BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Missing & Exploited Children Helicopter Parents = Are Modern Kids Too Coddled?

Some might blame 9/11, but the problem of over-coddling kids began way before that. Colleges are now reporting that incoming *freshmen* are so dependant on mommy and daddy that many parents set up their email, retain the passwords, and want THEIR (i.e. the parents) information on all student ID cards and contact cards. The parents want to still keep an eye on their babies.

In the old days, parents would drop their kids off at college. In current days, parents go to all the orientation sessions, go hang out in the rooms and want to stay. The colleges don't know what to do about this. One college hired bouncers to remove the parents (gently).

It's not just 9/11 - parents are having fewer kids and are treating each child as a precious egg that must be protected. Helmets. Car seats. Safety glasses. Kids can't play outside or have free time, because they could get into trouble. I actually heard that at a local town meeting, that kids had to have structured after school activities because otherwise who knows what they'd get into.

I was over a friend's house yesterday and they have a 10 month old. The mom was worried every time the child went near a table, and the dad was saying "He has to learn to duck - how else will he grow up?" Of course I felt very badly because while the child was near me, he was sitting and rolled over onto his back, thumping his head on the carpet. I suppose I should have caught him, I didn't realize he would roll like that! Now the mom will probably never invite me back again ...

When does it go from "loving care" to "overprotective zealousness"?

Lisa,
Along with coddling kids, the fact is parents and society no longer seems to hold individuals accountable for their actions and the consequences anymore.

We livein a "Nothing I do is my fault" society, where excuses run rampant, ...I had a bad childhood, I had a bad day, I lost my job, I am ADHD, I take medication and it affected the way I was thinking, my dog ate his tail and then died, my cat licked my laptop and erased my homework, my laptop exploded and purple mice invaded my room...etc...etc...etc...

Parents coddle or spoil their children for the first 12-15 years of their life, until suddenly the child is big enough to cause them problems, and the parent can no longer handle the child's behavior. Suddenly the child ends up in my acute crisis stabilization hospital unit with out of control, impulsive, high risk behavior, threatening the siblings, parents or school mates and the parent/s expect us to fix them in the 3-7 days insurance gives us to stabiize them.
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This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Children are not possessions or pets. A parent's job is to prepare their offspring to be functioning, independent adults. Why does nobody know that anymore?

My kids hate I am a child adolescent Behavioral medicine RN they do not get simple groundings and timeouts they get written assignments and reports to do on their infractions.

One time my son was just 5 and he was given a timeout in his room. He stomped down to his room and slammed his door HARD. Then did it AGAIN. AGAIN. AGAIN. Ohhhhhhhhhh. I did not say a word as he continued to SLAM his door. I got up grabbed a hammer and screwdriver and as he opened his door to SLAM it there I stood silently.

The LOOK on his face said "OMG I pushed her over the abyss I think she is going to beat me to death with the hammer!!!!!"

He STOPPED in cold stance, weakly said hi mom I gently escorted him aside and came in and closed the door and you could just see him gulp as he thought this is the end "Elizabeth here I come!"

I tappped the hinges and took his door off and away I went carrying his door as he stared wide eyed......"are you going to throw my door out?"

I said I can't discuss this right now your in time out. I put it on the back porch for 2 weeks and when I put back up he has not slammed it since.

Cretive parenting! <img src="/images/graemlins/heart.gif" alt="" />

oh those are awful broad statements and despite what the media might tell you I don't believe for a second that the majority of parents are like that.

as for the parents of the 10 mo old, sounds like it's their first child. I was like that wioth my first too...now I'm about to have 5 and if no one is bleeding it's a good day. Give her some time, she'll lighten up!

Meg

I think there is just too much going on. Parents are scared of the things that their kids may encounter. In a society where you need to be more on guard than before, for different reasons, it�s hard to leave your child to it.

When there is only one child involved or the child is difficult, parents do miss a lot of parenting Q�s.

Not to mention, most people have let life get too busy. Schedules related to work, commuting, sports, etc play a big part. Not to mention the fact that everyone is running around exhausted and numbed out by stress. These things make it hard to be an effective parent. When things are going smoothly at home, the �played� parents are usually the last to know about poor behavior.

I know (well I theorize) that down here in Georgia, all the over-protectedness of children started when we had that horrific rash of child abduction/murders back in the early 80's (I think - I was just a kid back then). Parents went nuts, with fairly good reason, because at the time it seemed like you couldn't tell who was going to go missing.

The world had been so innocent, kids walking to school, but now they could disappear from the same store you were shopping in! Or (does anyone remember?) the little boy who was molested in the bathroom while his mother stood outside waiting for him.

Ted Bundy went after an entire college sorority. So even there the kids weren't safe.

I'm not arguing that we need to let our kids take bumps, make mistakes, and learn to grow up on their own; but it is just a very scary world with some sick and deranged people in it. And I don't care how old they get - they will always be our children. (My mother still wants me to call her if she knows i'm going to be traveling for more than 6 hrs. !)

The world is changing very fast.
Soon many more things will change.

All the negativity surprises me. There are bad things going on, sure, but there ALWAYS have been...we just have the media now. Our kids are in just as must danger as we adults are. Keep an eye on your kids and teach them how they are to act and what to do if there is a problem and be happy.

There are far more wonderful things out there than bad.

Meg

Meg,

I do not believe children have always grown up in such a threatening environment. Neighborhoods and families were closer, by closer I mean we lived in the same area usually on the same block or in the same city. If you did something wrong, even if it was a minor wrong, like picked an apple off the crabby old cat lady's tree, chances are by the time you got home your mother knew about it because one of the neighbors who saw you do it picked up the phone and called her and ratted you out.

As a kid we rode our bikes around the block, across the town, walked to and from school, to and from the store, park and never thought twice about it. Today my kids carry a walkie talkie and cell phone and walk together to go 3 blocks around the corner to a friends house, and I am not being paranoid. I will not allow them to walk to one friend's house as it passes 2 sex offenders houses.

Everyone in a neighborhood knew everyone for blocks. Now it is a rarity if you know the neighbors on both sides and in front and in back of you, much less two or three houses down the street. Families are spread across the nation and the world with jobs. Children do not have the older generational role models other genres did. Kids went to college got degrees and then took the best jobs, even if that meant moving from illinois to california or new york.

Adults have a lifetime of experience behind them to react to a situation that a young child does not have in a bad situation. You are right in teaching them is key to keeping them safe.

Go to www.mapsexoffenders.com and map the sex offenders in your area.

Helicopter parents are a fact of life. So much so that many colleges have staff attend training sessions on hiring to learn how to deal with these parents. In the US, once a "child" reaches 18, he/she must physically consent--usually in writing--to give a parent access to any college related information. FERPA requirements, thankfully, can be used to help teach parents their new boundaries--and its often a very hard lesson.

First off I want to say Erica Lynn I love your parenting style... I got to remember the door one.

I don't do for my kids what they can do for themselves because to do so would mean they couldn't live without me. My brother went through this. Growing up he was told he wasn't good in school and as a result he received special treatment in school, ie tests read to him. My mother helped out so much that when he only received a B on his homework assignment she was very put out, in reality it was her B as she did the assignment for him. She did everything for him. Once he moved north to take Forest Tech he didn't have mommy to do his homework so he had to. Results - B average. Then he decided to upgrade his math and physics so he could get a BC Hydro Lineman Apprenticeship. In a very short time he finished his Math 12 and Physics 12 and another I think, guess what - B average all on his own. Too bad they didn't let him do it in high school, he may have been successful quicker and a lot more sure of his intellectual abilities.

My mom did so much for him that at the age of 27 or so when he needed to get his forms and resume in to BC Hydro she gathered them all up and asked her sister to submit them for him because mom had to go out of town. Her sister told her that he was a big boy now and could find his own jobs.

There were times when mom was visiting and my brother would call to ask how much in his chequing account... I could go on and on. The good news is though that since BC Hydro has had him living in areas away from her he's gotten very self sufficent.

I do not want my children to be like this. I want them to have the skills they need to into the world with their head held high and if I died tomorrow they'd still be successful. After all I'm their parent, its my job to teach them how to be sufficent independent successful adults.

I believe there are a number of reasons for these Helicopter Parents:

Modern kids are not coddled too much, if anything they're left on their own to much. Parents give their little kids to daycares and nannies to raise. It's only when the kids grown up and off to college that they realize oh no I missed out and try to latch on.

A lot of these parents are so busy being selfish, wanting to relive their college years or they missed out on college and want the chance to live it through their kids. They don't love selflessly enough to allow their kids to have their college experience themselves.

Some parents that say they are at the colleges because they fear their kids will get hurt are suffering from some sort of anxiety disorder. They spend so much time in front of the Television watching the news and the CSI type shows (which I love by the way) that they see danger everywhere and then start to worry too much. They then teach their children these types of behaviors.

People are missing God and without him they feel vulnerable and alone. If you don't believe that there is a higher power watching out for you and you think your on your own the world is a very scary place.

As for the world being a scary place, it is much better today than it was at the turn of the century. Everyone keeps saying oh the world is getting worse. Its changing not getting worse imagine if you'd been an immigrant coming to America what life would have been like. Or a family in Europe during the world wars. TV is a new media and the censors have become lenient not to show us the world is worse but to show us how the world really is. Anyone grow up with Wally and the Beaver? My house wasn't like the Cunninghams. The Good old days are in some ways way better then today and in others worse.

This is a fabulous topic!

There is the...they are left on their own too much theory and..the lets put them into every activity we can to make them a well rounded individual...and they end up being exhausted. Mom rushes them to soccer, then dance, then violin, then drama club etc. We try and pack 25 hours into a 24 hour day and these are kids who are 5, 6, 7, ets on up.

What happened to letting kids be kids. My sons favorite past time is playing in the dirt in the back yard and attacking the trees with mysterious weapons he makes out of sticks, toys, my cooking utensils (breathing deeply) and various other items he high jacks from the house when mom is not looking.

The other day it was a box of staples?????????????? I guess b/c they glinted in the sun????? (sigh)

One day when he was 5, he was out there with a dust pan and a whisk broom, sweeping up dust pans of dirt and filling up his red wagon for hours. I was watching him as I took out the garbage and he looked up and excitedly said..."Hi Mom!! I am cleaning your dirt!!!!" I said keep up the good work buddy!!! God I love my 3-in-1 child. He is all boy! However, I usually find that dirt on the bottom of the tub after his nightly bath, lol.

"Modern kids are not coddled too much."

Interesting. I find the opposite is entirely true. Most of the kids I encounter, especially the teen/pre-college set, don't ever (or hardley ever) have to: clean their own rooms, make any of their own meals, work to pay for anything, walk anywhere for any reason, or fight any of their own battles (whether with siblings, friends or elsewhere). If anything, whether or not the kiddos have ever been in day-care or not, mom/dad are over-involved in everything they do in life.

I don't see it as an overcompensation issue, I see it as a locus of control issue.

For all the expert advice out there today many parents are too busy to find it or care about it. Many think I know better. Many are so busy that it is easier to do then to fight with the kids to get them to do it.

Other things are more important to parents today then teaching their children to be self sufficent. I feel sorry for the kids as they try to make it in the work force.

Here's q question.

My son is 7 years old - grade 2 and the school is .8 of a kilometer away, or about a 10-15 minute walk. I can easily drop him off before work but my husband gets so busy with his work (he works from home) that he won't be able to pick him up most of the time.

So, is he old enough to walk home on his own?

Age, IMHO, would have little to do with this issue. More important to me would be: how safe is your neighborhood, how aware is your child, are there other children/parents walking the same direction that he could walk with, do people look out for each other in your community, what sort of traffic areas would he have to cross, etc.

Lets see,

Well our neighbourhood is upper middle class, the only problems have come from bored teenagers.

He has to cross a 4 lane drive at the school and another 4 lane blvd.

The school has almost 500 kids K-Grade 3 and since 2/3s of the neighbourhood is within walking distance there are parents and kids everywhere. I wouldn't say that he has anyone to walk all the way with though as our neighbours kids are bussed to other schools outside the neighbourhood. They get out so early that even when I'm home early - 3:00 he's already home.

He has lots of friends in the school and I know a lot of people in the neighbourhood. I would hope that we look out for each other but I wouldn't say it was like when I grew up. Most are too involved in their own lives to really pay attention to others.

I don't feel it's unsafe, I know he's mature enough, most forget he's only 7 not only because of his size but also because of his behavior, reading, and vocabulary. He's so cautious that he wouldn't do anything if it really scared him. He has the walkie talkie to talk to his dad if he feels there are any issues.

Try to set him up with a neighbor kid and have Dad meet them halfway.

In today's world I do not see where anyone working from home would be so busy they cannot take 10-20 minutes out of a work day to drive 0.8 miles to pick up a seven year old child after school.

I apologize for my insecurity in this world but I do not believe any child should walk to or from school alone, no matter how mature, especially crossing 4 lane roads.

You do not know what sex offenders live in your neighborhood. You may know what registered sex offenders live in your neighborhood, if you go to the National Sex Offender Registry Website www.nsopr.gov and check by zipcode or go to www.mapsexoffenders.com and put in your street address.

However, it is important to realize the majority of sex offenders move around to avoid registering, and you have to consider the offenders who are visiting a relative in your neighborhood (permanently).

Sex offenders are just one danger of walking to school alone another is bullying from older kids, fast cars driven by teenagers, threat of dogs running lose just to name a few.

If your son had a friend or walking buddy EVERYDAY for the full length of the way from school to home AND the walkie talkie I might reconsider.

Life is too short to gamble with the safety of a child, but that is just my humble opinion.

I would only have my child walk to or from school alone if there was no other option available.

We live in Canada -- not sure if we even have a registry let alone if it's public information.

Bully's aren't an issue. His school is out before any other and he's as big as most kids 1-2 years older than him. We've put him in bully proof training and is Hap ki Do instructer continues to add bully proofing and street smarts to his lessons.

We've also talked about all the various issues out there and have educated him on street smarts, using a number of different methods, books or theories out there. We've talked to him about keeping an eye out for others who are walking home from school that he can walk with.

I'm not too concerned about the road, I taught him how to cross at the age of 4 and always have given him opportunities to practice on his own. He takes the most public way home so there are lots of eyes around.

I know some people along the way and he knows which houses he should go to if there is a problem and he needs to find somewhere safe to go.

On the days I can get home early enough I'm going to see who I know walking that way. From what I know now though most kids we know around us go to a different school or take the bus, we are so close to the bus limit that not many would walk as far as us.

You soumd as if you have covered all the bases. My kids use walkie talkies when they walk to a friends house around the corner. That is a wonderful idea! Test them out and make sure they work the full distance.

I found this out when I did a search on Canada's Sex Offender Registry www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/techops/nsor/index_e.htm apparently they also do have a National Registry. You have taught me something new today.

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Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

It's an interesting discussion. I don't think most people can afford nannies, and while many people put kids into day care, I don't think that's much different than putting them into school. It's still a structured environment with a teacher telling them what to do. Kids are never on their own to make their own decisions, the parents are always making decisions for them either directly or through the day cares they have watching over them.

Here's an example. There's a commercial running on TV with the father telling their child every second "don't cross the street" and "get up and give your seat to that woman" and so on. Every decision, the father is telling the kid what to do. Then the kid is offered drugs and the father isn't there. And the tag line is, "if you don't tell him what to do, what WILL he do?" As if - unless you tell your child exactly how to act in any given situation, he'll make the wrong choice.

It really bugs me. If you teach your child responsibility, he can make decisions by himself based on values, not because you kept telling him what to do.

My mother made a lot of my decisions in my life and I had to learn how to make my own not because it was the opposite of what she said, but because it was the right choice.

My children have always had choices, whether as simple as what they will wear to whether or not they will do their chores. Every decision has a consequence that they need to experience, you wear shorts when its snowing you'll freeze when you go outside. You don't do your chores, I don't do extra stuff for you and you don't get any allowance etc.

When my child was 4 he was taught to cross a busy street by himself. When he was 5 he was taught to go to and come home from the bus(1/2 block) by himself. At 6 he was allowed to go to the park (@ bus stop) and come home from the store (two blocks) on his own. Now at 7 he goes and comes home from school on his own. So many times parents don't let their kids do stuff and then are surprised when they are suppost to be old enough to do something but can't do it.

I refuse to do something for my children that they can do themselves. They are asked questions to help them make a decision and so they can understand how to make a decision.

I disagree about the majority of American kids being coddled too much. While *some* are, I can tell you as an experienced school teacher that too many children today are latchkey or daycare kids with parents who need to be more involved rather than less.

Hmmmm, but collleges are reporting this problem is on the rise -

http://www.careerjournal.com/columnists/workfamily/20050729-workfamily.html

so these parents are coming from somewhere ...

Maybe it's a difference of parents whose kids go to college, vs those who do not?

Most of the parents I know aren't latchkey at all - they are overtaxed with personally running their kids around to boy scouts, soccer and horseback riding. So it sounds like a different crew. The ones I know are definitely all on the "college track".

So true. You can give kids choices from the very beginning. Our 4 year old makes several decisions for himself each day. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sure, they're not life/death situations...LOL More like which clothes to wear, which breakfast food he wants, etc...

I agree that too many children grow up without being allowed to make choices, but I think that's because of controlling parents rather than parents who coddle their kids.

When I taught 5th grade, I often found that by the time the children got to me, they wanted to be "walked through" everything. In school they are told what to do every second--even when to PEE. They are not supposed to talk or get out of their seats, etc...

Anyway, my fifth graders usually came to me with littl self-confidence, wanting to knwo EXACTLY what I wanted for the assignment and so forth. It usually took a few months for them to start thinking outside the box in my room (which is what I wanted). Some never did.

Sorry for the tangent!

Jan

Wow. Here we have so many pedophiles and sex offenders that it's just not safe to do these things, unfortunately.

Lisa,

I'm SURE that's the difference. Any college study is going to be skewed.

Anybody have the stats for how many American students even START college much less finish?

Jan

Oh...I forgot to mention that about 15 million American children (1 in 4) live in poverty and aren't being driven around by "Soccer Mom" and aren't in all kinds of activities, etc. These kids also will have to beat the odds if they want to go to college.

Well, they say 80% of 10th graders are planning on going to college, which is way, way higher than ever in history. So kids are really seeing the value of a college education.

I'm always amazed that 100 years ago they wouldn't let women in colleges because "our brains couldn't take it" - and now we are the majority in college!! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

They say that the ones who actually go into college is 64%, often because of pregnancy and financial issues. So it's sad that 16% of kids want to go but get stymied, so that's who we have to help out. Still, though, considering that back in the 40s, most girls were blocked from even trying, I consider it great that we get of kids 64% in <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bob and I were just talking about our high schools. He went to a Jesuit school in NY and they had a college rate of pretty much 100%. Mine had a rate of 99% I think. It never even crossed our minds, not to go to college.

It's interesting that a study just came out saying kids do not get overstressed with too many activities in modern times. The parents all reacted to it saying "Hey what do you mean??" But the study people said, look. A big quadrant of kids don't even get ANY activities still - you just aren't paying attention to those kids. And the richer kids who get to go horseback riding and soccer and such *like* those activities and have fun at them - it's the parents who are stressed out organizing and driving around. The kids are enjoying it.

Right...I agree that most kids are enjoying the activities--but not all.

I'm the mom of two small children and I've recently had some experiences that were truly shocking.

David (4) asked to play soccer. We couldn't do soccer that season but we did basketball. When that ended we did soccer..

Anyway, we went through the YMCA and did it purely because he WANTED to try it. It wasn't about competing. It was just for fun and I was ready to make a coach change that first night if we had gotten someone who was too focused on competing.

The coaches were great both seasons. I was really impressed. They were volunteers--dads with kids on the team. There was no keeping score on the preschool league and everything was really laid back.

SOME PARENTS were the exception to the rule though. There's one dad I will never forget. His kid was 4 like mine. He seemed to have a chip on his shoulder and even announced that he owned a local restaurant in town when I introduced myself the first night.

Anyway, his little boy was NOT interested in playing soccer. From day ONE you could tell he didn't want to be there. The parents forced him out on the field and threatened him with spankings if he didn't get out there and be "part of the team" when the kid obviously was tired/cranky whatever. This happened every week. The entire practice session or game the father yelled at his kid to get out there, to play right, to kick the ball, etc...The mom was there too and, while she wasn't AS pushy, she certainly wasn't helping the situation.

Another dad I saw coaching basketball actually would put his hands on his son (while he was crying) and push him down the field if his 3 year old didn't run. I sat there in tears watching this little boy cry while his dad shoved him and told him to get out there and "have fun" over and over again.

My point is that while I think a lot of children enjoy activities, often times parents enroll little ones (and sometimes even big ones) in activities THEY are interested in with no regard to the child's individual interests. I saw this as a classroom teacher too. Girls talked about dance lessons they hated, etc....

I definitely think parents try to steer their kids towards certain activities. Not all girls want to take ballet and not all boys want to play soccer. That first little boy I described was the opposite of my very active son. He was more introverted and preferred to look closely at ants he found on the ground, etc...He probably would have preferred art classes or maybe even just some quiet family time.

I'm not really disagreeing, Lisa. Just sharing my experiences! I do think kids generally enjoy these things--it all depends on whether or not the parents are pushing them and focusing on competition rather than on just growing, learning, and having fun!

Hmmm... where to start... I guess I'll bring the topic back to "Helicopter Parents," which as Lisa pointed out, is truly a phenomenon of higher education. The term refers to the parent who insists on hovering over a "child" who is enrolled in higher ed. in some capacity. This is the parent that insists on calling the institution to find out whether junior has enrolled in the "right" classes, whether he is attending class, why he hasn't earned an A, etc. As these are college students, a college level study of behavior is more than appropriate.

As Lisa pointed out, 1) this is an actual phenomenon and 2) it is increasingly common.

It's VERY doubtful that these parents are the ones who were "disinterested" in their children or had little time for their children in times past. 12 years of experience working with "at risk" students, workplace issues and higher education tells me this just isn't the case.

It's highly likely that the parents who insist on hovering over their college aged children are those that refuse to relinquish control--they've taken care of things for their child all the way through high school, why give up that control now?

If you like "reality" based TV, then you might take a look at Alexandra Robbins book "The Secret Life of Overachievers." It gives a bit of insight into what goes on behind the scenes in nice, two-parent families, where achievement and success are stressed above all else. Helicopter parenting is one of the offshoots of this type of child rearing.

I see several other issues in posts here I'd love to see taken over to the Colleges forum.

I would be happy to discuss whether or not college is necessary for all students (only 22-30 percent of jobs in the US actually require a degree); the successes of students from single-parent households; "average" college going rates (these differ significantly by MSA, state, region, country); the relationship between education and income (income steps up for every 30 hours of college and a certificate holder in a high tech career can make more money than a bachelor's degree holder in education) or any other topic related to higher education (please do check out my bio on the colleges site).

Though its not on topic, I would like to state that I think we should be careful when making assumptions about single parents or parents in poverty. The "data" (and as an ABD doctoral student, I am very fond of data) doesn't always paint an accurate picture of reality. I come from a single parent, female headed household where AGI didn't even hit the poverty line most years, but every opportunity was taken to insure that I met academic milestones and pursued college. Working with inner-city youth on a daily basis in a minority-majority state, histories similar to mine are more normal than not.

I think the majority of children these days are over protected, they get pocket money, no chores have to be done for it. They eat their meals, don't clear the table or wash or wipe a dish. Putting clothes in the wash basket seem to be a thing of the past. I am describing my 12 year old grand son, I am sure not all children are like him but I am just as sure he is not the only one. His brother who is 3 is still breast fed, his mother can not go to the toilet with out him screaming.

I think they have problems teaching them to grow up and give them some responsibility.

Exactly, toe. Mom and dad manage everything and little is left to the child. This hovering then continues into the "child"'s adulthood and creates a major problem for both the student and the school.

I wonder sometimes if parents also do this when their "child" takes his/her first job. If they're calling the professors and administration at the colleges to check up on their "child," are they also doing this with employers? Can you imagine?

I only brought up the poverty issue because I choose to teach only at schools that serve low-income students.

We were required to take extra inservices to help us understand the "Culture of Poverty" and how it affects our students and their parents. So I was speaking of my experiences with my students. It was near impossible to get their parents to conferences--not because they didn't care but because of circumstances such as lack of transportation and work schedules.

My children came to school with shoes that were falling apart, clothes that didn't fit, and so forth. I can remember several times when I went out and purchased items they needed such as sneakers.

These kids definitely weren't coddled and that's why I brought it up.

Interesting about only 20 to 30% of jobs requiring a college degree. Do you just mean 4 year degrees?? What about technical colleges?

I ask because we're moving to another state partly because we are unable to save $$ for our children's college years since FL is so expensive.

I work on a university campus and yes, parents are a problem because they do NOT allow their young adult (child) to become independent. Young adults need to discipline themselves i.e. showing up for classes & doing homework on their own. They also need to learn how to talk to their professors directly instead of having a parent conference. We've had cases where parents have attended the job fairs hosted on campus to submit resumes and talk to employers on their adult (child's) behalf. The employers want to hire adults, period.
Lastly and most importantly, if things work out the way they should, the parents will die first. Therefore, it is your duty as parents to leave behind self sufficient adults who can take care of their lives.

I think society is not holding kids accountable. We are raising a group of kids who point fingers. We are also raising kids on a stop watch. My son started PreK this yr. When I pick my son up, they have asked me to pull up with my son out of the seat belt, so they can put other kids in their cars, because it takes too long for me to do his seatbeat up. Other people are waiting. It doesn't matter that it is against the law or dangerous. There are other people waiting. I don't think I am overly protective, but I don't understand why everyone is in too big of a hurry to worry about safety. But these are the same people who won't let my son on the slide because he fell off one time.

I think parents need to slow down and talk with their kids and not wait until college to be concerned. Teach them as children right from wrong and by the time they are 18, they know.

Jan:

Please see my post, Is a degree really required? in the Colleges forum.

Well, frankly, i think kids need and deserve to be coddled more and longer. I wouldn't call it coddling, but since that was the word originally I'll use it.

Today kids are shipped away from home as soon as they can walk, or earlier. Daycare, preschool, school, sports, camps, college. When does the child get to stop and enjoy being coddled? Kids are sent away before they are able to form their own attachments and personalities, before they know what is right from wrong.

I think we're forgetting about all the kids who aren't coddled because they don't have parents who are home or care enough to coddle them. When you send your child away you lose that control, plain and simple. There is no such thing as weekend parenting.

A person can complain that today is so much worse than 50 yrs ago as much as they want, but that isn't the problem and doesn't matter because it's NOT 50 yrs ago. It comes down to lousy parenting, from the over-coddling to the negligent, it works both ways.

Meg

By the time an individual reaches the age of legal majority--the age at which he/she can legally vote, sign contracts, serve in the military, and some places drink--and likely even a bit before this time, parents need to step back and realize that their "child" may still be "their child," but is no longer "a child." Young adults are fully capable--or would be if their parents allowed--of making their own decisions and mistakes.

Growing up with one or more parents at home, or a "soccer mom", or a nuclear family unit does not guarantee a satisfactory environment for a child. Neither does growing up in a single-parent household, or with parents who can't be involved in everything, or a non-traditional household mean that a child is automatically set up for failure.

Sure, let "kids" be kids. But, please, let your young adults be adults!

There has to be a balance. Sometimes you have to care enough to say no too.

As for the whole "culture of poverty" concept, which boils down to an elitist belief that people are poor because they are poor and an individual who grows up in a culture of poverty is destined for a life of poverty unless something rather dramatic takes place--I throw my lot in with with Julius Wilson. This "explanation" of poverty, especially in urban areas, is too simplistic; and is countered by the multitudinous examples of successes arising from urban poverty.

If you tell a child "you can" and you provide them with examples, demonstrate a moral life, give them love, feed their hopes and dreams, then that which is imagined can become reality. We have too many students holding back because some authority figure somewhere, who sat in on a "culture of poverty" training to better "understand" what life is like for the urban poor, told them they'd have a very difficult time succeeding or too many hurdles to overcome to ever be successful.

Tell kids they can and they will.

You're forgetting, however, how many actually graduate HIGH SCHOOL? That has to be looked at before you figure how many are completing then going to college.

NPR reported recently that 30% of White kids, 40% of Latinos and 70% of Blacks are not even graduating high school now. I'm not sure if that's broken down by gender, this may only refer to boys.

Now. My father rose from urban poverty. Of course, his entire family worked to put him and his brother through medical school. No effort was given to the women, because in Latin families, the man is the primary focus of a parent as far as career. (Yep, we're the babymakers, ugh.) But, my aunt ended up marrying a man who worked his way from owning a tiny diner in New York City to being the biggest car dealership in Puerto Rico. He has millions now. It was, and is, still possible to break the cycle of poverty.

And breaking that cycle has to do with education and a supportive family who encourages and shows you the way. It is up to the parent to help and teach the child, and to show them the difference between low-skill jobs and higher ones and the ramifications.

It's not even necessarily college, but a skilled trade, such as electrician, plumbing. I think more vocational schools post-high school is a good thing too, for the kids who don't have the impetus to achieve a 4 (took me 5) year degree.

My mother was a hovering mom. She forced, cajoled, finally paid for my college. And I'm glad she did. I make way more than my contemporaries who do not have such a degree, and it has been easier to find a job too.

I will help my stepson realize his choices. He has the choice of technical school too. It is my job to help him not be a wage-earner, but a man happy in a career.

If anything, children today are not only not coddled, but they are not being raised with the values our parents were - hard work and education.

"And breaking that cycle has to do with education and a supportive family who encourages and shows you the way. It is up to the parent to help and teach the child, and to show them the difference between low-skill jobs and higher ones and the ramifications."

Exactly my point, Darling!

The "culture of poverty" theory is ridiculous as the basic tenets are that you can't shake the cycle unless something dramatic happens to you. That's simply not true! Nothing "dramatic" has to take place.

I posted an item about a school in Baltimore that succeeded because they didn't buy into the whole "culture" bit. They provided a solid 3-R education, with qualified teachers, common sense, and support. These kids are successes because of it.

The problem in our town is that the girls are expected to have babies (plural) in high school. The boys won't date the girls unless they are NOT taking birth control. My husband who teaches sees it everyday and all the qualified teachers aren't going to help when you have no common sense taught or support being given at home too. Having a baby in high school makes things hard, but many of these girls are having 2 or 3. Some cases 4. How do you get kids to want more than this "cycle" when it is all they see at home and at school?

BTW- my husband teaches 13- 18 year old 9th graders many with 1-4 babies.

Why is there the assumption there is no support at home? Why is there even the assumption that home is the only place that can provide support and encouragement? Why is there an assumption that these kids won't succeed?

Are the schools (admin and teachers) keeping expectations high or are they lowering the bar because they expect these kids to have a super hard time overcoming obstacles?

I work with teens every day that come from very poor areas, who have 2+ children and they still are expected to attend school everyday, perform well academically, graduate from high school, and either enter the workforce or some sort of training/higher ed. program.

We assume there is no support at home because of the 120 kids he has in class, only about 20 people show up for parent night and it is always the same parents. These are not based on rich/ poverty line. There seems to be a lack of support across the board in our town. I understand some work, but these are the same people who will fill up a football stadium tonight, but won't come to see a teacher when they call them. Many provide false numbers or will not provide a number so they can't be bothered at home by the school.

Also I am not saying that other places can not provide support(I know church was always great growing up) or that they can not succeed (I got out). But how do you reach a child who feels hopeless and can't see past the negative? My husband will not lower his standards in class for any student, but how do you get kids who refuse to work to work? I believe it is never hopeless unless you give up. Your program seems to be a good one if your teen moms are showing up and moving on. Can you give us tips to help the kids here in our town?

Rule numer one for schools: When you hear about a succesful school (like the PS 428 in Baltimore), contact that school directly and ask them about what they're doing. Its always best to get your info from the admin/teachers/students that are involved directly in successful projets.

That said, from my perspective it takes a great deal of work and committment on the part of all involved to make education a success.

Structuring an environment that places a priority on learning comes first. The biggest issue for many areas is you'll have a few really great teachers/classes, but the whole school (and especially the school/district administration) doesn't buy into anything except the need to prove performance through testing.

Where I've seen the greatest success with teens is in environments where learning is student-centered and flexible. Split shift programs, where students come for just morning, just afternoon, or just evening classes really work. This means there's a higher likelihood that another family member can take care of their children; and it makes work schedules much easier to handle (so many of these students HAVE to work to survive). When schedules are kept to a strict 7:45-2:45 (day) schedule, the likelihood that teens with children can attend enough classes to complete a course, let alone a full high school program, decreases tremendously. This does NOT mean shifting kiddos off to your "alternative" center, either. This means restructuring regular campuses (one or more) within the districts.

Many of the schools in my service are with the most at risk populations also encourage the teachers to go to the students/parents at home. We make all kinds of assumptions about why parents don't come in--but do we really know why? No. Home visits are encouraged--though I'll add that teachers don't go out alone, always in pairs.

Involving your local health/human services agency and workforce/employment agency in the school also helps. This increases the likelihood that students will have access to the information they need to gain support services that help them stay in school.

Peer to peer counseling is also encouraged. Schools that set up committees of teens to review and adjudicate issues related to their peers, that appoint teens as peer counselors, and heavily involve the teens in every part of the educational process are more successful. Find those one, two or three teens in the school that have been successful and ask them to be leaders in the school.

Also, administration needs to be 100 percent clear on expectations--and these expectations need to make sense. Kids understand a lot more than we give them credit for. If they feel the ONLY reason admin is pushing academics is because of testing/finance issues (they read the papers, they watch the news, they know about the links between money and performance), then they're going to blow you off. Admin./teachers have to find a way to make education personally important to kids. "What's in it for me?" plays a big part in the performance issue.

Its going to boil down to really getting to know your population, involving them in the educational process, clearly defining expectations, making outcomes real for students (what's in it for me), providing information/access to support services to keep kids in school, being flexible, and committing resources (time/effort) to students outside the classroom.

Getting admin to buy into the importance of change and getting teachers to be involved with their students lives outside of class/campus is usually the biggest hurdle in the process. I wish you luck!

Thank you!

Not trying to hijack the thread but did want to comment on something said last week:

"the age at which he/she can legally vote, sign contracts, serve in the military, and some places drink"

In America, there is no place that once a person is legally able to vote, sign contracts, serve in the military and get married that they are also able to drink.

No place.

The only alcohol related "right" that accrues to a citizen at 18 (majority) is the right to go the the adult county jail for drinking a glass of champagne to celebrate getting a mortgage for a home to to raise your newborn in before shipping off to Iraq as a newly enlisted Marine.

FrankJBN:

Not everyone using BellaOnline.Com hails from the states.

We have users and readers (and high-school/college students from that matter) from all over. Depending on where you are in the states there are situational exceptions to the 21 law; and in parts of the world, there may not be any legal age limit for drinking (Legal Drinking Age Info).

It's a very general statement and still applicable.

When I were a lad I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

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This is a problem in schools from Kindergarten through College. A couple of years ago Time Magazine had a fantastic article about this problem (What Teachers Hate About Parents).

I've seen a parent berate a kindergarent teacher because a worksheet was in black and white and it "confused" her daughter. The little girl got 1 answer wrong. Another parent screamed at a teacher because she didn't carry a fifth grader's backpack for him--no there was nothing physically wrong with the boy. I've seen a third grade girl play soccer wearing a cast because the dad/coach insisted she play in every single game.

Last year I had to require that all work on a major assignment be done in school because of parents who basically did the students' work. I still had a 7th grade student bring in a floppy because he had "done it all" the previous night with his mother.

Parents want their children to succeed so much that they want to control every aspect of their life. One year we had a mom declare that her fifth grade son wouldn't be in the boy's "hygiene class" because he wouldn't be going through puberty until he was 17. They are often so busy protecting that they don't prepare thier children for life.

I think we have to keep in mind who is paying the bill. When I pay for something, I expect to know what I got for my money and to be sure my money is well-spent. I know of a college that sends schedules and grades to whoever pays the bill. They tell the students it isn't treating them like a baby--it's an issue of accoutability. If you want someone else to pay your way, you'd best be prepared to meet their expectations. If you want to do it your way...pay your own bills.

Does paying the bill give parents the excuse to be rude and abusive.

You know of a college that sends schedules and grades to whoever pays the bills? I sincerely hope its not a US institution. For that to happen, legally, in the US the student has to give express written permission. An adult child is entitled to his/her privacy under federal law in the US.

If you want to know how your child is doing, ask him/her. Its overstepping major boundaries to go and ask fot this information from the college/university.

This is a funny thing about colleges. The Federal government and colleges counts parental income into aide, but then there is no response to parents.

If a married individual applies for financial aid, the spouse's income is considered as part of the resources available to that student. But the spouse is not entitled to access to the student's records or any other student related information unless the student specifically grants this right to the spouse. Accountability is to the student first and foremost; and its not an arbitrary decision. Its the law.

The point of the previous post is this... if the student is 18 or older, he/she is legally an adult in the U.S. As such, the student is entitled to the rights granted to adults.

If, as a parent, you want some sort of accountability for your investment, look to your student.

Absolute craziness! I often wonder if parents today just can't handle too much. I ponder this all the time because many of these parents are my age and I wonder what on earth went wrong in our upbringing that contributed to this. They seem to micromanage everything-----including raising children. I'm not sure if it's a lack of trust or they themselves were insecurely attached to their parents. It's a scary and ridiculous thing to witness. It makes me not want to have kids.

I think that what parents fail to realise is that 'bad' experiences in life teach us just as much about the world as the 'good' experiences. You can't see things in purely black/white. Accidents, mistakes, and injuries (emotional or physical) all tend to teach us SOMETHING about the world around us.

The pains that I've experienced in my own life have taught me to have empathy for others who experience the same pain - and it allows me to help them through it, because I understand what they're going through.

In the same way, mistakes teach you how -not- to do something. I'm bad with directions, but when I get lost somewhere and eventually manage to find my way back...I remember.

Parents don't realise that keeping their kids from these bumps and stumbling blocks makes them much less prepared for life. If you've never struggled to achieve something, how will you know how to do it in the future - when no one's there to hold your hand?

Life is like a mountain, where even the stumbling blocks get you closer to the peak.