BellaOnline Forums Family Child Abuse Keeping the abuser in your life

Hello, I am new here and want to apologize up front for a very long intro. I am a 28 year old "child abuse survivor". A survivor�? I will keep it simple and say since my father didn't actually kill me physically I survived...but the little girl I was growing up, I mourned her death many years ago, her childhood and her innocence did not survive. I remember being under my bed, about 6 years old thinking to my little self...I am dying, my soul, my heart, my life is gone, I gave into a deep darkness under my bed a deep depression and understanding of pain, that fathers don�t always love their daughters the way I thought they should, I was the only real witness to my tremendous feelings of rage and pain and wrote short worded poems under my bed to release my pain sometimes. It was a lot for a small girl to keep all to herself. My rage inside would scare me sometimes because I knew what that kind of rage could do if I ever let it out. I never told anyone about those poems, the poems I'd write about how my father made me feel.
He never sexually abused me from what I can remember but he did hit me a lot with the belt and he would verbally bash me, my twin brother and my Mom and basically scare us with his rage and uncontrollable need to control everyone and everything. My mom the non-disciplinarian...I find it's much easier for me sometimes to not be so mad with her for what she herself could not do for herself or us. But my father, I feel as though the question "How could you" looms over me like a foul odor.
I feel as though I experience "cycles" of flashbacks, one week I am feeling great, strong, happy and self assured, and then WHAM, outta no where my father calls to demand something and BOOM, I'm right back under my bed feeling rage, hate, pain and depression.
I lived at home until I was almost 24. My Father stopped hitting me when I was getting too big for it, I guess was his reasoning...I really can't remember exactly what age, it must have been around the time I started driving. Despite the fact that he no longer would threaten me with "The Belt" he'd still verbally and mentally rip me down. By the last four or five years I lived home my father basically made it known he had given up on being my father, he didn't talk to me and if he did it was a fight, he was cold and hurtful. When family would come over or we went to a family holiday he'd act like this great father being nice for �show� and even smiling and "trying" to talk, how things �looked� on the outside was VERY important to my father...which only made me hate him more, I despised his "fakeness" and for him lying to everyone by pretending he was nice.

No one really knew what kind of a father he was unless you were my twin brother or Mom. It was our little secret and it killed me inside.

Then one day I decided things in my life had really come to a head and I could stand no more. Even fear of my father destroying my brother and Mom wasn�t enough anymore to keep me home. I decided to make a change in my life, a big drastic huge life altering change to find happiness and go for what I always wanted in life and love. I left my fianc� of four years (he was borderline abusive and mentally abusive), moved out of my home at the same time my twin brother also moved out (he was my survival partner growing up and we are very close), ended my 17 year friendship with my one and only girlfriend, my best friend, because it to had begun to resemble an abusive unhealthy relationship over the last five or more years and fell in love with a man I met at work and moved in together about an hour away from my family.
I walked away from everything abusive in my life and promised to never allow that kind of pain and abuse in my life ever again. When my boyfriend and I moved in together I put a sign in our door window that said �B nice or leave� it was my little way of drawing a line and setting the first boundaries for all who wanted to challenge my life ever again. It was a direct letter to my father and ex-best friend really. Even though I have made these major changes, began a seriously intense yoga practice to follow my path in life to happiness and peace and healing, I hold a great job in a quaint NJ town, I still struggle daily with my feelings and memories of my childhood.
So here is where I am at and what I feel I need some help with (sorry this is SO long). I feel sometimes as though the pain and experience were as fresh as the mornings air and everyone can see it on my face, I live in an altered state of reality, present time and reliving traumatic past memories like a Vietnam Vet. There are days when I don�t think about it and then there are day with triggers that send me spiraling into a pit of pain and anger for weeks and it takes a lot of awareness and work on my part to pull out of it and not let those memories ruin my present opportunity to have a good life. My family has never addressed the abuse or ever spoke about it. It�s something no one ever goes near with a ten foot poll and times when I have mentioned things to my mother she acts as if it wasn�t that bad or she didn�t know I was so upset over it�that hurts, because I know she knows how bad it was, she not only doesn�t stand up for me, she takes away my voice and instead of being a witness to my childhood pain and abuse she acts as if it never happened and now at my ripe old age of 28 I shouldn�t be so �difficult� and oh yea, �your father loves you, you know that�.
Deep down I struggle with the idea of cutting my father out of my life completely or just leaving things alone now as they are, only seeing him when I have to and healing myself without involving him. It�s as if when I moved out it erased all their memory of how they were and they want me to follow suit, just let it go and forget about it. My father now is �trying� to do small things to �be nice� but deep down I struggle with the hate and pain I still have for him. There is a part of me that wants to �go along with the plan� but then there�s the part that experiences something of a PTSD every time I see him or have to be around him. Father�s Day is always a very hard day for me as it is basically the perfect analogy for how I feel in a nutshell; It�s Father�s Day, I want to pick out a nice card that says all this really great stuff about what a supportive great Dad I have but he�s not and I don�t feel like that and in fact I want to scream from the rooftops how much pain and agony he�s caused in my childhood�but I inevitably buy a simple card, sign I love you and get the whole damn day over with as fast as I can. I hate Father�s Day and I hate that I actually feel guilty for not wanting to pat him on the back and say �Hey you�re a great Dad� but I can�t and mean it, so I lie which is yet another thing I don�t believe in doing ever, I know it�s not my fault, He was a Bad Father. Torn with no real friends it�s hard to choose to cut yet another abusive person out when I already feel so lonely and now with his �small� attempts it makes me feel even more guilty, but the truth is these feelings have never been addressed and he�s never confronted me and said I�m sorry for what I�ve done to you and until that day I feel that total healing just isn�t possible on my own. It will always be right there under the surface. My wonderful boyfriend is very supportive and helps me anyway he can but as I�m sure you all know, someone who�s never been through that kind of childhood really can�t believe or relate, he had a wonderfully loving childhood. It�s a lonely feeling to keep to yourself. Thanks for letting me share, I don�t feel alone anymore since I found this site. Do any of you still have a relationship with your abuser and how do you cope with that? ~Namaste

B,

You have been through a lot - and you are a survivor. The fact that you can still go on to have a loving relationship, that you are even contemplating mending fences with your dad, that you are making good decisions in your life - this all points to a healthy person!

But you have been through trauma, and it would be surprising if you didn't have some fall-out left from it. PTSA is very real. And even little things will set it off sometimes, a TV show with a similar storyline, seeing someone thst looks like your dad, hearing another child being "disciplined" the way you were - all these things can bring on anything from a gut dropping feeling to a full out flashback.

Have you considered going to a counselor who specializes in child-abuse issues? It might help to get some of this out in the open to a neutral 3rd party.

And BTW - you do not owe your father the chance to be a dad again. He blew that when you were young. There is no reason for you to feel guilty about not wanting to treat him mas if he's always been there for you.

He may be trying to make amends, or he may be trying to assuage his guilt from the past. I amagine he is a very lonely man now - but it is his own doing. "We reap what we sowe" - it may be trite, but it is true.

And never fell bad about coming here to vent - that is what this place is for!

Michelle,

Thanks so much for the reply. This is the first time I've ever talked to another person whose been thru this sort of stuff and I can't tell you what a feeling it is to see some of what you wrote, it brings me to tears. Just talking to you guys is so theraputic, I feel like I have an army behind me! I've been to 2 Psychologist over the years and even studied to become one; I have many credits but never fully persued the profession. I did go to a therapist who specialized in RIBT, Rational Emotive Behavioral Threapy. It has a few helpful techniques I felt helped me out, but there are some parts to the therapy that leave me still feeling like I'm holding a big heavy bad of shame and hate when it comes to the abuse part of my life.
When my life slows down a bit more again I do intend on taking up another type of therapy to help me with my healing (anyone know of a good doc in central/northern NJ?), for now my boyfrined and I are building our own house so things are busy to say the least.

-He may be trying to make amends, or he may be trying to assuage his guilt from the past. I amagine he is a very lonely man now - but it is his own doing. "We reap what we sowe" - it may be trite, but it is true.-

I think he is trying to relieve some of his guilt and maybe make amends but he's not doing it directly, he wants me to forget it without ever having to face it or admit it, his on-off "good" behavior isn't consistant enough either, my fears are so strong that I don't feel I'm ready for that kind of confrontation.

Plus deep down my core says not hurt anyone, EVEN IF he's hurt me terribly, I don't want to inflict it back on him by being truthful. I know that deep down my father does love me (I think, yet I ask everyday then HOW could he do that?), but he did bad things and really wrong things and so I know sadly he ruined his own image of being a great father, even the good things he did do for us seem so insignificant becasue of the pain that hasn't ever been acknowledged. On top of that I feel as though somehow he'd explain his behavior away by saying things like I was a difficult child and too sensitive and stubborn...I don't want to hear that kind of cr*p anymore, it's like being abused all over again.
I know logically I don't OWE it to him, but every fiber of my being feels like I do...fear and my own belief that family is family I guess...at the end of the day something says "He's your father". Can you ever leave that behind and walk away completely? And when you do does it really go away?

No, it never goes away.

But there is one more trite saying thast comes to mind,
"You can't choose your family"

You didn't choose who your father was, and you had no choice in how he treated you as a child. He was the adult, it was up to him to set the example and correct boundaries.

If he is still trying to excuse his behavior by saying "you were a difficult or sensitive child" - then he has not owned up to his behavior.

We have another thread somewhere on here about "Forgiveness", I'll have to look up where it is. But basically most of us agreed, there is a big difference between forgiveness and condoning. You can forgive your fahter's behavior against you for your own peace of self wihout condoning what he put you through.

And, jut like an alcoholic, until he owns up to his own faults - he will never truly have peace with himself. You can't fix that for him. He will have to grow up on his own to do that.

Hi there B

You know, I just read somewhere, and it helped me, "We are all victims of victims. Our parents had informationd driven into them and made as much of a reform and functionality they could. Some had wonderful childhoods and parents and offer just that kind of hope as to what we can chose to have in our lives.

My childhood was painful and lonely. I know what my mother went through and my father was the provider. My reality at the time, which sustained me, was that I was adopted. And, too true, you do end up creating or at least there is a tendency to re-create in social and intimate relationships, groups and significant others who again, reproduce the feelings we endured back then. If you can break out of that, you've just grasped the golden ring. By far, leaving everything behind (which is what I did as well...walked away from everyone and everything that was bad for me) to start from the ground up!! Hooray for you!!!

There's an imagery excercise that does leaps and bounds of wonders, especially before sleep. We can program our dreams, actually - I call it back up support, even if at times they happen to be nighmares...rem's picking up the slack I guess.

It's called chording. You envision yourself with tenticles or chords coming out of you. One for each person which has an emotional hold on you. The radious of the chord would reflect just how much energy or emotion they take. Some chords will look like ropes, others like elongated but solid tree trunks. Imagine for every confrontation you give the chord, a twist or disruption in the attachment to you gives way. Eventually, an it may take days or weeks, the chord becomes severed. Once this happens envision healing green and white light sealing the crevice from where it was once attached so it can not re- attach. Check back in with your chords nightly just to support the healing energy that now becomes a part of you.

You're a brave woman. Never forget your source and healing beauty

Elleise
Clairvoyance editor

I love those trite sayings...sometimes it's the simplest ones that have the greatest impact on me. You're right I did not choose my family. I know truthfully I can't even begin to forgive him or move forward with him and make something of our "relationship" if he never says he's sorry sincerely for what he's done. I take responsibility for things I do wrong and make efforts to make them better and apologize for it, so I feel as though I can not respect my fathers attempts at being nice* because it's a cowards way.

I will try to find that thread on forgiveness too, it's something I have thought about a lot, but not sure how to do it, or how to attempt to do it...where do you begin?

I want so badly to make it all go away for good, but I know you're right, deep down this feeling and childhood can't be earased completely and it's the only childhood I have. Part of me believes I'd maybe never be this person I love now if it wasn't for the childhood I had...perhaps I wouldn't be such a feminist at heart, or so sensitive (I love that I am now) and have the ability to sense others pain and and up an aloof and cold girl. Who knows...I guess I feel as though if I knew that answer I'd know if I am who I am on my own or somehow thru this horrible pain I became who I am. I struggle with the idea of how my origination point isn't good and was abusive and how I can move from that to love.

I am not my father but I am my fathers daughter and that scares me.

Ever since I was very young I remember telling myself constantly, "Remember this Jack, don't ever forget what this was like, hold onto your child-like thinking and reasoning" I never wanted to forget because I never wanted to repeat his behaviors and something told me at a very young age, children DO KNOW what is right and wrong they are so much smarter than "adults" make them out to be.
Being a good mother has been a dream of mine ever since I can remember so being as "proactive" as I can be to change my behaviors and tendancies I feel need work on and end the cycle of abuse is my daily focus literally, there is nothing more important to me, my future family depends on it I feel. Now as I am getting golder and my boyfriend and I discuss our own family more and more I become more fearful that I too will hurt my children somehow. Do any of you feel that way or struggle with your children now? I am someone who, when I didn't know the proper way to behave (due to poor socail skills as I never really "fit in") I would observe others whom I felt were respectable and good and I would mirror them until the behavior felt natural, now as I think of becoming a parent I look for those that inspire me and those I can admire and look up to for guidance on how to be, as a good mother and good person. Does anyone have children now and find themselves teetering back and forth between being a good parent and being abusive sometimes? Do you think this idea of mirroring the good parents is a qay to not repeat the cycle? Are there other techniques I can use to stop the cycle?

Elleise,

Thank you for your reply. That saying, "we are all victims of victims" WOW. So very true and that is where I guess I draw up compassion and reason for not wanting to pain my father now...he was a victim too, a child of abuse and pain. He never confided this in me, however I knew my fathers mother (my grandmother) and she was a cold, mean woman who even as a young kid I remember thinking what a bad lady, I don't like her. My father would never join in when others in the family spoke out about her behavior (unlike my grandmother, my father hid his badness)and in fact he'd defend her, after all, she was his mother, his compassion for his own mother is so familiar, yet I'd never defend what my father did or give excuses, yes, he was abused but as an adult we CHOOSE who we are and how we treat people. He had the choice and he chose wrong.

On a happier note, I comend you for "starting from the ground up" I celebrate my freedom and "birth" of my new life this July! It is a time of reflection for me and I have big plans for my future.

That imagery exercise sounds terrific and I plan to illustrate on paper my chords and people and use that to also help me visualize. I am just begining meditation pratice and this imagery can also be used in my meditation, I feel I could draw a lot of strength from that sort of exercise...Thank You for that.

I really feel for you, b the change. It takes me days to find the right fathers and mothers day cards that don't say things like "you're the best mom in the world", or "you were always there for me and I wouldn't be half the person I am today..." etc. Those cards make me feel sick with sadness, envy, regret. But I'm really lucky now that I have the most amazing in-laws, who have actually taken me so much into their hearts that I now feel the parental love that I never had growing up. I'm also grateful that I now have real role models to look up to for when we start our own family.

I can so identify with what you are saying about wanting to actively prevent any sort of abuse creeping in to your own relationship with your eventual child. I think about that every day. I had extreme rage as a child too and I know the feeling of how out of control that rage can be and how much damage one could do. But I have developed very good self control over the years. I know that I will do my utmost to never give in to any temptation to harm my child in any way - physically or verbally. If I do accidentally say or do something that causes hurt, I know will be able to apologise and try to help my child understand that I still love them and that it's not their fault.

I went through a difficult, but helpful, time last year - there is a thread about it on here called "Adult children of abusive families". I'm not one for confrontation, and I was actually looking for the kind of "relationship" where we could just let all the issues go and just have a superficial, polite relationship, as if between relatives who are strangers. I did actually confront my mother many years ago, but got no apology, just the excuse that her father beat her, therefore she found it necessary to discipline me too.

I wish I'd thought to say then that this is rubbish. There is no excuse. If you have been through abuse, then you KNOW what it feels like. How can you make any other human being feel that way, knowing what you know? I remember my feelings from every moment of abuse in my childhood - my husband thinks it's bizarre that I remember so much, but it is because I held onto it. I now know the reason I held that pain so close - so that I will remember what it felt like and never do or say those same things to my own children. I believe I will be a good mother, because I remember so vividly what a child sees and thinks. I believe I will be able to understand my children so much more easily than many other people do, because of my own memories. I know why children do what they do, because I remember what I was thinking when I did things that were considered "naughty", etc.

Something that has really helped me in the past year is a belief that I have a higher self - this is the part of me who is nothing to do with my parents. I believe that my parents created my body, but my essence comes from my higher self. And my higher self is pure, untainted and untouched by my parents' and grandmother's poisons. I don't know if it is in any way true, but it really helps me to think this way. My true essence by-passes their genes. I know I will not repeat their abuse because who I truly am has nothing to do with them. My physical self has been hurt by them, but they cannot and could not touch my true self.

More recently, I was dreading making a phone call to each of them. I felt really bad and guilty because it had been a while since I spoke to each of them. Suddenly I found myself realising that I am not a bad person because I battle to speak to them. I am not a bad person because I procrastinate about making those phonecalls. And I am not a bad person because I can't like my parents and grandmother, because of what they did to me.

I hope some of this can help you too.

Elle,

--I remember my feelings from every moment of abuse in my childhood - my husband thinks it's bizarre that I remember so much, but it is because I held onto it. I now know the reason I held that pain so close - so that I will remember what it felt like and never do or say those same things to my own children. I believe I will be a good mother, because I remember so vividly what a child sees and thinks. I believe I will be able to understand my children so much more easily than many other people do, because of my own memories. I know why children do what they do, because I remember what I was thinking when I did things that were considered "naughty", etc. --

I have to admit, I am overwhelmed with happiness at the fact that another person in this world actually thought nearly the exact same thing I have. What a wonderful feeling of...not being alone. I too feel as though my memories and insight into that child world of thought at every age will help me relate to my children one day and hopefully see things before they happen so that I can be the mom I want so badly want to be. I remember things from when I was 2 years old...very vivid, colorful, detailed memories, and my spouse too thinks this deep collection of memeories from even the young age of 2 is bizarre. I think sometimes he even probably thinks that I can't possibly remember things like that...but I can. Now as I hope to be a good mother one day I am thankful that I have this gift.

As for your wonderful in-laws...that is terrific and just like you, my spouse's parents are amazingly wonderful and I look up to them both very much when it comes to being a good parent. I have opened up to his mother about my fathers abuse etc, but not fully 100%. His father and I have begun a slowly growing relationship and becoming closer too. I find that it is hard for me to get comfortable with his father sometimes as I have overpowering feels of...I don't know how to explain it...like I just don't know how to act around him??? Does that make sense, do you get that? Like I've never really been around a Dad who wasn't being mean and critical most of the time, like comstantly cutting down my every idea or thought or hope or whatever. His Dad is nice and it's a bit unsettling for me because sadly it's just not what I'm used to...so this is where I go through the motions until it feels normal and good. Soemtimes I want to tell his Dad about my childhood because I feel like maybe he thinks I act "weird" and so I want to "explain" myself to him so he understands and doesn't just chalk it up to something else or take me personally. I find I want to "explain" myself a lot...Sometimes I feel like abused children have been "shorted" in life, as though we didn't get a fair "start" to life and being a normal child and having normal adult interactions on the social end of things and so I want to tell people "hey, I'm really a nice person, I just don't know how to act around you cause I was abused and now I'm trying to move past that"...but of course I don't do that. I don't have any real unusual behaviors or anything really, I actually pass as a pretty normal person most times, but inside, inside I don't always feel normal, lots of times I feel like I'm just barely doing this hire wire act of confidence and any minute now I might just loose it all...any minute my expression of self assured coolness will crumble before you and everyone will see..see the pain, the past, the truth...they'll think things and judge me, judge my family, my father and...well there it is...my fear, my fear of people knowing what I've been through, what I've felt, judging my father as an all bad guy because of what he's done to me and my family. I think as if people can see the abuse as clearly on the outside as they are on the inside...I know really they can't see, but I feel naked, like it's obvious.

**there is a thread about it on here called "Adult children of abusive families".**

That was the first thing I read when I came to this site...when I read the title of the thread my heart leapt and I actually had
hope that maybe, just maybe I have found something, some resource that might help me with my past, when I began reading the thread I realized these people were just like me and for the first time I didn't feel alone with these feelings...we're not alone. Ever since, I joined bellaonline, and Ive been reading every thread I find interesting, there is so much here, what a wonderful place!!! YAY!

***Suddenly I found myself realizing that I am not a bad person because I battle to speak to them. I am not a bad person because I procrastinate about making those phonecalls. And I am not a bad person because I can't like my parents and grandmother, because of what they did to me.***

I too struggle with that. Deep down I know, that isn't my fault, it's only normal to Not want to speak to those that hurt you, let you down big time and generally make you feel bad. But still I feel like as a "good child" I "should" call...that must be the abuse talking! LOL ahhh got laugh sometimes... Just another challenge to overcome, rise above and maybe even begin to help others do the same.
~Namaste

You are not alone. I'm glad you've found a place where you can work through your feelings and come to terms with your childhood.

I do understand the feeling of not knowing how to act around people - I get that with anyone who reminds me of a member of my family, in mannerisms or voice, or even just looks. It can take me a while to not be defensive around that person.

My in-laws were there to support me last year when I went to visit my family, and I spoke a lot to my m-i-l, with the understanding that she would be giving my f-i-l a summary of the conversation. Maybe you can do that, speak to your m-i-l about passing on the message that if you're behaving strangely it is not because of your f-i-l?

I find it hard to talk about my feelings to men, even my husband, but a lot easier to open up to women. I don't know why that is. So although my f-i-l and I chat a lot because we have many common interests, we don't have the deep talks that I have with my m-i-l. And that's fine; I know he understands me anyway, and I enjoy the relationship I have with both of them immensely. They are my family now.

Hugs to you.

B,

Thank you for sharing your story. I too am a survivor and you described things that I believe are such normal feelings to have.

I'm 38 and at about your age I decided to finally keep my father out of my life. After years of asking him to go to therapy with me and admit and atone for things he did and him refusing, I just couldn't handle being in his presence any more. I felt like I was being asked to lie by my entire family every time I was near. It was exhausting emotionally and physically.

I think someone brought up the subject of forgiveness versus condoning. The first few years of therapy I was with therapists who kept hammering forgiveness in my head. It wasn't until I started seeing a therapist who made it okay for me to angry at my father that I actually started to heal.

To be fair to the other therapists, they reminded me so much of the denial that was going on in my family about the abuse and that is why I think it was so hard to relate to "forgiveness," a word that was used like a weapon in my family. I just believe that forgiveness is very personal and we should all deal with it in our own time. When others start to preach at us about it, I believe they are exhibiting their own fears.

I still have problems with PTSD but have learned coping skills along the way. Sometimes, I really have to focus on the here and now even making it a mantra such as, "I am in my body right here, right now. I am adult and in control of my life. etc." This may sound strange to someone who hasn't been through this, but to a survivor, it is very common. It is actually keeping my abuser out my life that has diminished these symptoms greatly.

I could very much relate to you saying how you feel like you wear your childhood on your sleeve and the need to explain yourself to others. I wince sometimes at how I've "explained" myself to people as if my behavior was so strange that they needed an instruction manual to understand me. They didn't and were usually uncomfortable (but supportive) of my explaining myself. These experiences helped to teach me that I don't have some big tattoo on my forehead that says "victim." It was just how I was feeling.

I'm so happy that you have a supportive husband. It is such a treasure. It is a long road to recovery and you have taken the first steps by exerting your independence. You will do what you need to do in your own time. You have already broken the cycle of abuse by being honest about it. I think you would make a wonderful mother.

Much of what you all have written rings a clear and ominous bell with me. I was a victim of abuse from my mother, both verbal and physical. Her family knew about the abuse and yet no one ever came to my aid. It was just "accepted."

Let me say here that I came from a well-to-do family and that my mother was college-educated. I only state this to show that abuse covers all strata of socio-economics. Society seems to feel that abusive behavior is limited to poverty and illiteracy-that is so not the case.

My life changed drammatically when my father got custody of me at the age of twelve and I learned kindness and care from him and my stepmother.

It is amazing though how PTSD can affect you years later. I was watching some commentary on TV about children and summer fun and I had to turn it off. My childhood summers were forever scarred by abuse and, as B says, that little innocent girl who was me, died a long time ago.

I also had a tremendous amount of rage in me. I distanced myself from my mother's family and haven't seen these "collaborators in abuse" for years. Without them in my life, I was able to begin a new life.

B you can begin a new life and reinvent living.

Thank you Trish and Kristen for your warm support and stories! It has been a strange last few days for me as the forum and members here have really opened my eyes to new possibilities of hope and living. I have a lot swirling around in my head now but I feel as though all of you have been there and I'm not alone with it anymore.

Kristen - My father too, is a well-to-do man, he owns his own business and makes good money, lives in a nice upscale neighborhood, he travels well and even participates in charity sailing events, etc. On the surface a wonderful, well rounded, well educated guy. But that is yet another part of him I struggle with...he has so much "good" to give to others but when it comes to his family he treats us with no respect. It's very hard for me to be in my fathers presence with his friends who all think he's super and wonderful and great, as it feels as though I am lying and hurting my "inner-child" just by being there and not saying anything...it's so sad to me that we the "victims" of abuse feel guilty, as though we did something wrong!!! Abuse affects us in so many ways and I thought I had a handle on it but I am just realizing how little I knew.

Why do we have shame? Why do the victims carry the shame? I believe my father deep down has shame too for what he's done...but I think that is something he will settle up with between himself and God one day, but probably not with me unless I confront him directly. I think I know how he feels, I know he has a tremendous amount of love for me and my brother, but I know he abused us and I can't forget that.

My twin brother is getting married this September and he and his fianc� (whom I adore) are running into several issues with my father now. I am staying out of it as I can not be the "protector" of my brother anymore, even though I have been in several circumstances where I so badly wanted to stand up for my brother but didn't because I knew it'd only lead me to ending our relationship earlier than I am ready to with my father. We're grown up now and my father and I have our own issues to deal with on our own level. My sister-in-law and I have talked about my father a lot and I've explained to her what the situation is like, she and I have bonded a lot over the issues and she is shocked to see this type of behavior yet, for her, coming from a "normal" happy, loving childhood up bringing, she too finds herself speechless and defenseless when my father says something short or disrespectful...he just has this tone in his voice and it's like you're so scared to say anything or challenge what's been stated.
We are all spectators sometimes and it's terrible. One day, when the feeling is right I may confront him, maybe sooner than I'd like as this wedding is really bringing up a lot of issues. I think about it a lot. I think of what I'd say to him, how I'd say it. What he'd say back and how it might all fall out in the end. I don't see a good or happy resolution, he's too "proud" a man to admit to this, he'd explain it away, blame me, want ME to take responsibility for it as if I brought it on myself, (NO CHILD DESERVES ABUSE) and as I said before it's not something I am going to stand for anymore.

My boyfriend and I have been talking about marriage a lot as we are building our first home together and we both feel as though that will be the next step for us once we've settled in and things calm down. We've been joking (sort of) about eloping...and when I mentioned this around my father one day, he glared at me and said in his abusive tone "Jacquelyn...you wouldn't DARE do that to me"...inside I shuttered with fear, but I also knew IT'S NOT HIS CHOICE ANYMORE! My getting married will probably be what tears us a part finally. It will probably bring all of this to a head and I will confront him and tell him he either changes his behavior, and how he treats me and shows me and my partner full respect OR THAT IS IT, I'm done.

I promised myself that my wedding would be meaningful and sacred and I would not let me father dictate anything to me...my getting married is like a symbolic ritual for me, expressing my separation from my parents as my immediate family and me creating my own new family...a non-abusive family. The cycle stops here. I have been making small comments here and there to my parents, like "I want you guys to enjoy my twin brothers wedding because I am not having a traditional big wedding when I get married" I am trying to ease them into what I have planned in my head but I'm sure it will be a fight and struggle and in the end, I will win...even if I loose my father for good over it.

The thought of him walking me down the isle is something I know he views as his �right� as my father, and the fathers dance with the bride...same thing. These two ideas make me want to scream, it's like fathers day times 10000! Everything in me says no, I don't want that, I want to walk down the isle alone or with my twin brother, I was willing to do those things for my father to just keep things calm and not fight but the more I think about it the less I am ok with it...I guess I'll have to face that when I get there.

Kristen - I am and have begun a new life slowly...four years ago I made major changes and decided it was time for me to live my own life and be happy. There is a wonderful freedom in deciding for yourself what your life is and where you want it to go, even if I am still compromising with my abusive disrespectful father. I wake up every morning and I have one word written on my mirror that reminds me of exactly that opportunity I have and EVERYONE HAS each day.

CHOOSE

It's very simple, but profound. Each day we get to CHOOSE for ourselves, who we'll be, how we treat people and how we let others treat us. I didn't get a choice growing up, but today I do get to CHOOSE. I love your saying "Let your dreams become your plans", that is sort of how I live each day, I go for those things I want so badly now because I CAN!!!!

One day I will be courageous enough to finally confront my father and finally allow myself the real healing I need, to REALLY 100% have FREEDOM from the secret of abuse. I do my best to squeeze every present moment for what its worth but the secret deep inside remains and shadows me sometimes. He needs that freedom too whether he knows it or not...all his good actions and over-compensating isn't getting him any closer to forgiveness for what he's done to me as a child, he needs to atone for his actions, only then will he be free of the past.

Sometimes I find myself wishing this forum was all from one state so that we could have a monthly get together and talk etc...this has been such a healing place for me, a place to face things and admit my feelings...very good, very hard, very sad, very real...Thanks to all of you who've shared and continue to share, you're helping others so much more than you know!!!

B,

You have a lot to be proud of in yourself.

As far your father walking you down the aisle, I would not do this myself. That role should be for a man who has truly acted like a father.

I have found that creating a new life was the best thing I could ever have done for myself. I also learned that I was not to blame for the behavior of adults.

Have you ever looked into the eyes of a child? They're so trusting and innocent. I looked into a little boy's eyes recently and the sweetness of his look overwhelmed me!

No one has the right to destroy childhood innocence. Remember that whenever you feel forgiving.

I think part of why victims carry the shame is because sex really is not separate from the soul in most people. Yes, we can learn to be that way, but naturally I believe sex means much more than just the physical.

So when that is torn from us, it tears a little bit of oiur soul, too. And that is where the shame comes in. Our body, mind, and spirit have been dirtied and torn - and that feels wrond and shameful. And, especially for little children, our parents are right so it must be us that is wrong.

It takes a lot of years and hard work to overcome these feelings. But it can be done.

Kristen,

When the time comes and I TELL my parents what we plan on doing for our wedding and how things will be, I will add at the end that my wish is for them to be able to enjoy and share in this very meaningful special moment in our lives and our future family and hopefully they can, without selfishness, respect our wishes as adults. I feel as though eloping always seems easier because I can go have the special wedding I want with just my husband, no asking "permission" to do what we want or having to cover issue after issue of this and that, fighting tooth and nail on each and ever part of the wedding, and then have that fight afterwards so as not to taint the day for me...I feel as if there is no escaping what horrible fight lies ahead for me and will be yet another moment and memory and special time in my life where my fathers presence will ruin it and take the happiness away because of his selfishness, lack of respect and abusive ways. All he'll care about is how it will "look" to the family why he didn't walk me down the isle...and how could I do such a thing to take away HIS right as my father!

Heck, he doesn't even have to be honest with them and explain why I chose to do that, and I know he wouldn't tell them anyway, but they can go on thinking that I am just an ungrateful daughter who is killing her poor father for not including him in the ceremony of his only daughter. Most of my family thinks that I was a "difficult" girl growing up, stubborn, etc, but what was REALLY going on was I was being abused. For the most part I think most of my family would do their best to explain why, oh, he didn't really mean it, or you know how his mother was, or whatever...funny how us victims don't like that, the trivializing of our childhood abuse, it's like a slap in the face after being beaten with the belt. There�s nothing that gets me going more than an uninformed/un-abused person passing judgment on your abuser as if they know they are such good people inside and would never really do things like that, we just need to "work" on things.
I know the truth, that's all that matters.
My partner and I have also decided to not accept anything from my parents whether it be money or anything else, my father would only use that as leverage and as a way of saying he has a say in it because he's helping pay for things, I would never take his money for my wedding. I was engaged once about five years ago and for the two years I was engaged my father never talked about it or mentioned anything to me, except to cause a fight only two days after my engagement when I found my wedding dress...he and I fought for days over it, I decided to buy the dress myself and move on (it was only $250 and he said I was making a big mistake by buying such and expensive dress!), he ignored me after that completely when it came to the wedding. This is when I was still living at home and he and I weren't "speaking" anyway. He just assumes that he'll get to do these things one day...just show up after all the work has been done and "play the perfect dad". I feel as if he has no idea that I even think of this every day or how he has this huge shock coming.

"To thyne own self be true"...my motto. At my wedding, I will be the woman I've always admired, the strong beautiful girl who no matter who is against her stands up for herself and what is right and fair. I will free myself of the guilt of being a daughter to an abusive selfish father and create a new bond of love and support...That is my dream and hope for myself one day and I work very hard at making myself believe this can be done.

I would still want for my parents to be at my wedding, especially my mother as she isn't abusive, just weak and passive, and I love my mother dearly. But if he can't come and "be quiet" then I guess I will start the detachment process and really invest myself in a new life, without my father.

Every time I see a child I smile and my insides just light up. There is something about seeing children in their innocence, their own little world of wonder that could keep me captivated for hours...to me there is nothing more precious and nothing that should be more protected. Children are a true gift. Kristen, I know exactly what you mean.

Michelle,
I have never been sexually abused, except for a small "kissing" incident my mother told me about with a teenage boy who lived on our street and who's sister used to babysit us when I was four, which I have no real memory of. However, I still feel as though the sweet innocence lost is simmilar. That innocence I had before my father made me realize that there is alot more to the world than just sand boxes and play grounds and wonderfull dreams of being a princess something like that...he disciplined out of anger and kept us inline with fear...he was verbally abusive and broke us down. I felt like a hostage, like a vigilant survivor...There were "good times" sometimes, sometimes there were a few quiet hours...but the unspoken truth of the last abusive session was in the air and the tenseness was thick. I lost that carefree feeling, that childlike innocence, like theres nothing bad in the world, back when I had NO WORRY, NO ANXIETY...he took that from me, my childhood.

I guess I feel like a "participant". Like I knew it was wrong and I should have stopped it, or confronted it...and I did try but he was too powerful, I was young...
I know, and most of my immediate family, aunts, uncles, cousins, family freinds...no one knows so it feels like a dirty bad secret. I feel like I can't be the whole free me because of this secret thats never been let out...whether I want it to be or not, my abused childhood past is part of me...and that is where my shame grows. It's a part of me.

I am healing slowly though, sometimes going forward, sometimes going back...it's a process but even though my brain tells me, I have nothing to be ashamed of, it wasn't my fault, its not me...my heart and soul feel differently, there's a sorrow I think only those who have been abused understand, being hurt by your parent that way is unimaginable.

Sorry B, I may have been projecting a little bit...

Michelle, No need to apologize, I knew what you meant, I'm so sorry that you've been through such pain.

I just saw a news report today that was discussing whether or not a child molester/sexual abuser should get the death penatly. They argued that because it did not "kill" someone, that the death penalty should not be a punishment. Then they had a psychologist "expert" type guy who said the difference with a sexual abuse offender is that they destroy the child, and the child has to endure the pain every single day of their lives, and they say that, that is worse than killing.

My husband and I paid for our own wedding too, and I know we prevented an enormous amount of pain, arguments, etc, for ourselves. I presume that my parents were grateful because they were in dire financial straits at the time, so it was a great excuse, but I wouldn't have accepted anything even if they'd been wealthy. My hubby's parents did secretly contribute to our honeymoon, though, and they also lent us a sum towards our house deposit. I have no problem with that at all, but I was never going to give my parents the slightest bit of leverage when it came to our wedding.

Ironically, my mother herself then chose not to be involved at all. I was feeling "forgiving" at the time, and I approached her and her best friend with my dress ideas, and there seemed to be a pre-arranged signal between them because her friend got a bit embarrassed and very swiftly changed the subject. It was weird.

So, my mother-in-law took me shopping for fabric. My two "best women" went with me to meet the dressmaker. I went alone to most of the fittings. I went alone to the hairdresser. My friends helped me dress on the day, and the first time my mother even saw the dress was as I was walking down the aisle.

Which brings me to walking down the aisle itself. I had a brain wave. I didn't want my father "giving me away" as if he owned me. So I visualised all the parents walking down the aisle - hubby with his, me with mine. Then I got brave and I offered the idea to both sides that we swap parents as a sort of symbolic gaining of new family (although I dislike the idea that you marry someone's family). They all loved the idea! So we ended up with my hubby walking down with my parents either side of him, and then me with his parents either side. It really made such a huge difference to the way I felt. We wrote our own ceremony, so there was no "who gives this woman" or promising to obey sort of thing.



I've never liked the word "forgive", so I don't force myself to think in those terms. I just choose to "let go" instead, and not hold on too much to the hurt. "Release" is another nice word. None of that has anything to do with the other person, and doesn't suggest condoning what happened.



I relate to that very much. It certainly doesn't sound strange to me.

amys' law do not applie to men. women abuse there husbands and boyfriends to go watch snapped its all there

Elle,
I so relate to the part about the word forgive. I think it is "overused." Some therapists as Trish has stated hammer forgiveness into your head. I had a similar experience with a therapist who told me I had to forgive my mother for abusing me.

I dropped that therapist and found a holistic healer who told me I had a perfect right to be angry and that if I forgave my abuser it meant that I was saying that what was done to me was perfectly acceptable. I was then told how to heal my damaged spirit and to love the child in me who had been abused.

The focus was on me learning how to help myself overcome the abuse.

Forgiveness is a difficult concept. I was finally able to forgive my mother for a lifetime of abuse when I was able to understand where she was coming from and what made her the way she was. I didn't fully come to this until after she died, though, mainly because I didn't get a vital piece of information until her funeral. And it still took years. But I finally realized that holding onto the anger only hurt me, and letting go of it healed me. She was beyond my help, even when she was alive, and I began to feel sorry for her and the miserable life she condemned herself to live.

None of this means that I condone what she did, or that I think she had any right to behave the way she did. But she had lost the power to make me suffer.

I think the word "forgiveness" is hard for any of us to use because it has the word "give" in it...and didn't we all "give" enough already? Not that I have anything against those who find peace that way..."To thyme own self be true" but I have never found any comfort or peace in that "exact" word.

Elle, "release" and "let go" are definitely two words I use a lot to find some healing. "Letting go" of painful thoughts and �releasing� the tears and the pain, and just having a moment where I feel the pain deeply and "release" it, as I was unable to do as a child, I find all of those things are very helpful to my healing process. In yoga (I have a steady practice now for five years ) I do things like meditation and �release� and �let go� and I find that my physical being is very strongly connected to my emotional being�for example, when I�ve had a good session of letting go and releasing past pain emotionally, later that night while practicing yoga, I will find that once where I felt built up pain and tightness in my hips (for example) now they are more �open� and more flexible�the pain I was �holding� there in my physical body has released a little�it really is all connected in an amazing way! I feel as an adult now, I can be the healthy adult in my "inner child�s" life and when she cries over her abuse, I am there to hold her and reassure her and tell her good things about herself to make her stronger and become more whole inside...I give that to myself now and I find it very healing. I "talk to myself" internally a lot about what happened as I was my only real witness to my childhood abuse; I was my own best friend. I think many of us, who went through such things as children as a survival mechanism become our own friends inside, and console ourselves and do what we need to do for ourselves to find peace and comfort, how ever we can. After all, our parents weren't providing this for us, so who else could/would?

I was seeing a psychologist for a while who didn't want to "dwell" on my past too much or talk too much about it because she said it kept me from "living" in the present moment. In a small way she was right, when I am really reliving past events, I'm not totally in the "present" moment but I feel that it's good for me to come to terms with it, I feel as though it's a natural process for us to think back on things, now with our adult minds and logic and try to "re-evaluate", or "make sense of" what happened and form even stronger opinions of things and "back up" our memories so to speak. I find it helps me to recall bad events because sometimes I let myself forget for a while and just let things be, as if nothing happened, it's a nice mental break sometimes, but eventually, inevitably my mind remembers how it was and what happened and how you can't pretend it didn't happen, if you do, I feel as though your really setting yourself up to possibly repeat the abuse, and carry on the cycle...Awareness and Honesty are two key factors in stopping the cycle, if you are always aware of your behavior then you can change it if it's not ok, and if your totally honest about it, if you did begin to become abusive, you'd be able to correct it right away and not go down that road.
Also as adult survivors of child abuse, we can now make good healthy decisions of what we want to do for our families and how we want to raise our own kids...I feel like now before I have children I can look back over my abuse and assess what was wrong and how it could be handled differently, etc.

Has anyone heard of or watch the TV shows, Nanny 911 or Supernanny or Trading Spouses Meet Your New Mommy? What I really love about these shows is what you can take from them. It's a great resource into parenting 101...it's an opportunity, a unique opportunity to "see" into other families lives and see how even those mom's and dad's who THINK they're doing "such a great job" and the reason the NEED Nanny 911 to SAVE them is because they believe their kids are the REAL PROBLEM, not them! Soon enough you discover how their "bad parenting skills" for whatever reason was "bringing out" all the children�s' bad behaviors and how the way they disciplined their kids was sometimes, abusive or borderline neglect, etc. What is interesting to see is that when the Nanny sits down with the parents after her initial "observation period" she begins to address the issues, that to the viewers at home seem SO obvious, yet these parents are, 9 times out of 10, shocked, offended, they are HURT to think they are HURTING their kids, or not handling things the right way, they thought they were doing a pretty good job! It's Very interesting to me also because we get to see how when you begin a family, usually we are all caught up in our own little lives, we exist in a �vacuum like world� where we come and go, seeing the same people and doing the same things day in and day out. It's so easy to fall into abusive ways or NOT REALLY SEE how things REALLY are, its very hard to take a step back and see it from an outside perspective . When does a parent ever decide ok, things have been pretty bad lately, lets' sit down and "take stock" in what we're doing, what's working and what�s not. ??? They usually NEVER do this and so, there the parents are, going along thinking they are these great parents and their kids are just "out of control" and they have nothing to do with it...
Now don't get me wrong, it's not always like this, sometimes one parent is very aware and other isn�t etc, but I find this show to be such a great resource into other alternative ways to discipline a kid in a HEALTHY way, and how to provide an environment that is conducive to good happy healthy balanced behavior. We are all scarred from abuse and carry different things with us. Sometimes we will lack the basic skills needed to raise healthy kids and provide a healthy environment, sometimes we focus so strongly on just not "hitting" or "sexually abusing" that all the other basic fundamentals of a healthy childhood get lost...and that is still "abusive" in some ways, and if not abusive at the very least...unhealthy. Will, and sheer determination will not make us healthy parents alone.
Just though I'd bring up those shows as they make me feel like I can take "real life" courses in how not to parent and ways to parent and what kids really need to grow up healthy and secure. They give so many techniques etc and you can take from it or leave what you like/don't like.

Elle, the idea of your in-laws walking you down the isle was great, I loved it! Way to make lemonade out of lemons! I bet you felt good and secure and happy walking down the isle and THAT is how I want to feel when I get "walked" down the isle. I never liked the idea of my father "giving me away" either, what a twisted thought right?!, I feel like that is so "fathers day" again, NOT OK, so against what I feel inside...so I hope I am able to somehow, peacefully or not so peacefully, however my father DECIDES and CHOOSES how to be with it, and have my twin brother walk me down the isle...and it's not just to spite my father as he would say...it's really meaningful to me because my twin brother and I were brought into this world together and grew up together and now we are beginning our own families and so I feel as though it's the right thing to do...he's been the "Man" in my life...he's always amazed me growing up, whenever I'd have a fight with a boyfriend or was upset he'd console me and tell me, I'm not alone and he was there for me...things my father never said, but made all the difference in the world, I feel as though it would be very special for my brother too, as long as my father doesn't �emotionally blackmail� him into not doing it, for both our sakes I hope he just stays out of it and lets my brother do that for me. That�s the tricky part of all of this too, I feel as though my brother and mother are still somewhat �emotional hostages� of my fathers behavior and power and that can still hurt me even if I�ve moved on and started my own new happy life.
Claybird, what you wrote in your last post about that fact that she had �lost her power� to make you suffer�that gives me so much hope. I yurn for the day when my fathers presence doesn�t twist me up inside or make me feel defensive and tense.
One time when I had been practicing very strongly my yoga, I was going three to four times a week and was on a mission if you will to reach a certain level of peace inside with these things�and for a while I found it, it was like this amazing time in my life, a window of time where I felt as though I looked out onto the world from such a place of love and peace and acceptance that I felt no malice or anger or rage, I was at peace�and just as fast as I realized this, and tried to hold on to it�it slipped away and I was �human� once again. Nothing so far has ever done what yoga has done for my healing, except finding this site and talking to all of you wonderful souls. Yoga is my path, and is my way to find peace and love and with my course set for those two things I feel as though I have a good chance at becoming the person I want to be.

hello. you are not alone..i too grew up with a family like yours,but i was sexually abused by my father.human services were involed in much of my life.my father passed on 4 years ago and ive went to his grave maybe five times. i did not love him anymore and i care for my mother but not sure i love her. she admitts her abusive ways in my upbringing but it doesnt help.i still have anger and mistrust towards both of my parents.and it affected how i raised my children.which was not very well. my children are now grown and im now 41 years old with much remorse for my children.i have grand children whom i love very much and thats finally where the abuse stopped.i would never hurt them.my tough life made me experience bad relationships and now im a better person for it i think.i now value life in ways my parents never could and still dont.life is what we make it dont dweel on the past it will eat you up just be a better person than they were and you'll do fine ,good luck.

B, I am so sorry to hear of what you endured as a child. I noticed in your first post that you seperated the word, 'survivor.' Survivors of physical abuse heal faster than those of emotional and mental abuse. Sometimes it becomes clear that although we survived, we have not healed. Have we survived physically? Have we survived mentally and emotionally? Please know that it is normal to be triggered by our past abuses. You mentioned that when your dad calls and is angry, it brings up a lot for you from your abusive past. I also understand those triggers very clearly. I experienced the same thing.

You will also go through periods where it seems as though the flashbacks and triggers just won't stop. However, there will be days when you feel you are soaring in your process to heal. This is also normal, in my understanding.

Please know that you are welcomed to come to the forums and post as much as you would like. As you have witnessed, there are so many supportive people here.

Amazing advice, Elle. I need that advice also. I'm in the same situation with both of my parents.

I have chosen to stop contact with my parents and my sister who is very close to them. as long as i continue to endure abuse from them i can not get well. they keep me confused and hurt. it hinders my ability to be a happy single mom. i have fibromyalgia which is aggravated by stress. i have agoraphobia and social panic disorders all steming from being battered. I want to grow. I want to live free from this prison theyve created. im walking thru the doors....lol. im scared. but ive made a decision to go for it!!!!

freemenow,
Good for you!!! You deserve to be free from the abuse! I'm so proud of you for making that decision to walk through those doors towards healing!

thanks Kelli! thanks for being here!!