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Originally Posted By: Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd

But my first husband was in the army (helicopter pilot) during Desert Shield - when it was still a military operation, not a war. The goal was to get Quadaffi out of office and give the people a chance at freedom so they could fight back themselves.


Quadaffi? Do you mean Saddam Hussein?

Originally Posted By: Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd
Soldiers do not take killing lightly. It is our politicians (who never go into battle that do.)


Then why do they do it?

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Originally Posted By: Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd

Where the major gaps are; small business owners who cannot afford bi insrance plan and their employess and people who are capable of working but choose not to - so they don't get disability.

The first group I definitely feel badly for because they are working to make a life for themselves. I have a hard time dredging up sympathy for a group of people whose sole aim is to live off the work of others, howeer.


How are you sure their 'sole aim is to live off the work of others'? Maybe some of them just can't get a job.

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I realize there are some people who are out looking and unable to get a job, but there are others who are capable and do not wish to work, but would rather live off of someone else.

My mother was a caterer, I was her office manager - I was the one who did the hiring, and unfortunately at times, the firing. I also had people who just up and quit.

But the ones that got to me were the people who just never showed up for work - no phone call or anything, then would show back up 2 or 3 days later. They did this in order to get me to fire them so they could collect unemployment benefits.

SO I know firsthand there are people out there capable of working that do not.


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Originally Posted By: Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd
I realize there are some people who are out looking and unable to get a job, but there are others who are capable and do not wish to work, but would rather live off of someone else.


I'm sure there are people like that, but there are also people who are genuinely unable to find work, or who cannot afford health insurance who are excluded from the system and unable to obtain decent health care when they are sick.

Originally Posted By: Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd

But the ones that got to me were the people who just never showed up for work - no phone call or anything, then would show back up 2 or 3 days later. They did this in order to get me to fire them so they could collect unemployment benefits.


That's an issue with the level of pay in comparison to the level of benefits. If menial jobs paid more money, or the benefits received were less then there wouldn't be such an impetus for individuals to leave their job. If there were other benefits attached to the job such as training, or good accommodation then there would be more reason for employees to stay. You can't blame a person on the minimum wage with little job security and no career prospects for taking an easier option.



Last edited by big alignment; 10/27/09 05:15 AM.
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On the other hand, a small business only brings IN so much money. In order to stay in business - we can't pay our employees more money than we made!

My Mom eventually went under, and had to give up her dream. I went to work for a medical supply company (until I got married and had a baby - we are very lucky that my husband makes enough for me to stay home with the kids. And I do count myself very lucky!) Mom now does the meals and catering for the church she attends, pretty much by herself. She doesn't have to worry about staffing problems anymore.


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Originally Posted By: Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd
On the other hand, a small business only brings IN so much money. In order to stay in business - we can't pay our employees more money than we made!


No, but if you want loyalty from your employees then you need to offer them security and a decent wage. I understand that some businesses run on tight profit margins and pay employees a minimum wage, but they can't have it both ways.

If you want a happy, loyal workforce then you have to pay them a good wage. That might mean putting up costs for customers but happy employees usually mean good employees which means a higher quality service for customers who won't mind paying a bit extra for this.



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Originally Posted By: big alignment

That's an issue with the level of pay in comparison to the level of benefits. If menial jobs paid more money, or the benefits received were less then there wouldn't be such an impetus for individuals to leave their job. If there were other benefits attached to the job such as training, or good accommodation then there would be more reason for employees to stay. You can't blame a person on the minimum wage with little job security and no career prospects for taking an easier option.



That is called not having a work ethic.

In the 'old days' you may have begun in the mail room but if you wanted to improve yourself and climb the ladder you gave your employer 110%. You learned the ropes and how to be a good employee, showed initiative, and looked for a better job in the company or in a new situation, perhaps one of your own making.


Last edited by Angie; 10/27/09 08:11 PM.
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Pay is not always the driving force. Granted, everyone needs to make enough to live, but it is not everything.

Also, when you take a job, you know what the pay and benefits are. If you decide it is not enough, you look for another but in the meantime you do not stiff your employer.

As an aside, volunteers do not get any pay but their passion for what they do makes them wonderful employees or workers.

Last edited by Angie; 10/27/09 08:18 PM.
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Thank you Angie.

Yes, our employees started out at minimum wage - but if they worked well and showed us they were consistent and reliable - then they would receive a raise after 90 days.

Last edited by Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd; 10/28/09 05:48 PM.

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Originally Posted By: big alignment

No, but if you want loyalty from your employees then you need to offer them security and a decent wage. I understand that some businesses run on tight profit margins and pay employees a minimum wage, but they can't have it both ways.

If you want a happy, loyal workforce then you have to pay them a good wage. That might mean putting up costs for customers but happy employees usually mean good employees which means a higher quality service for customers who won't mind paying a bit extra for this.




You are absolutley right. If you want friendly responsible employees, you need to compensate them for their efforts. However, this should be left up to the free market and the employers. If I work at "Burger Hut" and make $7.50 an hour and am unhappy with the wage, I go elsewhere. Free Market.

When the Federal Government steps in, they control the wages. You must pay your employee $10.oo an hour. $12 an hour. Whatever they decide. (They being Congress, an organization filled mostly with members who have never run a business or who have bankrupted a business.)

At this point, you reach two problems-

One:When I have to pay John James Sally Hector Bill and David another $2 an hour each, I need to get that extra money from somewhere. The politicians will say, "Reach into your own pocket- your rich, you don't need all that money" (One of the reasons they win the title Socialist of the Year.) In reality, I, the employer will either fire John to make room in the budget to keep the rest of the staff, or I will raise the price of my product, thus increasing the cost of living for everyone and increasing the unemployment rate. (You will notice that our national unemployment rate has increased to 10+% and that this number does not reflect the people who have given up finding a job and their benefits ran out. This is either the result of "the failed policies of the past," Or the current policies of this administration pushing higher taxes, increasing minimum wage, and entitlement programs that is running without any checks to its powers.)

Two: If it is good to raise the minimum wage and we can justify that it makes everyone happy, then why don't we increase it more? If everyone gets $7.50, why not pay them $20 an hour. Why not $50? Try to answer that question and you will realize the problem with the minimum wage increase.

-whoisjohngalt

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