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Joined: Jan 2004
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BellaOnline Editor
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BellaOnline Editor
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 22,934
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We do actively alert trolls that we are watching them and - if they persist - we ban them from the system. There is a process that trolls go through. I think the MNK area has only one real troll which is mild, all things considering smile The pagan forums had an extremely persistent troll who literally signed up for 20 accounts in a row - we would ban one, he would create another. We would ban his IP address, he would log in from a new server. So in comparison your troll is easier to get a handle on.

I will be meeting with the MNK editor tonight to discuss some options of how we can make it more obvious for non-MNK members to realize "where they are" when they come in here. I think when a Christian ends up in a pagan forum they realize it right away and know not to proselytize there (except for trolls of course). I think it's not nearly as obvious when a parent ends up here, exactly the nature of the forum they're in, which leads to confusion.

We will come up with a number of ideas to make this a more pleasant, happy community for everybody.

I wanted to add that I think this forum does a WORLD of good and the very fact that some people are "surprised" when they come in here really goes to show how incredibly needed this forum is. While most Christians know about pagans, and certainly Democrats know about Republicans, I don't think most parents honestly know anything about people who choose not to have kids. Parents tend to surround themselves with friends who have kids because their lives often revolve around their kids. The thoughts expressed here are simply never even remotely in their consciousness.

So I think, if we can work this out properly, that this forum will be HUGELY powerful not just to support MNK supporters, but to help explain to parents *why* many people choose to be MNK. That in turn should mean they are more accepting of MNK people they talk to - which means MNK peoples' lives are easier - and our world becomes a happier place to live.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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Shark
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Okay, I have to jump in here. I've resisted posting because I thought someone might be offended. So, basically, I'm sensoring myself because someone who disagrees with the basic premise of being CF might happen by and find it distressing. That's even worse than the "disclaimers" all over this board.

I enjoy this board. It has a lot of intelligent, insightful people that treat others with respect even when disagreeing. If we do not debate, we cannot expand our knowledge and experiences. I have yet to see a post that is condemning ALL parents and children.

Most of us are just relating specific stories that we have encountered in our lives that irritate us. If we cannot feel free to post, what is the point of this forum?

Hopefully, we can go back to where we were before and have free and open discussion. If not, maybe it's time for me to move on.

Lisa, would you be so kind at to point us to the threads that have generated these complaints?

Joined: Sep 2007
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Gecko
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To be perfectly honest I'm not here to educate/enlighten/satisfy the curiosity of parents - I'm here to talk to other CF people - as an older CF woman I felt I could bring an older woman's perspective to the discussion - one who has travelled further along life's path.
I think a few people have stopped posting here because they felt it was an unsafe site...I think that's sad and unfortunate...but I can understand their decision.
Frieda - you say that some of your "unacceptable" comments may have caused trouble (sorry if I have misquoted you)
Well, I recall seeing a topic entitled, "I hate being a Mom" or similar words a few months ago - How unacceptable is that statement in society? Was that mother cautioned?
I can feel the upset, distress and tension that the "intruders" cause and it saddens me - they don't upset me - they would have upset me once but age has some benefits - you've heard it all before and I can now see clearly (with little emotion) - I can see straight through the "attacker" - most of these people are reacting to their own sadness and disappointment in life...otherwise, why react? Why seek out our forum?
Still...when I see/hear my CF friends hurting, it hurts me - it's like watching a bully have "a go" at your friend in the schoolyard...
AND, unfortunately it now seems to happen on a fairly regular basis...
I'm not sure I can see that changing...

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 185
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Anastasia - you might have missed the posts which were indeed all-condemning. In general, it doesn't do good to track down past mistakes and to hold up individuals for scrutiny. It is best for us all to agree to ground rules going forward, set things up as best we can for success, and then move forward with our new plan which supports us all.

Deborah - yes, I've heard from many married-no-kids people who feel they no longer wanted to post here because it was too hostile / virulently anti-parent. Part of what we want to do is ensure these forums are welcoming and supportive to all married no kids people regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of feeling.

I think many people with "different views" come in by accident and post not in hostility but in confusion. Kim and I are working on a series of solutions to help ensure that visitors in here realize where they are and the purpose of this forum area before they consider posting.

Joined: Feb 2003
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BellaOnline Editor
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Lisa is saying we, CFers, are here to *mutually support* each other. smile Not to have 'venting' sessions, I don't think. But to talk to each other about our decisions not to have kids and how to get along in life as CF people. To connect with other CF people.

But not to diss others for their decisions to have kids. That is their choice; to not have kids is my choice. It's like any personal decision. I think Lisa made a great point about that: just b/c I am a Democrat doesn't mean i will publicly say rude things about a Republican in these forums. BellaOnline is about making the world a better place. A nicer place. There are other forums I can post on if I wanted to participate in mean talk.

Hate talk is simply against the BellaOnline rules. smile

Sometimes I am afraid to post here, b/c while I would love to have CF friends, people just like me, I am not into the putting down of child-rearing people. I have no anger, no beef with them. There are a whole lot of other things I would love to talk about with like minded people. All my friends have children, so I would love to find out how others have made their lives better by our choice to NOT procreate. smile


Last edited by Jilly; 04/23/08 08:23 PM.
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Gecko
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Posts: 557
One thing I'd like to say is that I really appreciate that I was able to stand up for myself when I had a conflict with a moderator. Kim- I was upset with you for a while, but I appreciate that I was allowed to disagree without being banned.

As for the other posters on this site, I also appreciate that I wasn't ganged up on when I was having the disagreement.

I think people reach out to each other and try to see the reason in each other's statements. That's pretty special, and rare. It reminds me to try and keep my cool and keep in mind that most arguments are about communication, not that the 'other' person is 'bad.'

As for rules and non-CF people posting on the site- well, I view the site as a supportive one and if people come on and act aggressive or rude, I try to ignore them. Sure, since it's an open forum they can show up and voice their opinion, but I don't have to pay any attention to them.

That said, when I think someone is acting reasonable, I feel that it's safe to disagree with them, since they're rational people and will respond to my disagreement logically.


...the cake is a lie...the cake is a lie...the cake is a lie...
Joined: Sep 2007
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Gecko
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I was actually referring to people that have left because they felt unsafe to voice their opinion for fear of a parent intruding/attacking...
It surprises me that people would consider this Board anti-parent - I know lots of great parents and have no problem with them - the more direct comments I read seem to refer to isolated examples - usually poor or irresponsible parents...ie. using drugs in the company of your child
There are other websites that are nothing but hate talk - I don't identify with them....
I was actually impressed that the discussion on MNK was civil and balanced with the odd person needing to vent...
That's why I joined - I would not have joined an anti-parent forum because I'm not anti-parent, just CF

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Yes, I am not anti-parent, I am anti-certain-parents, just like I am anti-certain-people-who-aren't-parents.

Joined: May 2007
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Gecko
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I just want to add as well there IS another childfree board that while you are not allowed to put down parents I think which is fine, I think is a bit too much the OTHER way.
I said something about a certain aspect of parenting and how I think if I was a parent I wouldn't enjoy this certain aspect of parenting and OK not ALL parents go through this (basically you know sometimes having to dress down cos the kids - babies or little kids - get you dirty and I work with kids so I KNOW this can happen!!!!) but I felt the answer from the moderator was a bit sharp!
Yes I REALISE all parents can have different experiences, I get that. Still for e.g. a LOT of mothers of babies DO get spit up on their shirts. I didn't mean to IMPLY that all parents look like [censored] which was how the moderator took it, just that kids can be messy and sometimes with kids you can't wear your favourite clothes so much if your favourite clothes are fancy.
(I end up with milk - from a carton - spilled on my jeans at LEAST once a week by the kids OK.)
I wasn't saying that ALL parents look bad but that's how it was taken.
And I felt a bit like oh my goodness wary of even posting there again although I think I have since esp. as I was quite new there and yes I really DID feel like I was "walking on egg shells" after that and if you're not a troll you shouldn't have to feel like that on a support forum! but what I am getting at is I like the balance of this forum.
I too have been to other forums that I felt were too hostile - this one is NOTHING!! - and felt a bit uncomfortable cos as you know I LIKE kids, LOVE the ones I work with and respect that parents have chosen to be parents. I am NOT anti-parent, it's just it would be a cold day in hell before I would become one!
Some people say it would be a cold day in hell before they would travel from their country or say own a cat or whatever. Personal preferences and life choices. I'm wired childfree BORN that way can't help it, don't wanna.
So to me Married No Kids is the most balanced Childfree forum I have found thus far and I'm not sure I want that to change!


I leave the child-rearing to people who feel called to it. I've never felt that call.
Joined: Aug 2007
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Warning: When pushed, FeeBee loses her "nice girl" image...you're about to witness it...

Originally Posted By: Deborah49
To be perfectly honest I'm not here to educate/enlighten/satisfy the curiosity of parents - I'm here to talk to other CF people


Hear, hear Deborah. In response to what we have been advised, I would like to support what you have said here. I don't have the energy or the inclination to "save the world" so to speak; ie I am not posting on this forum to be a "publicist" for the CF lifestyle. I am a marketer and publicist in my work - I am used to having to adapt all my communications messages for an audience. I'm getting an uncomfortable feeling that this is what I am being asked to do here. This may be a bit strong, but I feel like I am being asked to only post about the "positive aspects" of the CF lifestyle. Well, there are heaps of cr*p aspects too. And what I am needing is honest, non-sugarcoated discussion. It's what I have found so refreshing about the MNK forum and why I embraced it (and keep visiting). Intelligence, ability to see beyond the obvious, courage to speak out, black humour, irreverance, freedom to vent etc.

We shouldn't be afraid of a bit of irreverence here. It's what spices up life. Frankly, it's one of the reasons Bella has high traffic (I'm a web marketer - I watch the statistics here with interest - most people are on MNK) and one of the reasons so many parents are in here. The conversation is substantial and fascinating. The odd vent is really funny - we can all relate to the vexation. I think it's a miracle that such an interesting group of people, who have the ability to think creatively and laterally, have gathered in this space and I believe they should be nurtured and welcomed. They have shared their lives and experience and advice - for that, they should be thanked. Notice how many writers and artists are here? That's no coincidence. Anyone brave enough to consider being childfree in this child-centric Western world is a creative, lateral thinker.

I need to add that nothing else about the Bella site has retained my interest - sorry to be blunt, but it's true. None of the other discussions in any of the other forums are of a level that I want to spend my valuable spare time reading or contributing to. I'm here because of the unique collection of people on MNK - contributors to your valuable content!

I can accept that derogatory terms and blatant putdowns are not a productive use of our forum time but it's about the context in which they are being used - usually after a particularly frustrating experience in a world where we are expected to defer to children and their rights. I have NEVER witnessed anyone in this forum randomly abusing or criticising someone for no reason, except when provoked to defend themselves.

I guess I, like many of the others, now feel a little lost. What do I post here? Lists of how nice it is to be CF and what great things I do with my spare time?

Hmmmmm, need to have a little ponder over all this....suddenly it's lost its allure...


Last edited by FeebeeGeebee; 04/24/08 04:13 AM.
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