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To big alignment: If more Americans were like Michael Moore, we would be socialist just like Europe and so many other countries and you wouldn't have to move here. You could stay whereever you are and have your government hand you whatever you need. America is great because of capitalism and the freedom we have to become whatever we want, IF we want it bad enough. America ingenuity has done more in the last 223 years than the rest of the world has in thousands. What America does not need is a bunch of socialists turning our country upside down, crying and whining about everything and expecting the government to pay for all their needs.

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[quote=Gem Girl] America ingenuity has done more in the last 223 years than the rest of the world has in thousands. [/quote] Yeah! Yeah! What have the Romans ever done for us with their readin, writin and edjukayshun? And those darned frenchies with their art, food and kultchure? And what does it matter that modern capitalist America was built by immigrants from the rest of that darned world...wait.. Hang on! [quote=Gem Girl]What America does not need is a bunch of socialists turning our country upside down, crying and whining about everything and expecting the government to pay for all their needs. [/quote] Yeah! Yeah! Right - those camned whingin' lazy old people and disabled with their whingeing needs and medical requirements. Why should some good ole boy forging an honest life for himmself in an honest old boys used car lot pay for those wingers and slouchers outta his taxes? Where's Ron when ya need him? Go girl - whoop de whoop!

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Definitely agree with you on the point about Rome and basically Europe in general.

We wouldn't have the "Information age" (as this period of time is considered now) without the Age of Discovery, Age of Enlightenment, Industrial revolution, or the Romantic Era in particular. Ingenuity builds upon itself. It has taken the discoveries and inventions of old in order for us to come this far.

As to the other - it is a double edged sword. If people were honest and used the system the way it is meant to be used, then what we already have in place would work great. Unfortunately it is being taken advantage of by people who ARE lazy and dishonest and are looking to use the hard labors of others to make their way in this world.

I know I'm going to get a huge backlash from this - but the ideal of communism is not a bad thing. But the ideal is impossible to achieve because mankind is not perfect. There is always someone looking to themselves number 1 and true communism is about making everyone equal.


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Michelle, our historical society put together a film, "Birthplace of the American Dream." It tells the story of Sir Thomas Dale who realized early on that the community stocks were being abused by some who did not contribute but took their full portion. He changed this by giving people an opportunity to own their own land and produce and earn according to how hard they worked. America is the land of opportunity. This concept began around 1611.

I'm listening to an interesting book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History by Thomas E. Woods, Jr. I highly recommend it.


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I'm with you Michelle and Big alignment with regard to those that laid the ground work for America's accomplishments. I also think that socialism and communism are amazing ideals in their cooperative aspirations - but of course those ideals are not easily achieved in the real world.

Thoreau states in Civil Disobedience that the "best government is no government at all and when mankind is ready that is what we shall have". So since too few are will willing to share with those that have too little government is certainly still necessary.

The absolute negativity that started this thread only serves to further our need of government intervention. Debate and opposing views are what makes life interesting but it must be done with respect. Micheals Moore's movies are viewed as antagonistic by those that are loathe to consider that our system is anything but perfect. Moore always offers solutions to the troubling issues he brings to light and I am thankful that there are people out there with a big enough voice to bring those issues out in such a big way.

Our country is a good one but it is far from perfect - if we all worked together instead of this crazy partisan name calling just think how much better it would all be - for everyone.


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[quote=Spirituality&SFFMoviesEd]If people were honest and used the system the way it is [i]meant[/i] to be used, then what we already have in place would work great. [/quote] But that doesn't mean you have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The system needs to be tweaked to root out the bad onions that have found loopholes in it so they can't take advantage any longer...that doesn't mean the system itself isn't working. And it's not just dishonest people playing the benefit system that are stealing your hard earned resources, you're actually losing a lot more to dodgy businessmen, politicians and even good ole Bob down at the good ole boy used car lot taking the odd cash sale and not declaring it to the taxman.

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Originally Posted By: big alignment
And it's not just dishonest people playing the benefit system that are stealing your hard earned resources, you're actually losing a lot more to dodgy businessmen, politicians and even good ole Bob down at the good ole boy used car lot taking the odd cash sale and not declaring it to the taxman.





Oh, I'm not standing up for them either.

And I am not suggesting we get rid of the medicare/ social seciurity system. There are too many people who genuinely DO need it.

There are many single Moms out there who (for example) start out on Welfare and Food Stamps while putting themselvs through college, but then go on to get a job and actually d come off the system the way they are supposed to. Kudos for those types that use it the way it is meant to be used. The system does help people. We just need to find a better way to ferret out the abusers.


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This wasn't meant to be angry or antagonistic and I don't think it came across as such. Tongue in cheek humor and poking fun is more like it. There's nothing wrong with anyone speaking out about issues, but when Moore becomes a heavy-handed self-promoter and disguises it as being a revolutionary, we need to call him on it. He has the audacity to ask if Jesus was a Capitalist recently in one of his letters and talks about how sinful it is when he is the epitome of a Capitalist. God has blessed him and I salute him for being successful. I'd just ask him not to spit into the wind and tell me it's raining.

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