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Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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That's interesting, thank you for sharing.

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I love how the people defending spanking were the parents who had FOUR kids under the age of six!!

'But Ted and Andrea Fouriezo, who have four children under the age of 6, defend spanking as a necessary means of setting and enforcing limits with their kids.'

So really what they're saying is they have lost control of their family because there are too many toddlers running around ... and they don't have time for actually dealing with the underlying problems ...


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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I won't argue with the study, as it brings up some great points. But if we use discipline and love to help shape our children. Then why do we have more fights in school. More school shootings. More teachers that are afraid of their students.

Maybe spanking isn't the answer..I'm fine with that, I was never a fan of it when I was getting it. But it seemed like that was the last thing that worked. Kids are getting worse... it's not simple a generation gap that leads us to think they are being disrespectfull. They are killing each other, more and more each day. If the discipline we are using isn't working, we need to try something else.

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I think again you're looking at this emotionally, not factually smile

"In a recent report the CDC concluded that school violence was on the fall and declining. The student homicide rates have fallen from .07 to .03. According to cdc.gov, "From 1999 to 2006, 116 students were killed in 109 school associated incidents, translating to an average of 16.5 student homicide victims each year and an average annual homicide rate of .03 per 100,000 students."

The rate is going DOWN. It is just that the media blasts every instance all over the news, every second of every day with tons of photos. We are bombarded with it. In the past, if it happened in Georgia, people in California might not even know.

How about non-fatal crimes?

"The rate of nonfatal violent crimes at school has declined from 48 per 1,000 students in 1992 to 33 per 1000 in 1999 5. The rate of serious school-related violent crime, including rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault, has also generally declined over that time period. In 1999, 7 out of every 1000 students were victims of serious violent crimes while at school or going to and from school 6."

Again it is that the media is sensationalizing these incidents so that they all seem URGENT and SCARY and EXCITING.


Lisa Shea, Low Carb and Video Games Editor
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When I read the comment about the ancient Romans' opinions of their offspring, my instinctive first thought was "Is it any surprise the Empire fell?" A civilization that has lost control of its offspring cannot teach them, and therefore cannot survive.
The long term survival of any society depends on what can be taught to the younger generations.

Are today's parents less in control than those of generations past? I don't know. I know is certainly seems that way in my little corner of the world, but my experiences are not national statistics and averages, just what I see around me.

Is physical punishment the only way to ensure kids will behave? No. Is a swat on the butt the only thing some kids will understand? Yes, but often those are kids who have been taught no other language of discipline.

Just some stray thoughts...



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Good topic, and it's one that I hope will survive, not to be drowned out completely in the gumdrop, lollipop world of "time-outs."

I don't think that girls should get a belt, but when boys defy their fathers (if they're around), I don't think an occasional belt swat is barbaric or cruel. I know many fine men today who admit they were quite unruly 30 years ago, but when they saw that belt come out, they knew their fathers meant business. It wasn't as much of a "pain" thing as much as it was a "shame" thing to be swatted by their sire. Psychology plays big here when done right, by the right people.

Of course, everyone always thinks they're the "right" people. frown

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I feel many parents aren't confident enough to let their children be individuals. So in order to keep them in line (or exert control over them because THEY feel inadequate or under control), they try to make kids into little obedient robots.

And, for the most part, this doesn't necessarily result in "obedient" or adjusted adults--but, rather, people who grow up to feel shame for being their unique self.

I agree with Lisa: those who hit lack the skills to invest in their children and are intimidated by feeling/being out of control--so they lash out in fear ("Oh my! What will my grandparents think if my children aren't 'kept in line'?!").

I was hit as a kid, and it did psychological damage. I suffered major depression in college and had to get counseling. (I was a straight A kid who was NOT a problem child. Hell, I wasn't even allowed to leave the house to GET into trouble!) Fortunately, after counseling, the depression never returned (but IBS and anxiety stayed with me as a result of the verbal and physical abuse).

I was afraid to have kids because, as a former counselor/Psych minor, I knew the statistics: parents often do "what they know"...which means that those who are hit go on to be hitters--perpetuating the cycle of abuse.

However, I DID ending up having a child...and I did NOT propogate the cycle of abuse. I don't hit my child, and I certainly don't humiliate or scream at him. He's an adorable 9 year old who is loving, respectful, creative, clever and kind. Everywhere he goes he spreads sunshine (e.g. the dental assistants all claim that he's THEIR "little man"!)

We spend the TIME and attention to actually RAISE our son. I homeschool him and there is LOVE and RESPECT demonstrated by my husband and me AS A COUPLE. It does no good to try to teach respect without parents not having any for one another--let alone strangers.

I'm grateful that I turned out to be an exception to the abuse rule--and comforted that I don't have to feel the guilt, self-doubt or self-righteous justification that hitters/abusers are plagued with because THEY are the ones so out of control and lacking self-esteem and self-respect.

Last edited by Janet_Boyer; 04/22/08 02:18 AM.
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I'm a non smacker. No physical punishment whatsoever allowed in our home. Spanking and threatening are degrading and shame inducing. They cause psychological damage that often isn't obvious for years. There's so much information and evidence supporting the damage that spanking does that it's a no-brainer for me.

Ciao,

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Originally Posted By: Lisa Low Carb Ed
I think again you're looking at this emotionally, not factually smile



Based on the facts presented.. I have no choice but to agree.


Maybe I am unlucky and it's just this community that produces 90% delinquents to 10% normal children.

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