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Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: bepart] #466120
11/06/08 08:45 AM
11/06/08 08:45 AM
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whoisjohngalt Offline
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I believe in United We Stand with all my heart. But this just stands logic on its head. For the last eight years, I heard the constant drumbeat of how bad George W was. I heard how we failed in Iraq. I heard how the mortgage crisis was supposedly George W's fault even though key Democrat leaders are on video standing against any type of reform and even attacking the whistle-blowers. I had thought the country was divided before. Now we have Barack and we are supposed to unite behind him and support him?

I can't do it. I have strongly disagreed with most of words that come out of his mouth. In fact, I can't find a point that I do agree with him. I can't find anything that he has accomplished in his years of public service.

I admit, and it is obvious, I do have a bias. But I tried my own exercise that I suggested a while back of finding something good about the apposing candidate. I could not come up with anything other than he speaks very elequantly.

I have literally sought out people in my travels just to ask them why they supported Obama. Nothing other than "he's going to bring change and unite the country."

I am very hurt by this election and I feel betrayed by my fellow countrymen for electing him and I just don't feel that I, in good concience, could give him my support.

And let me be clear- I don't care about his race. I wouldn't care if he was white, black, green, blue, male, female, ugly, handsom, pretty, rich, poor- I judge people ONLY the way Martin Luther King Jr. prescribed. That is by their character.

Barack has made no bones about how he feels about this country, and what his plans are.

I realize the election is over, there is nothing to do about it. My plan is to put one foot in front of the other for the next two years and then I will see if I can't help campaign for the mid-terms.

-whoisjohngalt

Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: whoisjohngalt] #466332
11/07/08 01:24 AM
11/07/08 01:24 AM
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Kimmi08 Offline
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What is so compellingly intriguing is that for some reason, every time I come into this specific political forum, not one ounce of love seems to be shown. None. All you ever read is what someone said in another forum in this same political party, "same ole' words" of pettiness, judgemental attitudes and a lot of millenium Phariseeism.

what I mean by millenium phariseeism is this: there was a party of people that constantly followed right behind Jesus Christ, to put down everything he did. When he healed, they complained it was the wrong day, when he forgave sin, they challenged this authority. The same thing here. This is why this country is messed up.

Tonight, find a scripture in your bible, if you have one and if you read one, on love. You don't have to like Pres. B. Obama but at least pray that God leads him into helping us as a country.

It brought tears to my eyes to see all over the world, people of different ethnecities, status' etc..., they were neither Dem. or Repub. not even American, but they found something in this man to appreciate with a smile.

Find love and less complaint....that's all I challenge the millenium pharisees to do. Remember, what you say and how you judge someone, will one day come back to you....no doubt.

Last edited by Kimmie08; 11/07/08 01:25 AM.

Kimberly C. Cannon, Former Bulb Gardening Editor
Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: Kimmi08] #466355
11/07/08 02:30 AM
11/07/08 02:30 AM
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Quote:
What is so compellingly intriguing is that for some reason, every time I come into this specific political forum, not one ounce of love seems to be shown.


Kimmie, this is a serious topic. If you are looking for warm fuzzies then you need to go to a different forum.

I don't hate Obama. I don't even dislike him. Actually, I don't even 'know' him because many facts about his life were not revealed to us. However, what I don't like is his socialist agenda. I don't like his agenda to increase the death tax, increase the capital gains and dividend taxes, increase income taxes on the highest tax bracket, allow the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, as well as many other tax increases. I don't agree with his energy plan or with his health plan. In fact, there's not one thing he has presented that I agree with.

You so desperately want to make this about race but it's not about race at all. I understand the history of racism and slavery but I believe that as a country we moved past this decades ago. I am so tired of having the distinction made between 'black' and 'white.' You say you are getting tired of the "same ole' words of pettiness" well I am getting tired of this constant mention of Obama's race. I don't care if he is black, white, brown, etc. My issues are with his intentions not with the color of his skin.

If the Dems weren't in control I might feel less strongly about Obama but he has the full support of a majority of liberal, far-left people....at least for the next two years.

So far Obama has offered nothing tangible and has promised nothing that I agree on. I will always take the higher ground (the ground not taken by the Dems for the past 8 years or by the media) and I will not treat him with the same disrespect as people have treated Bush. However, I will not support policies and laws that violate my core beliefs.


Kay
Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: bepart] #466432
11/07/08 03:07 PM
11/07/08 03:07 PM
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Kay's absolutely right. And frankly, had this been Bush, I'm fairly certain the folks complaining about the "lack of love" here would have been running amok with pitch forks themselves.

Politics isn't about love, my friend. You can love your fellow man and still not condone what he does. I've no issues with Obama the man. My issues are with his politics and his course of action.

As for the comments about millenium pharisees, Obama isn't Christ. He isn't the Messiah. He isn't a savior. (Nor is he the anti-christ). If you feel you must be Biblical about this, Christ instructs His followers to be the light in a world of darkness and salt in a world of decay. (Matthew 5:13-16) Hence, Christians are to stand vigilant against tyranny. There are no nice, polite or benevolent tyrannies. The Bible is full of brave men who defied and resisted earthly rulers.

As citizens, we must take a stand against those beliefs we see as damaging and be ever vigilant against would be tyrants.

Last edited by Lynn_B; 11/07/08 03:16 PM.
Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: Lynn_B] #466526
11/07/08 11:45 PM
11/07/08 11:45 PM
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Jilly Offline
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Kimmie, as this is the Republican forum, these are appropriate thread topics to have here and good points. It's not fair for a democrat to come here and tell anyone they are wrong. Just FYI. smile

Last edited by Jilly; 11/08/08 01:38 AM.
Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: Kimmi08] #466621
11/08/08 08:52 AM
11/08/08 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Kimmie08
You don't have to like Pres. B. Obama but at least pray that God leads him into helping us as a country.

It brought tears to my eyes to see all over the world, people of different ethnecities, status' etc..., they were neither Dem. or Repub. not even American, but they found something in this man to appreciate with a smile.


It is so sad that this subject line is even being discussed. As John McCain himself said, Barack Obama is a decent person and a decent family man, and a citizen that he just happened to have disagreements with on fundamental issues.

Why are we discussing supposed hand gestures, and watching news segments about the White House dog or what kind of dog the Obamas will have in the White House, when we have the worst job loss news ever from October, terrible losses in the stock market, and other serious business for our country to focus on this week? Why are we having to listen to ridiculous stories about Sarah Palin's wardrobe or what she thinks is wrong with the media - when the media should be questioning President Bush on how Congress and the American people can work together to get some help for business, the economy, homeowners or whatever else needs to be done?

It is *interesting* to know what Barack Obama is doing during these transition weeks but we don't have a time out until January 20th - we need to know what questions should be asked from now until then of the President and elected officials who are supposed to keep working until then.

People are losing their jobs, health insurance, homes and savings; we have wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and American troops are being hurt and killed every day. Why are we not demanding that the media and politicians focus on these terrible troubles and let us know who is working on figuring out what to do about it right now. I want to see a dozen economic advisors standing behind George W. Bush when I turn on the TV, and I want to hear him talk every day to let us know what is going on in D.C. Why can't John McCain be interviewed about what he is doing as a Senator working on our behalf in this crisis, instead of Sarah Palin on the anonymous comments from campaign workers about her alleged shortcomings?

Certainly for a few weeks we could address more serious topics than how Barack Obama scratches his nose. I agree completely with Kimmie - we need to be prayerful, if we've got prayers, and supportive of any inspiration or leader who is actually keeping a focus on the serious issues facing our country right down to our little neighborhoods.

Republicans have so much to offer beyond what we are reading here - and we should be demanding a focus on Republicans in office who must be working on these serious issues - including our current President who also needs prayers and support. He is not going to cost any candidates votes or loss of confidence and is still leader of the free world, so now is the chance for Republicans to show they can work within their party with him and across the aisle with Democrats and Independents.

It's going to be a bumpy ride for us all.

Pam W
SE of Seattle





Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: Kimmi08] #466737
11/08/08 09:36 PM
11/08/08 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kimmie08
what I mean by millenium phariseeism is this: there was a party of people that constantly followed right behind Jesus Christ, to put down everything he did. When he healed, they complained it was the wrong day, when he forgave sin, they challenged this authority. The same thing here. This is why this country is messed up.

Find love and less complaint....that's all I challenge the millenium pharisees to do. Remember, what you say and how you judge someone, will one day come back to you....no doubt.


I recall from my history and Catholic upbringing that the pharisees were the ones who criticised Christ. Are we once again going to try to say that Obama is the Second Coming? If we are, then I'll post the opposite just to be fair.

Revelation and Apocyliptic experts believe that the A.C. will hail from the East, be in his 40's and will have a smooth tongue- preaching unity and togetherness, while at the same time driving brother against brother. Obama fits each of these aspects.

The seas will boil- there is a supposed global warming issue put forth by high ranking Democrat leaders (not backed by science or facts) guarenteeing that the oceans will boil by 2016 according to Al Gore.

The dead will rise- ACORN is famous for voting using the names of dead people. This is big in Chicago and Obama's campaign donated $800,000 to ACORN. Technically, this could be the dead rising.

I do not post this to pick a fight, I am just offering a different viewpoint other than what the media, Democrat leaders, and Obama's Campaign- that is that he is a magical entity an uniter that we haven't seen since Jesus Christ. That he has so much in common.

I personally believe that Revelations is symbolic- not litteral and i am just offering the opposite point of view just to be fair. I am tired of hearing how Christ-like he is when the opposite can be seen just as easily.

-whoisjohngalt

Last edited by Jilly; 11/09/08 02:30 AM.
Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: whoisjohngalt] #467008
11/10/08 12:56 AM
11/10/08 12:56 AM
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When Christians compare themselves or another to Jesus Christ, they are not equating themselves or the other with Him, and I think in this case the writer admires Barack Obama for conducting himself in a Christian manner, constant criticism notwithstanding.

Although I find President-Elect Obama's Christian values refreshing, it's likely that most religions identify similar traits as being in the teachings of their religions' founders.

I identify what I most admire in John McCain's character as Christian values, also, but I'm sure that followers of other religions admire him for those traits, as well, and identify them with their own religions.

The point made about criticism, complaints and challenges holding back our progress in addressing the current economic crisis and other huge issues is valid. But both parties heaped the same on George W. Bush during the campaign, and as far as I can tell, have not let up in order to focus on what he might accomplish in the weeks before President-Elect Obama takes office. We need our leaders to reach across the aisle right now, and not wait until January 20th - and we need the same focus after January 20th, too.

I believe it's the Christian thing to do - but those of other religions no doubt feel that it is what their faith prescribes - and those without faith no doubt would judge it the humanistic, pragmatic or just plain ethical way to address our country's best interests, too.

We have a long way to go before our economy is healthy and prosperity makes working together an easier task. The election is over and now is the time to unite as Americans with serious intent on improving our nation's future. This is what both McCain and Obama promised during their long campaigns. Let's see it start at the grassroots.

Pam W
SE of Seattle



Originally Posted By: whoisjohngalt
Originally Posted By: Kimmie08
what I mean by millenium phariseeism is this: there was a party of people that constantly followed right behind Jesus Christ, to put down everything he did. When he healed, they complained it was the wrong day, when he forgave sin, they challenged this authority. The same thing here. This is why this country is messed up.

Find love and less complaint....that's all I challenge the millenium pharisees to do. Remember, what you say and how you judge someone, will one day come back to you....no doubt.


I recall from my history and Catholic upbringing that the pharisees were the ones who criticised Christ. Are we once again going to try to say that Obama is the Second Coming? -whoisjohngalt


Pamela Wilson - Children with Special Needs Editor
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Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: SNC_Editor_Pam] #467246
11/10/08 09:56 PM
11/10/08 09:56 PM
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Quote:
I think in this case the writer admires Barack Obama for conducting himself in a Christian manner, constant criticism notwithstanding.


Right away I see a problem with this statement. What one may think is him conducting himself in a "Christian manner" another may not see that way.

I also don't see all of his "values" refreshing. It's obvious that those who are liberal democrats are going to differ in opinions GREATLY from conservative republicans. Especially if they are TRUE conservatives and not moderates. It's just a matter in differences of opinion. I think way too many people are taking the criticisms of how republicans feel about Obama personally because they agree with Obama so they feel it is a personal attack. However, it is not. It is not even a personal attack on Obama, but rather on what he wants to do. That is why there are TWO parties. If we all agreed, we would have no need for two parties, or moderates. We would all be in agreement. However, the issues are all so complex, and interconnected that I don't forsee us all agreeing, ever. I don't take things written here personally, mainly because life is too short. I don't post things to incite anger. I post them to get opinions. It's not like democrats have successful talk radio we can go listen to whistle

With all this talk that Republicans are the big bad meanies, I think the people saying that should probably remember this is the Republican forum and that this is where we come to discuss matters of importance to US. Of course they are going to reflect our conservative beliefs and of course they are going to criticize things that democrats say and do because we have different opinions. It's not like we are coming to your area and posting stuff to incite hate from you.

I honestly hope that Obama does well. Not because he is a black man. Not because he is a man, period. Not because he is a democrat. But simply because our country needs some good leadership. The main problem I have is that the things he wants to change, while they might be important and yes, need help, the ways in which he wants to change them frighten me. If he can manage to accomplish great things without harming a huge demographic of people, great. Of course I will be praying and ultimately know it's all in God's hands. I am not one to start yelling it's the end of the world or anything (although I have seen plenty of that!!) but my feelings are, if it is, so what? God said it would happen, and if now is the time, who are we to stop it? It's GOING to happen (based on our beliefs, if you don't believe, you could care less about this). I plan on posting some thoughts in the religion area later to go along with this.


Michelle
Re: obama flips McCain the bird this time [Re: toddzgrrl02] #467255
11/10/08 10:15 PM
11/10/08 10:15 PM
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Jilly Offline
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Toddzgrrl is totally right. This is the Republican Party's forum and the place they come to find support for their views. It is completely inappropriate to come in here and put down the Republican viewpoint. frown

I suggest that people seeking to debate their POVs try the Philosophy Forum, or the Current Events Forum here at BellaOnline? smile


Last edited by Jilly; 11/10/08 10:17 PM.
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