was in the service industry and government. SEIU (service workers union) has had quite a bit of news coverage and their president is a frequent visitor to the White House.

I heard this discussed on a commentary show the other night and it makes sense with my previous post about unions. "Grab as much as you can to get your 'friends' elected."

Collective Bargaining is not really bargaining when both sides of the table are on the same side. Since the Teachers Union are primarily involved in the protest in WI they are a good example here. Teachers union membership provides a few things the schools and local governments cannot. One of the most incentivizing is legal representation in the event of a law suit. With our "sue-happy" society, this is an important, necessary benefit, so most, if not all, teachers join. The unions use a large portion of their revenue from monthly/annual dues to support their chosen candidates for school board and other local and state positions. They max out campaign contributions, pay for political ads and "encourage" members to vote for their chosen candidate.

Unions have contracts with the State which address much more than just wages and benefits. Some of these include things such as the work area temperature, amount of sunlight, regulations on missing work, and procedure requirements as long as my arm for reprimanding/firing a member. If the State needs to adjust or change something addressed in the contract, it will involve lawyers, great effort and expense and probably be postponed until the next contract negotiation.

Here's an example: Your local school district could save $1 mil each year by adjusting the thermostats slightly in all buildings, i.e. 78 degrees instead of 75 during warmer months and 72 degrees instead of 75 during colder months. However, if the union contract mandates a work environment of 75 degrees, the school district must re-negotiate, with lawyers, experts, etc. That process would probably cost $1 mil, so why bother.

When it's time for negotiations, the union reps and attorneys are on one side, across the table are the elected officials the unions supported, contributed to, and "encouraged" their members to vote for. For unions, it's basically negotiating with "yourself." It comes down to how much elected officials can let the unions have, while not upsetting the taxpayers too much so they can stay in office.

Some unions set up and manage their own pension and benefit plans. Both the employee and employer pay a certain amount into each. Union dues are used for administrative costs and can be accumulated for assistance, such as during short-term work stoppage for things like maintenance shut-downs.

Government doesn't have maintenance shut-downs and most of their union contracts require the State to set up and manage the pension and benefit plans for union members. The unions don't contribute any funds and this frees up their income for other activities.

I've heard the phrase "kicking the can down the road" many times in the past two weeks. This is something our elected officials have been doing for decades, and that "road" has now come to a dead-end. Many States have amassed so much debt and deficits they cannot continue to make payroll and benefit payments at the current levels, while also providing services mandated in their constitutions. Some States, such as WI, are required by their consitution to have a balanced budget.

The union supported Democratic Senators in WI have fled the state to prevent a vote on the new Governor's budget. Not having a Senate quorum IS shutting the State down.

States, like Congress, cannot be eliminated. But their relevancy can be reduced. If states go bankrupt (I don't if they legally can) no doubt the Federal government will be forced to pick up the slack. Federalism vs. States Rights is an issue which has been debated for over 200 years. We should each read the Constitution, it's not that long. A hefty portion is on what Federal government CANNOT do. Any authority, power or obligation not specifically granted to the Federal government belongs to the States. This is one of those important "checks and balances" necessary for a democratic republic.

If the States go down and the Fed steps in, the balance of power is further shifted and many checks on that power will be minimized or eliminated. Our Founding Fathers are already "rolling in their graves" over the vastly increased powers of the Presidency. If States go down, they might just pop out. Well, one can hope smile



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Thanks for the Earth Quake information. I read some reports on AP and somehow knew this wasn't the one you were sensing. It felt too far away to me.

This was a relatively mild quake, however that area has experienced several over the past 6 months and buildings have been weakened. That part of the world has had more of its share of disasters the past 10 months. Bad things always seem to come in 3's. Hopefully this is the third one.


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There's 2, actually, to me that feel to be hovering around the index I mentioned above. One is in the US or travels up through the US and another country. This other one feels like it's across the waters or islands. The one in the US seems to have something to do w/mountains.

Not that long ago I felt an earthquake would happen along a fault that either isn't known to be active or wasn't known at all, so an earthquake where you wouldn't normally think there to be one.

After the NZ earthquake I looked that up and read it was along an unknown fault. Having said that, though, it's still not the magnitude I was feeling.

Also, thank you for the info! I usually feel uncomfortable asking about political things because I'll usually get a person's selective knowlege, you know that favors their candidate or opinion. The way you do it is exactly what I need.

Also, I wanted to mention a dream I had last night. Normally I don't sleep walk. The past few nights I have been. The TV is rarely on and I don't go anywhere. Those things are important to mention. The dreams are mentioning words I wouldn't use or talk about and I can't even tell you where the indian ocean is without looking it up.

Anyway, I was talking in my sleep and my husband said I said 3 words over and over, "Argentine, Chile, and Hussain." When I spoke to him I said, "They're de-programming them."

Any ideas? Thanks

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 02/24/11 01:49 PM.

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I'll have to do a little "huntin and peckin" on that strange threesome. I've been keeping up on anything I hear concerning Venezula. Hugo Chavez is their "elected" dictator and he's been closing down independent media and gobbling up any industry with a profit for the government. Most disconcerting are his relationships with the President of Iran and leaders in Cuba.

Hussein is an Arabic name and I have no clue as to possible associations with Chile and Argentina. Will post any findings.


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I don't know how Hussein ties in with gudaffi (sp) the Lybia stuff but Hussein seemed to tie in with one of his kids and in the dream I felt like when Theye said, "They're reprogramming them" They meant this gudaffi guy, teaching them a lesson or squeltching the Spirit.

That in itself isn't hard to believe, but the dream, like I said, what was wierd about it was I was living or playing it out physically or sleep walking.

The other thing I think it may, not sure yet, be referring to is this gudaffi guy moving around regions, either gathering them or moving from one land/county/...no continent to another?


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Originally Posted By: Eleise - Clairvoyance
*****This part is off the subject*****

The NZ earthquake isn't the one I was talking with you about. It will be at least 1 - 2.5 or 2.7 points higher. The geography doesn't even feel right.




I'm going to make this particular post a different thread. It's too difficult for me to find otherwise.

With as many things that are constantly in progress, when something comes through, I either have to be looking for it, as in investigate or if it comes through on its own, it's more of an energy that is gaining momentum.

I don't normally investigate or look for earthquakes, but they've been on my mind for about the past 1 1/2 years and I'm trying to connect the "common deominators" coming through.

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 03/01/11 01:49 PM.

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Where thoughts go energy flows !! so the quickest way to bring about disaster is to focus your thinking on disaster. Yes it is important to know enough survival skills to care for yourself in an emergency, and to have a store of non-perishable food and water available at all times, viable seed to plant a garden would be a good thing to include as well as a gun, bullets, axe, knives, scissors, basic garden tools, and other basic tools! NOW! stop and consider the size of the trailer you would need to house these few items and how you will transport it if a major disaster occurs and ther is no electricty or fuel, oh did I mention candles, campstove, fuel, matches, a windup short wave raido, fresh batteries, walkie talkies, foul weather gear and perhaps a tent......well it should be appearant that you would likely have to stay put to have all the supplies you would need to cope with a natural or other disaster on your own. So it makes far better sense to be prepared and learn the skills and have the tools and build a sense of community with your neighbors, and community, as well as the rest of the world so that all will be willing to help at a moments notice if something bad should happen somewhere. Humanity is a giant organism where each cell (person) wants to believe that they are the center of the universe and can be seperate and self sustaining......sadly that is a huge lie that your ego wants you to believe. Everyone has likely herd the quote "No man is an island" well that is the truth!!! humanity needs to operate as a single organism much like bees in a hive or a colony of ants to survive and prosper. We also need to take better care of the host that sustains all of life as we know it, THE EARTH, for if we don't we will have no one to blame but ourselves when it becomes so disheveled and toxic that it can no longer support us humans. If you haven't seen the movie "Avatar" watch it and you will see a message from spirit about what human kind is doing to our home and how we are encouraging its distruction and honestly where we are headed, as well as how life on this beautiful planet was intended to be, and can be if we choose to change how we think about our selves and our home Earth.

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Paula, I agree our thoughts can effect some events, and frequently wish I had the ability to "stop" thinking on the content of my dreams. Despite much effort, that is not the case. Even when dreams are blocked upon waking, there remains a constant nagging, "I had one of 'those' dreams, what was blocked?"

Like you, many of us recognize we are messengers, but have much trouble finding a way to deliver our message to those who need it. For decades I struggled with being shown an event for which there was not one thing I could do to assist those involved in any way. The frustration can be devastating, as well as the Why's. But I also don't believe in coincedences or accidents. It took a while, but finally accepted all things work together in my life.

This answered one of the Why's - Why must I go through the daily mental and physical "side affects" of these dreams? I'm pre-grieving and preparing. I also now have a record of accuracy, with that comes credibility.

For the first time in 40 years, I have two things:
Validation of my dreams from others who are experiencing them - It wasn't a coincedence Caulbearer11 began the topic "Visions of the Near Future." I'm not the only one who needed a nuetral, safe place to compare/contrast, gather and glean, in trying to make sense of information provided. I share with others who have put much thought into this, not to hasten/effect the events, but to find means of mitigation.

That's the 2nd thing, Elleise so graciously provided with this companion topic - I finally have something to do with the information, learning/compiling what is useful now and may become necessary, and sharing with as many as possible. Not dwelling on the event(s), but analyzing with faith I can help someone in some way. When we are generous with anything, time, knowledge, our generousity is compounded and can be far reaching.

This topic has had more than 20,000 views. If just 10 people learn something useful, begin to prepare to provide for themselves, family and friends, and adjust their mindset to a simpler, more conservational life style, my time in learning and posting will have been well spent and rewarded. Yes, I have stressed privacy in preparations and stockpiles, but not for setting up an "island." Islands are impossible to defend without a network/community. We must help each other in every way possible, not just in times of hardship, but each day.

If those 10 readers each share with 10 others and so on, this "crazy" lady down in "Po-dunk" Georgia will have helped effect some positive outcomes for people and our Earth, from some very negative dreams and visions. I'm not being presumptious, it's already happening within my community, my network, with my friends and family. Those I thought would not be receptive to my "message" of learning and preparing have proven me wrong. Several have been feeling "something" and asked about it.

This seems to be a time when we "messengers" have an eager audience. There are gloom/doom mongers who seek to scare, they've been with us forever. But for many of us, the intent is only to share our message and help prepare in some way.

I am so glad you have joined in. We need every point of view and perspective, every approach and idea. There's not a single fix that works for everyone. Like you state, each of us is a cell in the body of humanity and must contribute what we can.


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Gosh, 2 both perfect perspectives in the equation of life. Both are accurate yet neither would be as useful if relied upon solely.

If everyone just thought of themselves or their own preservation, we'd never have unity. However, if we never paid attention to warning signs, we'd be extinct long ago.

Alone, we're not meant to be an island, yet, Humanity isn't to the stage where they can operate as one, a higher frequency organism.

People still have hairs up their tail-pipes about which race, religion, gov., is supreme and are so caught up in their OWN un-balance, they're willing to offend, fight, destroy and kill, just to show the world view that they're right. None are supreme or are "The One" no matter how much they might believe it to be true.

Our species, like the natural kingdom, has an order to it. Instinctive, survival tendencies. We, though, seem to run in cycles. I want to say every 100 yrs. or so. It takes about that long for our destuctive habits to be forgot. However, it isn't genuine. We'll repeate our destructivity and call it something else.

There have always been differences of opinion, but there are cycles where balance is so in need of restoration, we enter a period of destruction before we actually let go of pettiness. We're in that cycle at this time.

It's amaizing how little race or religion comes into play when you're about to plumet to your death hanging off a cliff. Whatever hand, you'll grab it and maybe even develop a life long friendship.

Some of us operate out of that purity and kindness all of the time. These people will work to help mend and heal the broken pieces together after the wars and killings have subsided.

Others are messengers of a different type and recognize civil unrest and manipulation prior to those wars and help to make the suffering as minimul as possible forming networks and aiding community, like a support system or shelter from the storm while the destructive cycle is in play.

Alone, I don't think any of us can prepare for a national disaster with all of the supplies that would be needed. But, we're simply not at the stage where society acts calmly and peacefully when they must go without. They panic, steal and kill and justify it with unpreparedness or blame.

But if you know how to do your part and share those skills, then you can bring that aid along with others who may and in most probablitity won't know where to go or what to do while society once again, works to rebuild what has been lost.


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This is something taken from back in Feb. when I was speaking w/LCP about just "feeling" I'd been having about quakes lately.

Originally Posted By: Eleise - Clairvoyance
There's 2, actually, to me that feel to be hovering around the index I mentioned above. One is in the US or travels up through the US and another country. This other one feels like it's across the waters or islands. The one in the US seems to have something to do w/mountains.

Not that long ago I felt an earthquake would happen along a fault that either isn't known to be active or wasn't known at all, so an earthquake where you wouldn't normally think there to be one.

After the NZ earthquake I looked that up and read it was along an unknown fault. Having said that, though, it's still not the magnitude I was feeling.


8.9 Quake Hits Japan

Now this is closer to the magnitude that was coming through. But also within those feeling were that it goes between 2 lands? So what the two lands are, I'm not positive yet, but they are separated by water.

I've been keeping an eye not searching, but just out for headlines, because one of the other quakes had to do w/mountains and in the US. We just got our internet re-connected from our move to our new home recently so I haven't been on quite alot.

When it was up and running, one of the first headlines had to do w/a quake but it was like 5.9 or something and specifically said there were no Tsunami warnings.

I told my husband "There should be. I feel one comes in." He told me I could look up quakes and tsunami relevence if that'd make me feel better and 5.9 was in general too low. Still I said, "They should give them a warning, like conditions are right...like what we have for tornados."

So the 8.9 that came through awhile ago, but "goes between two lands" That I don't know quite yet. There would be water separating these two lands. So I can't find a big enough map yet to see.

The whole point of this is, if this is the "goes between 2 lands thing, then I feel more the next one is may be more centered in the US but of equal proportion.

I'm only getting "plain states", like little fraction quakes leading up to this CA or CO or Canada (CA)?

Last edited by Eleise - Clairvoyance; 03/11/11 06:46 AM.

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I remember once posting something about a woman who won some type of award as an ivestigative reporter, her courage in presenting controversial issues but being stopped at the border between her country and the country presenting it AND being held, not allowing her to retrieve her award..

I remember one of the responses back then being, "Thank goodness we don't live in times like that in this country where people are free to say and feel what they think."

Do you feel we are more free to feel and say what we think or do you feel there are limitations...keeping you from being brave enough to act on exactly what you do?


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It's been awhile Elleise. The calculator is a good tool. I don't think food shortage is going to happen all at once like some people think though.

I think it's going to be a hike here, an elimination there. More and more regulations.

If you've the means to stretch what you've got do it. Emergencies are in addition to what's coming.

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Jeeze-louise,

You've got that right...

On many levels too. And, there's been a huge move to (what's the word I'm looking for) SQUELCH (eureka!) the nagging nellies, pointing this stuff out. It's negative you see wink

So basically, it's o.k. to talk about recycling, butterflies, trees, flowers, birds, etc. and those are o.k. too, but there are other important factors that should be openly discussed as well.

Regulations yes, hikes, political trade-offs as well, like this country wants kick-backs from this industry, that country will settle for XYZ and yet another country will be promised somethign else. It will all come back on the people and they will be told, "It's for their own good or they're taking something off the shelf because they found too much sodium or something..." It will be more about control though.

Point in tact. Recently, I went to purchase seeds online (just seeds). I noticed at the bottom of a few websites red writing..."FDA regulations..."

Didn't think too much about it at first. I hadn't decided what exactly I wanted for sure and I was still pricing. I grow, dry and preserve my hown herbs. Guess what I needed to send before they could ship it to me?

My driver's license.



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Elleise, I posted on this awhile back. How the heirloom, non-genetically modified seeds would be harder to come by. I'm not certain if that is what you were ordering. Having to provide your Driver's License is a clear indication that regulations and databases are already underway for home gardeners. Use of non-genetically modified seeds has already been litigated out of the commercial farming industry.

Providing a driver's license to buy seeds!!!! Am I being paranoid, or are they already taking names and addresses?

With each passing day, new law and regulation, we ARE being corralled like cattle. When the government deems an ingredient or product is "not good," that industry is squelched into compliance with lobbyists, negatively skewed information, and then regulation and taxation.

It is simply a means of control for us "Cattle." Since we all don't have Harvard degrees, we can't possibly know what's good for our families and ourselves. We are too ignorant for those decisions. Personal responsibility is being replaced with government regulation.

Are we free to do and say what we feel? Most certainly not on many levels. Are heirloom seeds bad for us? No, they are bad for the seed companies and the government. Unlike genetically modified seeds, these plants produce harvestable seeds that will grow new productive plants. This limits the seed companies profit (they are only purchased once) and the governments' revenue on taxes.

Having reproductive seeds in the populace leaves the government with less control over the food supply. That may very well be why you had to provide your driver's license


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Yes, they were/are heirloom seeds.

The kinds that are just basic, if you know what you're doing to make what you'd expect to need.

I'm breaking up my orders. Getting some from here some from there. There's just no reason for a Dr. license. It's seeds and preservation thingies.

Anyway, since the "red" writing-hood (FDA notations at the bottoms of some of these sites) and it's new, meaning I've not seen it in the past, there are still sites that don't have it. I was actually shocked to see it in the first place.

I'm just getting my stuff now from places that don't require a copie of my Dr. licence.

I've noticed Visa vs. MC are having "issues" as well.

But if you need something and can't get it locally, honestly I'd get it now.

The basics or the base maybe you'd need to really get your full garden going...one that is perpetual on a multitude of levels.


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There's so much on the internet and TV about buying things while we still can. When I first started looking into all this a few years back, it was quite hard to believe at the time.

What is the issue with seeds anyway? It takes one look at the big picture to understand that whoever controls the food, controls the people.

I guess "Domestic Tranquility" has a new definition and it's not what our Founding Fathers were writing about.


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