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#413383 04/30/08 10:47 PM
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matclan Offline OP
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Hi Jim,

I am new to this site and glad I found it. I was recently diagnosed with Hashimoto's. I went to my doc and she didn't put me on anything cause my other thyroid tests were good. I was experiencing some weird symptoms at the time and wondered if they were related to my thyroid. My symptoms were: muscle twitching, shaking internally, burning sensations in the hands and feet and sometimes jerking. I got an MRI of the brain and spine cause I thought I had MS. Both came back clear. I'm 44 and female,by the way. Well the doc said shaking is common but not the rest. So I thought I was crazy until I read about the peripheral neuropathies-I"m a bad speller-relating to the thyroid from a article on here. I was so relieved to finally have an answer to why my body was doing this. I am also low on the adrenals and currently working on that.
I have two questions for you. One is do you have those symptoms and did I read the article correctly that they do relate to the thyroid? And the other is can medicine get rid of them?
One more (sorry I lied) can your thyroid have anything to do with your bladder? I've been fighting my thyroid for 2 to 3 years and I think it did a number on my bladder. I now have Interstitial Cystitis and I'm working on that as well.
Yep I'm pretty screwed up. Any advice would be great.
matclan

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Hi matclan,

Welcome to the forum.
Yes, I experience a degree of peripheral neuropathy symptoms and mine can be affected by levels of physical activity and stress. I feel this is due to the effect these type things have on thyroid hormone levels. We have a set amount of thyroid hormone supplied through medication (hormone therapy), rather than it being regulated minute-by-minute by the pituitary and thyroid gland, therefore I believe we can feel those hormone fluctuations. The tremor symptom will affect my hands for example, quite often but the numbness & tingling in my hands and feet, can happen at night in bed, regardless of the position I sleep in. I can also experience other neuro symptoms intermittently, like tinnitus and a strange senstive feeling on the top of my head, like a nerve soreness (hard to describe).
Here's a quote from just about the most reputable source possible, the "National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke":

"Systemic diseases � disorders that affect the entire body �often cause peripheral neuropathy. These disorders may include: Metabolic and endocrine disorders. ...
Hormonal imbalances can disturb normal metabolic processes and cause neuropathies. For example, an underproduction of thyroid hormones slows metabolism, leading to fluid retention and swollen tissues that can exert pressure on peripheral nerves."


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Last edited by Jimlow - Thyroid Health; 06/15/08 04:34 PM.

Jim Lowrance
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In regard to a thyroid-bladder connection, fluctuations in thyroid hormone (up or down) can potentially cause frequent urination and I've corresponded with people whose doctors told them their urinary tract was experiencing inflammation due to their highly elevated thyroid antibody levels. Other than this I don't know of other connections but some of the members here may be able to comment further.


Jim Lowrance
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Here are some medical articles that associate peripheral neuropathy with thyroid disorders:

"Thyroid neuropathy
Little is known about thyroid neuropathy, but studies have shown microvascular and endoneurial ischemic involvement like that in diabetes."
(Fernando Dangond, MD, Associate Neurologist, Brigham and Women's Hospital; Assistant Professor, Department of Neurology, Harvard Medical School)

www.emedicine.com/neuro/TOPIC214.HTM

"The prevalence and characteristics of polyneuropathy were assessed using standard clinical and electrophysiological criteria in 39 consecutive outpatients with primary hypothyroidism, 15 of whom were previously untreated....
Using standard electrophysiological criteria, a definite diagnosis of polyneuropathy was made in 28 cases (72%). The commonest sites of abnormal nerve conduction were the sensory nerves, especially the sural nerve. Polyneuropathy was generally mild."
(PubMed)

www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1031603

Last edited by Jimlow - Thyroid Health; 06/11/08 03:19 PM.

Jim Lowrance
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matclan Offline OP
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Thanks Jim for the info!! I went to my thyroid doc today to do the tests you suggested elsewhere and she actually agreed that the thyroid could cause my weird symptoms. She also said that they can't be fixed. I disagree with that cause I'm not a quitter. I'll research until I find a way to fix them. I read a lot about B12 and how it can fix neuropathies. I already started on the sublinguals. I'm also looking into accupuncture.

So you still are experiencing the neuropathies? I'm a little afraid if I don't get on some medication those N's will get worse. I wonder if with Hashimoto's it's better to get rid of the thyroid so my body stops creating those antibodies that might be playing havos on other parts of my body-the nerves, bladder. What do you think? I also wonder if the doc would have treated me in the beginning when I didn't have Hashi's if I could have avoided all the other junk. Oh well too late for that.
Sue

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matclan,

I can say that my neuro symptoms improved with thyroid hormone therapy but still occur intermittently in mild phases.
What your Dr. is likely pointing out, is the fact that the disease itself has no cure, we can only be treated for the thyroid hormone imbalance it causes.
Doctors usually will not opt to refer a patient for a thyroidectomy, except in last resort cases. Surgeries carry risks and Dr.s avoid them when a treatment can instead be administered. If a Hashimoto's patient has a problem with not being able to be leveled out on hormone therapy and their ongoing blood retests for monitoring their treatment show continual wide fluctuations in the thyroid hormone levels (normal to hypothyroid) on a set dose, they sometimes resort to thyroidectomies in these cases. Even more extreme cases when a Hashimoto's patient, also has the antibodies that causes Grave's Disease (TSI) and they go from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid, then back again, they might opt to remove this patient's thyroid but might first try a treatment called "block & replace". It's a relatively new treatment and still considered experimental in some medical circles but Dr.s like to try everything before referring a patient for surgery.
I've gotten angry enough at symptoms at times that I wanted my thyroid ripped out as well and you'd be surprized at how many patients have contemplated it but most of us will just have to accept the results we get from hormone replacement therapy, which is often not perfect and sometimes even a little dissapointing but far better than no treatment.


Jim Lowrance
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matclan Offline OP
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Thanks again Jim. I know my doc doesn't want to do the surgery so thats not an option right now. I get my test results back in a week. I'm going to write back with them. Funny how I want your opionion more than just hers. I'm always getting a second...maybe that's why my medical bills are so high-ha ha.
Sue

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matclan,

Many patients get second opinions not only on diagnosis but in regard to their treatment, to see if a second qualified doctor believes it is being administered properly. I feel it's even more important to do that when treatment doesn't yield the results you feel it should.
If you post your lab results, list the reference ranges too and let us know how long you were on your current dose when the blood draw was done. I enjoy discussions on lab results because it helps us all to gain education on the subject.


Jim Lowrance
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It's a pity that BRT (block and replace) is considered new and experimental. It's been used in Europe and Japan IIRC for years.
Since it is unfortunately so uncommon here, anyone contemplating it had better research it very carefully before a dr. starts it. As used for Graves Disease, patients are started at a pretty high dose of anti thyroid drug, with a gentle reduction, then thyroid hormone replacement is introduced. The idea is to allow the thyroid to rest and heal long term, like 3 or more years.

The problem is that drs. are inexperienced with anti thyroid drugs (ATDs), as 80% of endos recommend nuking the thyroid for hyperthyroidism. This renders the patient hypo for life (so theoretically endos should have at least be good at using thyroid hormone replacement, right ;-).
Endos are incorrectly leery of ATDs because of possible bad reactions. They are very uncommon, and when they do occur are often due to drs. inappropriate dosing and management.

Anyway, cheers to BRT and good luck finding a skilled and experienced doc, or at least one willing to learn.

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Fayge,

Some sources I've read on, over the past few years, pointed out that higher success in the UK, Japan and other countries (I believe I remember Spain being mentioned) is because they know better how to administer BRT. Some people who read about the treatment, don't realize it can take 3 to 5 years to complete it.
It's my understanding that U.S. doctors sometimes start the replacement part of the treatment sooner than they should, without allowing the ATD to complete it's job.
According to some of these sources I've read, the treatment is recommended less often and is still going to take some time for doctors here to work toward perfecting it on a wider scale. Once they do, it may become a more accepted treatment protocal for Hashi/Grave's combo patients.


Jim Lowrance
Thyroid Health
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