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Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: Chelle - Marriage Editor] #466253
11/06/08 09:01 PM
11/06/08 09:01 PM
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Illinois
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toddzgrrl02 Offline
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Why does the word "socialist" cause you such pain? I also did some research on the terms communist and socialist and marxist, and I find it amazing that people are still in denial that Obama's desire to "spread the wealth" is anything other than socialism. If it pains you that much, maybe that is because deep down you know the truth.

From Merriam Webster Dictionary Online
Quote:

Socialism
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


I feel like #3 is a good definition that fits us where we are now.

Now, communism
Quote:
1 a: a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed2capitalized a: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably


I see this one being the end result of Obama's spread the wealth campaign. Economic goods/income is spread around equally.

and lastly, marxism
Quote:
the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx ; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society


I feel like this is his end goal. He wants to equally distribute the wealth. He wants to erase class lines.

Do you agree, disagree? Why or why not? This is just what I have come up with from my own research and from what I have seen and heard directly from Obama. I keep hearing the word "Change" and I keep hearing how all these people are ready to work with Obama to achieve this "Change" but I have yet to hear exactly WHAT change and exactly HOW they are going to help. I'd like to hear from his supporters EXACTLY what they are going to do to support and help him make whatever these changes are going to be.

And yet these same people are the one's who deny that his spread the wealth campaign is socialism. I'd like to know what exactly that is also, if not socialism. Is there a new term for it? Or are people afraid to use it because it has a bad rep but deep down really agree with it? I don't know. I really would like to understand though.


Michelle
Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: toddzgrrl02] #466285
11/06/08 11:31 PM
11/06/08 11:31 PM
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Posts: 14,392
Verde Valley, AZ
Jilly Offline
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Even McCain made a wonderful speech about working together. He was gracious and eloquent and I would have been happy enough if he won the presidency. But he recognizes that we have to work together, no excuses, to create futures we envision.

If he could be so thoughtful in his concession remarks, maybe we can take that to heart? I have no doubt he will do everything he can to encourage people to work together. I know well his record, having lived most of my adult life in Arizona - he really did stretch across both party lines, to his credit. He isn't one to undermine the government he loves b/c he didn't secure the presidency.

I think we should use this great man as an example. :-)

Last edited by Jilly; 11/06/08 11:31 PM.
Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: Jilly] #466294
11/06/08 11:43 PM
11/06/08 11:43 PM
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Reno, NV
Phyllis Doyle Burns Offline
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I agree with you, Jilly. Very well said!


Walk in Peace and Harmony.
Phyllis Doyle Burns
Avatar: Fair Helena by Rackham, Public Domain
Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: Kimmi08] #466308
11/07/08 12:18 AM
11/07/08 12:18 AM
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SE of Seattle
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SNC_Editor_Pam Offline
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Quote:
Do you agree, disagree? Why or why not? This is just what I have come up with from my own research and from what I have seen and heard directly from Obama. I keep hearing the word "Change" and I keep hearing how all these people are ready to work with Obama to achieve this "Change" but I have yet to hear exactly WHAT change and exactly HOW they are going to help. I'd like to hear from his supporters EXACTLY what they are going to do to support and help him make whatever these changes are going to be.


You might want to read Barack Obama's plans at

BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Last edited by SNC_Editor_Pam; 11/07/08 12:23 AM.

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Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: Cnote] #466321
11/07/08 12:50 AM
11/07/08 12:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 37
Florida
Tamira-Women's Fashion Offline
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I am also happy that Obama won the election. I can even begin to think how sad it would have been for our future and the future of our children if he had not won. Don't get me wrong McCain is a hero and had he been younger and more on task with the issues I would have been interested in having him as President. The slave house to the white house comment (made by another poster) is not something that should have been put out there though. Yes African Americans have come a long way but this is how we began to heal the wounds of old by simply moving on. Does that mean forget? NO but he didn't get in office with just African American votes, I saw Whites, Hispanics, Asians, and Africans Americans voting, so while I understand what you ment it was just phrased wrong. Go Obama!!!

Last edited by Tamira-Women's Fashion; 11/07/08 12:53 AM.

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Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: toddzgrrl02] #466333
11/07/08 01:29 AM
11/07/08 01:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,053
Texas
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Kimmi08 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: toddzgrrl02
I agree Michelle. I don't think that by disagreeing with him I am "close minded" though... and I don't think it means I have to agree with every move he makes. After all, there are MANY who support the troops but not the President in the War... But I do and will pray that he makes the right choices for America and I will continue to be active in my local politics and hope that the changes he makes will help, and not harm, America. Only time will tell.

I do congratulate him on winning. It's too bad his grandmother didn't get to see his win. I am sad for him and his family for that.


Michelle, you got me on this one. I can finally say I've read something you've posted in this forum that I agree with. I thank you for saying that and no, you're not closeminded but some are. Thanks again,....see we can be respecful.


Kimberly C. Cannon, Former Bulb Gardening Editor
Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: Lynn_B] #466334
11/07/08 01:30 AM
11/07/08 01:30 AM
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Texas
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Originally Posted By: Lynn_B
Pray for the soul of America as the country struggles to retain some semblance of democracy under a socialist regime.


No time for pessimism Lynne. wink We can all do it together. What if God allowed this to happen to our country to see if we would work together? Think about it as we roll up our sleeves in unity :)and help save our country. No more finger pointing, that's for those who have never, ever made a mistake in anything. (smile)

Last edited by Kimmie08; 11/07/08 01:32 AM.

Kimberly C. Cannon, Former Bulb Gardening Editor
Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: SNC_Editor_Pam] #466335
11/07/08 01:30 AM
11/07/08 01:30 AM
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This thread is all over the place which makes it difficult to respond to everything so let me start here:

Quote:
I would like to read what *you* did to support and help George W. Bush in his 2004 plans for America and especially how you attempted to avert or remedy what are now seen as his tremendous mistakes.


Very well said, Pam. And now, for everyone who is saying we need to work together with Obama, please answer the question above. What did 'you' do to work with President Bush?

For the past 8 years we have heard nothing but Bush-bashing and somehow it even became socially acceptable to bash our President. It's interesting how one day has changed everything. All of a sudden it is irreverent to say anything non-Pollyanna about Obama. Why the difference? Why the double standard?


Kay
Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: bepart] #466337
11/07/08 01:34 AM
11/07/08 01:34 AM
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Texas
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Kimmi08 Offline OP
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Kay, if only he would have allowed us. He had his own game plan and wanted to be the only participant in playing. Now, you know that. Seriously.

Get past the bad parts and let's welcome new ones. Are you game? Are do you want to stay down in the dumps about this?


Kimberly C. Cannon, Former Bulb Gardening Editor
Re: Barack Obama...President [Re: Jilly] #466338
11/07/08 01:40 AM
11/07/08 01:40 AM
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Texas
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Kimmi08 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Jilly
Even McCain made a wonderful speech about working together. He was gracious and eloquent and I would have been happy enough if he won the presidency. But he recognizes that we have to work together, no excuses, to create futures we envision.

If he could be so thoughtful in his concession remarks, maybe we can take that to heart? I have no doubt he will do everything he can to encourage people to work together. I know well his record, having lived most of my adult life in Arizona - he really did stretch across both party lines, to his credit. He isn't one to undermine the government he loves b/c he didn't secure the presidency.

I think we should use this great man as an example. :-)


And here's the sad part Jilly. Just like I said in another topic on this same forum about love. Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh actually (I could not believe this), tore down McCain in what he said. He started complaining about why McCain lost...it was because of the matter of speech he gave on the night of Obama winning. Even had the nerve to say, "this is why us conservatives are messed up" we have some of us going to the other side instead of unifying despite our mistakes." Is that ludicrous or what?

I'm Christian. Love Jesus and reverence God with all my might but if I knew that the person I saw for example, was an atheist and needed my help, it would be my duty to serve him with love. How many of you are Christians? Because a Christian attitude would never, ever put down someone because their viewpoints differed yours. Some are giving us the definition of socialism, how 'bout you check the definition of love. See where you fit. Each of us.

Amazing what Rush said. If only those who make a life of passing hate (hannity and others....), would just stop for a moment and reflect, they might just shut up but then that would be a fantasy.

McCain's wording made me tear up. Here he is saying let's work together, but just take a look through this forum and see the negativity. Its like they want to see Obama fail. I didn't vote for Bush and never have voted Republican but even I prayed that Bush wouldn't do, just what he did. Apparently, it was God's will. Just thought I'd shared the pessimistic,ugliness of "some" republican views. It's really, really sad.

Last edited by Kimmie08; 11/07/08 01:44 AM.

Kimberly C. Cannon, Former Bulb Gardening Editor
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