BellaOnline Forums Career Nursing Eating Your Young...

Hi, everyone. As nurses, we are often accused of "eating our young". So, I want to hear your stories about nurses who are uncaring towards new grads. I am also interested in the experiences you had as a new nurse...good or bad! Thanks. Bethany Derricott, BSN, RN Nurse-In-Training Bella Online

I've been a nurse for over 10 years. I went back to school,later in life and got by degree. I was lucky enough to be employeed at a hospital with a great support system for new grads. I know that was unusual, compared to some of the stories I have heard. What I have noticed lately, are new grads with a bad attitude. Don't take this the wrong way, self confidence is a good thing, but thinking that you know everything, just out of school, can be dangerous. Nursing school is not the real world and experience goes along way with dealing with extremely ill pts., their family and with doctors. Preceptors need to guide new nurses with patience, and understanding. New nurses need to understand that not everything is taught in school. I happen to love to precept nursing students and new grads. Compassion is not taught in school and that is one thing that is often missing with new nurses. Not because they don't care but because they don't care, but because they don't have the life experiences that older nurses have.

That's an interesting point - in previous decades youngsters were taught to respect their elders but in modern generations many youngsters are taught that elders are no-nothing imbeciles. A lot of the cartoons like the Simpsons and such show adults as being incompetent and the kids being the ones who know everything. Kids are raised to question elders - which on one hand is a good thing but on the other hand can have them not realize how much there is to learn.

How do you find a balance so that new nurses are not petrified of making a mistake, but so they have a healthy awareness of how much they still do not know?

New nurses need to be petrified of making a mistake. Mistakes can be lethal, and that heavy responsibility needs to be in the front of their minds at all times. The worst kind of new nurse (or old nurse, for that matter) is the one who is cocky and over confident.

Many of the things we must do are painful, and we must always remember that as well.

All that being said, the only way a new grad will ever be a good nurse is on-the-job training. Nursing school turns out weak, generic med/surg nurses at best. So new grads need to find the best nurse they can and learn everything they can from them. BUT, and this is a biggy, always be grateful for the time a seasoned nurse spends with you. Some of us do enjoy mentoring a new grad, most of us don't.

There is a good reason for that. We all know what weak nurses new grads are, but the new grad probably doesn't. ALL hospital nurses are overworked. The hospitals have been short staffed for so long they think it's the way things are supposed to be. We have more patients than we can handle. But a good nurse has learned to prioritize and run a little faster and get it all done by end of shift. If you're assigned to mentor a new grad, you probably don't have a lighter assignment, just a ball and chain around your ankle who will slow you down. That's the main reason I always wanted to scream when assigned a new nurse to work with.

You still have the patients, families, doctors, lab, radiology, respiratory, physical therapy, and the secretary riding your butt, AND a ball and chain around your ankle.

That's why we eat our young....everyone is chomping at the bit to eat us.

The interested thing is that,alot of new nurses don't have that fear of making a mistake. That in and of itself is frightening. A large majority of them don't care their own malpractice insurance, trusting that the hospital will cover them. That's sad, because they don't understand that if they get caught in a courtroom situation, they could lose everything. I talk very upfront to new nurses. I encourage them to do at least 1 year on a med/surg floor. These are the nurses that get down and dirty. They learn how to develop and use their "nurse's gut". New nurses need to learn that it's on these units that the backbone of nursing is taught and where you can decide if you want to pick a speciality. Nursing is going through some trying times right now. It will be interesting to see, what happens.

Great point, MariRN! I have noticed lately how some nursing students have poor attitudes. However, I have noticed this in young people overall...not just nursing students. I was speaking with a colleague a few days ago. This particular colleague was one of my nursing instructors (many moons ago). She has almost 30 years of teaching experience. She commented how students today are often disrespectful and is annoyed when students call nursing instructors by their first names. I believe some of this is just generational..."times they are a changin!" I do agree that having a "know-it-all" attitude is very dangerous in nursing. You mentioned having a good support system as a new grad. What resources were available to you? Bethany Derricott, BSN, RN Nurse Editior-In-Training Bella Online

I agree wholeheartedly, Mari.

That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought anything of calling someone by their first name. To me that is normal - it seems stilted to call someone by their last name. I wonder if that is a generational thing?

Helen, interesting perspective. However, I disagree. I have always been a preceptor/mentor to nursing students and new nurses. I have never considered them to be balls and chains around my ankle. It is through teaching that you learn. The difference between nurses and new grads is that as a nurse you have the skills and knowledge to be able to multi-task, they don't. Stressing new grads out with inappropriate and unprofessional behavior does not serve anyone, and causes us to lose nurses. Of course, I am not saying to be a total "softy," but some behaviors by nursing mentors is just outrageously cruel! We were all new nurses at one time and remember how tough it was. I feel we need to keep this in mind when working with new grads. Bethany Derricott, BSN, RN Nurse-In-Training Bella Online

Lisa, it is definitely a generational thing. Most other professions do not do this. Historical, the nursing profession was VERY strict with everything. It was often said that nursing students were literally stripped of their identity when entering nursing school. One NEVER called an instructor or doctor by his/her first name. Now, this has changed. I frequently laugh at myself because I try to be more new age, but I cringe when a student calls me by my first name (especially without my permission). One argument is that it is a sign of respect (ie., respecting those who have gone before you...so to speak). Others seem to use it to maintain power. Who knows! The new generations seem to be much less tolerant of traditional behaviors and it will be interesting to see how the face of nursing shifts over the next few decades. Bethany Derricott, BSN, RN Nurse Editor-In-Training Bella Online

Hi Bethany,

Let me clarify, I was never cruel or inappropriate with a new nurse, and I tried to give them as much help and information as I could. I was only expressing why I didn't like being forced to do it.

I never volunteered for it, the job was always just assigned to me and I don't think that is fair, but how much of hospital nursing is fair? It seemed like the better you were at your job, the more new grads you got assigned to you, whether you liked it or not.

The med/surg unit I worked on got a lot of L.P.N. students who were terrible. Sloppy uniforms, sitting in our break room doing class work instead of delivering patient care, etc. And the instructor was back there with them!!!

I don't know about others, but when I was in school you spent all of your clinical day with the patient. You only took what time was absolutely necessary to check labs and chart, away from your patient. These students wouldn't answer call lights, give baths or feed patients. It is a different world and I don't think all the students who get into nursing school should graduate, but that's the way it seems to be going. So, of course, when you get a new grad assigned to you, you automatically wonder if this was a student like them and is it worth your time trying to train them.

Helen, that's for clarifying. Yes, I do agree. As nurses, we always seem to get forced into everything without our consent.

These days the professionalism is often absent among nursing students. We do still teach this in nursing school, but somehow it gets really lost. I think as nurses and nurse educators we need to raise our standards overall. I have taught in LPN and ADN programs and I think the nursing school admissions criteria is often set too low.

I instruct my students to spend a lot of their clinical time with patients as well. It saddens me that the LPN students you mentioned would ignore patient call lights! I am wondering if they are afraid to check on patients by themselves. This happens a lot with first term students.

Having been a clinical instructor, I have some knowledge in this area. Since the instructor-to-student ratio is often 1:10, it is difficult for the instructor to be with each student all the time. So, many times the students have to sit and wait for the instructor to become available. Also, the instructor is responsible for each student, plus that each students' patient(s). So, 10 students + 10 patients = a lot! I always try to give my students 2 patients each, but that means I have to keep track of all 30. My point is, I would often give my students assignments to work on until I was available because of the down time. I think sometimes staff perceive this as the students not being attentive to patient needs or staff needs.

On the ADN level, the students only have 2 years to develop critical thinking skills and be able to safely care for patients. I do not heavily push the bathing and bedmaking skills with them. I would rather have them creating a case study or working on complex patient care. I do not allow them to do a lot of aid work. I encourage everyone to do at least one bath and one bed. After that, they should have the critical thinking skills to perform these activities going forward. They just don't have the time to spend a great deal of time on aid work. Plus, they need to learn and practice delegation almost immediately. However, I do think that this should be different on LPN level, and perhaps even the BSN level (just because there is more time).

Another thing I have noticed is that patients get really annoyed when nursing students are constantly in the room. I remember when patients loved for students to visit with them. Now, that seems to be changing to also. The face of health care is changing...

Thanks so much for your postings.

I think there is a very big difference between being petrified of making a mistake (which can make you freeze up in a time of crisis and forget things) and having a healthy respect that things can easily go wrong in the medical field.

I was a surgical tech, so my experience was in the OR only, but I thrived in the trauma cases, that was where my talent seemed to lie. I was also quickly trained for the orthopedic and neuro teams because I did learn quickly and I did not crack under pressure (and the neurosurgeon we had loved to test the nerve of new recruits!)

But as far as instructors went, we always called them by their last names. Doctors and our supervisors were also called by their last names, and a few nurses that had been there for so many years that everyone was just kind of used to calling them that! But our surgical "teams" were literally that, we were teams that worked together and pulled call together so that we were completely comfortable working any surgery and knew how each other tended to think. It was made of of 1 RN and two techs, then others might be called on to float if needed.

Michelle, great point..."I think there is a very big difference between being petrified of making a mistake (which can make you freeze up in a time of crisis and forget things) and having a healthy respect that things can easily go wrong in the medical field." As you indicated, teamwork is so important. The things we do to help patients are often critical to their health and well being. As nurses and techs, we need to not only take care of our patients, but also each other! Thanks for your input, Michelle.

It is not uncommon to freeze up during your first code or your first trauma case, that's normal. Fear is a very healthy thing, especially in nursing. The attitude of new nurses is what drives me crazy. When I graduated, I went to work on a really tough med/surg floor. Very little time actually being precepted, 8-12 pts (on a good day). But we came together as a team, we supported each other and learned from each other. I have to honest in that, even through it was hard, I loved it and loved the people I worked with. We had certain doctors which we would speak to in only a professional manner and others who requested that we call them by there first name. The one thing that I did and that I taught new nurses, was that it is inappropiate to call a doctor by his first name in a patient's room. They thought I had 2 heads. They didn't understand the perception of professionalism that they needed to maintain. It's nice as a travel nurse, I don't precept anymore and after 13 weeks, I'm off to something different. I don't know where nursing is headed, and sometimes I don't want to think about it. Nursing schools are changing and I don't know if its for the better.

Hi, MariRN. Thanks for your input. I think you said my point more clearly than I..."But we came together as a team, we supported each other and learned from each other." When some nurses are "eating their young," they are not usually being supportive or kind or even respectful to our new nurses. This behavior, above all else, is damaging to the profession of nursing. As nurse preceptors and educators, we can be kind and supportive, but still tough when necessary. We are always supposed to be a team, "eating our young" is not the behavior of a team player. Again, thanks for your input.

I worry now, maybe I've upset people sometimes by calling them their first name? It seems very normal to me, and I would never mean disrespect. I am almost 40 so I have been out of school for many years, so I haven't had to deal with teachers in a long, long time. The times I'm with my doctor or with my dentist I never have to mention their name ... I suppose I would refer to them as "Doctor xxxx" if I had to. But I only see them every six months - I wonder if it would feel odd if I saw them every day and still called them by a formal title.

I guess in a way it feels to me like always referring to your husband as "Mr. Smith" like they did in the 1800s. But I also understand that traditions exist and perpetuate for a reason. Maybe it's something that non-nurses just don't get a sense for. It's probably a good thing I'm not a nurse. That and I hate needles

It really is all about common sense. If you are dealing with an doctor, sir works very well or doctor so and so. If you introduce yourself and the doctor says, call me whatever then, that is acceptable behavior. I agree that "eating our young" is unacceptable behavior. I have 2 grown kids, I learned along time ago just to ignore attitude. If someone requests or needs my help, they get it. I will even try to gentle coach you if you are open to it. But, if you slam the door in my face, which I have seen new nurses do to other nurses, then I can't help you. I make a point to learn something new each day, even if its from a tech or cna. The point being that I don't know everything but I am willing to learn. I hope that new nurses learn that nursing is a team effort. If you don't work together then we all fail.

Good point, MariRN. As much as seasoned nurses should not "eat their young," new nurses must also be open to receiving assistance and healthy, constructive critism from their nursing "elders." It certainly works both ways! Thanks for your input.

I AM SO SORRY BUT I AM NEW AT THIS. I JUST WROTE AND SUBMITTED A RESPONSE TO THE ARTICLE ON NURSES EATING THEIR YOUNG. I THOUGHT I WAS TYPING UNDER THIS ARTICLE BUT I WAS UNDER THE SCHIP INSURANCE FOR CHILDREN ARTICLE. COULD THIS ERROR BE STRAIGHTENED OUT PLEASE?!!?

I, APPARENTLY FOR ONE, AGREE THAT WE NEED TO TREAT OUR NEW NURSES WITH RESPECT AND DIGNITY. WE SHOULD TRY TO MAKE THEM FINALLY FEEL WELCOME TO THIS THANKLESS PROFESSION. MANY OF US SOON FORGET THE TORTURE WE HAD TO ENDURE JUST TO GET THROUGH NURSING SCHOOL, NOT TO MENTION THE NUMEROUS UNCARING PRECEPTORS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE OUR MENTORS AND HELP US MAKE THE TRANSITION FROM STUDENT TO NURSE. WELL, ALL SOME OF US TOOK FROM THOSE EXPERENCES WAS HOW TO BE UNCARING AND TAKE GREAT PLEASURE IN MAKING NEW NURSES FEEL UNWORTHY AND UNCOMFORTABLE. I WAS ONE OF THOSE NEW GRADS THAT WAS MADE TO FEEL LIKE "MAYBE I SHOULDN'T BE HERE, MAYBE I AM NOT SMART ENOUGH". THEN I THOUGHT... "TO HELL WITH THAT", I PULLED UP MY BIG GIRL PANTIES, WIPED MY TEARS AWAY, AND GOD SENT ME THIS ANGEL FROM HEAVEN OF A NURSE BY THE NAME OF PAT. PAT HAD WITNESSED THE AWFUL TREATMENT I HAD TO ENDURE EACH 12 HOUR SHIFT. SHE STEPPED IN AND TOLD OUR NURSE MANAGER THAT SHE WANTED TO PRECEPT THIS NEW GRAD...THANKS BE TO JESUS. FROM THAT DAY ON EVERYTHING WAS GREAT, ONLY BECAUSE NOW I COULD BE OPEN AND RECEPTIVE TO LEARN, NOT WITHDRAWN AND SCARED OUT OF MY WITS,I HAD RECEIVED ENOUGH OF THAT IN NURSING SCHOOL! PAT WAS NOT SOFT ON ME AND DID NOT MIND LETTING ME KNOW IF I WAS NOT USING CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS, OR WHAT SKILLS I NEEDED TO IMPROVE, OR IF I WAS JUST ACTING LIKE A COMPLETE IDIOT. I WELCOMED HER CRITICISM BECAUSE SHE ALSO LET ME KNOWHERE I EXCELLED AND THERE WERE MANY AREAS. THAT WAS ELEVEN YEARS AGO, AND BECAUSE OF MY FAITH IN GOD , AND THAT WONDERFUL ANGEL OF A NURSE THAT HE SENT ME I HAVE WORKED IN MANY AREAS. MY LATEST HOSPITAL POSITION WAS CLINICAL NURSE IN THE NEONATAL INTENSIVE CARE UNIT. I NOW WORK WITH THE CLEVELAND METROPOLITAN SCHOOL DISTRICT. I ALSO TEACH NURSING THEORY AND CLINICALS. I ONLY HOPE THAT I CAN BE THAT ANGEL OF A NURSE, THAT BLESSING FROM GOD FOR MANY, MANY STUDENT NURSES. [/

Hi Norie, welcome to BellaOnline's forums.

Just one little tip; typing in all caps is what is called "shouting" on forums. It makes it very hard to read what someone has written because the eye has no chance to rest between letters, and it cannot tell where one sentence has stopped and another started.

Now back to the topic...



This reminds me a lot of what happens in both highs school and college, LOL! The Freshmen come into the big, new school and are hazed by the Seniors, and for no other reason than because that is what was done to them and "it is payback time". (You have to hear the voice of a teenage boy in your head drawling that out to properly appreciate it!)

I've never understood that. Wouldn't compassion mean that people would say, "I was treated so horribly. I never want anyone to feel the way I felt." ?

Of course, we don't live in a very compassionate world anymore.

Norie, what a beautiful story! We need more nurses like "Pat". It seems so unnecessary that we treat our fledgling nurses so poorly, when we should really be role modeling caring. Thanks so much for that inspiring story!

I'm not a nurse but when I saw this forum title "eating your young" I just had to peek in to eavesdrop.

I have to say that I've developed such intense respect for nurses. We gained a daughter-in-law in 2001 who was a neo-natal nurse at Long Beach Memorial in California. That hospital sees just a bit of problems with patients--OK, huge amount of drugs, neglect, alcoholic parents, etc. In listening to some of her stories I am amazed. She's now case manager though for Kaiser Bellflower in California in the neonatal department.

Now, our own daughter has graduated nursing school and is a registered nurse since June 2008. She's a pediatric ICU nurse in Las Vegas. Again, that's an area that the stories abound in things that happen.

Both our daughter and daughter-in-law have such compassion for those they take care of. Nikki has always kept pictures on her refrigerator of "her" babies from neonatal. Now, my daughter constantly shares her compassion with me in worrying about the welfare of those she cares for.

Nursing is very underrated and deserves far more respect. In the not so distant future, our daughter is trying to become a teacher in the nursing program.

It is very inspiring that people dedicate their lives to this profession. I think my heart would break after I dealt with abuse victims, especially children ...

One of the things that experienced nurses forget about being a new grad is that they follow the rules to the letter. There is no gray zone for them. The ability to think critically comes with experience, so they have to stay within the limits of what they have been taught. Many seasoned nurses view this as a weakness, rather than recognizing it as a safety mechanism. I had a staff nurse criticize a newer nurse for holding a medication when the heart rate was 59 bpm. The order stated to hold it for any heart rate less than 60 bpm. This is the type of thing where caring and perspective make a big difference in the lesson learned.