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Joined: Jan 2005
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Ok sorry I know I just wrote a book. I went into the dining area where Matt Bird's cage is - it is a well traveled area that we spend a good amount of time in, is well lit by natural light and no drafts - anyhow I wanted to check on him and he was up in the corner (top) with his wings spread again as if he was using them for balance - hanging on with both feet and his beak as well. Just sitting there making sounds of distress. I placed him on the floor of his cage and even changed the paper in the bottom of his cage so he would have nice clean paper to be on - put water and food down there for him and he is just hangin out. I have noticed also and failed to mention that he keeps his right foot curled and uses only one of the toes, the others he keep curled while gripping with only one toe. While standing flat on the floor he does open all three toes.

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Two more replies I received - now I'll mention your last post to my experts.

"Do I want to suggest PDD?
Heavy metal tests. Tell them they are separate and wouldn't be done in
normal blood work. I would do this test.
I don't have a heck of a lot of faith in the vet if they are saying
vitamins in the water.
I also question doing injections of Baytril for a questionable bacteria.
Some bacteria is normal. Baytril can also cause seizures."

and

"Did they test him for zinc and lead poisoning?"


Mavis
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One more thought:

"My first feeling is metal toxicity. I would also line the bottom of the cage with towels so that if he does fall, he falls onto something soft.

My vet also requires payment on the day of service, but in an emergency, I'm sure she would make an exception. This is an emergency and I would be calling around to see if this bird could be seen by someone."


Mavis
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Amoeba
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Amoeba
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Margarita...hun, my heart goes out to you! I sincerely understand about the money, but I would call your vet back today and tell them what is going on with Matt!!! Maybe see if he could go in for observation...and yes, it would probably be too stressful to take him on a trip right now...can you stay with him? It sounds like things are progressing so I wouldn't waste much time...I know this is so stressful...I'm not even there and I'm stressed! I will say a little prayer for Matt and you! Oh and don't forget to place a thick towel in bottom of his cage...please keep me posted! ((((hugs))))

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The vet and I discussed metal toxicity and after I explained that Matt's time out of his cage is always very well supervised as we have a toddler and Matt bites, and after discussign the manufacturer of his cage she didn't think it was a real possibility. We specifically discussed lead and zinc.
The vet had instucted us to give the calcium syrup and see if that made a difference and to check in with her in a few days.
I wanted to add also that whatever the problem is it is not a continuous problem. At no time is acting cmopeltely like himslef but there are more times during the day that he acts more normal, vocalizing, apparently coordinated (I don't know about his flying as we are trying to prevent him from flying at the same time we don't want to add the stress of clipping his wings just now). After I put him on the floor of his cage last night he seemed collected, shaking his feathers out and then grooming himself. After a while he climbed back up his cage and perched for the night with apparently no problems and this morning he has seemed ok all morning he is right now peeling grapes and eating them. Someone mentioned that Baytril caused seizures. Before we managed to track down an avian specialist in our area (actually not in our area she is almost 2 hours away) we had taken Matt to our equine vet as they also do limited work on birds. We were given Baytril to giv ehim orally at that time, he went through 2 courses of this over approximately a one month time period. It was after that failed to work that we were able to find an avian specialist and take him up, and she put him on the Baytril injections. Ok thinking back he was a little uncoordinated but not falling down in his cage prior to being put on the Baytril - having some problems flying to his destination sometimes crashing but not falling down in his cage. Is it possible that the Baytril would still be affecting him? It has been about 3 weeks since we were done with the injections.
His cage is quite large and I don't have many towels so instead I line his cage with 2 folded flannel sheets and then put paper over that - it is not soft like a pillow landing but it is certainly a lot better than the metal floor.
I am going to call the vet today and see if she thinks I should bring him up and if so will she take payments and if she doesn't think he should come up I will see if I can find another vet. If he doesn't go to the vet, I am really torn between leaving him here where my mom will come twice a day to feed and water him and spend some time with him (he knows my mom she stops by frequently and she has cared for him before) or take him with us. The drive to the condo would be shorter than the drive to the vet so the driving wouldn't be any more stressful than going to the vet - and I could keep him in the bedroom in a corner, I could even keep him covered for that matter to keep him queit. He has been to these condos every year for 6 years now but I don't know if he actually would remember being there.

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Amoeba
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Margarita...I am sure you are torn between leaving and staying with him! I don't think I would take him with you as it probably would be too stressful...but I would make sure your mom knew what to look out for and had the vets number handy! Could you board him with the vet for observation by any chance? ($10 a day at my vet) Had anyone mentioned chemical poisoning...the kind they spray fruits with? (You had said he was eating grapes)... I have thought of you often today and hope to get to the bottom of this soon and Matt-bird on the road to good health again! You said he seemed to be content sitting on the couch with you...I would make sure to comfort him as much as possible...it'll make you feel better too! TC and keep me posted! LYDIA*

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Margarita - could you tell us where you are located? Maybe someone here could recommend a good avian vet in your area that you could take Matt too. What you've been telling us is very scary and I'm extremely worried about this bird.

One more comments from one of my friends:

Conferring with a vet about heavy metal is not doing the test, nor does it mean the bird couldn't have gotten into something.


Mavis
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Yes Mavis, I am in Western Washington. I am willing to drive a fair distance to have him examined - the avian vet we have taken him to was one and a half hours. I don't want to disclose the name of the vet I took him to already because I don't want to lose any business for her if any of the posters here live in this area. I don't know alot about parots (obviously) and she doesn't explain a whole lot so perhaps she is assuming I am doing certain things or know certain things I don't know- she seemed very knowledgable however she wasn't really all that interested in listening to anything my husband and I had to say. For example, I started to ask her about high fat foods and what ones might be best to help him get stronger and gain some weight back from being sick and she interrupted me and went on a tirade about not taking any foods away that he was used to - well tirade is a strong word but she doesn't have good bedside manners thats for sure. Anyhow, she didn't really help me. I am not taking any foods away - just want to suppliment with fodos that will help him to gain some strength back. I have been handfeeding Matt hard boiled egg yolks, and peanutbutter and sesame seed butter in addition to the seed/nut/fruit mix he has always eaten. The vet has told me that this really isn't the ideal diet for him but until he is feeling better I should not change his seed mix. We decided to leave him home, and again his cage bottom has been well padded, I put food and water for him at the bottom of his cage as well as in the holders and my mom stopped by 3 times yesterday and this morning to check on him with instructions to call me if he was acting worse (she sees him all the time as she lives close by - knows what his behavior has been like lately) even so I worried about him all weekend and called from the cell to check on him twice. The vet was in apts every time I tried calling Friday and all I got was the tech returning my calls. The calcium syrup that was prescribed had to be ordered and then after thinking it was all set for me to pick up Friday I found out that it is no longer distributed period so will be calling my vet again frist thing tomorrow to ask what to do now. The vet thought that Matt may have had that infection for sometime and I am wondering if perhaps he is just very weak. Poihnding my head against the wall trying to figure this out. The vet seems interested in helping me, but says she can't really help me until she sees him again and runs an EKG and x-rays and whatever else she may decide are necessary at the time - I am asking the vet if I can't just bring him up and make payment arrangements and just do all the tests now instead of waiting to do them as I can afford them. Have about $500 invested in this already. I don't know what she will say though - she made it very clear when we had to make payments on the first apt that we were not to expect it in the future. Husband took Matt out and just held him on the couch for awhile upon our return and he is in his cage now acting fairly normal - eating grooming, fluffing feathers etc.

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Cavel Offline OP
Amoeba
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Margarita...glad to hear you made it back without any complications with Matt-bird! I'll bet he was glad to see you too! :love: Vets, like doctors, can be so uncaring sometimes..especially if they think you might have trouble paying them! That just burns me up! One way to check to see if Matt is loosing weight is to feel his tummy where his legs are attached or if the area around his breastbone is sunk in abit...changing his diet would stress him, but I see nothing wrong with adding some extra vitamins in the form of treats as you have been doing! With his strength up, he will be better able to fight off whatever this is! At any rate, I would keep on that vet until she helped you or at least could figure out what was causing the problem! And as I said before...comfort Matt and let him know how much you love him! Keep me posted...sending you hugs and LUCK! Lydia*

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Hi Margarita
First, by western Washington do you mean the state, or Washington DC? If the state, near Seattle or further south?

While I agree with your vet that you don't want to work on changing the base diet right now, I would really suggest you do something other then give egg yolks, peanut butter and the sesame seed butter. If you are worried about nutrition, and want to hand feed something, I would suggest you go get a formulated hand feeding formula. This will have the vitamins and minerals necessary for growth.

The eggs are very high in protein and of course, the butters in fat. I would worry about causing other problems like fatty liver disease.

If you need and want weight gain, give some higher carbohydrate things, like birdie bread, which most birds love and is good for them. Serve this warm.

Have you tried sprouting the seeds? Sprouts are far better then just dry seed and most birds will accept them fairly well.

The ideal way to know if your bird is losing or gaining weight, is to purchase a scale. This does not have to be expensive. You can usually get a cheap digital scale at Walmart. You just need 1 that will weigh up to a 1 1/2 lbs....but whatever. Even if its inaccurate, is usually inaccurate all the time, and will still serve its purpose of showing gain or loss.

Just a few thoughts for you.
Gay

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