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Re: Airplane madness! [Re: jezthepuff] #331969
07/30/07 01:27 PM
07/30/07 01:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 91
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greenblue Offline OP
Amoeba
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Originally Posted By: jezthepuff
What I find interesting is HOW MANY children are now on flights. I don't know about you, but as a child, I did not travel. My first flight was on my honeymoon at age 23. It wasn't that my parents didn't have the money to travel or whatever....they just felt that you shouldn't travel with children as you never know how they are going to behave or react. And after you are already on the plane, it's not like you can just get off when they start fussing.

So why all of the kids on planes? Oh, I know....because parents shouldn't have to make any sacrifices to have children. Yet everyone around them (planes, restaurants, church, etc.) has to put up with the screaming, babbling, shrieking, kicking...


I agree with you. People are totally entitled. Although I think an additional reason why we see so many kids on planes, in fancy restaurants, R-rated movies, museums and other kid-unfriendly places is the hyperparenting trend. It's become socially unacceptable to do anything without your child. I'm 41, and when I was a kid my parents would occasionally go on vacations by themselves (my brother & I would stay with my grandparents). And the only kind of family vacations we took were within driving distance and usually involved the beach. On most Saturday nights, my parents would hire a babysitter and go out to dinner or a movie. If my parents hosted party, my brother & I would come out to say hello to the adults, and then go play quietly in a different room - no one brought their kids to adult parties they way they do now. None of this seemed odd to me at the time, since that is what most of my friends' parents did. Now it seems like people my age & younger who have kids act like it's child abuse to not include their children in everything they do - even if doing kid-unfriendly activities with kids is miserable for everyone (parents, kids and innocent bystanders). I think my parents had the right idea. They allowed themselves some kid-free time, and somehow my brother & I turned out just fine without being with them 24 hours a day.

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Re: Airplane madness! [Re: MettaMaid] #332052
07/30/07 09:31 PM
07/30/07 09:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 709
Dallas, TX
Angela P Offline
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Angela P  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 709
Dallas, TX
Well, I do understand about wanting to take their kids to see relatives and stuff, especially over holidays.

But what's the big freaking deal about druggin' 'em? I mean, it sounds so taboo, but hell, we do it with pets on car trips, why not kiddos on planes? Just something to make 'em sleep. Why is that so preposterous?? It doesn't hurt the little fellers, just shuts 'em up for a while.

I guess parents would start taking advantage of it and drugging their kids every time they wanted some peace and quiet. Oh...no that's just me. *laugh* See why I didn't spawn?


"Men and women think that it is necessary to have children. It is not. It is their animal nature and social custom, rather than reason, which makes them believe that this is a necessity." --Democritus
Re: Airplane madness! [Re: Angela P] #332055
07/30/07 09:40 PM
07/30/07 09:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 709
Dallas, TX
Angela P Offline
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Angela P  Offline
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As a follow-up to my last post, I just asked one of my breeder friends if she would ever consider giving her kid a sedative on a plane (he's currently about 20 months old).

"Absolutely!" she said. Pediatrician-approved, requested ahead of time, the whole nine yards.

Thank God there's hope.


"Men and women think that it is necessary to have children. It is not. It is their animal nature and social custom, rather than reason, which makes them believe that this is a necessity." --Democritus
Re: Airplane madness! [Re: greenblue] #332180
07/31/07 03:58 PM
07/31/07 03:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Canada
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piscean_goddess Offline
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Canada
Quote:
[color:#000099][/color]I'm 41, and when I was a kid my parents would occasionally go on vacations by themselves (my brother & I would stay with my grandparents). And the only kind of family vacations we took were within driving distance and usually involved the beach. On most Saturday nights, my parents would hire a babysitter and go out to dinner or a movie. If my parents hosted party, my brother & I would come out to say hello to the adults, and then go play quietly in a different room - no one brought their kids to adult parties they way they do now. None of this seemed odd to me at the time, since that is what most of my friends' parents did. Now it seems like people my age & younger who have kids act like it's child abuse to not include their children in everything they do - even if doing kid-unfriendly activities with kids is miserable for everyone (parents, kids and innocent bystanders). I think my parents had the right idea. They allowed themselves some kid-free time, and somehow my brother & I turned out just fine without being with them 24 hours a day.

GreenBlue,
When I read this it felt like I was writing it!
I'm the same age as you, also have one brother and your description could me MY childhood! So why do our friends, who grew up the same way we did, do not raise their children as they were raised?

I was at a wedding this weekend (it was a second marriage: she already has 1 child, he has 2, and together they recently had a baby).
When we got to the church, my DH and I could not believe the number of children and babies! The maid of honour came down the aisle holding her baby; one pregnant mom (with her 4th) carried one of her babies as she read one of the readings -- there were as many children as adults (when I was a child, my parents never took us to weddings or funerals. I attended my first wedding when I was 16).
I anticipated a horrible evening of gritting my teeth and pretending to have fun, but thankfully the dinner/celebration at the club was very well organized: the under 10 were taken to a separate room with a sitter, activities, etc. same for the over 10, and at 9:15pm a limo was made available to bring the children back to their sitter/grandparents, etc.
The bride came up to us after and asked: "I hope you didn't mind having all these children around?"
How could we when it was so well organized and respectful of others?!

In these child-centric/obnoxious self-absorbed parent times we live in, it is refreshing to see that there are still people who are consciously aware.

PG

Re: Airplane madness! [Re: piscean_goddess] #332190
07/31/07 05:32 PM
07/31/07 05:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 91
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greenblue Offline OP
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PG

"So why do our friends, who grew up the same way we did, not raise their children the same way they were raised?"

I've thought about this often, and the only explanation for this that I can think of is that people's expectations for what having children will bring them, in terms of emotional rewards and meaning in their lives, has changed drastically. (When I was a kid, never did I hear an adult rhapsodize about the joys of parenthood the way parents do today. People just had kids because that is what everyone did. It wasn't infused with such meaning.) I think that when people place such outsized importance on their kids, they obsess about them - not unlike romantic obsession, which of course eliminates all sense of reason. That's my theory, anyway. I'd love to hear others' ideas on this issue. There are so many of us on this board in our 30s and 40s who are bewildered by the way our peers raise their kids.

It sounds like your friends who got married are really thoughtful and generous people. It must have taken quite a bit of planning, not to mention expense, to entertain and provide for all those kids at the wedding. I assume that many people wouldn't have come at all if they weren't invited to bring their precious kids.

GB

Re: Airplane madness! [Re: greenblue] #332371
08/01/07 07:25 PM
08/01/07 07:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,002
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lngilbert Offline
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Posts: 2,002
At my sister's wedding, the flower girl got more attention than my sister. The photographer kept making her parade around while he took about 100 pictures of her. The entire room spent that time going "awww.... how cute."

It made me sick.

At my friend's wedding, his nephew was the ring bearer and got pretty much the same amount of attention. Plus, the kid is super precocious, so all he did during the entire rehearsal, rehearsal dinner, and wedding was bother people with all the "facts" he knows or take pictures of everyone with his camera ... but he would set up all the shots, which required lots of shuffling around and wasting time that needed to be spent on something else.

But the whole time, everyone but me was "awww ..." And generally I like playing with the kids, but this was a WEDDING. It's about the BRIDE and GROOM. Not nephew. Not flower girl. Everyone shouldn't watch the ring bearer do a dance move instead of watching the bride and groom cut the cake.


You can't take the sky from me ...
Re: Airplane madness! [Re: greenblue] #332376
08/01/07 08:43 PM
08/01/07 08:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 114
Canada
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piscean_goddess Offline
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Canada
Yes, GB, I am thankful for our thoughtful friends -- they are raising their children (from what I can see) much like we were raised.

As for the reasoning behind modern parenting, it's a tough one and I agree with you: it's almost like an obsession.
Maybe because the 70's & 80's were such "me" focussed times, the children of these parents perhaps are overcompensating by outwardly focussing their attention onto their children: perhaps they themsleves did not receive much of anything from their parents (be it love or material things, etc).
It could also partly be the media which seems to almost always have a"brainwash" effect on the general population (always fun to blame the media, isn't it? wink. The media instills fear into parents by the constant warning of the evils of society; the advertisers continually bombard us with a plethora of newer products available, so much so, that there is way too much choice available; the media also keeps giving attention to famous "brats" making it acceptable to behave poorly in public and getting away with it (to the point of idolisation).
Who are the role models?
No wonder there is such confusion!

Re: Airplane madness! [Re: lngilbert] #332382
08/01/07 09:10 PM
08/01/07 09:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923
NotInterested Offline
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NotInterested  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 923
At my sister's wedding, the flower girl got more attention than my sister. The photographer kept making her parade around while he took about 100 pictures of her. The entire room spent that time going "awww.... how cute."

It made me sick.


At the wedding I went to last year, there was no flower girl, but there were a good handful of children in the 200 guests there. However, I did not notice ANY of the kids there (really stand out (and I usually am on the lookout for kids in situations like that to misbehave). None of them did. That was good -- because the attention was concentrated on the bride and groom. The story behind them is worth a book in and of itself, with me having a big part smile

So I got lucky smile

Re: Airplane madness! [Re: lngilbert] #332435
08/02/07 02:54 PM
08/02/07 02:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 570
New Hampshire, USA
bonsai Offline
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New Hampshire, USA
Originally Posted By: lngilbert
But the whole time, everyone but me was "awww ..." And generally I like playing with the kids, but this was a WEDDING. It's about the BRIDE and GROOM. Not nephew. Not flower girl. Everyone shouldn't watch the ring bearer do a dance move instead of watching the bride and groom cut the cake.


Yes, but folks who incorporate flower girls or ring bearers into their ceremonies are essentially asking for people to focus on the cute-sy factor, no?

That said, after the ceremony is over, people should get the hell over it! Sheesh!

I had a music agency for seven years and we played about 70 weddings per year (chamber music, jazz combos for receptions, etc.). I absolutely *loved* that there was a growing trend of having couples' dogs as ring bearers! Now there's a cute-sy I can get behind...



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