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#459375 10/14/08 07:32 PM
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Shay brought up Taoism on a thread I had going elsewhere, and it made me realize that I really don't know much about this religion/philosophy.

I've always kind of equated it in my mind with Buddhism.

So I wanted to see who all studies this, and what it is all about. I'm reading about it elsewhere on the web, but it always makes such a difference when I hear about religions from the people that celebrate them.

Thanks!


Michelle Taylor
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Hi Chelle:

I consider myself a Taoist. Some people see it as a religion, some as a philosophy. I, myself, see it as a philosophy. I think that is something each person would have to judge for themselves. It is based on a book of short chapters or parables called the "Tao Te Ching" by Lao Tsu, who may be one person or a group of writers. But nevertheless it is an ancient writing. The chapters are not easily understood. At first glance they seem to make no sense. They are not meant to be read, but thought over and pondered. Everyone comes away with a differnt meaning or feeling from the chapters.
It's symbol is the Yin Yang. Most people who know a little about it see it as black and white. But it is much more complex than that. It symbolizes the whole of Daoism. Not just black and white but all opposites. male/female cold/hot, creation/destruction. In fact it represents all opposites in the universe, for everything has an opposite. The two small dots of opposite color in each side symbolizes that nothing is ever all of one thing. In the sun you will find shadow and beneath the moon you will find light. The two "tadpole" shapes represent the opposites and one comes to a point at the fat end of the other. This symbolizes the growing and waning of all things. For everything starts out small at it's minimum and grows to it's maximum, it then changes to the opposite and starts with the minimum of that.
creation and destruction is a large and very important part of daoism and represents the two halves the best for there can not be creation without destruction and vice versa. Destruction is not seen as a bad thing. but a necessary thing.
An example used is a forest. A forest starts out small and grows to it's maximum. When it becomes as large as it can be the taller limbs shade the undergrowth and causes it to die (minimum destruction) but it will take a fire to clean out the dead debree beneath (max destruction) only then can the forest resume growing again.
I try to remember this in all things. Like the financial trouble of today. Banks grew to their max, to the point they could not grow anymore. Now the destructive cycle starts and when it is over, new systems will be created and everything will be balanced and made right again.
Daoism seeks that balance.. balance is everything in Daoism. Everything in life goes through a creative and destructive cycle. Even we humans. We grow up/we grow old.. we die and retun to the earth to start the cycle over.
Doaist believe in Chi.. a life force that flows through all things. It passes from one thing to another. I explained it this way when I was teaching it... The sun warms a rock fence by day and holds that heat, at night when the world is chilled that stone still holds it's heat and passes it to the small rabbit that finds refuge next to it to stay warm. Chi is the bases of karma... the energy you pass on will come back to you eventually.. maybe not from that person but in some way. If someone is rude to you which causes you to be rude to someone else, you pass that negative chi on, if you instead decide to be kind to the next person you have changed that Chi to positive. Either way it will return to you later. Chi is neutral.. neither negative or positive... it just is... it is earth energy. What you do with it and how you decide to use it makes it creative or destructive.
There is no good/bad or negative/positive or good/evil in Daoism. There are only cycles separated into Yin and Yang.
The balance comes not from a perfect point between creative and destructive, but is found in the tilting back and forth. A scale, even when balanced will gently rock back and forth. The hope is that it will never careen to one side or the other. extreme creation is as chaotic as extreme destruction. Cancer is an example of extreme creation when the cells grow too much.

I am so sorry this got so long. It's just not something that can be explained in a few sentences. I am sure I have forgotten a few things and there may be others who have a different take on it. As I said, everyone comes away with a different lesson.
The very first sentence in the Tao Te Ching says... " if you can speak the Tao, it is not the true Tao." It also says:( my translation)The Tao is like a pool of water, you can only see the surface, what is deeper is hidden and must be looked for.

So you decide.. religion or philosophy?
May your life be balanced laugh

Bylen


Bylen #459495 10/15/08 10:05 AM
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Hello Bylen !! Excellent description and an excellent philosophy !! Chi is a life force and energy that is healing and restorative. We westerners need to seek out its benefits !! Glad to see your post !!!!

#459604 10/15/08 04:49 PM
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Thank you Flaxman. I know I left a lot out, but I think I hit the basics laugh


Bylen #459605 10/15/08 04:50 PM
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Hi Bylen,

Thank you for the wonderful post. It describes Taoism very well.

Michelle,

I am not a Taoist. However, I am somehow familiar with this philosophy/religion as I grew up with many Taoists. Depends on the region you speak to, Taoism can be seen both as a branch of philosophy and a religion. Many parts of the Asia practice the �secular� Taoism as a religion where many rituals are performed on specific dates where believers use food and flowers as offerings to the gods and the past spirits (ancestors, loved ones�ect.). There is a fundamental belief that these rituals not only show their respect, believers in return will be well cared for through these devotional practices. Incents are commonly used in prayers. However, in the West, I noticed that Taoism is seen mainly as philosophy. In my mind, it is a more accurate recognition as I saw that in the �secular� Taoism practices, many important aspects of Tao were lost.

Basic beliefs of Buddhism include reincarnation, suffering, and karma. In contract, Taoism focuses on balance and the �way� of life. Instead of focusing one�s karma from the past lives or its effects into future incarnation, Taoists concentrate on living in the present moment. In addition, Buddhists view life as full of suffering whereas Taoists focus on blending the nature and oneself in order to achieve the harmonic balance of life. Taoism teaches that life can be essentially good.

Another major difference between Taoism and Buddhism is their origins.

Buddhism is based on the teaching of Siddhattha Gotama from ancient India. Buddhism did eventually spread into China as well as many parts of the world and became the most prevalent religion in China. In contrast, Taoism is based on the teaching and philosophy of Tao Te Ching authored by Laozi, an ancient Chinese philosopher of the 6th century BC (some historian argued that he lived around 4th century BC). Taoism was not officially recognized until the Tang Dynasty.

As Bylen said, there are lots about Taoism than one can say in a single post, but I hope this helps.

Cara smile


C.C. #459642 10/15/08 06:19 PM
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Beautifully put Cara. Thank you for reminding me of this aspect of it. I think also the difference in Taoism and Buddhism is the social aspect of it. Buddhism tends to focus on society and a persons place in that society more than Taoism... would you concur?
Feng Shui originated in Taoist ritualism. It began with the placement of graves. It's become commercialized in our western culture though frown

Bylen

Bylen #459653 10/15/08 06:47 PM
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I agree. I think Buddhism calls more for social responsibility of an individual. In terms of Feng Shui, I am not sure if it began with placement of the graves. It's one school of argument. I have to look more into it.

Bylen, I just now notice the quote following your post ".... when we stop fearing we can truly love." How true! smile

Bylen #460352 10/17/08 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Bylen

I consider myself a Taoist. Some people see it as a religion, some as a philosophy. I, myself, see it as a philosophy. I think that is something each person would have to judge for themselves. It is based on a book of short chapters or parables called the "Tao Te Ching" by Lao Tsu, who may be one person or a group of writers. But nevertheless it is an ancient writing. The chapters are not easily understood. At first glance they seem to make no sense. They are not meant to be read, but thought over and pondered. Everyone comes away with a differnt meaning or feeling from the chapters.


Hi Balen,
It's so great to meet another Taoist here on BellaOnline. Welcome!

There are a couple of translations of Tao Teh Cheng - one is more difficult to understand than the other. Which do you have? I have the version translated by John C. H. Wu, and find it very inspiring and easy to understand. I love the fact that you can just open up the book at any page, and read a daily passage.

I haven't been in a while, but my SunDo yoga class, which is Tao based has a passage read by the teacher at the end of each class. We have a brief discussion on the meaning, and what it might bring to mind on that day. It's really wonderful.

I love passage 41:
"When a wise scholar hears the Tao,
He practices it diligently.
When a mediocre scholar hears the Tao,
He wavers between belief and unbelief.
When a worthless scholar hears the Tao,
He laughs boisterously at it.
But if such a one does not laugh at it,
The Tao would not be the Tao!"

It then goes on about the opposites...
"The bright way looks dim.
The progressive way looks retrograde.
The smooth way looks rugged." ...etc

I also see the Tao as a philosophy, but I love what Cara said about "secular" Taoism as a religion, and the Western version as a philosophy. In my SunDo class, there is a lot of ritual posing set to a specific chant. It is wonderfully relaxing, but I do have a difficult time with sticking to rituals. What I really relate to about the Taoist philosophy is embracing the wholeness of life, and it's never ending and blending shifts from "darkness" to "light." In Michelle's thread that led to this one, I mentioned quantum physics and how it blends with the Tao - the humbling factors of the "proof" of how opposites contain one another. There are scientifically, no "edges," and yet, there most undeniably are edges! You could contemplate that for hours! smile

Shay

Shannon L. Wolf #460353 10/17/08 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: Shay_LoveYourTummy
There are scientifically, no "edges," and yet, there most undeniably are edges! You could contemplate that for hours! smile

Shay



And above someone mentioned that the Yin-Yang originated in Tao.

It kind of makes me think of the saying "two sides of the same coin". They are opposite, yet connected.

I can definitely see the appeal in this.


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Originally Posted By: ChelleLaunch&Spirituality
Originally Posted By: Shay_LoveYourTummy
There are scientifically, no "edges," and yet, there most undeniably are edges! You could contemplate that for hours! smile

Shay



And above someone mentioned that the Yin-Yang originated in Tao.

It kind of makes me think of the saying "two sides of the same coin". They are opposite, yet connected.

I can definitely see the appeal in this.


Yes, yes - rather than the struggle with choosing a side to define oneself with, the Tao allows the recognition of one existing in relationship with the other. And the acceptance that perfection within oneself on the side of, say, "infinite good" for example, is a tough order to fill - as I do stand by my personal convictions, yet am not inclined to "fight" for my "rightness." I guess I'm not much of a fighter, though a throwing around of ideas is highly appealing. smile

I actually was a "born again" Christian long ago, but struggled with the fact that God allowed "satan" to fall to the earth, to influence innocent humans - then the humans get judged/blamed for unwittingly falling prey to it. (This is in no way to scrutinize anyone who embraces this idea with full understanding - just an admission that personally, I couldn't.) I realized that this belief was not something I could get my arms/mind around, and so moved on. It was really just last year that I discovered the Tao. I now feel relaxed and comfortable with the idea that both exist for a purpose. Understanding the "ultimate" purpose isn't my burden, but the aside feeling that it doesn't matter, appeals to me. I simply trust that it matters on some level, and that's enough for me.

I also want to thank you, Michelle, for opening up the notion of the Tao on the Philosophy Site. Thanks! smile

Shay

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