BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Philosophy Do You Believe in Evil?

Do you believe in evil? Does evil really exist? What's YOUR definition of evil?
You are invited to share your thoughts on this powerful force that causes destruction of many lives.

There is evil, there is good, there is love, hate, black, white, fear, contentment, and all sorts of duality. That is just what it is, duality. Some say that there has got to be such polarity as in the yin and the yang. Why ? Who makes up these rules? Some say that the devil is evil. I do not know of a more evil being than that that is within me or for that matter all the rest of us when enough buttons are pushed. Some could say that I am good. I could say that about myself but that does not mean that anyone else shares my belief. There is what there is. I love the old movie Grapes of Wrath with John Caradine and Henry Fonda. The ex preacher Casey said ," What some folks does is nice and what others does is not so nice and that's all a feller's got a right to say. I do not know whether he ( the man they were putting in the ground) was good or bad, it's just what people does." Some say that a particular man is super intelligent and that other one is really dumb. By who's standard do they speak? Evil is what each individual will allow to be visualized. The same with good. It is perceptions. I think we need to just BE.

I believe in evil! It most certainly exists. I dated evil. His evil disposition destroyed the relationship, and was making me wicked. Once I realized that he was evil, and I removed myself from his control, I became myself again...happy and gracious.

Wow !! He must have really been a piece of work !!!!!! I am glad that you are now away from him and happy !!!!!

I think to answer the first two questions -- do you believe in evil, and does evil really exist (and if you believe in it, I can't imagine how you could not believe it really exists, whether or not that is true!), you have to answer the third -- define evil. Kind of like, "Do you believe in truffala trees?" If you don't really know what a truffala tree is, how could you know whether or not one might exist.

Anyway, I think at least one aspect of evil is the intentional hurting of another (physically, mentally, whatever) for the pleasure of causing them that pain. (I do not include more animal killings for food -- that isn't with intent of causing suffering.) And, since there seem to be people that do that, by that definition, evil seems to exist.

A piece of work alright:

mean-spirited actions
passive agressive behavior
malicious disregard for my feelings
intentional pre-meditated punishing

He was an ugly heartless man.

WHAT WAS I THINKING?

Yes, there is real evil in the world. Have any of you ever know anyone specific who never has a conscious. I did. Pretty scary.
They had no care whatsoever for any of their actions and never apologized when they did wrong because they felt that they were never in the wrong no matter what they did.

sorry meant conscience.

Yes, that is especially true of children who have been abused. But, as any grown person who has gone through therapy (successfully ) can tell you, it is far easier to understand and find forgiveness for a parent whom they have come to see is ignorant, as opposed to one who caused intentional harm. When you are a child, you have no power; no choice - but once you are grown, you can begin again and choose to become healthy and whole. This means shifting your choices from attachment to abusive people, to people who are healthy and whole. Getting stuck on "blame" or "victim" tapes can only keep you from growing, emotionally and spiritually.

But in either situation, it us up to the harmed person to create and nurture their own healing process, and become who they were always meant to be. I love the term "making lemons out of lemonade." With insight and determination, all wounds can become great gifts.

Shay (student of the Tao)

I definitely believe in Evil, with a big "E" - I believe Satan is a real (person isn't the right word) just like God is.

And then I also believe in evil with a little "e" - that is within mankind's doing.

That kind of evil is our concious or deliberate choice to not do good.

Cara you mentioned pain in your article. I think there is also fear, jealousy, and selfishness.

There are a few humans that are in the realm of Evil with a big "E" that I can think of - Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Adolf Hitler, etc. People that have turned their backs on other humans to such an extent that they have ceased to BE human themelves.

Hi Shay,

Lemonade is always good.
Life throws us curve balls sometimes. You are right. It's up to the individual to overcome his or her wounds, and turn them into great gifts of life.

Cara

Michelle,
Thank you for pointing out fear, jealousy, and selfishness. I think fear is the source of all evil (little "e"s). It's interesting that you use big "E" and little "e" to distinguish the degree of evil. I think of the big "E" as away from God, and that was what I meant by ignorance in my article. I believe that all little "e"s stem from the energy of the big "E" because we are all connected in the Universal consciousness.

Cara

When man saw something good that he did not understand or for which he had no words, he called it "God". When man saw something bad that he did not understand or for which he had no words, he called it 'Evil'. These psychologically loaded terms have been used by many powerful people to manipulate The People and we need to avoid using such overarching terms. If one looks behind so-called 'God', one will discover the true, more specific basis for the term, ie gratitude, nurture, generosity, kindness. If one looks behind and beyond so-called 'Evil', one will find the underlying basis for the term, ie hate, greed, stupidity, ignorance, violence, etc. God/good, Evil/Devil. These uber-superlatives should go away from our common language and the more specific words be used which will always enable people to get at the true, underlying reasons for events.
Many (if not all) Native American languages had no words for 'us' or 'them'. And the names of their tribes translated to 'The People'. They realized that all People just ARE and words that separate People, one from the other, are negative as well as incorrect. We are NOT separate from each other and we need simply to return to a time when all people were Human Beings, connected and reliant on each other for survival. The trappings around us have changed, but our interconnectedness has not.
The day I saw George W. Bush state emphatically that "Evil is real", I knew that he was wrong and that it was just one more attempt to separate us from our brothers and sisters around the world. If one will look to common folks around the world, we all want the same things; safety, health, happiness and it is only those in powerful positions around the world who separate us from other common folks, an alliance with which would prove to be too powerful to be overcome by The Powerful Ones. What we see portrayed in the media are ideas which will frighten and separate us. If you pay close attention, you could quickly come to the conclusion that those in power only rule because we allow them to. As Native American tribes suggested and our Founding Fathers stated, all power comes from We The People. Evil is nothing more than a bugaboo created to frighten people into obeying. Things and events just ARE and it is only man who proscribes events with mystical origins.
If a cat kills a mouse to eat, is it Evil? If a man kills a steer to eat, is it Evil? If people harm others from a place of unconsciousness or ignorance, is that Evil? If people plan and scheme to harm from a place of greed or fear, is that Evil? I don't believe so.
I asked this same question of several friends only last week and the responses were varied. Emphatic at first, most said that, yes, Evil was real. When I suggested to them the ideas above, they all said that they would have to give the matter further thought. None of them hung tightly onto the idea that Evil, this formless entity or force, was actually truly real, but more likely is an invention of Men and not a basic fact of nature, or even spirituality.
It is a thought-provoking idea that drove me to google-search the question, whereupon I found this forum. It is good to know your are all here. I'll be back...

I do agree, marsreb. "Evil" is a manufactured label place on things that are deemed either "unlikable" or "unacceptable." And they vary between individuals and cultures. If there were no such words as "good" and "evil" we could each simply dismiss what we don't find "likable," choose to disassociate ourselves from it, and move along toward what we find "likable." It would also be way easier to identify actions or words coming from the insane and leave them alone, would it not?

Shay

I don't know.

I just keep seeing Charles Manson. Obviously insane, but I think he qualified as truly Evil, too.

I don't see fire and brimstone behind everything that goes wrong in this world, there are plenty of mistakes and accidents, but I do think there is some Evil.

I guess this is just one of those areas that I can't really prove, that I just feel - if that makes sense?

It is the flip side of my faith I suppose is the best way to phrase it.

I understand your take, Michelle.

But for me, Charles Manson was (is) simply insane. His followers were on heavy drugs, which altered their sense of reality, rendering them insane as well (perhaps they were insane before the drugs) - they believed that he was "good." "Evil" is just a word we are conditioned to attach to things that make no sense to us, when juxtaposed to "good." If it isn't lovely ("Good") it must be "Evil" ("Devil.") The Manson group felt they were doing "good" by destroying "evil" (i.e. society was evil, and Sharon Tate exemplified "evil.") I just noticed something - god is just one letter away from good and evil is just one letter away from devil...interesting.

I think of it this way. If there is a wild storm, and lightning strikes a child then vultures and worms come and eat what is left, are the lighting and vultures evil? Or is it just a part of the ways of nature? Is it horror, or is it the foundation of all life?

Human beings have developed a fabricated understanding that they are apart from nature; that the laws of nature are something that have nothing to do with humanity. That "God" is separate from nature and "the way." It is an artificial belief that humans have a separate system - a belief concocted by men who craved power, and manipulated old scrolls written before they were born, (which probably contained some actual wisdom) which were then kept from common people, so that they could not decide for themselves what they may have meant. There is nothing but a thin veil of belief that keeps it alive - if they believe it, they "feel" it - it is called "faith." Beyond that, there just "is." There is darkness and there is light, and any mixture of the in-between, that is all.

Shay

I believe that there is evil in the world but I dont believe the devil can make you do anything or that satin has any power to control people. I think there are just people who have so little respect for others or themselves that they do not care who they hurt or how they do it as long as they get what they want. I have met people who have no conscience and I have met people that went beyond that into soulless or no spirit at all! and for whatever reasons, I believe, they choose to become what they are no one made them that way.
I also dont think evil has a religous cornermarket or the lack of evil either.. it is an open door anyone can walk through with no discrimination!

I think in Mansons case he comes from a long line of evil insane people but which came first the choice to do or be evil or the insanity? If you are raised in a family like that and that is all you ever know as normal... I think this would be a prime case of the sins of the father are visited upon the sons type of thing but the Sons never the less had a choice to be different if they had wanted or tried to be. there had to be people who tryied to help him along the way that he just turned away and that was his choice.

You bring up a very interesting question, MysticSophia. Do people have a choice not to be mentally ill? Is the potential for being a sociopath genetic, and is perhaps triggered by abuse? In his early years, Charles Manson felt things deeply. He loved his mother unfailingly, and defended her honor no matter what she did. And she did some pretty dicey things. Her family had some characters in it that were equally mentally "off." It wasn't until his mother abandoned him that something died inside of Charles. He had a breakdown, and instead of help, he got caught up in more abuse, in the system. With every episode of abuse, he became more acclimated to being a part of the underbelly of society. Was "normal" ever a choice for Manson, or was he born with the inclination for mental illness, triggered by horror? Is this "evil" or just a means of experiencing the darker side of life - something nobody with a clean bill of mental health would want to do? Is Manson different from the boys who gun down their own schools and malls? (Only he never gunned anyone down...)

I read as much as I could of this excerpt of his book "Manson in His own words" before I felt the sick heartbreak of watching a dog being tortured, and realized I'd seen enough.

After reading it, what do you think? Is sociopathic mental illness "evil?" Did he ever have a real chance to be "good?"

Shay

im of the belief that sometimes sociopathic mental illness can be demonic oppression or possession. this comes from a pervasive foundation in the belief in heaven and hell.

I was going to pick out which part of this I wanted to comment on - but I really agree with the whole thing. You said it perfectly Sophia!

There are some people who through illness cannot control what they are doing, but there are many, many people in this world that just don't care about anyone other than themselves. The selfishness and apathy are what make them evil.

I believe that we existed as spirits before we were born with physical bodies. We were allowed to choose our life situations, for the most part, based on the lessons we wanted to learn (or relearn).

As for mental illness, we chose that, too. However, there are cases of demonic possession as well. Mental illness may be caused by this but may not be.

Evil exists just as surely as Goodness exists. There are opposites of all things. You choose what to experience. It might not seem that way for people in negative situations, but they chose before they were born.

I read a book about callings and destiny in life and there was a chapter on "The Bad Seed." Fascinating. Some people are born to a destined outcome. But God always gives us free will to choose: before we come down and while we are here...and even after we leave (through repentance).

I wish I remembered what the title of that book is. I gave it to someone.

I preer to believe that "evil" and "good" are just cultural frames of "destruction" and "creation". The problem with this is that it leads to cultures framing desctruction as something that is always bad. While that may be the case sometimes, other times destruction is good or even necessary. So by framing these ideas as "evil" or "good", we limit our existence. On the other hand, if we can take a step back from what we want to label "evil" and ask the questions: How is this destructive? and What does this destruction do? We can gain a deeper insight into what is really going on.

For instance, as a therapist, I work with chronically mentall ill individuals and, while their illness is often destructive, sometimes that destruction can be breaking down negative things. One adolescent client recently started cutting due to their mental illness and this was a huge shock to their family. While this was destructive or could even be labeled "evil" depending upon the cultural/spiritual frame we want to place on it, it also brought the family to a place where they began recognizing the dysfunctional family patterns that caused that client anxiety and resulted in the cutting. Because of this, they were able to work on changing their habits to healthier habits. Something destructive actually broke down unhealthy barriers and made way for new creation.

That's just my opinion on it, though.

For sure it's real......God created it. It's right in the bible about his creating it.

Everything God creates serves a purpose, even EVIL.

Native Americans portray in their myths the good and evil in life:

A lot of the animals in the stories are referred to as 'tricksters'. Although the trickster can be rebellious, disorderly, cunning, sneaky, witty, curious and sly, he is always, first and foremost, a survivor. The trickster will not stop short of trickery, thievery and deception to get what he wants for himself, however, the ultimate goal is usually to assist the humans by making life better for them. By doing something wrong to gain something good does not seem the proper way to go, but it could be seen as overcoming the bad to obtain the good. The balance in life contains the good and the bad. So, there is the symbolism of positive and negative, the good and the evil, the beautiful and the ugly which is seen in all of Nature. The trickster can play any or all of these parts to reach his goal.

The above quote is from my article at the link below. You might find it interesting.

Good and Evil in Myths

I wrote the above article several months ago and thought it would be good to include in this thread.

Great article, Phyllis! Much of the Native American Folklore is similar to the Tao, when it comes to "good" and "evil." Each can be malleable, and one can be disguised as/move into the place of the other, and take many forms. All in all, there is no fear or hatred of either form, simply the availability to learn vital life lessons, and to gain a deeper wisdom.

Thanks, Shannon.

You word your thoughts so well.

I remember often what Leo Buscaglia used to say: "If not for the bad, you would not recognize the good."

Throughout all Creation, there must be balance.

I believe that evil is perceptual and part of mans opinion. Why does one say "that is evil" and about the same thing others say it is good. My question is this' Who are we that make such pronouncements? If we truly have all of our ducks in a row then we can judge a situation from a well balanced perspective. But on the other hand if all of our ducks are in a row we might see that some things that we call either evil or good are instead just what they are. If I say that this person or spirit is evil, it has no basis in fact. It is still just my oppinion. Maybe to others this person or spirit is a good friend. Does that cancell out my reality? Even if a whole culture says that something is evil and just one person says that it is good then it is all still opinion. When I quit looking at what is good, bad, right wrong, black, white, too much, too little, too this or too that, I began to view things as in balance and quit judging things and people as these things are well beyond my scope of understanding. What is going on in the world is perfect. I have trouble with this at times also but maybe if we can not see things that way then we have some clearing to do within our own thought processes. Most times what we call evil or good is projectionary; things that go on within, not without. Just my little opinion.

I should amend this thought because I don't mean to say that everyone chooses for bad things to happen to them. We often choose our experiences but I believe that sometimes, evil-minded people do affect innocent people without consent and thereby setting into motion a whole new series of karmic debts.

I agree with you that unfortunately "evil-minded people do affect innocent people without consent..." Like you said a whole new series of karmic debts is generated by those actions.

I didn't think that you meant people actively choose for bad things to happen to them. I do believe that we have chosen certain lessons before we incarnated so we can grow as a soul. Certain lessons are not all lessons though. This is certainly my personal belief and not a generalization. I sometimes wish I know why everything happens, but I have long realized that I have to let that go in order to find peace in life.

I saw and responded earlier to the post that Michelle from the Spirituality site shared... about her cousin's cat brutally hurt Cruelty to Cats . News like this always makes me sad and think about the topic of evil or the lack of consciousness.

flutterby378 Thank you for your re-post.