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Joined: Mar 2007
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Chipmunk
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Originally Posted By: happytobechildfree


And it's so true that women have babies to get out of going to work! And then they judge US. And I can understand why this bugs men, too. It really pushes my DH's buttons that women want to stay at home. If we both worked and had kids, he would totally help around the house. That's how he is. But I'm glad I never have to find out how helpful he would be!

My BIL was a stay at home Dad. His wife is the breadwinner - she's a doctor. I can't help it - I judge him. I think it's really lame that he isn't supporting his family financially. He intentionally chose teaching so he could stay at home with the kids. Now they have financial problems, and his kids are in school. I feel like screaming, "dude, get a real job and support your kids." I'm an equal opportunity person, and I think it's lame when women do this, too - pick some lightweight career and let their husband bust his hump at work. I know they do work in the home, but I think being a housewife is a cop out for many women that are afraid of failing in the "real world." And they might never be managers at work, but they are in a position of power at home b/c they tell the kids what to do, and what they say goes.


Your posts have been like gold this morning Happy. I can't tell you how much I agree and how much these issues have been on my mind lately.

I didn't realize this until after being on this forum for awhile, and hearing about other peoples' brothers (like Deb's) who get saddled with a family by manipulation. I feel a little afraid for my brother because I know that if he marries his GF, this is how it will likely go.

He seems open to the idea of having kids, and has a great career, and I assume his GF wants kids since most women do. As much as I've been tempted to go that route myself (escape my job when it's been tough or boring or frustrating or low-paying, and have a kid to give myself an automatic purpose and get the SAH perk instead of trying to find my own life), I don't feel that it's completely fair.

And looking at it from a sister perspective, it seems like he would be getting used. I like that it would give him stability, and maybe a more warm and loving home hopefully (to either be married or have a wife and kid), there would be this trade off financially. If that's what he really wants, then so be it, but if he's doing it from pressure from society, her, or an oops, then it doesn't seem fair.

Last edited by frieda7; 12/27/07 02:22 PM.
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Chipmunk
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Originally Posted By: frieda7
Your posts have been like gold this morning Happy. I can't tell you how much I agree and how much these issues have been on my mind lately.

I didn't realize this until after being on this forum for awhile, and hearing about other peoples' brothers (like Deb's) who get saddled with a family by manipulation. I feel a little afraid for my brother because I know that if he marries his GF, this is how it will likely go.

He seems open to the idea of having kids, and has a great career, and I assume his GF wants kids since most women do. As much as I've been tempted to go that route myself (escape my job when it's been tough or boring or frustrating or low-paying, and have a kid to give myself an automatic purpose and get the SAH perk instead of trying to find my own life), I don't feel that it's completely fair.

And looking at it from a sister perspective, it seems like he would be getting used. I like that it would give him stability, and maybe a more warm and loving home hopefully (to either be married or have a wife and kid), there would be this trade off financially. If that's what he really wants, then so be it, but if he's doing it from pressure from society, her, or an oops, then it doesn't seem fair.


Thanks, Frieda! I'm glad that my situation and thoughts are somehow helpful. I think I would feel the same way if I had a brother. I know that it's old school to stay at home, and a lot of people still accept this without questioning it. But I wouldn't be cool with it, doing it myself, or having my DH stay home. Luckily, things are changing, and people are starting to question the stay at home scenario. I know a lot of women that are doing it and were almost calculating about it. And I know a woman that said "and I won't have to work." So, in her mind, she's "getting away with" something. Even though I would argue she will be working plenty.

Last edited by happytobechildfree; 12/27/07 04:57 PM.

Save your own life - don't have kids!
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Also, the "I'm lucky, I don't have to work" which usually means, "my DH is working himself into an early grave"....
Lots of women hide behind their kids - they don't want to work or they have lost confidence after years of being out of the workforce.
I know women who have suddenly decided to have another baby when the youngest hits about 8 and people start to ask about going back to work.
Or, the woman that will say, "No, I can't work because MY family comes first" putting down all the working mothers.
My PA calls them "professional Mums" - she got flack for years from this group - she had to keep working - her husband left when their son was a baby and she didn't want to struggle on welfare for years.
My DH works in a fairly conservative firm - I think there are two other working wives - the others are all SAHM's...the men are expected to work like dogs sending kids to private schools, buying beach houses, 4WD vehicles.....they're like rats on a treadmill...many of the wives have lots of help in the home - several play tennis a few times a week and they all seem to have full social lives.
So, I think traditional parenting can be a trap both ways...for the woman at home and the man at work.
I scream loud and long for woman to keep their skills and qualifications up to date...so many women put themselves in a vulnerable position - I've seen it SO MANY times - divorce followed by years of struggling to raise kids alone - the husband continues with his career and new life.
I know of one woman in this situation - her husband now lives with his 24 year old secretary and she is struggling to raise 3 boys and HE was the one who pushed for kids - NEVER have kids for someone else.
I think every woman thinking about having a child should keep in mind, that there is roughly a 50% chance her marriage will end perhaps when her kids are young - she might have to raise the children alone, with little financial or other support...
Do you still want to have children?
In my opinion it has to be something YOU want to do with your life and you must be able to provide a stable/secure and loving home. I know you don't know what's around the corner but if you start on strong ground, it gives you the best chance AND if it all ends, you still have the child/ren that YOU wanted in your life.
Sorry - a bit of a rant....

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Chipmunk
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YES, YES, and YES again! Your rant was well taken. Sometimes I feel like an alien because I won't surrender my viewpoints on this. But I've been watching it play out my whole life, I would have to be stupid not to notice a pattern.

I love how you said women "hide behind their kids." It's hard to tell if they really love kids when they start popping them out, or if they are just petrified of going back into the work world. They just dig a deeper hole if that is what they are doing... eventually all of their kids will be old enough to be in school full-time. Then what? I'm seeing this with my Mom and MIL right now - if it weren't for the grandkids, they would have NOTHING. It's so depressing. They are so glad they still have someone to clean up after. And my Mom is only 56.

I've said what you said above so many times - that you have to go into parenting assuming there's a high probability you could end up doing it alone. If you aren't willing to do that, and you don't want it that bad, probably not a good idea.

I think the gamble aspect of it really scares me - the gamble of taking a chance on having a child that could have ADHD, mental retardation, or just be someone I can't stand. Then, you are also putting the relationship on the craps table. Because, let's face it, if you end up with a nightmare child, that will probably lead to the end of the marriage. It happens all the time.

Last edited by happytobechildfree; 12/27/07 10:41 PM.

Save your own life - don't have kids!
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The path of least resistance is almost inevitable for most...one of my late aunt's quotes...
We have close friends, "A" she's 36 and "M" he's 43 - she has decided after years of uncertainty that they should have kids. Her husband is "not fussed about kids"...but is clearly, going along with the idea.
They currently fly to Aspen to ski every year and generally, lead an amazing life. "A" has led a charmed life - wealthy parents, has never struggled - started at the top - boy, is she in for a shock!
They conceived twins (in Aspen) early this year but sadly, they both had serious genetic problems so they were aborted - they're now in Paris - hoping to conceive again...
"A" said to a mutual friend, "that she couldn't fight it anymore - better to get it out of the way so she could get on with her life"....
as I say, she's in for a shock.
The path of least resistance....

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Shark
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I see this with my parents as well as my in-laws...my brother and my husband's sister both had their first child at around the same time. It was like both our parents suddenly found something to live for: the grandbabies!! Now everything is visiting the grandbaby and pics and blah blah blah. They have nothing else going on in their lives and this makes me incredibly sad.

One of the few reasons I ever want to have a kid is when I am frustrated at work and want to get out of it for awhile. When I have this feeling, I remind myself that is a silly reason to have a kid and move on. It is scary to think that women have these feelings and go forward with having a kid (or several kids). Are they consciously aware of what they are doing?


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i got bingoed on the phone yesterday talking to a friend of mine. ( well it wasn't a really bad bingo,it was more like just asking a ques. like where are going on your cruise? type of thing)we've been friends for a long time but she's not one of my BFF plus she's very catholic so i never really discussed the CF thing with her. anyway, we were talking about kids and she asked about me and my hubby. i i decided to just be straight with her and told her that we weren't going to be having kids and that we like being aunt and uncle(that is my typical response,it gets the pt. across and it seems to prevent the ques. such as why not? and so forth)anyway, i didnt' quite know what she would say but i was very happy when she said" i can understand that." she's never bugged us about having kids. she doesn't have any but she wants one. i think mostly the reason why they don't have any is financial but i'm not sure. i don't feel like it's my place to ask. just like i don't really like when people ask me "why don't you have kids?"

we went out with friends of ours from out of town. she's preggers and plans on being a stay at home mom. i almost feel bad for her b/c i can tell aleady that her whole life is going to consist of just her hubby and child. she really doesn't do much on her own now and i'm sure it will get worse when the baby comes.

indigo

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The women who have children and SAH and then decide that they're bored are the ones who write the horrible blogs about motherhood. I was explaining something I read in one to DH yesterday and I accidentally said "the pregnicle," mixing "pregnancy article" together.

So that is what we're calling them now. Pregnicles!

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