logo
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 224
A
Shark
OP Offline
Shark
A
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 224
There was an earlier topic about forgiveness, and many people stated that they could forgive.

Patience said that she prefers to use the word 'Accept' instead of 'forgive' - and I would like to hear what this word 'forgive' means to others, especially those who say thay can forgive even the worst crimes done to them or their loved ones.

I will honestly admit that there are some things I can forgive, and some that I cannot forgive, and never will forgive. But first, let me define what to 'forgive' means to me.

For me, to forgive means the following:

1) To look at the person or people, and treat them as if what they did to me or others never happened. Or,

2) To look upon them in the belief that they did not mean it.

3) To continue to love and respect them.

4) To be willing to embrace them as friends.

This is what the word 'forgive' means to me.

I am only able to do this in some situations where the person is truly sorry, and says so, or where there have been extenuating circumstances which convince me that they were not responsible.

For the other cases, such as torture of animals, satanic ritual abuse, destruction of lives by mental, emotional, physical and spiritual abuse on a major level (as in prison camps and child abuse)I am unable to forgive as described, but I may accept what happened and move on in my life. This does not mean that I regard them as 'not responsible' and I do not 'love or respect' them. I simply accept that these things happened in an imperfect world, and some people are just plain wicked, and I don't have to love them, welcome them back into my life, or have sympathy for them. Quite the opposite. I hope they are severely punished and get back 'in full measure' what they have given.

I learn from the experience, and steer clear of people like that in future. I have love and compassion and understanding for their victims and do what I can to support them.

What do you mean when you say you forgive? Do you really forgive these serious crimes if they are committed against you or those you love? Is it really forgiveness, or is it acceptance? or something else?

Sponsored Post Advertisement
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
D
das Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
D
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
To me forgive means that we forget totally about something. It leaves no mark on us.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966
E
Koala
Offline
Koala
E
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966
I don't like the word "forgive" and I don't use it very often. It feels like too religious a word for me, based on past, negative experiences.

Instead, I use the word "let go". That is the essence of the concept of "forgiveness" for me. It is not excusing or accepting or forgetting what is done to me, but it is learning from the experience, taking what I need to remember, and letting the hurt go.

Interestingly, when Oprah did a show on The Secret, there was a fascinating comment that put "forgive" into a totally new light for me (although I'm still not sure that it is the right word for me). The comment was something like: When you "forgive" someone, you really say "thank you FOR GIVING me this experience." That doesn't mean acceptance, it means looking for the lesson and taking only that away from the experience.

Worth thinking about maybe.


Elle Carter Neal
BellaOnline Alumna
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
D
das Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
D
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
Let go is a nice word.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
This is interesting....
I accept what Elle says when she feels that the word 'Forgive' has a religious connotation for her...yet we scramble around the language, looking for suitable alternatives, and borrow other words, like, 'Accept' or 'let Go'...we evn play with the language, by splitting words and saying things like 'For Giving'....

This isn't a criticism. Oh no. It's an observation of how far forward we have moved with our psychology of coping and dealing with experiences, to the measure that our rich and varied English language has not managed to keep up, catch up or have adequate expressions to denote precisely what we mean. We used to know what 'Forgiveness' meant, because we had a narrower social, ethical and moral viewpoint. Now, with the increased awareness of our own consciousness, Mental Power and role in this Life, the usual words just don't cut it.....

Maybe we need to find a new word, which illustrates exactly the power of "forgiveness" - The release of having to carry the torment around with us, the end of futile suffering, the exorcism of the haunting, constant influence bestowed upon us by whatever or whoever inflicted the pain....


And what better place to start coining a really good word, but here....?

In the meantime, may I borrow from an ancient language, and wholeheartedly wish all those who have endured suffering, and are still in the midst of their suffering, the following:

Metta, Karuna, and Upeka*.

With love,

Alexandra


*(Metta embraces all beings, Karuna embraces all those who suffer, Upekkha embraces the good, bad, loved and unloved, pleasant and unpleasant.)


Last edited by Alexandra; 05/01/07 04:41 AM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
P
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
All good points here. I think the reference to language is a notable one.

Letting go is also very important, and I believe it goes hand in glove with acceptance. You can't accept without letting go, and you can't let go without acceptance. Or so it seems to me.

Patience.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
P
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
Originally Posted By: elleCreatEd
Interestingly, when Oprah did a show on The Secret, there was a fascinating comment that put "forgive" into a totally new light for me (although I'm still not sure that it is the right word for me). The comment was something like: When you "forgive" someone, you really say "thank you FOR GIVING me this experience." That doesn't mean acceptance, it means looking for the lesson and taking only that away from the experience.

Worth thinking about maybe.


I am a great admirer of Oprah, but I think this reference would only apply in some situations where no great damage has been done. For example, it is a good thing to think on if you have been betrayed by a friend, or such like; - but hardly suitable if the person you are 'thanking' for the learning experience has just murdered your child!

I really think what we are finding here are 'degrees' of hurt. Different rules (for lack of a better word) apply in different situations of harm done to us. How we are able to react will depend on what the offence was, and the depth of destruction it caused.

I am reminded of how, in hospital, I was asked to describe my pain on a scale from 1 to 10. But for some people, what I might put as 5 (I have a high pain tolerance)they might put as 10, and sometimes, when you compare it to the greaest pain you have up to that point experienced, you might think that they should increase it to 20!! For someone with a high pain tolerance, an answer of '5' might lead the doctor to think that your pain isn't very bad and that therefore there can't be much wrong with you, - while another person with the same condition might say 10, and yet your 5 and their 10 are really the same degree of pain and equally as serious. I personally feel that this is a very poor way of discerning how much pain a person is in and how serious it is.

The degree of pain may be experienced very differently for each individual, so 'forgiving', for some deeds committed, may be a simpler matter for some than for others, because of the degree of pain experienced from what might seem to be the same deed. The "It only hurt you, but it nearly killed me" response.

(does that make sense?!)

Patience.

Last edited by patience; 05/01/07 06:06 AM.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966
E
Koala
Offline
Koala
E
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966
Originally Posted By: patience
I am a great admirer of Oprah, but I think this reference would only apply in some situations where no great damage has been done. For example, it is a good thing to think on if you have been betrayed by a friend, or such like; - but hardly suitable if the person you are 'thanking' for the learning experience has just murdered your child!


You're absolutely right. And I didn't like the idea of "thanking" the person either, but I wanted to quote it as closely as I remembered the comment.

To my mind, it's not a case of "thanking" or accepting a terrible experience or allowing the person who committed a horrible act to "get away with it" at all.

The Oprah comment started a whole new train of thought in my mind :

When we have an experience - positive or negative - we gain self knowledge during that process. This is neither a good nor bad thing, it simply is what is. No one sends us "trials" and "tests" so that we can learn something from it. It just is. This concept of realising what we have gained in self knowledge is what we learn to recognise and appreciate. And that to me is the concept of "forgiveness". It has nothing to do with the culprit, and everything to do with looking for self growth in all situations.

(So, even though the comment sparked my understanding, I don't quite agree with the somantics either - no one has "given" me the experience; I have gained by myself. And there is no one to "thank" for it; only the appreciation of the growth within.)

Yes, our language is narrow sometimes.


Elle Carter Neal
BellaOnline Alumna
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
P
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
Yes Elle,
I have learned valuable lessons from every negative experience (even if it is only to NOT believe everything people promise me!)

An experience, no matter how bad, can either make us stronger, or bring us down. Like you, I prefer to grow stronger and wiser.

Patience.

Last edited by patience; 05/02/07 01:04 AM.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
D
das Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
D
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
Live each day as if it were your last.

Is this possible, patience?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Das, it's not only possible, it's essential.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
P
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
I believe that it is, Das. It is a conscious decision. You think of all that you would wish you had done if you died without that chance, and you do your best to go to sleep at night with a clear conscience.

To me, it means not leaving undone what I can do, and not doing what is harmful. Making the best of each day. Living one day at a time. Letting someone know that they are loved. They might be gone tomorrow, and we could regret our silence for the rest of our lives,- so I guess it also means living each day as if it might be the last your loved ones have too.

I had a friend who died before I was ready to 'make up' after a quarrel. How I wished I'd swallowed my pride and phoned her! I will never make that mistake again. Pride is cold comfort.

I have had a lot of opportunity to think about my last day, because in 2002 I almost had it! Funny thing, but when you are close to death, (for me anyway) suddenly everything comes into focus, and you see what is really important in life. The mind seems to glimpse a new reality.

So that is why I say: "live each day as if it were your last" - that way, you live in reality.

Patience,


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
D
das Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
D
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
Thank you for this loving explanation.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
P
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
Dear Das, you can always PM me if you want to talk. I'm always ready to listen to a fellow survivor.

Keep your chin up!

Patience.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
D
das Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
D
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 674
Thanks.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 184
J
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
J
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 184
Forgiveness is loving someone whether you think they deserve it or not. If we do not forgive others then God does not forgive us. That is because it is hypocrisy to expect it for ourselves and yet think others are less deserving.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,142
Koala
Offline
Koala
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,142
I agree with JCFreak and Patience!! live today like its your last and harm none!

I would add though, that true forgivenes comes from the heart and soul. Just to say i forgive you is not enough. If you truly forgive someone then you dont bring up what you have forgiven! and forgiveing doesnt mean forgetting either if some one takes something of mine and I forgive them for it that does not mean I forget it and let them take something else and become a doormat!! I have to forgive to be forgiven but God doesnt require me to trust the person completely!!! they have to earn back my trust!!!

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
L
BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet
L
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
To me forgiveness is letting go so that specific events, happpenings--even things we've done--don't have any power over us anymore. Sometimes we have to forgive ourselves and others over and over again until full forgiveness is established. It takes time.

Martin Seligman writes about forgiveness--which is so important to happiness in his book "Authentic Happiness."


LEAH MULLEN
LIFE COACHING

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 739
L
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
L
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 739
I think there are different levels of forgiveness. The basic level seems to involve letting go of the anger and having no desire for vengeance. This is a gift to both parties involved.

In the mid-range of forgiveness, we forgive the person but remember the offense. This way, you protect yourself from being hurt or harmed again.

The highest level of forgiveness includes forgetfulness. Your relationship with the offender is restored to as it was before. In the Bible, there is a verse that reads, "...and He will remember your sins no more."

That is true forgiveness.

I don't know if anyone is capable of true forgiveness except for God and Christ...and possibly, mothers.

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
L
BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Parakeet
L
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
Originally Posted By: Lori-Marriage

The highest level of forgiveness includes forgetfulness. Your relationship with the offender is restored to as it was before. In the Bible, there is a verse that reads, "...and He will remember your sins no more."

That is true forgiveness.

I don't know if anyone is capable of true forgiveness except for God and Christ...and possibly, mothers.


I agree with you. I can't see myself ever fully forgetting something that really and truly hurt me or some major blunder that I made myself. But when I look back and feel nothing, I know that I've forgiven. However, as I said sometimes I think I've forgiven and there's a flare up. I'll think back after a number of years and feel hot under the collar all over again. At those times I know I have more work to do. Like Oprah says Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves.

Last edited by leahmullen; 03/05/09 02:01 PM.

LEAH MULLEN
LIFE COACHING

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 17,644
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Offline
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 17,644
Let go of the past hurt, anger and pain. Look back only for reminders of that which you do not wish to repeat, look forward only for the possibilites on your path and live today to it's fullest. Hold good memories dear, and hope near.

The most difficult part of forgiving is the act of letting go. The longer you hold on to the negative memory, the more it controls you. Imagine that bad memory as if it were sitting right by you and rotting away until it disappears and there is nothing left but the healing and the chance for a new beginning.


Walk in Peace and Harmony.
Phyllis Doyle Burns
Avatar: Fair Helena by Rackham, Public Domain
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1
I
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
I
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 17,644
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Offline
Highest Posting Power Known to Humanity
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 17,644
When one's spirit is hurting from another's negative energy, it sometimes helps to be able to forgive the actions of the person and to realize that it is not the person that hurt so much as the lack of consideration of the person who hurt your heart. There is a huge difference between judging and feeling hurt due to a temporary inconsideration of another.


Walk in Peace and Harmony.
Phyllis Doyle Burns
Avatar: Fair Helena by Rackham, Public Domain
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
C
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
C
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5
Forgiving is about letting go and not using it as an excuse for future conflicts. Forgiveness is more than just words but must be exercise. There is no use of holding negativity that has been done along as most likely that it will just hold up any progress.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 17
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 17
Forgiveness is such a troubling topic. Perhaps because of the associations with the language- forgiveness often seems to denote positive feelings, and an abandonment of anger and resentment. Especially when the trespasses (for lack of a better word coming to mind) are heinous, "forgiveness" seems like an impossible gift. The more recent the wound (or the more recent of the re-opening of such a wound), the harder it is to let go of such things. The anger, the resentment, the sadness and pain... affect us (or myself, anyway) physically too. The psycho-somatic takes over everything. It also seems to serve as a reminder that something happened that was not okay, and to give up any of those emotions seems to say that what happened was okay and not worthy of your reaction, thus making it an over-reaction. Holding on to the grief/pain/anger is a way for us to feel some control, a way for us not to forget the happening, a way for us to process what did indeed happen. That being said, i think that one must find within themselves the desire to heal. And when that desire is found, it needs to be cradled and nurtured until it is overwhelming and there is simply no other choice but to release some burdens and welcome a lightness. "Letting go" does seem to suit it a bit, i suppose. But that does *not* mean forgetting or saying that what happened was okay. At least, not to me. It took me many years to reach a point where i could accept any of this in my heart no matter how many people tried to explain it rationally or with simple words. Outlets are needed, ones which are deeply personal. Whatever happened to you needs to be faced and worked-through to make you feel healthy again. Only then can you... how can i put this... for myself, it was almost like putting those memories into a file, and then putting the file into a drawer. The drawer is closed and the filing cabinet is put on a shelf with many others. Some will never, or rarely, be opened again. Some will be opened often. Some will always have a level of rawness to them. But the process of putting those memories *into* the "folders" was like saying good-bye, but less final. It was my way of saying to myself that it was okay to not think about those things anymore. Seeing the people who caused the pain was a trigger for a long while. And sometimes different things will trigger those memories with no warning. For me in many cases, there was an underlying love that was stronger and pulled to me, wanted me to try again. Other times i had to just drop it into the ocean and let it sail away. Put it into the hands of a Higher Power or into the ears of a trusted friend, onto the pages of a journal or splashed onto a canvas. Forgiveness to me... does not mean forgetting. How can one truly forget? Pushing down memories is not healthy, because they will always come back until they are dealt with. Forgiveness means finding the ability and trust within yourself to move on, to move beyond the trials and their scars, and to embrace something positive, light, and freeing. It has absolutely nothing to do with words, especially spoken, in my opinion, but is more of a personal journey or tribute to one's self. There is no need to tell the person they are forgiven if you do not wish to... simply to have a change within is what is needed. Way easier said than done, but so very worth it in the end. i'm not sure if i have even answered your question properly, or if this makes any sense, but i hope that it has helped in some way.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Debbie-SpiritualityEditor 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Brand New Posts
2024 - on this day in the past ...
by Mona - Astronomy - 03/29/24 10:15 AM
Inspiration Quote
by Angie - 03/28/24 03:28 PM
Psalm for the day
by Angie - 03/28/24 03:26 PM
Make It Sew Easier
by Cheryl - Sewing Editor - 03/27/24 04:34 PM
Planner Template Kit - Weekly Layout Template
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:39 PM
Planner Template Kit - Yearly Layout Template
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:37 PM
How to Use Digital Planner Template Kit
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:36 PM
Review - 20 Illustrator Color tips Helen Bradley
by Digital Art and Animation - 03/26/24 07:32 PM
March Equinox to June Solstice
by Mona - Astronomy - 03/26/24 12:27 PM
Hobotrader unleashes never seen opportunity with i
by Jamal molla - 03/26/24 11:55 AM
Sponsor
Safety
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
Privacy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you and updates on any topics you choose to watch. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!


| About BellaOnline | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Editor |
Website copyright © 2022 Minerva WebWorks LLC. All rights reserved.


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5