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Ah.

But first you must accept God, Heaven, Satan and Hell.

Which personally, I don't because I believe them to be mechanisms engineered by those in authority to control the masses (pardon the pun).
The Pope has recently moved the Goalposts on an outdated and discarded view of purgatory and indulgences...He is in essence, seeking to revive something declared outdated and redundant, and no longer accepted or practised...

If that's not massaging the message, to suit the time, I don;'t know what is.
Similarly, I think this Hell, Fire and brimstone for unbelievers is a device founded on, and fuelled by Fear.
And personally, I find that a despicable move.

When you drive are you fearful? no. You are not terrified by every car that comes along but you drive in your own lane, don't blow through traffic lights, etc. because you fear a crash with another vehicle. Your fear of collision is one that guides rather than engulfs. That is how it is supposed to be with God. It is a respectful fear not being terrified. We avoid sin and rebellion to avoid a spiritual car crash.

I saw some poems from Khayam, I like them, hope you enjoy

Before time takes you by surprise
Ask for good red wine and get wise
You are not of gold, don�t believe the lies
You are put to dust, once again you�ll rise.

In life devote yourself to joy and love
Behold the beauty of the peaceful dove
Those who live, in the end must all perish
Live as if you are already in heavens above.

A future fantasy is no more than vain hope
With wishful minds for which we grope
I�d rather improve my current scope
To an upward trend from a downward slope

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I like that Babak. Nice.

Beautiful....
The last line of the second verse reminds me of a saying I have held dear...

"It little matters whether Heaven - as a place - actually exists. the important thing, is to live life with others, as if it did."

I understand and accept that Dave, and other Godly and devout Christians can see no salvation for those who do not accept God or Christ in their hearts. I am, to some extent, also touched by their concern. Some Christians are exceptionally offensive in their message, and may use a tone which might be interpreted as condemnatory or judgemental, which many may find off-putting.
Dave and I have had some extremely constructive discussions on this matter, and we are both fully aware of each others' opinion. It warms my heart to know that, even though our discussions have held challenge, disput and argument, we have a healthy and profound respect for one another, and have never found ourselves resorting to insult, sarcasm, unkindness or rudeness.
He believes in God, and an afterlife, I do not;
he believes in satan, and his personal hell-realm, I do not;
he believes Christ is saviour, I do not. Although I have no doubt as to his existence and holiness... His wisdom and kindness are a shining example to everyone, even so long after his demise.... For his words, deeds and reputation to be so celebrated after all this time is a singularly extraordianry phenomenon.

The above quotation was uttered by a Buddhist Tibetan Rinpoche, and is quoted in a remarkable book called 'The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying'.
It deals with the Western fearful attitude to Death, and quotes from every possible creed and religion, holding them all in high reverence and respect. There is no attempt to discredit or dispute, but it seeks to unify the central core message of all religions, doctrines and creeds, that in order to attain a satisfying Life, and to spend one's days in fruitful serenity, the constant practise we should all strive to embody, is one of Universal Love, Compassion and 'kindredship'.

If such a word exists.

Which i think it should.

Alexandra,
Have you ever heard of the symbolism of the cross in the OLD Testament? I know you are not a believer but I thought you'd find this interesting. I will do this as a list derived from a premise.
The premise; The CROSS is a symbol ( by its shape) of both a vertical and horizontal covenant. The vertical being between God and mankind and the horizontal between man and man. When asked what was the greatest commandment Jesus responded to love the Lord your God with all your heart, etc. ( vertical covenant) He said the second was like unto it. To love you neighbor as you love yourself ( horizontal covenant). This is also reflected in the first four of the ten commandments about God ( vertical) and the last six about man ( horizontal).
Here are the examples:
1. When God made a covenant with Abraham. Abraham cut an animal in two and split the pieces with a trail of blood in between ( horizontal) and God passed a smokepot and torch between the two ( vertical) thus making the symbol of a CROSS.
2. During Israel's captivity in Egypt when the Angel of death was passing over the Hebrews put lamb's blood from one doorpost to another ( horizontal) and then from the door's lintle downward ( vertical) thus making the symbol of the CROSS.
3. When David killed Goliath, Saul's son Johnathan cut a blood covenant with David. They split a lamb in two and strung blood between the two pieces ( horizontal) and then they walked between the pieces ( vertical) thus making the symbol of the CROSS. Interesting, huh?

Hi Dave
Oh nice statment about Cross I think but for me not acceptable cause know for what reason Romans made it. Any way I think human has this ability to make legend with any kind of shape.



Hi Alexandra
Sounds great, It's so nice when people can like and hear each other with different opinion. Humans are members of one community. Not so important we reach to an exact point I think.

Everything that Dave has said is true. God gave us the choice of freewill and if we use that to choose not to believe in Him, then we will be cast into the "lake of fire that God created for the devil and his angels".

I choose to believe in God and I choose to believe in the fact that Christ died for our sins so we wouldn't have to.

As far as evolution goes, that is all hogwash. if we evolved from apes then why are there still apes and why aren't they giving birth to humans?

Why is there a missing link in the evolution chain?

Why did Darwin discount his own theories of evolution in later life?

None of the sciences can prove the theory of evolution. Not Biology, not mathematics, not embryology, not paleontology, not thermodynamics, or Anthropology. None of these sciences can prove evolution.

All life will produce like life. Not one case of spontaneous or accidental generation has been observed.

A noted Anthropologist said, "Missing links are misrepresentations."

Nebraska Man: A tooth used to reconstruct him was found to belong to an extinct pig.

Java Ape Man: Bones used to reconstruct him were found to belong to an elephant

Piltdown Man: Bones used to reconstruct him were found to be the bones of an ape.

Evolutionists say that the species have evolved over a period of 60,000,000 years. In spite of war, famine and plagues, it is estimated the world population has doubled every 168 years. If this is so, and the human race is say, 100,000 years old, then there would be 4,500,000,000,000,000,000 persons in the world today.

Whereas based on today's population and using the 168 year doubling system, we find that 4,500 years ago there would only be a handful of people in the world. Hmmm...the flood occured about 4,500 years ago.

Well, I've rambled enough for now.

Later I will explain how the Chinese written language is another proof of the authenticity of the Bible.

The Chinese language? Wow! Post that quick. I'd love to learn about that! Blessings.

Okay, I will give a couple of quick examples and will elaborate more later on.

The Chinese written language is a system of word pictures that originated 4,500 years ago just after the Great Flood and at the time of the building of the Tower of Babel when God dispersed the people throughout the earth by confusing their language.

This group of Noah's descendants moved Eastward and for the next 2,000 years developed a remarkable culture. Their word pictures had to depict what would be common knowledge so it could be understood by all.

For example:

The character for CREATE is a combination of a figure for "dust or mud", "a mouth"", movement or life" and "walking".

This is exactly what Genesis 2:7 states: God formed (created) man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils (mouth)the breath of live and man became a living (walking) soul.

Another one is the character for BOAT. It clearly shows that the originator of the Chinese language was familiar with Noah's Ark as being the first big boat.

It is a combination of the figure for "vessel" plus "eight" plus person. thusly, the eight members of Noah's family were saved in a vessel - the Ark - (boat)


These are just a couple of examples and will give more later if needed. Their picture words told of creation, the fall of Adam, the great flood, etc... 1,000 years BEFORE Moses wrote the FIRST WORD of Genesis - the first book of the Bible.

You can read more about this as well if you can find the book called "The Discovery of Genesis" by C.H. Kang and Ethel R. Nelson. Concordia Publishing House, 3558 S. Jefferson St. St. Louis, MO. 63118 U.S.A.