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Who is the founder of Christianity? #257343 07/08/06 11:11 PM
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kibrisli7 Offline OP
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I thought Id start a new post. I hope Im not doing something considered contraversial. I dont mean people any offence.

This is the question that probably sets the difference between the 3 major religions in the world (Being Islam, Christianity and Judaism)

The question being asked is because many of the practices of Christians today when comparing with the the teachings of the old and new testament are not from the teachings of the prophets (Peace be upon them) but from the teachings of Paul.

Maybe the readers can add to the example im about to give below and possibly explain why Christians do the opposite of what Jesus (Peace be upon him) asked and how he acted and follow the teachings of Paul.

Quote:
salvation only comes through keeping of the commandments (Mathew 19:16-17)


As opposed to

Quote:
salvation can only be obtained through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Colossians 2:14)


And...

Quote:
Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, not one jot, or one tittle, shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. mathew 5:17-18


As opposed to

Quote:
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Acts 13:39


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257344 07/09/06 12:33 AM
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Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
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Hi Kibrilis!

I'm not sure if you were just paraphrasing, but I don't have the exact same wording in my Bible as you do.

[color:"red"] Matthew 19:16-17; Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" So He said to him "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you wnat to enter into life, keep the commendments."[/color]

You need to take this in context - Jesus had not yet died and been ressurected to save the world - so that was not an option yet. After His death and ressurection is when Paul is stating in Colossians that we must go through Christ for our salvation. (A much simpler - yet more humbling and personal way to do it! IMHO <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

As for the 2nd part; I believe it is saying in Acts that by believing in Christ and accepting Him as Savior - that we are assured of salvation, but it is almost impossible to follow all of the commandments. Even if you just take the 10 commandments - I think I've broken more than half of them, and even since I've been a Christian. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

If I had to rely on me being able to live up to those standards - I'd be Hellbound!

Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law, because the laws are good - they were put down by God, but He is more important than all the laws. If one were to be able to follow all the laws, but did not accept Jesus - then there would still be no point. (Plus I'm not sure it would be possible!) But by accepting Jesus, we want to follow the laws (or should).

Of course then we could get into a debate on which laws God set down and which ones the Pharisees set down. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
(But we'll save that for another thread.)


Michelle Taylor
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Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257345 07/09/06 02:52 AM
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Thank you B.H. I couldn't have said it better myself. Looks like K7 is picking and choosing parts of verses to try and sway us away.

K7 are you what He was referring to in Matthew 7:15?
"Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

The average Christian is extremely naive concerning the devil and his tactics, not realizing that he is the Master Deceiver, who never slackens in his attack on everyone but especially on the Christian and the true church.

Every believer should be on constant guard to judge everything he reads and hears as to its conformity to the Bible, not denominational teachings, not traditions, not sayings and beliefs of any one person, no matter how prominent he or she is. No human is infallible, remember.


Vance Rowe
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Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257346 07/09/06 06:28 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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K7 one thing that you must always be aware of is that Christians are not God, they are Godly humans. In otherwords, Christians do their best to follow the example of Christ but we are flawed and weak, we will sin and we will disappoint God. Many look at that and feel we are hypocrites, only those that judge others are, the rest are only human and doing our best.

In reading Paul I have a lot of questions and issues that bother me as well. I tended to skip over him and go to the writings of Peter and John.

I understand what you are saying though. How can Jesus have said one thing and then Paul say another. BH hit it on the nail - Jesus had not yet died yet. Those he preached to could not be saved mearly by believing in him they still had only the laws of Moses and Jesus as an example followed them completly.

I was just faced with a question in regards to the law of Moses and being saved..... If you are a Christian who knowingly commits adultry and continues, are you still saved?

As for Islam, Judism and Christianity.

Islam and Judism have many differences, the most important being who did God call Abraham to sacrifice, Judism says Issac by taking him away and not telling him until the last moment. Islam says it was Ishmeal and it was done not away from others and Ishmael knew right away and went willingly to the alter.

Judism and Christianity are the same until Jesus comes then the difference is only in the belief that Jesus is the son of God and has absolved us of our sins as being the ultimate sacrifice so that we no longer have to ceromoniously keep ourselves clean in Gods eyes and offer a blood sacrafice regularly to cleans our souls of sin. Jesus' blood wiped away the legalism of Judism. Many of the Judaic laws come out of common law rather than the 10 commandments.

Christians and Jews alike are called to follow the 10 commandments. Where we differ is in our response when we break one. Judaic law has many ceromonies and sacrifices to cleans ones soul. Christians need only to bear their soul to Jesus and wholeheartedly ask for his forgivness. This is not a license to sin, as the sinner must honestly be sorry for his sin and want to do better.

Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257347 07/09/06 06:29 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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Another difference in Judism and Christianity that is important to mention is the Holy Spirit. In the Pentacost the Holy Spirit came down to the followers of Christ and by doing so literally changed them on the inside. With the Holy Spirit your values, opinions, and outlooks change. You actively seek God everyday because the Holy Spirit drives you to. You whole heartedly try to leave a Christ life and not sin on purpose. You are stronger in the face of temptation. With it a true Christ follower is noticably different without having to try.

Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257348 07/09/06 03:42 PM
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Quote:
I was just faced with a question in regards to the law of Moses and being saved..... If you are a Christian who knowingly commits adultry and continues, are you still saved?


I believe, yes. We all goof up! And we are still human, even if we are saved. I think of the Holy Spirit as a really powerful addition to my conscience, one that affects my heart as well as my mind. But if I want something badly enough, I can tune out that voice that is going "Uh-uh, shouldn't do that!"

All that needs to be done is admit the sin and ask forgiveness. But pride gets in the way of that a lot of times (boy do I know about that!) And that is Satan's way of keeping us from making up with the One who loves us most. We can never judge a person's heart; so we'll never know just how much their sin has poured guilt and hurt on them on the inside. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
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Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257349 07/10/06 05:04 AM
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freebubbles2 Offline
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I think K7 may have come across a Chirstian or someone who took pieces of the Bible out of context for what ever reason!!! I have run across the same thing myself!!! K7 makes a valid point though!!! so many Chirstians pick and choose what they want to believe and how they want to believe it!!! We are not God but if we want others to understand what we believe we need to check and make sure that what we believe is what Jesus lived and what God wants us to believe and not part of the Bible taken out of context!!!

I know K7 is not a Chirstian and probly tring to convert us... but i think he makes a great point and would like us to see it!!! I have a big issue with this is literal and this is a moral tale and didnt happen and this is in the old testment and out of date and this was for cleanlness and this is real and this we believe... I call it grocry store faith!!! you can buy your ice cream and skip the eggplant!!! Jesus was CLEARLY this last blood Sacafice and thats the only laws I know for sure that were abolished!!!
On the other hand i eat bacon and ham and i dont leave the town when its that time of the month!!! so...


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257350 07/10/06 06:39 AM
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kibrisli7 Offline OP
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My Friends, I want to thank you for your reactions.
You shouldnt blame yourselves from pick and chooseing parts of your religion.
Ive been studying Christianity for a while now and I have also been studying Islam in the same way. And in both religions culture has a big part to play.

There is a saying.... "You can introduce religion into your culture, but you cant introduce culture into your religion"

And the problem a lot of us have is that we practice what our people practice.We may read a command in our scripture and think about it for a split second and than say to yourselves well my mum and dad have always done this so I am too.

Or sometimes even more often although we may know a ruling in our religion, we choose to ignore it because we cant make room for it in our lives. we dont want to change our lfe styles for our religion but we say we are Christian or Muslim or Buddist etc.
These issues are a test from God. We mustn't forget this life is temporary. It is only a moment in time compared to the here after which is an infinity of time.
Both Christians and Muslims will say we believe in a day of judgment. But not many of the two prepare for it.

By ignoring what the scriptures say we cannot be pleasing God.

Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?
(Al-Qur'an 29:2 (Al-Ankaboot [The Spider])

By asking you the questions I asked I was hoping you may be interested in delving into Chrisitianity.
Learn how the early Christians practiced, how they were persecuted for practising their faith and learn how at one point there were two types of Christianity being practiced. One was forcefully being eradicated.


"The best apology is the one given before the grief" The prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)
Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257351 07/10/06 08:46 AM
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Carennedy Offline
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Many people today are looking to spiritual answers. I feel this is another baby boomer phenomenon. As the largest part of our population becomes older they find they have the time to ask the spiritual questions they didn't have the time to ask before. As they do our media begins to be effected drawing other generations into the same questions... the da vinci code is an example of this. The book holy blood holy grail, which has the same theories, was written in the 80's and did not have the same impact as Brown's book. In the 80's the baby boomers were concentrating on making money, raising children, and gathering material possessions; spirituality didn't figure into their day to day.

I do find it amazing though that many will read books by today's spiritual gurus on a number of different spiritual ideals but never take the time to read the Bible.

Many Christians do not read the Bible or know exactly what it is they believe, they show up Sunday listen say a prayer and then go on with their week. For these people I am sad because they are missing out on so much that God wants to do in their hearts and lives.

Today there are so many contemporary translations and study bibles that provide notes that the argument, its too hard to understand just doesn't wash anymore.

I encourage all Christians to start by reading a chapter before they go to bed, if anything it'll help you get to sleep.

Re: Who is the founder of Christianity? #257352 07/10/06 03:04 PM
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If someone were to go into the wiccan forum and ask a similar question about wicca, what would happen?

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