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Jewish People need to unite #475001
12/12/08 02:17 AM
12/12/08 02:17 AM
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In the wake of the terrible tragedy and loss of lives at Mumbai, every Jew from atheist to ultra-Orthodox who knows about it had to feel connected.

Anyone interested in the idea of unity, please respond here or visit www.jewish-people-unite.com

Admin at Jewish People Unite
admin.jpu@gmail.com
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Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Admin Jewish People Unite] #476724
12/18/08 10:06 PM
12/18/08 10:06 PM
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It is quite sad that the tragedies are what often bring us together. Your inspiration to do something about is admirable.


Lisa Pinkus

Moms Site
Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Admin Jewish People Unite] #476749
12/18/08 11:08 PM
12/18/08 11:08 PM
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The Neterlands (Province Gelde...
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Dear Admin,

I think this is a very difficult task, because like christians and Muslims Jews
are very devided, due to tradition, religious, cultural, political, philosophical,
social, ethnic and political differances. You have the (normal) Orthodox Judaism, Modern Orthodox Judaism, Reform Judaism (also called liberal or Progressive Judaism), Conservative Judaism (in my country the Netherlands and Europe known as Masorti Judaism), Haredi/Hasidic Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, Jewish Renewal,
Humanistic Judaism and secular Judaism (Jewish socialism rooted the German socialist and zionist Moses Hess (1812 - 1875) and in in the Pre-war Bund or the Labour Zionism of Poale Zion, today in the Israeli Labour Party and the left-wing Meretz-Yachad. A lot of European and American jews are secular jews too, whether they are leftwing, centrist or rightwing (Conservative or libertarian).
In my country I see the differances between the differant Jewish groups and individuals, although the Orthodox and Reform movement cooperate.
Zionist and anti-zionist or critical jews clash or quarrel over Israel, Jewish diaspora
matters and etc. The majority of the religious jews in the Netherlands and Belgium are Orthodox, but the majority of the Jews in the Netherlands are secular, both progressive social-liberal humanists and jews comming from traditional Social-democratic families (in Dutch we call that Red families or red background).
In the same time there are the cultural and ethnic differances between the Ashkenazi Jews from Western-Europe, Central-Europe (Poland, Lithuania), Eastern-Europe (Ukraine and Russia) and North-America (the Blond, Blue eyed Silver jews),
and the Southern-European and North-African (Maghreb) Sephardim, with their latin Ladino language and culture with Spanish and Portuges roots.
Next to these two main groups of Europe, you have the Middle-eastern Mizrachi jews, also called the Arab, Kurd (Mofaz), Persian and Berber jews from Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Egypt and other Arab countries, the African (Ethiopian and South-African Lemba) and Asian jews. In cultural and ethnic sense the Jewish melting pot of Israel is quite complicated, and in the Netherlands I saw a cultural gap between Dutch diaspora jews and Israeli's at parties and celebrations.

But jews in the Netherlands and America agreed with me when I said that Jewish Unity is important in 2003. But you know jews are always in intellectual debates with eachother, and they have the Semitic temperament, often mixed with Slav
and Southern-European elements. In my country you have seperate Ashkenazi and Sephardi shuls, and like other Dutch people jews are politically devided in Left wing and rightwing parties.

Pieter

Links:

Federation of Dutch Zionists
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Last edited by Redhead; 12/18/08 11:10 PM.
Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Redhead] #476760
12/18/08 11:53 PM
12/18/08 11:53 PM
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Intersting documentry about Ashkenazim in Israel,
and the cultural differances or gap between the
Ashkenazi Israeli (Zionist) elite and the Sephardi
and Mizrachi (Arab Jewish) newcommers of the
fourtees and fiftees.

A painful documentry about the discrimination
of non-ashkenazi jews!

(unfortunately mainly in Hebrew with Dutch subtitles
and some English spoken language)

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Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Redhead] #478755
12/25/08 02:09 AM
12/25/08 02:09 AM
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Redhead, that there are Ashkenazic and Sephardic shuls to me is no cause for dismay. There are authentic differences in nuance. There is still much room for common ground though.
Enjoy Chanuka!

Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Fayge] #480238
12/31/08 06:42 AM
12/31/08 06:42 AM
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Unity does not necessitate shared traditions or beliefs. Unity can entail harmony or agreement between people or groups.

Coming together on the foundation of unity - and not trying to persuade someone else to see things as you do - with the intention of breaking down ignorance and becoming more educated - can only enhance relationships between Jews.

The historical evolution of our differences is almost as interesting as our faith's traditions.

It is a paradox... .we bicker amongst each other because each of us must believe he or she is "right" in his or her practice. If we do not believe we are "right", then we are liable to make changes. At the same time, we must find a way to accept that other people's definition of right differs from our own and we need not make them wrong due to defensiveness, lack of confidence, or our need to have others follow the 'right' path. We, also, as Jews are on a constant path of growth and - so - our definition of "right" today may be different in days, weeks or years from now... and that's ok too.

I still like the premise of coming together in unity - despite differences in culture, practice and belief.


Lisa Pinkus

Moms Site
Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Lisa - Moms] #480273
12/31/08 10:08 AM
12/31/08 10:08 AM
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amen lisa


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Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Lady J] #480941
01/02/09 01:27 PM
01/02/09 01:27 PM
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Lisa,

I agree with you, but keep my defenition of the things I wrote here before.
Jews feel united, because of their faith, culture, bond, solidarity, a shared
past, and the Mitswah to love your fellow jew. That's very good, right,
ethical and moralisticly right.

But in the same time many jews live in goy environments, are far away
from a minyan which is required to arrange or attend a Shul service
and segregated from eachother in seperate communities.

A lot of them become christian, because the mixed marriages of Protestants
and Jews in the USA or leave their Judaism behind them, because they
became secular Americans or Europeans without an interest in Judaism
or Israel.

From the other side in the Netherlands and Poland you have young Dutch
and Polish people who found out about their jewish past, got interested,
attended Shul and started Hebrew or Judaic studies (autodidact and
in organised didactical form).

I speak from an European perspective ofcourse, because the Jewish
communities in the USA are large, well organised, alive and kicking
and florishing like the Protestant, Catholic and Evangelical communities.
I witnessed it when I visited New York in june 2008, when I stayed in
the Upper West Side of Manhattan and saw a lot of shul goers on
saturday mornings, and jews being a noral view as part of the pedestrans
on the street. Here in Europe few jews were left due to the Holocaust,]
and therefor you do not see them.

In South-Africa, Cape Town where my sister lives, the Jewish communities
are also alive and kicking, with shuls, community centres, kosher departments
in supermarkets, bagel luch rooms, jewish butchers, Judaica shops,
and Jewish neighbourhoods. In my country only Amsteram South (Buitenveldert)
has a significant Jewish minority, with a lot of Orthodox and liberal jews.

In my city Arnhem, you have an Orthodox shul too.

What I wanted to say is that there are a lof of differances between the
Diaspora communities in differant countries.
American jews are well organised, a political force, economical succesful,
have their media, culture, social networks and positive influence on the
society they live in.

In the Netherlands and other countries jews are a tiny minority in
an ocean of goyim, christians, atheists and muslims. Dutch jews are sometimes invisible, because they look like Dutch, dress like the Dutch and are very Dutch.
They are very active in politics, the legal system, medical professions,
culture and literature, business and education.
They have a positive image here and anti-semitism is not accepted
here, but the situation in the Middle east, muslim immgrants,
hooliganism and other phenomenons cause some problems.

Although the Dutch jews are devided on the Israel-Palestine issue, political
and cultural and religious matters they feel united in being Jewish,
in a shared past in a centuries old presence here, in what the holocaust
has brought upon them, and the right of Israel to exist.

Pieter


Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Redhead] #481540
01/04/09 02:21 AM
01/04/09 02:21 AM
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When we speak about Jewish unity we have to understand that it is something beyond individual differences. For clarity, please listen to Rabbi Wachsman's audio which I posted on Rabbi Wachsman on Jewish Unity http://www.jewish-people-unite.com/judaism_aboutus.html

Re: Jewish People need to unite [Re: Admin Jewish People Unite] #481563
01/04/09 03:19 AM
01/04/09 03:19 AM
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Pieter... You raise some wonderful points. It is all a matter of perspective. We only know the shoes that we stand in. I would have to say that my experience in the US is different than what you observed while visiting New York. I grew up in Chicago where it was probably similar to NY, but I now live in Arizona where Jews are very spread out and hardly united. We have high rates of mixed marriages and though there may be a fairly strong population of Jewish people (though still a minority), there is a very small percentage who are actually associated with synagogues.

It is quite amazing - worldwide - what the Jewish people have contributed to their communities, to the world of medicine, to technological advancement, etc... and - yet - it amazes me that the Jews are still thought to "own the world with their money" and to be conniving and dishonest people.

The challenge G-d has given us is quite perplexing.
Is your thought, Pieter, that Jewish unity is an impossibility? Is that what your ultimate thought is behind your words? Do you feel pessimistic about the situation or optimistic? Or - as I do - somewhere in between?



Lisa Pinkus

Moms Site
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