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I feel like I am in the middle of this issue like some others who have answered. I'm not going to try to stop a woman from making the choice, but I think it is generally the wrong choice.

I've heard people say that you can't be pro-choice and pro-life, but I disagree. I simply believe it is between the person making the choice and their higher power.

I agree especially with Michelle's last post. Education is key. We need to prevent and not by just preaching abstinence but by a complete discussion of birth control.


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I would like to draw the reaction primarily of those who are "pro-choice".
My position is probably going to be obvious after you read my question, but it is irrelevant so instead of jumping on me please explain.
I am trying to understand the moral justification and the reasoning behind the choice of "terminating a pregnancy".
My question is how is terminating a life in the womb is different from terminating a life out of the womb?
If for any reason it is ok to terminate a baby in the womb why can't I terminate it after the birth and to go further if it is ok to make it a choice of convenience, why is it illegal to terminate our elderly or those who's existence is inconvenient for us let's say because they can't take care of themselves.
This is a real question not a provocation and I really would like to see some real reasoning here.
For years I've been asking this same question but everybody just started to attack me and I have never received a real answer.
Please don't tell me about rapes and down syndrome, religious or non-religious beliefs and all that stuff, that's not what I am interested in. I am trying to understand the ideological reasoning behind being "pro choice", so I'd be able to relate to or understand that position better.

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I am very Pro-Choice and will tell you my opinion on it as I can't really speak for others. As far as being "moral", for me that does come into the picture but people get an abortion for other than medical reasons, such as a money reason and circumstances. Yes we can say all day long...keep your legs closed...we all know how much that works especially with young adults (It doesn't work). I don't really believe live begins at conception and honestly neither does the medical field. For me it is a matter of a group of cells (in the womb to a certain stage) vs a group of cells that have developed and have breath (out of the womb). It is a very personal choice and if anyone wants to have an abortion they should have a right to make that decision and should also have a clean environment instead of a back alley. It seems a little to me that most Pro-Life people have this impression that if someone gets an abortion they are a terrible person, when in fact that is not true (remember thou shalt not judge) and unless you have been in someone's shoes, you can't know what it is like to have to be faced with this decision. We are all different. I would like to know if you help in any way with people facing this decision and figured I would give a list since I have been in this situation: Can you guarantee the person that you will stick by their side, pay all the medical expenses, help with food, rent, shoes, clothes, feelings, pay time off work, etc. etc. If a person is single remember they will have to handle this all on their own and speaking as a use to be single Mom of two, I can tell you that even though I never had enough money, I was never able to get any type of aide because they said I made too much money....it's not as easy as you think. Anyway hope this made some sense.

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Dear CrochetQueen. Why do you feel being judged? I have asked a simple question and got the same attack (and self justification at the same time) that I usually get.
At least you gave me a partial answer ("life does not begin at conception") Does that mean that a fetus is dead matter until it begins to breath?
If so, why are people unable to breath on their own with no brainfunctions considered legally alive?
Again no judging just trying to understand.

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Dear windryder, I don't feel judged at all and you did not get any attack from me. I still stand by my opinion and although I am far from a medical person, to my knowledge someone who has no brain function is considered "brain dead" and they are being kept alive by letting a machine breath for them, they are not considered alive they are being kept breathing from a legal standpoint, again that is how I see it. And as long as we are all breathing we will have different views. Abortion has been around since the beginning of life (concoctions to drink or eat were made for those who did not wish to give birth). I personally will never tell a friend or family what they should or shouldn't do, I will however stand by them, whatever decision they make. I do sincerely hope you find the answer you are looking for. Good Luck.

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Why is there a big lecture outside the pro-choice door, yet not the same thing here on the pro-life door? :confused: Anyway, I am pro-life and believe that there are plenty of stores within a one mile radius of most people's home where some form of birth control can be found. I just do not see the need for an abortion simply because it's "inconvenient" at the time. I do agree that in cases of rape or incest, abortion may be a very reasonable option, but using it as a form of birth control is just so wrong on so many levels. Take responsibility before hand to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

Last edited by AutumnBeauty; 01/29/09 04:20 PM.
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I do not know if I am pro-life or pro-choice anymore. I once considered myself "pro-choice" because I believe that everyone has the right to choose for herself. This is a basic human right.

I understand that pro-lifers want to protect the rights of those who cannot claim their rights for themselves. It does seem to me that once a life has begun, no one should be able to take it away. Creating a life is a great privilege and responsibility. If it happens because of a mistake, the living fetus should not be punished because of someone else's error, should it? Having to carry a baby through birth seems a small price to pay for an error when the alternative is the taking away of an entire life.

Here are a few things that happened that are making me lean back toward pro-life:

1. I read someone's post about being an abortion nurse and having to flush fully-formed fetuses down the toilet. Up to 14 a day. Their hearts had been beating until they cut them from the umbilical cord. She wondered how many fetuses are flushed down our septic system across the US on a daily basis.

2. Several people in my life have had abortions. Why? They did not use birth control! One of them was married and got pregnant but the pregnancy happened at an inconvenient time for them. She and her husband wanted more space between their children. Three others were with men they did not intend to marry. One is a teen but the others are women who should know better.

The irony is that two of them oppose abortion in theory, both political and religious. They vote against it all the time.

I am confused. I like the idea of being pro-choice, in theory, but the reality makes me pro-life. For the child's sake. It is a child even if it is in the womb. Another woman I know had a child born extremely premature. It was under one pound. Everyone expected the worst. But he is a full-grown, intelligent adult today who is attending a notable university. He is a former fetus who is grateful for the life he was given.

Pro-choice sounds great in theory but people do not use this freedom in a responsible way. They do not see abortion as the killing of a viable human being which it is.

Some people refuse to believe that the fetus is alive, that it is a human being, and that is their view. I wonder, however, if it just removes the guilt. The bottom line to me is: Everyone has the right to choose what to do with his or her own body. Even if there is a little life inside a womb, the responsibility of its protection and care is in the mother's hands. If the mother decides to terminate its life, it is her choice. It isn't our place to judge or intervene. If the child were viable on its own--outside the mother's body--then we are in the place to protect it. We can't protect the baby while inside the womb without infringing seriously upon the rights of the mother.





Last edited by Lori-Marriage; 01/29/09 05:11 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Angela, Pregnancy Editor
The truth is though that medical and traumatic abortions (rape/incest) make up less than 2% of abortions. The rest is birth control or because of prenatal testing (which is horrible IMO because of the high rate of false positives. You are just as likely killing a perfectly healthy baby as one with Down's, etc).

For those of us who highly value our sons and daughters who were born with Down syndrome, comments like these are quite troubling. The 'termination' rate for pregnancies with a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome is so high, it's obvious that both 'pro-choice' and otherwise 'pro-life' women are making the same choice.

We do not find the most troubling thing about prenatal testing to be the high rate of false positives, but the lack of up-to-date, accurate information and counseling available to women who receive a prenatal diagnosis; the lack of support, inclusion and opportunities for our children after they are born; and community services when they reach adulthood.

Quote:
Funding services for the disabled could deter abortions

Most women consider abortion because they worry about the life they can give the child. We could deter abortions by addressing these fears.

Consider the couple who finds that their baby will be born with Down syndrome, the most common genetic anomaly. Most (more than 80 percent nationally) choose to terminate that pregnancy rather than raise a child with intellectual
disabilities. What can we do to dissuade this choice?


Quote:
What to do with Louie?
February 7th, 2009
Young adult has no state aid, no place to go
People with disabilities who are trying to find whatever help is available ... go on a waiting list to be evaluated. That waiting list currently has 16,000 names on it.

My son is a great asset to our community, as are all other individuals with Down syndrome I know, who were born to women who describe themselves as either pro-choice or pro-life, or both. We appreciate the support of pro-life voters and pro-choice voters who do respect his life.

Thank you.

Pam W
SE of Seattle




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Originally Posted By: AutumnBeauty
Why is there a big lecture outside the pro-choice door, yet not the same thing here on the pro-life door? confused



Mainly because we have not had problem here in the Pro-Life area with people coming in to attack us.

The people in the Pro-Choice area get lambasted by people, called horrible names, etc.

We don't put up those little warning signs until there is a need to.


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Originally Posted By: SNC_Editor_Pam
Originally Posted By: Angela, Pregnancy Editor
The truth is though that medical and traumatic abortions (rape/incest) make up less than 2% of abortions. The rest is birth control or because of prenatal testing (which is horrible IMO because of the high rate of false positives. You are just as likely killing a perfectly healthy baby as one with Down's, etc).

For those of us who highly value our sons and daughters who were born with Down syndrome, comments like these are quite troubling. The 'termination' rate for pregnancies with a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome is so high, it's obvious that both 'pro-choice' and otherwise 'pro-life' women are making the same choice.


That did seem to be a rather off-the-cuff answer. Even when something is "wrong" with our babies, they can do amazing things. Sometimes their disabilities can even be a blessing because it leads them down a road they might not have otherwise traveled.

As parents we all want our kids to be born perfectly healthy and, well, perfect. But that doesn't always happen. But still these children can bring blessings into our lives - completely different blessings from anything that we had dreamed of when we were expecting a "normal" child.

OK- I'll go back to the real topic now....

I hope and pray that more research will go into finding out when brain function does begin. Because that seems to be the basic argument. Once we can prove that a baby can think, then that baby is a person, then there will be no choice but to say that it is murder to have an abortion.

I think scientists and doctors that are against abortion need to put their efforts into 2 major areas:
1. finding out this information
2. finding a safe way to move a fetus from a woman who doea not want a baby to one who does.

These 2 things could virtually end abortions other than those that are caused by medical emergencies.


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
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