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#469055 11/17/08 11:44 AM
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I was very surprised by the decision for California to roll back on the gay marriage issue of all places.
I have many gay friends but the whole thing with, I think America in general is the fact that this nation was built on christian principles.
Meaning God created Adam and Eve to be as one and to bring forth many generations.
Even though I support my friends, I just can't fathom supporting the issue. I am fully supportive of people loving each other, but marriage?
I'm at least content to know that where I live, plenty of amendments are in place with the state constitution to never allow it. It's banned here. As I expressed, I have no problem with people wanting to love each other, but this whole idea opens the door to other perverse ideas and that is not good. I know that many of you will not agree and that's your opinion.
It just shows the general consensus of what has really happened to this country. It's sad all over.

Last edited by Anne, Current Events; 03/10/11 11:58 AM.
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bahrain #470019 11/20/08 06:44 PM
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I wish there was some common ground on this issue between everyone. I guess you said it well, Kay. You support loving one's partner. I hope that is at least a common thread between all on different side of this divisive issue. smile

I am also surprised at California. It's always been so progressive.

bahrain #470033 11/20/08 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: bahrain
As I expressed, I have no problem with people wanting to love each other, but this whole idea opens the door to other perverse ideas and that is not good. I know that many of you will not agree and that's your opinion.
It just shows the general consensus of what has really happened to this country. It's sad all over.


I agree that we are all entitled to our feelings, or opinions about gay marriage, and I respect your feelings. My question is this - you used the word "perverse." What do you mean by "perverse?"

Shay

bahrain #470177 11/21/08 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: bahrain
I think America in general is the fact that this nation was built on christian principles. Meaning God created Adam and Eve to be as one and to bring forth many generations. Even though I support my friends, I just can't fathom supporting the issue. I am fully supportive of people loving each other, but marriage? I'm at least content to know that where I live, plenty of amendments are in place with the state constitution to never allow it. It's banned here. As I expressed, I have no problem with people wanting to love each other, but this whole idea opens the door to other perverse ideas and that is not good. I know that many of you will not agree and that's your opinion. It just shows the general consensus of what has really happened to this country. It's sad all over.


This country was actually founded on the basis of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. The Pilgrims came here to be free to practice their religion, then promptly decided that no one else should have that privilege. Religious arguments against gay marriage are completely irrelevant considering that we are supposed to have a separation of church and state.

I think we should do what France does: everyone has to have a civil marriage, then if they want, they can have a church one. The state creates the civil contract, the church the spiritual one.

I think it's reprehensible that we would celebrate that we, in whatever state, (Mine is among them) did the most un-American thing possible and created amendments to our constitutions expressly NOT giving basic civil rights to its citizens.

Why does it matter to you if I marry a woman? My religious beliefs do not hold that it's wrong and, yes, I'm a Christian. No one is trying to force churches who do not want LGBT people to be full citizens of this country to marry LGBT people.

Interesting ... this country wants to deny me the rights that heterosexual people have but I am not being taxed at a lower rate because I don't get those rights and those potential benefits.


Barbara Sharpe

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I think that one of the things that makes it irreprehensible is, ok for one example. In California, the courts will soon be hearing arguments against the proposition that voters passed banning gay marriage. Their claim is that the voters of California violated the civil rights of a vulnerable minority.

What about the voters civil rights? The general public that is not in this supposed minority has had their civil rights violated also because of the gay rights movement has been trying to push this down the throats of Americans for a long time now.

In America, you have rights as long as you don't infringe upon others' rights. There is no real separation of church and state and that has nothing to do with this argument.

If they state that the voters had no right to vote on this, then what rights do we have? Do we have to consistently cave in to this movement all the time?
No. We as Americans are allowed to have our opinions and this is a very serious moral issue for this country.
It's not just some little thing in context to civil unions.

You act as if you have no rights. And seeing as how alot of votes changed many things in many states in regards to banning gay marriage, I am glad for it.
At least America finally recognizes that this is a large scale potential problem that if allowed would also open our doors to other things such as a fight to have polygamy recognized, etc.
Do you think this would not happen. Marriage is a sacred foundation between a man and a woman. This is not ancient Rome and Greece.

Allow us to have our opinions. If we disagree with your lifestyle, then we have that right. Just as they feel in California, that the voters had no right to vote NO.

At least my friends that are gay know my opinions and they do respect them. I like them for who they are but they don't shove their ways on me.
It saddens me that you feel you have no civil rights, because you are very wrong in that aspect.
And in the bible, it does say that man should not lie with man and woman should not lie with woman.
That is a fact........

bahrain #470244 11/21/08 04:58 PM
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LEVITICUS 18:22
LEVITICUS 18:29

You say you are Christian, so you should know these very well.

bahrain #470250 11/21/08 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: bahrain
I think that one of the things that makes it irreprehensible is, ok for one example. In California, the courts will soon be hearing arguments against the proposition that voters passed banning gay marriage. Their claim is that the voters of California violated the civil rights of a vulnerable minority.

What about the voters civil rights? The general public that is not in this supposed minority has had their civil rights violated also because of the gay rights movement has been trying to push this down the throats of Americans for a long time now.

In America, you have rights as long as you don't infringe upon others' rights. There is no real separation of church and state and that has nothing to do with this argument.

If they state that the voters had no right to vote on this, then what rights do we have? Do we have to consistently cave in to this movement all the time?
No. We as Americans are allowed to have our opinions and this is a very serious moral issue for this country.
It's not just some little thing in context to civil unions.

You act as if you have no rights. And seeing as how alot of votes changed many things in many states in regards to banning gay marriage, I am glad for it.
At least America finally recognizes that this is a large scale potential problem that if allowed would also open our doors to other things such as a fight to have polygamy recognized, etc.
Do you think this would not happen. Marriage is a sacred foundation between a man and a woman. This is not ancient Rome and Greece.

Allow us to have our opinions. If we disagree with your lifestyle, then we have that right. Just as they feel in California, that the voters had no right to vote NO.

At least my friends that are gay know my opinions and they do respect them. I like them for who they are but they don't shove their ways on me.
It saddens me that you feel you have no civil rights, because you are very wrong in that aspect.
And in the bible, it does say that man should not lie with man and woman should not lie with woman.
That is a fact........


Bahrain, you are of course entitled to your opinions as are all Americans.

You say that we in the gay and lesbian community are wrong to feel that we have no civil rights. I don't feel as though I have NO civil rights but it is pretty clear that my civil rights are much more limited than those of my heterosexual counterparts. Yes, I technically have access to all of the same benefits of marriage as you do, but only if I pretend to be something I am not by marrying someone of the opposite sex.

All this nonsense about defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman implies that the most important feature of a marriage is not the love shared between two people but rather the gender of those people. It is a blatant attempt to deliberately exclude an entire community of minorities from accessing the personal, legal, and social benefits of civil marriage that should ideally be available to ALL Americans rather than to just the heterosexual ones.

You also said: "In America, you have rights as long as you don't infringe upon others' rights. There is no real separation of church and state and that has nothing to do with this argument."

You are right about the first statement and very wrong about the second. You are correct in noting that no one should be able to infringe upon the rights of others and yet, you seem to support legislation that does just that. Though I agree with you that separation of church and state is more of a theory than it is a practice in this country, it is what our forefathers insightfully intended and with good reason. Also, it has everything to do with this argument because those who oppose gay marriage and gay relationships in general usually do so based on religious principles. Since our constitution allegedly provides us with freedom of religion, there is no reason why religious principles should be used as the basis for our laws. The bible does in fact speak against homosexuality, I do not dispute that. However, you should keep in mind that while the bible may have strong meaning for you personally and others like you, there are those of us who don't share those sentiments.

Lastly, since you got to vote on my marriage, does that mean that I am also entitled to vote on yours or is that just another right reserved only for heterosexuals?

The election in this regard was disheartening but I still have faith that love and tolerance will eventually prevail. I know that legally recognized or not, I recently married the love of my life and no matter how many times people vote on our love, no law on this planet will ever be able to take that away from us.

k2y #470271 11/21/08 06:24 PM
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I understand some of what you are saying, but the civil rights issue is nonexistent here because you can still have the same benefits as heterosexuals. Most of this argument is about getting legal benefits.
If you have a job and you have access to good healthcare, etc, then that's all you need. You don't need a marriage to get that.
Love is fine but I have my beliefs and you have yours. I don't believe that being gay is a lifestyle because it's not. That's like saying being gay is a culture. It's not.

It's an act. It's a sexual addiction. Not a lifestyle and I don't care how many people in the world argue this. That's a fact.
You feel you are in love because you are addicted to the way it feels. that's not a lifestyle.
As for the vote, what I'm trying to get across is that the voters voted for the ban. What right does the gay movement have to say that the voters should've had no say and take it to court to anul the propositon. The majority has spoken. Let it go.


The gay movement keeps violating our rights by saying we have no rights to our opinions and to our freedom to vote on measures we choose to vote on.

To me, this movement is just like the hippies. Free love.
and it will be squashed just like they were.

I think it's totally irresponsible and immoral to be pushing this issue on the American public.
As I said, my gay friends even understand this and they don't push their attitudes and their ways on me or others.

My one gay friend describes what he does as a sexual fetish. He even agrees that being gay is not a lifestyle.

You can argue it all you want, maybe even start your own colony.
But America has spoken in several states this November and said they don't want it.
That's what counts.

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Quote:
I think we should do what France does: everyone has to have a civil marriage, then if they want, they can have a church one. The state creates the civil contract, the church the spiritual one.


I like this a whole lot. My DH and I were talking about how this would solve a lot of issues.

Jilly #470329 11/21/08 08:24 PM
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Two things worth noting no matter how you feel about gay marriage:

Prop 8 voted to take away rights ALREADY granted to American Citizens. This is something everyone should be concerned about, no matter who you are or where you stand.

Other thing - Sham marriages get legal rights. As in, people married for a green card or to get health benefits, but not for actual love. This is less the spirit of marriage than what gender someone is, if it's loveless, and simply a union of convenience. I assume we can all agree on this point?

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