logo

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245032 04/24/06 05:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
J
JimLow Offline OP
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
Hi Forum members, God Bless You.
Jennifer, the Bible Basics Editor and forum administrator, was kind enough, to feature my article "Did The Fall Of Lucifer Who Became Satan, Happen On A Pre-Adamic Earth?" and I wanted you all to know, I'm now also registered on this forum and happy to enter discussion and answer questions about the article.
I have to intermittantly check for new posts because I'm a little busy during daytime hours but I will check in and respond.
I will be asking questions as well.
Blessings,
JimLow

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245033 04/27/06 06:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Hi Jim!

I did get around to reading your article (finally)!

I never really thought about when Lucifer was thrown from Heaven in relation to Adam, that is. I of course realized it was before man was created, because he could not have tempted Eve had he not already been here (logic). But I guess I had always thought it was before God created Earth.

I've always considered Satan living in Hell - but I guess that part doesn't come until after the Armageddon, does it? For the time being this is his dominion? That's a pretty scary thought.

I'm assuming you do not believe the "days" mentioned in Genesis are our 24 hour periods. I have never held with this belief, as that is a definition made up by man - not God. What is your thought?

I also have this extremely whacked out theory (that makes many people look at me as if I were crazy) - that the Garden of Eden might not have been on this planet. We call this Earth, but who's to say this is the Earth that God named? And that when they were banned from Eden they were thrown to this earth (maybe that's why we can't get any farther than the moon in our space program.) Like I said, that is pure conjecture on my part - but I have wondered about it, because there is not much of this earth that we cannot get to.

Anyway, got to run for now, but am interested in talking to you! (And hope you don't find anything I say blasphemous.)


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245034 04/27/06 10:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
DarlingPoor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Can someone kindly put the link to the article in here?

Thanks.


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245035 04/28/06 12:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
You got it!
Did The Fall Of Lucifer Who Became Satan, Happen On A Pre-Adamic Earth? Part 1

Then you can get to Part 2 from the article itself!


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245036 04/28/06 02:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
J
JimLow Offline OP
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
Bella Harmony,
Thanks for the comments on the article.
Actually I do believe the 6 days God re-created the earth for Adam in, were literal days because after each, it says to the effect; and that morning and that evening were the first day etc... We don't see where the length of days was changed at a later time.
I do believe though that there was a "Pre-Adamic" period on the earth, involving Lucifer and that after a catastrophic judgment detroyed that former earth (Gen 1:2), God began reviving it for Adam, re-making it in that 6 days described.
The planet idea you mention, is not so far fetched because "The Lake of Fire" could be somewhere like the Sun (who knows) because at some point, even Hell itself will be cast into The Lake of Fire. God created both these places, as well as everything else.
HorseCrazyLady,
I didn't get a chance in an earlier post but just wanted to mention that the list of Christians who are Scientists from all fields, and the Astronauts, was something I simply copied and pasted, I didn't compile the list myself, so had no intention of descriminating women and people of color from it.
BTW, I'm one-sixteenth Cherokee Indian (there abouts) but you can't see it in me. My mother, at about one-eight Cherokee, shows it plainly and could pass for half! She is descendant of a Chief but I don't have speficics right now, I'll have to ask her the names etc...

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245037 04/28/06 02:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
J
JimLow Offline OP
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
HorseCrazyGal,
Please forgive me for quoting your nickname incorrectly, it is similar to another lady I have replied to on another forum, so I accidentally reverted back to the "lady" part.
I'll get it right after this!

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245038 04/29/06 04:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
J
JimLow Offline OP
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
I just wanted to mention another interesting point about the fall of Satan;
I've had a couple of people in the past, by e-mail etc..., state that they feel the fall of Lucifer, happened at the time he tempted Adam.
This would not agree with Bible scripture because "hell" that Jesus said was "..prepared for the devil and his angels."(Mt 25:41), being in the earth's heart/belly, was part of the creation and it says in Genisis 2:2, that God rested after the 6th day, from all of his creation and also declaired this 7th day his sabbath (verse 3).
In scripture we see that God will not resume works of creation, until after the 1,000 year reign of Christ (signals the end of the sabbath), after which, he will yet again re-create the heaven and the earth (Rev 21:1).
My point being in the above, is that hell was created before God rested. Satan's temptation of man in the Garden of Eden, followed God's completion of the things created and made.
God did not cease from the sabbath he declaired, in order to create hell (not found in scripture), it was already created when the angels that rebelled, fell.
This can only mean the angelic fall was a Pre-Adamic event.
God's Sabbath from the creation is further proof of this.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245039 04/29/06 07:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Alexandra Offline
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Quote:

God's Sabbath from the creation is further proof of this.



Oxford on-line dictionary:
# PROOF n. :

1. The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
2. A statement or argument used in such a validation.

3. Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
4. The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.

EVIDENCE n.:

The documentary or oral statements and the material objects admissible as proven incontestible testimony

EVIDENCED v.:
# To indicate clearly; exemplify or prove.
# To support by testimony; attest.


There is no corroborating evidence anywhere of any of this having ever happened...
So it cannot be called proof.
it may be what you believe, but proof and evidence need more than an ancient scriptural say-so.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245040 04/29/06 08:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
J
JimLow Offline OP
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
Alexandra,
For some reason, no matter how many times it is repeated, you continually and consistantly choose to not understand what we are about and what this forum is about. It actually is kind of remarkable because it appears your life's ambition, is to try disproving what others believe because you feel that somehow better substatiates your own religion.
Any time someone has to continually attack others beliefs (you'll say you're not attacking but you are), this does not point to someone confident in their religion but actually strongly indicates you are very insecure in your own beliefs.
Let me try this again; WE DISCUSS THE BIBLE FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF "BELIEF" AND "PROOF", BECAUSE WE HAVE ACCEPTED IT AS SUCH (how can we make this more clear?).
Is there some reason why you cannot grasp this? Or is it actually because you don't want to grasp it, because you enjoy the attack so much.
Maybe if you would practice the positive aspects of your "religion", you won't have as much interest in this negative bashing.
It is incredible that you actually think it is terrible for Christians to discuss their beliefs on a forum "specified" for that.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245041 04/29/06 09:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Alexandra Offline
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
When somebody can give me a concrete answer on Why you believe it, rather than what you believe, then I'll be satisfied. So far, nobody has succeded in doing this.
Your perception that I am insecure couldn't be any farther from the Truth if you tried.... My practise doesn't require me to believe anything. It requires that I know, for sure. Buddhism is not a practise of faith or Belief, you see... I am required to See things as they Really Are. No strings attached, no pre-conditions or improbable promises required.

Perception is often deception.

I don't think it's terrible at all... I find it illuminating... But how can you have a challenging theological discussion if you're like-minded? Surely, the whole point of challenging discussion is that it also causes 'you' to evaluate and re-evaluate what you have accepted, and reinforce, where necessary, your ground of Being....
Debate - amongst those who are like-minded, and even with those who are not - is healthy, nourishing and informative... it provides different perspectives and food for thought.
It is educational, and may well provide you with a deeper insight into what makes those who follow other creeds, tick...
Why do you in turn, shy away from it?

If something can broaden our horizon, and educate us about the workings of other peoples' minds, this can only surely be a constructive thing?

I have asked this elsewhere, but have not as yet received a response...

What do you know for sure, of Buddhism? And would you, in turn, not like to know a little more about MY practise?

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245042 04/30/06 12:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
J
JimLow Offline OP
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
The search for truth, or confirmation, has nothing to do with your bashing.
You disrespect and degrade the beliefs of those who do not believe what you do because you feel it uplifts your own philosophies.
There is no possible way that remarks such as stating that we Christians are putting faith in a "flawed book" and the many other flat out attacks, could be considered healthy debate.
You imply knowledge about Christianity and the Bible but the truth is, you know nothing. What are the Christian beliefs (not general but in detailed)??? Claiming that you do know, again, is an attempt to uplift your philosophies.
I know enough about other religions, to know when they come under the Bible definition of a "cult" (not my definition!). In fact I have also read enough from books such as the one entitled "Kingdom of the Cults", to also know this. I am only bringing up this aspect because you have insisted on hearing it.
Any so called religion that does not believe and confess that "Jesus is Christ, the son of God" is of the "anti-Christ spirit".>>>>

I John 4:1-3 "BELOVED (Christians), believe not every spirit, but try the spirits (test them) whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Sprit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (Emanuel "God with us", the creator made flesh)is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof ye have heard that it should come: and even now already is in the world."

I Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Sprit, see of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, recieved up to glory."

John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

Who do you believe these scriptures are saying Jesus is?
For what reasons are you telling me I should not believe this <<(rhetoricle: nothing changes my beliefs)?
You imply you have tremendous knowledge, even stating in your post under the other thread, that you are "doing us a favor", so I will also ask; Who do you think you are?
You are throwing around empty words and then pretending you are not being satisfactorily responded to. I believe there are no answers that will ever satify you until you are sincerely open to the truth.
This is the best I can do for you and I don't feel responding to you futher, in these regards, will help, so I'm going to have to leave it here.
You'll lambast and ridicule this post again, I already know that but I really don't understand what you want from us, so I will just be praying about it.
God Bless and Love you, and satisfy your search for him!

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245043 04/30/06 12:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
I can't post long tonite. My family crisis has come to a major head unfortunately. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Please, those of you that pray, pray for Michael and his doctors.

Quote:
When somebody can give me a concrete answer on Why you believe it, rather than what you believe, then I'll be satisfied.


You want a "concrete" answer as to why we believe, but the majority of our belief system is based on FAITH. i can't make that concrete for you.

It's like I said in a post long ago - you have no proof that when you get in your car and drive to work everyday that you will not be in a carwreck and die. Yet you still do it. That is faith based on the fact that your normally are safe.

The sun does not have to rise every day, but we have faith that it will.

A person that goes skydiving has no way of knowing that the parachute will 100% open, yet they do it anywya with the faith that it will.

Faith surrounds us on a daily basis - sometimes based on lots of evidence, and sometimes based on very little. But there is nothing about Faith the is "concrete" unless you are talking about the strength of it some people my possess.


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245044 04/30/06 06:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
Michelle,

Michael and your family are in my prayers tonight.

Alexandra, you can read why I belive what I believe in my testimony which is posted on the Bible Bascis site under the Archives. It's late now and my husband is tired so we are gong to go to sleep. But we can talk more about "why" tomorrow and I will share some details about my life that I have never shared here before...


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245045 04/30/06 07:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Alexandra Offline
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Michelle - you know me - I will do what I do, and I will do what I can.

Jenna, Suffice here, to say I have read your post, and I thank you both there and here.....I have responded at length, there.... if you haven't seen it already, make yourself comfortable, and have a cuppa;.. it's a long post - ! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jim... I'm just going to respond on some points you make in your post...

Quote:
You disrespect and degrade the beliefs of those who do not believe what you do because you feel it uplifts your own philosophies.


I have never disrespected and denigraded your beliefs or those of anyone else here..And as Jenna may well read this post, I hope she would bear me out on that....If I had ever done that, I would hope my posts would have been reported, and that some punitive action would be taken.

I have tremendous respect and admiration both for the central core message of what the Bible teaches, and for those who practise their Christian faith. As for it uplifting my own philosophies, yes, it can do that - but not in the way you think... There are many similarities in what Christ taught his followers, and in what the Buddha taught....

Quote:
You imply knowledge about Christianity and the Bible but the truth is, you know nothing. What are the Christian beliefs (not general but in detailed)??? Claiming that you do know, again, is an attempt to uplift your philosophies.


I have already explained my background elsewhere, and do not need to further elaborate here.... But having had a full Christian life, upbringing and education has obviously had a massive influence on me, in that I know more than you are prepared to believe I do.
My point is that you cannot supply a balanced discussion, because you in turn, know less about Buddhism...

Quote:
I know enough about other religions, to know when they come under the Bible definition of a "cult" (not my definition!). In fact I have also read enough from books such as the one entitled "Kingdom of the Cults", to also know this. I am only bringing up this aspect because you have insisted on hearing it.


You will also know then that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has close, continuous and productive dialogue with many different religious authorities, from Judaism, Islam and Christianity, and among others, The World Community for Christian meditation.... He spoke at length, by invitation, I might add, during the John Main seminar held in London, 1994 on the close connection between the Gospels and the teachings of the Buddha, basing his discourse on The sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, the parable of the Mustard Seed and the Kingdom of God, the Transfiguration and the Resurrection. This seminar has since been documented in a book titled 'The Good Heart', and provides a wonderful bridge between what both you and I practise...
You will then further know that the eminent and widely respected Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Monk, has also written a book in close liaison with Church representatives, called 'Living Buddha Living Christ, passionately hailing both men as wonderful examples of the Love they both taught, and observing how their lives walk hand in hand.
Buddhism - preceding Christianity by 500 years - cannot in all sincerity be called a 'cult'.

Practises like Scientology, 'Heaven's gate', the Moonies, and the Davidian Sect, founded by David Koresh, are....

Quote:
You'll lambast and ridicule this post again, I already know that.....


Never. I never have, never will.
I would never lambast,nor ridicule.
If you feel I have done this anywhere, as I have tried to say already, I feel your perception is flawed. And if I may further venture, I feel it is you who is on a back foot, not I.


Jim....
there is much more I could say, but I'm going to cease corresponding with you because this is getting us nowhere. I am sorry you feel it both inappropriate and unnecessary to at least even do a little research into Buddhist texts, to at least meet me part of the way.... if you wish to continue viewing what I practise as cultish, and what I say as being anti-Christian, I nor anyone else, can make you see otherwise.
I wish you well.
Metta and Namaste, Jim, and thank you.

Last edited by Alexandra; 04/30/06 08:20 AM.
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245046 04/30/06 04:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
J
JimLow Offline OP
Newbie
OP Offline
Newbie
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 25
Alexandra and forum members:
I just had to respond one more time. Below are quotes from Alexandra. I'm not using the quote box to save space.

"I have never disrespected or denigraded your beliefs or those of anyone else here." (<<now see quotes that follow)

"..faith in a flawed document is neither sound nor reliable"

""..the ceation story itself is pure fantasy."

"..It may be what you believe but proof and evidence need more than just an ancient scriptural say-so."

"..the Old Testament is an eclectic mix of a hefty dose of fantasy and a small tickle of significan history...many of the events took place in the Bible...just not as the Bible describes them."

"..if you attempt to take the Bible as concrete fact...aespotic, unbalanced and frankly outrageous."

"..constant reference to Jesus Christ is admirable...such matters should be taken with a pinch of salt..not a single shred of evidence to support their veracity."

"..the plagues that released the Isrealites also occured...but not as described...and certainly not for that reason."

"I just cannot buy the God bit."

"Any creator who can "answer prayers" and heal little Tommy of a terrible illness but can permit a disaster...to kill countless thousands is what I cannot swallow."

"Oh shut my mouth" <<sarcasim

"count youself lucky I decided to come back and edit."

Alexandra, uses extreme "disrespect and denigrades" things that are Christian and Biblical and then turns right around and says she is not doing this! She also used sarcasim and sprinkles her posts with intelligent sounding words, as if this somehow makes her posts more believable and acceptable. Her purpose is as I have stated before, to lambast, debunk and attack Christianity and the Bible and then to turn around and pretend these things were done for "interesting discussion".
What is most amazing, is that she does these things, then turns around and pretends to have respect for those who have solid faith in the things she attacks as described!!
The obvious purpose is to disrupt and confuse this forum, then claim it is for healthy debate and discussion.

Her first quote above and the ones that follow, are extreme contradictions from a person who claims wanting to help others find the real truth.
I ask all forum members to pray sincerely for her. Confusion this extreme points to serious problems.
I do not have unforgiveness or a grudge, whatsoever, in fact this has given me genuine concern. God loves her as much as any of the rest of us and if her search is real and not a cover for hatred, God will reveal himself.
Alexandra,
Many people have had experiences that were attached to a Christian type religion (don't remember what denomination you said you were) but these same people, later in life, came to know Jesus Christ in a personal way and realized this is what was missing from their earlier experience. There is such a thing as religious Christians, as opposed to those who have truely been born again and made new creatures in Christ.
My prayer for you, is that you will give The Lord Jesus a genuine, sincere chance to reveal himself to you, through salvation and he will also show you the truth of his word.
God Bless You, I sincerely wish God's best for you. He has given me compassion for you and I'm praying for you.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245047 04/30/06 05:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Alexandra Offline
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
I'm afraid you still don't get the point of my discussion.
The above quotations are occasionally out of context, but even so, not one of them is insulting or condescending, not one of them attacks anyone personally, and not one of them denigrades nor lambasts your personal belief in God.

My point is that the Bible, as a hard, factual, concrete completely historical document simply doesn't cut the mustard.

That's all.

I really am going to call it a day here... If I can't engage in a discussion with you here, it's unlikely we'll be able to do it anywhere else. But you're always welcome to join the Buddhist forum discussion on a Higher Power....


And thank you for your prayers...
If I die first, I'll save you a seat. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245048 05/03/06 03:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
Ya know, this thread is about the article written by Jim, not about a theological discussion on the validity of the Word of God... refer to the forum rules for Bible Basics.

So if you have any comments or questions about the article, you can post those here... If you ahev other questions that you would like to post to the forum, please start a new thread.

Thanks! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245049 05/03/06 03:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Quote:
In scripture we see that God will not resume works of creation, until after the 1,000 year reign of Christ (signals the end of the sabbath), after which, he will yet again re-create the heaven and the earth (Rev 21:1).


OK, just to make sure I've got my timeline straight here...

The above will occur after the rapture, tribulation, reign of anti-Christ (that was probably redundant), and Armageddon - which is the final battle where Satan and all will be thrown into the lake of fire, right?

So for Jesus' 1000 yr reign on earth, who will be here? Those that survive the tribulation period? Or will those that have already passed away (and who are in Heaven) be brought back to Earth?

I thought once we went to Heaven that was it, that's where we stayed.


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245050 05/03/06 04:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Lynn_B Offline
Koala
Offline
Koala
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
I've read texts regarding this and heard various speakers on the topics and the only commonality I get from the readings/speakers is that Revelations tells us the world will end--someday.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245051 05/03/06 01:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
A
aing Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
A
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
My opinions stated here are just that, my opinion.

It being a very long time since i studied the bible I can not offer quotations. What I think is written is no man knows the hour of His return. So when confronted with calculations of when the end time is near I just smile and change the subject.
Faith, to me, is believing in the unprovable. "I believe this ... " is enough. The bible says that faith is a gift from the Holy Spirit not something won in debate. As a non believer I have spent many hours in coffee house discussions with egotistical athiests to divert them from playing logic games with ones with simple faith who were drawn into trying to prove the unprovable.
My experiance with those who have been changed through the annointing of the Holy Spirit is that the scriptures become alive and no longer just ancient stories.
I wish i could remember where the the comparion of childish and the more mature in faith is compared to milk and meat is from. Is there a scripture or just something i heard in a sermon?
My most critical opinion is debating or spending much time in thought on things as such what happened before the historical records is milk not meat. How many angels can fit on a head of a pin?

I am not a believer in your faith. Is it against the rules of the forum for me to post this?

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245052 05/04/06 01:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
OK...
Michelle, the answer to your question is that Yes, all that stuff that Jim mentions will occur AFTER the battle of Armageddon.

The people who will be present on the earth during the 1000 year reign of Jesus will be those who survive and are believers, those who have been raptured and those who have died believers.

Lynn, the world as we know it will end. God will destroy what we have created and he will give to us a new dwelling with Him.

aing, the guidelines for posting on this board are in another thread... be sure to read them please. And you are right it is a scripture that refers to maturity by comparing the ways in which we think and behave.

"Heb 5:12 By this time you ought to be teachers yourselves, yet here I find you need someone to sit down with you and go over the basics on God again, starting from square one--baby's milk, when you should have been on solid food long ago!
Heb 5:13 Milk is for beginners, inexperienced in God's ways;
Heb 5:14 solid food is for the mature, who have some practice in telling right from wrong." taken from the Message Bible

And as for your question about angels... none is the answer.... why would an angel want to sit on the head of a pin?

And you don't have to be a believer to post, but you do have to adhere to the forum regulations that are posted on another thread and the Bella Forum standards or your posts will be deleted.


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245053 05/04/06 02:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
A
aing Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
A
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
Sorry I was rather obtuse. The angel question was an example of a question that has been discussed historically that had nothing to do with faith, spreading the good news or increasing ones understanding of scripture. I was trying to not to be appear flaming while being critical at the same time.

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245054 06/19/06 10:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
i think the point Alexandra is trying to make is that not that we believe whole heartedly in the bible and thats bad i think she is rether trying to point out that we follow blindly and without question the church leaders and pasters and such without even the possibleity that they are wrong. we think well they when to school and God picked them so the speak for god but in reality anyone with money and the want to can be a church leader and take the bible and twistit to say and mean anything!!! yes there are for lack of a better word loop hole in the bible forgive or eye for and eye and there are a whole lot of things against women and slaves and the rich and poor that we do adheir to like in the "good old days" of witch burning wife beating and slavery that some churchs still preach!!!
your agruing bananas and chocolate!!! forgive me if i am wrong Alexandra, but i think she is pointing out how can you be sure that we are following Gods word and that the Bible is Gods word when so much of it is out of date (witch burning and wife beating and slavery)and some of it contadices itself?
I'd love the answer to that one too along with this one
If the Bible is the only WORD of God and it was wrote for everyone for all time why is there not more women in the bible with bigger roles Business women single women that never married but where respected and how come there is not more instuction on how to be a woman? all the church ever says to women is sumitt to your husband and church and parents. why?


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245055 06/20/06 03:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
First of all, Alexandra is trying to lead the discussion into the train of thought that all Christians are blind followers who don't think for themselves. She is wrong.

As for the answer ot your question about why there aren't more stories about women inthe Buble is that basically it was written by men. Back in those days women still didn't have the right to vote... lol... seriously, thoguh, women were thought of as property of their husbands, therefore defined by who their husband was.

I'm sure there were far more women who were instrumental in spreading the gospel than we hear about. I reccommend reading the book Women of the BIble. Youc an find it at amazon. It's a great study of women mentioned int e Bible and their roles in spreading the message of God's love.

But to truly understand why, you have to take a Middle Eastern history class to fully understand the culture of the times.


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245056 06/21/06 08:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
yes i know this but the bible is wrote for ALL generations in all time and ages and God knew that when he desided to have humans write it so why not more women? i know that in that time and place women didnt read or write but GOD IS GOD so... hows to say that more women didnt write books but they were not past by the canon because they were wrote by women? and i have read the women in the Bible but still...most of it is conjecture because there is not that much information on the women in the Bible execpt Eve, Ruth Ester, Tamara, Mary mother of Jesus, Mary Magdeline and a few others. more then 1/2 the women dont even have names so how can you possably come up with a story to tell about them?


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245057 06/21/06 08:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
btw If Alexadra was trying to put chirstians down, which i dont think she was, getting deffencive only proves her right!!! and if you think only non chirstians come up with questions your wrong in a BIG way!!! you see i have always had and always will have questions and i AM a CHIRSTIAN and have been for the past 24yrs. so do you think that i am less of a chirstian because i have question? i left a church and a misson field because of that additude!!! and i believe whole heartedly in God Father Son and Holy Spirit but i SERIOUSLY doubt any chirstian or church that thinks that i should not try to find answers to questions. God gave us brains to think and a bibble to study so why bother to study it if you cant find answers to questions!!!!
i have asked questions and said nothing to offened so why are you so deffencive? I dont hardly think a few questions can shake someones FAITH that much.


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245058 06/21/06 10:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Alexandra Offline
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Quote:
First of all, Alexandra is trying to lead the discussion into the train of thought that all Christians are blind followers who don't think for themselves. She is wrong.



You do me a great injustice by accusing me of this, and you are wong. I have never said that all Christians are blind followers who don't think for themselves.
What I HAVE said, is that anyone who blindly accepts the bible as concrete, historical, irrefutable, unquestionable fact and evidence, is misguided, because there is much thorough, more modern and substantiated research and evidence to prove that the Bible - presented as such a document - is flawed. Much of this study and research is also engineered to show, inspite of everything, the authenticity and majesty of God's message, despite of how Man has managed to corrupt and twist His Word across the Millenia.

(*EDITING NOTE:* It's important that I take the opportunity to emphasise that IMHO, anyone following a faith, creed or doctrine blindly, would do well to re-assess their personal evaluation of their own policy - no matter what their Religious or Spiritual path. My opinion on such people applies to Buddhists, Moslems, Hindus, or followers of any Discipline. Following any Path blindly, is at best, questionable, at worst, foolish.*)

I have never belittled, insulted or derided anyone's faith in God, and I never intend to do so, whatever my own opinion may be on the subject.
Please be so good as to not put erroneous and damaging words into my mouth.

Last edited by Alexandra; 06/21/06 12:21 PM.
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245059 06/21/06 08:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
if my last 2 post sound hateful im sorry i had a email that made me agery and i though it was from Jenna and it was not. Im sorry i should have phrased my opinions better. forgive me?


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245060 06/22/06 12:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
I am very new to this forum and have been reading the previous posts. I find it so interesting that people "choose" to argue over religion. All over the world we fight wars in the name of God. We kill and abuse other people because of their belief in or not in God. And then I join this forum and the first thing I read is this heated discussion on none other than "God" or the lack there of. To introduce myself, I consider myself a Christian. If you asked some other poeple they would say I am not. And the discussion goes on and on. I have my own ansers to all of the above posts, but would feel a betrayal to my Father in Heaven to post them in a contentious forum. Maybe tomorrow it will cool down. Maybe tomorrow we can discuss like adults the God given truths that we have....or if you don't believe in Him...the opinions that you have in a respectful way that all human beings deserve.
I had a dear 93 year old friend that gave me this advice one time.
There is enough good in the worst of us,
And enough bad in the best of us,
That is wouldn't behove any of us.
To talk about the rest of us.

I am just shaking my head at some of the responses and hope that a good, worthwhile discussion can occur at some point. This is definately not what I expected.
And, just for the record: Lucifer was cast out of the spirit world before the Earth was created.
The Earth we live on was the Garden of Eden and when Adam and Eve partook of the Fruit which Lucifer tempted them with, the were changed from a immortal to a mortal state as was this earth we now live on. The casting out was only symbolic as was much of the Adam and Eve story. They truly did walk and talk with God and Jesus Christ in the Garden of Eden and no it was not a sin that Eve committed. It was a choice. Now, if you want answers to that I was suggest that you read the Bible and ask God in the name of Christ " who giveth to all men liberally , and upbraideth not: and it shall be given him.
But let him as in faith, nothing wavering. For he tat wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed." James 1:5,6


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245061 06/22/06 03:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Hi Ginlovin7,
I know we got a little hot under the coller or i should say i did anyways! Welcome to the forum inspite of it all I am glad to have you here. Your friend is wise in what he said.


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245062 06/23/06 01:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
It's important that I take the opportunity to emphasise that IMHO, anyone following a faith, creed or doctrine blindly, would do well to re-assess their personal evaluation of their own policy - no matter what their Religious or Spiritual path. My opinion on such people applies to Buddhists, Moslems, Hindus, or followers of any Discipline. Following any Path blindly, is at best, questionable, at worst, foolish

I agree with you on this point. All I was saying is that the tone of some much earlier posts could have led some to believe that you felt this way only about Christians here on this board, not that this is a personal characteristic of yours that youc arry with you everywhere you go, I don't belieive this. Quite the contrary, i think you are a very educated woman who has done her homework and has something to say.

i don't want anyone to think I am bashing Alexandra in my earlier post. That is not my intention, just that the TONE of some posts could be misconstrued, please don't do get confused by that. i'm positive that everyone here is writing with the most impeccable intentions....


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245063 06/23/06 02:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
ginlovin,

Please note the date of some of the posts... many of these posters have moved on and their discussion fallen by the way side.

All views are accepted,e ven those we don't understand. I hope you hang out for a while and see some of the dynamic that makes this such a good forum...

Oh and religion can such a hot button topic. Sometimes when you feel yurself getting angry about something someone else wrote, try reading it in a different frame of mind. Most of the time what someone wrote and the way we read it has a lot to with how we respond.

If your interested in how I feel and what my beliefs are read my articles...

Free bubbles - all is forgiven. Boy, makes me wonder who sent you this email and what it said!


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245064 06/24/06 05:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
You are right. Maybe I should select another topic to get involved in since I have such strong and tender feelings about religion. I certainly don't feel good about arguing about it. I just picked up at a bad spot. I'll move on and check out some of the other posts. Thank you for your response.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245065 06/27/06 04:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Now that all is settled down!!! lol i have a question for Ginlovin:
in an earlier post you posted that eve made a choice but it was not a sin and that they were immortal before she ate the apple and that they became mortal Right?
this would explain why they didn't died right away and they lived for 100's of years back then!!! But Adam and Eve still disobeyed God by eating the apple so wouldn't that be a sin?
I'm not picking a fight i promise i am just doing research on religions and how people interpret the Bible. please give us one more chance!!!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245066 06/27/06 11:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
I believe we are given different choices every day. We are free to choose one thing or another. When I tell my children that they should not go out in the rain because if they do they will surly get wet, I have given them a choice. I don't mean to minimize the story of Adam and Eve and that is probably a very poor example, but maybe will help you understand where I am coming from.
I also tell them I need a carrot from the garden. That gives them a choice. Should they obey one of my requests or the other?
Adam and Eve were told not to "eat of the forbidden fruit" and to "multiply and replenish the earth". They had to choose one over the other. If they had not eaten of the fruit, they would have remained immortal and so would the whole earth. They would not have known "good from evil"
(which they did not know before that...meaning sin...)and they along with the earth would have remained the same forever in that innocent state. You and I would not be here.
Therefore it was a choice between to things not a "sin"
If you will stop and think about what a sin is you will come to know in your heart and mind that it was not a sin compared to all other sins we know of. Does that make sense to you?


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245067 06/28/06 12:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
AHhhhhhhh, here's the kind of debate I like! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But when God came looking for Adam and Eve in the garden they had covered themselves and were trying to hide from Him. So wouldn't that imply they felt guilty? And guilt comes after sinning; so therefore they sinned.


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245068 06/28/06 02:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
that does make sence in a way but they did disobey God like your kids disobey when they go out in the rain. but your right in one way because the all other sin in the bible is sin that will harm us or others. i always wondered why the fruit on that tree would be sinfull to eat...


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245069 06/28/06 09:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Alexandra Offline
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Quote:
I believe we are given different choices every day. ....

Adam and Eve were told not to "eat of the forbidden fruit" and to "multiply and replenish the earth". They had to choose one over the other. If they had not eaten of the fruit, they would have remained immortal and so would the whole earth. They would not have known "good from evil"
(which they did not know before that...meaning sin...)and they along with the earth would have remained the same forever in that innocent state. You and I would not be here.
Therefore it was a choice between to things not a "sin"


I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there...
Adam and Eve were not given a choice, they were given a command. You said so yourself, here above.
God never said,
'Look guys, it's up to you, but if you want my advice, I wouldn't do it....but the choice is yours...."

Temptation (bad boy, sepent!!) convinced them to do otherwise, so they were led into sinning.... They chose to disobey, but it wasn't through the Choice God gave them, it was through the temptation placed before them....

Choice and Temptation may be similar, but the former does not imply good or bad - whereas the latter may do, to a degree.....

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245070 06/28/06 05:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin � for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do
Some acts, like murder, are crimes because they are inherently wrong. Other acts, like operating without a license, are crimes only because they are legally prohibited. Under these distinctions, the act that produced the Fall was not a sin�inherently wrong�but a transgression�wrong because it was formally prohibited. These words are not always used to denote something different, but this distinction seems meaningful in the circumstances of the Fall.
I believe that "our first parents understood the necessity of the Fall. Adam declared, �Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God�

"Note the different perspective and the special wisdom of Eve, who focused on the purpose and effect of the great plan of happiness: �Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient�. In his vision of the redemption of the dead, President Joseph F. Smith saw �the great and mighty ones� assembled to meet the Son of God, and among them was �our glorious Mother Eve�.
I also believe that "when we understand the plan of salvation, we also understand the purpose and effect of the commandments God has given his children. He teaches us correct principles and invites us to govern ourselves. We do this by the choices we make in mortality."
"Whatever else happened in Eden, in his supreme moment of testing, Adam made a choice."
"After the Lord commanded Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth and commanded them not to partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, He said: �Nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die�
"There was too much at issue to introduce man into mortality by force. That would contravene the very law essential to the plan. The plan provided that each spirit child of God would receive a mortal body and each would be tested. Adam saw that it must be so and made his choice. �Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy� .
"Adam and Eve ventured forth to multiply and replenish the earth as they had been commanded to do. The creation of their bodies in the image of God, as a separate creation, was crucial to the plan. Their subsequent fall was essential if the condition of mortality was to exist and the plan proceed."
Much of what I have posted are quotes but they support the point I am trying to make better than my own words can. I hope it is OK to do this and if you want references I can give them. Please send me a private message for the references.
Let me know what you think of these thoughts


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245071 06/28/06 06:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
ok so how do you explane Adam and Eve hiding from God if it was a choice not a sin? why would they be ashamed? oh course i have made choices that i am ashamed of that were not realy sins but... i dont hide from God or try...

Ok this is probley redunded but... so Adam and Eve were immortal in immortal bodies then they made a choice to eat the apple and get mortal bodys and exentualy die. so why would they choice to give up the image of God and eternal life? What did they think was so great about being mortals? and what was so wrong with being immortal? and if it is that bad then why do we strife so hard to go to heaven and life happily ever after? i am reambbling sorry just thinking out loud!!!LOL


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245072 06/28/06 10:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
Hiding themselves from God in their "nakedness" is symbolic.
I think when we stand before God for judgement, we will stand as if "naked" because He will know us so well inside and out. Lucifer, the serpant said, "run, hide yourselves".
He does that today to us. Often we hear him wishper, "you are not worthy of God's love and forgiveness....You are no good......you made a mistake, don't go back to church, don't pray...and sometimes we "hide' ourselves because we are afraid or lack faith. Maybe for a moment they did worry, but then they stepped up and became accountalbe for what they had done.
Adam and Eve were two of the greatest people on this earth. They weren't chosen by chance to fulfill the part they played in the earths creation and continuation. I have no doubt that a very wise Heavenly Father sent two of His most glorious spirits to do what they had to do and knew that they would make the right choice to become mortal and therefore Put into motion God's Eternal Plan of Happiness. That plan is to come to this earth to receive a body, be tested if we can stay true and worthy to return to Him.....as we all lived with Him as spirits. Then, when it is time to return to His presence for further instructions and judgements. Our Savior died that we might be forgiven for the mistakes we make if we desire that and then go back into our Heavenly Father's Kingdom. That sounds pretty great to me. In fact I'm pretty sure I agreed to it and so did you.
As a final note, I really, really don't want to get into a bash here. I feel you have very strong feelings one way and I another. If you are really interested in what I have to say and believe in, I am more than happy to respond.
But, on the other hand if you are trying to just discredit my faith and belief, it won't happen here or anywhere else.
I know who I am...I know what I believe.
If you really want answers, I will try to answer them, but not just to argue. To me that is not religion or what God whould want. I know that if you pray about things and then ask, sometimes it makes more sense. I hope some of this answers your "thinking outloud."
Oh, by the way, I like your name....freebubbles.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245073 06/28/06 11:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Quote:
In his vision of the redemption of the dead, President Joseph F. Smith saw �the great and mighty ones� assembled to meet the Son of God, and among them was �our glorious Mother Eve�.


I am going to assume from this quote that you follow the Mormon or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I just want to point out that there are many discrepancies between your faith and Christianity. This is I guess one of the first ones.

Just because God was able to use the fall of Adam and Eve to His purpose and turn it into a good thing does not make it not a sin. Anytime you go directly against the Word of God (in this case it was spoken directly to them instead of written in the Bible first) - it is a sin. It was a choice, but it was a sin. They would not have been punished, had to repent, and then forgiven were it not a sin.


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245074 06/28/06 11:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
I am going to assume from this quote that you follow the Mormon or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I just want to point out that there are many discrepancies between your faith and Christianity. This is I guess one of the first ones. From Bella Harmony

Isn't ist interesting that nothing I have said has been judgmental of any other Group or Religion and yet as soon as the wheels start turning in one posters mind, up jumps the old judgmental statement "there is discrepancies between your faith and Christianity." Yet, in the other part of her statement she suggests that I belong to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". Now that is waht I call a discrpancie.
I am not here to judge which church is true. I only found the topic interesting. I will not post if it offends you that I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. The same Jesus Christ that walked on wather, that was crucified, that healed the sick, that was born in a stable and did not intend for His followers to fight over who believed in Him and who didn't. Please forgive me if I have offended anyone. I know that is not what He would want. He came to share love and wanted us to do the same. I love Him and I kown He lives. Goodbye my short lived friends. Keep searching for the truth and the truth will make you free.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245075 06/29/06 02:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
thanks Ginlovin i like you name too. I don't think Bella was putting you down. i think she was pointing out that you are not from a whats the word I'm looking for Protestant? Are Mormons Protestant? Anyway that was going to be my next question, and since she answered it for me (bty thank you bella) i have another question that is kinda off topic. what are the differences between Mormons and any other denomination?


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245076 06/29/06 02:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Yes, I did not mean my post to be offensive. Just pointing out why we seem to disagree on this point is probably because we were taught differently.

Sometimes it is very hard to do these things online, because it's hard to get my tone of voice across and I am misunderstood. I try very hard to be even handed with everyone.

I apologize that I have hurt your feelings and I hope you will not feel you are being run off from this thread (especially not by me.) <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245077 06/29/06 05:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
Thank you for the private and forum invites back. That speaks well of both of you to be so kind. I really do appreciate you being so considerate of my feelings. I know that there are many who do not understand our religion. You are not the first to think we are not Christians and you won't be the last.
The basic difference in our Church and other religions is that we believe that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are two separate beings. That they both have a body of flesh and bones. The the third member of the God Head is the Holy Ghost and is a spirit which is with us to guide us and direct us as we ask Him to or as we are in tune with Him. We do not believe in infant baptism, but believe in baptism by immersion when a child reaches the age of accountabilty which is 8 years old. By then they are old enough to know to some degree if they want to be baptised or not. Up to then they are pretty much free of sin.
I guess the other thing that is very different in our religion is that we believe in a living Prophet. In the Bible there was always a Prophet to guide the people. Why would God love us any less now and leave us here without a Prophet to guide and direct us. Our Prophet is Gorden B. Hinckley who just turned 96 I think. I think he is the 14th Prophet but I might have miscounted.
Well, there is much more to it than that but those are the basic differences. The polygomy thing always comes up, but that hasn't been practiced for many, many years by our church. Break off groups still practice it but they are not part of us. That would take another post if anyone was interested to explain.
Hope I haven't bored you too much.
But please know that I do believe in Jesus the Christ, the son of God. I know Him as my Savior and Redeemer.
I pray to Him and I read about Him in the Bible and Book of Mormon (which is just another testiment of Him).
Thank you again.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245078 06/29/06 05:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Ok i worked in a narzeine boarding school and the mail churches on the reservation was Catolic and The church of Latter Day Saints. Some of the kids use to ask me about teithing and made comments about if there parents did not teth the took away there holy underwear... Do you have any idea what they are talking about? (keep in mind these kids were Navajo and Hopi and between 5 and 10 yrs old)
and what is polygomy?
and the Book of Mormon is that the same books that the Catholics have?


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245079 06/29/06 06:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
<img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> more then one wife wow i cant even imageine the inlaws wow sorry never saw the term before. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ok skip that question and on to the Book Of Mormon!?


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245080 06/29/06 06:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
First request, please note the name of our church is;
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, not just the Church of the Latter Day Saints. If you don't want to write all of that just put LDS, but please remember it has Jesus Christ in the name.
Second question was about the underwear. We do wear an under garment that is very sacred, not secret, to us after we have gone to one of our Temples. They are very symbolic of covenants we have made with the Lord and we do not like to display them to the world because the are so special to us. They represent our relationship with the savior.
Peaople from many religions have worn different clothing that represent their devotion to God. Jews, Catholics, etc.

Next question was, "what is polygomy?" It is when a man is married to more than one woman. In the early part of our church they practiced it and I can only speculate as to why because I have read and heard of different reasons. Some say it was to restore all things that were practice in the bible during Abraham, Issac and Jacobs time on earth. Others say it was because there were so many women in the church without men and needed help on the trip west from Nauvoo Illinois to Salt Lake City. The last reason and the one I believe true is that the church needed to grow and there were definately more women than men. Therefore the men took more than one wife and the church grew very fast.
When the US government made it unlawful, the LDS church stopped practicing it.

The other question was about the Book of Mormaon. No the Catholics do not have it, unless it was given to one of them by an LDS person. We believe it was given to Joseph Smith in the early 1800's in the form of gold plates which had been hidden for many years. He was given the power and inspiration to translate what was written on them by the pre Columbian people of the American continant into the Book of Mormon. It is another testiment of Jesus Christ. I'm sure you have heard stories that the Native Americans tell of the great White God who visited them here on the American continant.
It is a beautiful book of Scriptures and goes hand in hand with the Bible. We read and study both.
Thank you for your questions and letters.
I love to share my love for the Savior and for our purposes here on earth.
It is so hard to tell so much in such a small post, but I hope you understand us a bit more.
I am happy to give refrences to web pages if you want to read more or answer more if I can.
Oh, by the way...Mormon's don't have horns.LOL.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245081 06/30/06 03:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Ginlovin,

Glad to see you gave us (me) another chance!

Welcome back. <img src="/images/graemlins/kiss.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245082 06/30/06 04:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
We have a church a couple of streets over that is The Church Of Latter Day Saints is that a different Church From the LDS?

Second the Navajo and Hopi Do not have a story of the Great White God that is handed down, that is not to say other tribes dont. In the Navajo and Hopi language there is not a word for GOD, GODDESS, or Deity of anykind but the refere to our God as the Bellagonna God, tranclating in to the white mans God but Bellagonna means moveing right arm and is meant to be offencive by calling us untrustworthy.
most of the kids and there families would believe in God Father Son and Holy Spirit but they would not believe in church and how we failed to follow the word of God. they see the church as haveing a one a day God that must be the computer and money!!! (i was out there in 1999 and the Y2K think was over blown.) long story!!!

third, Thanks for explaning about the undergarment!!! the kids tried to explan but there was a lot missing in the translation from there language to mine!!! Most of the little kids came from deep reservation land and they have to learn english as they go and the are not allowed to talk in there native tougued so they learn english fast as far as understanding what we say but they have a hard time trandlating what they want to say... I was hoping you would not be offened by the question and would have an idea about what they ment.

forth, I had heard about polygamy but i did not reconize the word. i have dyslexia and sometimes the words dont look like what i think they should so i looked it up and thought oh duh!!
SO, this is fun!!! what does the Book of Mormon teach? that would be the different then the Bible. (I dont nessaeary mean goes against the bible but no included in the bible...differant.)


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245083 07/01/06 06:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and LDS is the same. LDS is just an abreviation we sometimes use instead of "Mormon".
I think that it is more in South America that they talk about the vist of a white God that visited this continant.
I will have to look up the name they called him by. It starts with a Q.
The Book of Mormon is about a group of people that traveled from Jerusalem 500 years before Christ was born. They were commanded to leave Jerusalem before it was destroyed and guided to the ocean. There they built a ship under the direction of the Lord and landed on the American continant.
They grew into a large group of people which inhabitat north and south America. The Meso American people and possibly the American Indian. When Christ was Cricified He visited these people in this land as He did in the land of Jerusalem after His ressurection. Do you remember in the Bible where it says, "other sheep I have which are not of this fold," and then something to the affect that them too shall I visit?
The Book of Mormon tells of Him coming here at that time. The people here saw Him. Therefore The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ that goes along with the Bible. It tells how the people fought over land, money, religion, etc much the same as we do today. It is a record kept by people many, many years ago to help us today.
It has helped answer many question I have had in raising my family as well as in my private struggles.
Hope you find this helpful and interesting. Thanks for asking.

Last edited by ginlovin7; 07/01/06 06:20 AM.

G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245084 07/01/06 06:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Cool!!! so would you say that you study the bible or the Book of Mormon more or is it about the same? or is the book of Mormon concerted part of the Bible like the Catolics books are? its late i hope that made sence good night!!!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245085 07/01/06 06:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
About the same, but I have a hard time reading the Old Testiment. I don't find it as interesting. I'm working on it. In Church we rotate a different one each year. Old Testiment, New Testiment, Book of Mormon, etc.

The name of the white God I was talking about is Quetzalcoatl.
Have you ever heard of that? You can look it up on the internet.
Late indeed. Goodnight.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245086 07/01/06 07:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
yea and im still here!!! i have never heard of it but you could say it a differnt way then what i am reading it too so i will look it up and see... i have a hard time with the old testement too!!! I think partly because i feel like its...i dont know but its like the wrath and jugdement of God and that does not mess well with a kind and loveing God and partly because so much has been taken out of context to hurt and munipualate people who are different. for example many women where killed at the Salam Witch trails because of the verse that says thou shall not suffer a witch to live, we have people pickiting the funnarals of serve men and women because the story of Sodom and Gomora. not to menchen all the wife beaters and child abusers that use it to justiefy there actions!!! I dont think that is what God intended it for but i have a hard time intupating it in another way because that was how i was taught to believe in church... so here i am stuggling to find my way.?!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245087 07/01/06 10:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
I thought a Quetzalcoatl was a type of "dragon" - with a bird's head and feather's in a rainbow pattern - supposedd to be very beautiful.

It is a Mayan god I believe...

Here's the wikipedia link:

wikipedia: Quetzalcoatl


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245088 07/01/06 05:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
I have read the Book of Mormon and compared it to the Biblical teachings of Jesus in the New Testament and have found many contradictions. So my OPINION is that it is not necessarily another testament of Jesus Christ, but a book written according to one mans desire to live the way he thought was the right way to live. It seems to me that it reflects back alot to the way the Israelites lived before and right after the Ten Commandments. I just have a hard time thinking that Jesus gave directions at one time and then changed his mind and gave conflicting directions to "move ahead with the times". It goes against the idea that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. If Jesus can change his mind about marriage for instance being between one woman and one man, then what else can he change his mind on... my salvation? Is it not of grace? If we have to follow directions to get to heaven,it becomes legalistic and that's not the way Jesus taught. He taught that all of us are important to God and all of us are loved, not just those who follow all the right rules.

I'm not bashing on anyones beliefs, just adding some of my own view points. So if your feelings are hurt, I'm sorry, thats not my intention.

I do feel that there is a remnant within every church that follows Christ with their hearts and feels his presence in their lives. So, realize that on a mature level, not all theological teaching is for the drawing near to the Spirit of God, but for the profit of man. I firmly believe that the path to true Christianity is the following of Jesus Christ. He came over 2000 years ago to show us how to love and how to live. He showed us the Father. All we have to do is get out of our own heads and follow him.


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245089 07/01/06 05:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
Sometimes the feeling of being judged comes from our own perspective. If we don't give others the right to hurt us with their judgements then they don't hurt us. If we let God's Word stand on it's own then it will stand in our hearts. It's a matter of perspective...


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245090 07/01/06 05:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
BiblBasixEditor Offline
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 764
A while back while studying the book of Revelation I did a comparison of Native American descriptions of their spirit animals such as the one you described and found alot of descriptions to be similar to the descriptions in Revelation. Check it out!


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245091 07/02/06 12:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
Thank you for you interesting views. I do respect all opinions because mine are very fixed and strong through study and prayer. I read and learn constantly, but my faith lies in experience and answers to prayers which I dare not deny. I do not have my feelings hurt. I very happy that you took the time to read the Book of Mormon.
I hope you took the time to pray and ask your Heavenly Father with a sincere heart if it was true...and then listened with your heart and mind to His answer.

It is a very windy rainy day here today, but very close to the 4th of July. What a great country we live in. What a beautiful world we have been given. I am very thankful we are all brothers and sisters and will one day know the truth of all things and won't have to type on these little keys with so many questions. Gosh, I don't even know what all of you look like. I have bright red hair. I colored it myself. Later, gator.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245092 07/02/06 12:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
We certainly have gotten off the subject.
Who was the silly one who started talking about those "crazy mormons" anyway? LOL


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245093 07/02/06 05:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Bella's fault she brought it up and i Ran with it so it more my fault Anyways, I'm a Blond so you know...(explains alot don't it!!!) Im 26 and a <img src="/images/graemlins/lovers.gif" alt="" />newlywed <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />i think how long can i clam newlywed? 3 months- 10 years?!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />married me an older guy because i gave up on kids my age <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />!!!lol i dont have kids or brother-sisters. I am a starving massage therapist (if i had known i was going to be broke i might have been a writer misspelled words and all!!! HA) Im curious (so what else is knew lol)
Did you say that the Book of Mormon was found and was wrote on Golden Plates? Where were they found and who wrote them? and you said something about a Prophet is he-she elected and our them concerted like the Pope to be inflammable?

Its been in the 90's and 100's here but they think it may rain the night of the 4th after the fireworks and i have spaklers!!! I feel like im 7 yrs old <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> besides that we are in a drought so let it rain let it rain let it rain!!!! 40 days and 40 nights slow and gentle with rolling thunder!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245094 07/02/06 06:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
40 days and 40 nights huh? Better start building an arc.
If you build it, it will rain:)

The writings on the Gold plates was a record kept by an ancient people. They were told to keep a record of their existance on the American Continent so we would know that they had lived here for many years. They started as a small family and friends and grew into a very large group of people. It tells of their struggles, wars, history, prophets and was kept for our generation. I was about two groups of peopld, the Lamanites and the Nephites. Each group fought with the other group, until the darker skin people killed off all of the darker skinned people. I shows how when the people lied righteously the prospered and did better than when they were fighting al of the time.
The last persont to write on the Plates of Gold was a great captain called Maroni. He hid the record he and many before him had been keeping, on the plates in a large box made of stone in upstate NY. After the Dark ages a young boy of 14 inquired of God through prayer which of all the churchs aroud that area was true.
After a few minutes God the father and His son Jesus Christ appeared to him and told him that all of the religions had parts of the truth, but not all of it. They told him that they would teach him and that in time they would give him the plates of Gold to translate into another book.
Anyway, he was visited by the Angel Moroni.....the one who had buried the plates, that when he was older he would give them to him to translate. He told him that he would meet with often and after about four years, he gave him the plaes. He then through inspiration translated them into the Book of mormaon.

As for the question about our Prophet. When a mob of men
shot and killed Joseph, then the leaders under him prayed and talked about who would take Josep's place. They all voted and all came up with the same man. The new prophet became Brigham Young. After that, they have followe the same routine. The curent 12 vote and it always comes up the same person. Then that man is presented to all of the members of the Church and we can either raise our hand in agreement or raise our hand to disagree. We do that with every person in every position in the Church.
There is no paid position in the Church. It is all done for free.
Well I hope I answered your questions. By the way, what religion are you? Or would you rather not say?
Later...

Last edited by ginlovin7; 07/02/06 07:03 AM.

G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245095 07/02/06 07:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
I was raised Nazarene... but at the moment i am up in the air you might say!!! I'm Christian but i dont know what denomination to clam and non-denominational is a denomination in and of its self!!!lol anyways, I learn more by studying on my own instead of conforming to a church that insist I believe there way or go to hell. I have to question EVERY THING and talk and think it out for my self because when i stop asking questions and conform i get apathetic and go into autopilot and believe what ever the church believes right or wrong just to fit in and i hate myself later. I have always been drawn to symbology, natural healing and touch therapies(Im a Reiki Master) Im getting into Mythology. I tend to believe thati have to find my own path and system of believes...i think differently and interpreter the Bible differently too. so i have questions that are off the wall at times!!lol But i think its because most churches here have alot of politics she today we believe this says that but tomorrow it means this. I CANT STAND THAT!!! and some of what i was taught to believe is just wrong and not even what the Word says but you can find the versus word for word!!! for example Spare the Rod , spoil the child. its there but its not a licence to beat you kids!!! and Women are to remain silent does not mean we are stupid and unable to hold a role in are lives!!! things like that and i wont even bring up the virus that says thou shall not suffer a witch to life or any thing on Homosexuals or sumit to husbands!!!!

I truly believe if we can take Church out of state we should take the poltics out of Church!!!!

wow that was a loaded answer!!! lol sorry


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245096 07/03/06 01:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 74
M
Miss_Amy Offline
Amoeba
Offline
Amoeba
M
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 74
This is off topic and a bit irrelevant so Forum Moderator feel free to delete this if you want.

Ginlovin7, I realize how you got your screen name...from your real name. But do you realize that your screen name implies that you like to drink alcohol?

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ as well and was a bit taken a back that you would have a screen name like that and be a member of the church.

I am figuring it was just an oversight. I had a screen name of Gib12 once and didn't realize anything was wrong until one guy told me GIB stood for "Good in Bed". YIKES! Took that off in a hurry.

Anyway, thats all I wanted to say.


Amy R. Kendall
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245097 07/03/06 03:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
lol i did not even notices but i just she is right, it could imply that oh well if you put enough thought in to mine it could sound dirty too!!! lol later


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245098 07/03/06 04:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
My name is Ginger Lovinna and I have 7 children. If you want to get real technical you could think I love "Gin". But what it really means is I am Gin Lovin with 7 kids. I like to think of it as Gin Loving 7 beautiful children. I know it is really easy to read into things, that is why we are taught in the church not to Judge. Hope this helps you understand. Lovinna was my Grandmother's name. She died 2 days after I was born and her husband, by grandfather 5 days after that. Within a week my mom lost both parents. I am very pround of the name Lovinna and try to use it as often as possible.
Where did you get your name Miss Amy and where are you from. It's nice to have you here. I probably won't change my name.....because I don't drink Gin. I drink Coke.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245099 07/03/06 04:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
I drink Diet Coke!!!! no one wants my rat posion either; more for me!!! lol ps i like your namejust the way it is! I came up with freebubbles and the story is in the self development under your forum name i think!!! anyways it was started by familychoice and has a poll. you should read it it good for a laugh!!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245100 07/03/06 05:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
oops the story is under beauty and self>self development!! sorry happy reading


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245101 07/03/06 05:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 74
M
Miss_Amy Offline
Amoeba
Offline
Amoeba
M
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 74
I got my name because it is the name I was given by my parents upon my birth. Miss is because I am a single homeschooling mother.

I am from all around the United States since my ex was in the Military. Currently I live on top of a mountain.

I am an editor here at Bella.

I figured from your signature that your screen name was from your real name...as I said before. Just letting you know how it could be interpreted in case you didn't already know, but it sounds like you did so just disregard.


Amy R. Kendall
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245102 07/04/06 12:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
No problem. Thanks for having my interest in mind. I must say I have been called worse.
Anyway, when I first moved to NY I had a neighbor from the South and she made all of her children call people Miss or Mr. and then say their first name. Like Miss Ginger
or "Miss Amy". That is why I like your name. I always tried to talk her out of it, but she insisted. It was great to move from a very small town in UT. to a very highly populated area in Upstate NY. Culture Shock!
I learned to love it. Now why am I here in a small town talking about Adam and Eve and Lucifer, when I could be helping with the Hill Cumorah Pageant again.

I homeschooled two of my children for 1 year each. Love it.

Can you fix my 18 year old daughter.

I want to send her back to Adam and Eve. LOL


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245103 07/04/06 07:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 74
M
Miss_Amy Offline
Amoeba
Offline
Amoeba
M
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 74
LOL...I don't think I can help your daughter.

I have my kids call everyone Sir and Ma'am. WE don't get into using Mr. much but we do call closer female family friends "Miss so-and-so"


Amy R. Kendall
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245104 07/05/06 10:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
I was taught yes-no Sir Ma'am and Miss young lady and mrs. old lady and Mr. man I called EVERY WOMAN Miss. somebody because it was any insult to call a woman mrs. because it implyed you thought they were old no matter if they were married or not!!!

I had a teacher in 7th grade that we went rounds because she thought i was being disresepctful to her by calling her Miss. Lathom and i thought in was insulting to call her Mrs. Lathom. I just could not bring myself to call her that unless i was mad at her and ment to insult her!! Anyways my aunt was a teacher and they were at a meeting and got to talking and my aunt explaned that was the way i was raised... Boy did i get in trouble when she found out that I had not called her Mrs. lathom to keep from geting in trouble but because i was mad and ment it as an insult!!! lol


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245105 08/15/06 02:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
what happened to Ginlovin7??


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245106 08/15/06 06:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
G
ginlovin7 Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
G
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 28
I'm still around. I haven't had much to write about lately.
I recently had hip replacement and have been walking a lot to get back into shape. I feel soooo much better than before. Thank you for asking about me. Gvin.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245107 08/16/06 01:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
freebubbles2 Offline
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Im glad you are feeling better!!!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Sunnie - Bible Basics 

Brand New Posts
Filling the storehouse
by Lynne - ChristianLiving - 05/30/20 12:57 PM
Who Do You Say He Is
by Lynne - ChristianLiving - 05/22/20 04:18 PM
When God Interrupts Your Plans
by Lynne - ChristianLiving - 05/21/20 12:50 PM
Mental Health Awareness
by Tuculia - 05/21/20 03:35 AM
Understanding Home Sewing Patterns
by Angie - 05/17/20 03:37 PM
2020: On this day . . .
by Mona - Astronomy - 05/17/20 11:05 AM
Skip the Calorie Counting
by Alice - Weight Loss - 05/15/20 03:15 PM
Moons of Mars - Facts for Kids
by Mona - Astronomy - 05/15/20 10:08 AM
Alaska - A State apart
by DebFrost - Alaska - 05/13/20 06:49 PM
Basic Brioche Stitches
by Korie - Folklore//Knitting/Yoga Editor - 05/12/20 07:00 PM
Privacy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you and updates on any topics you choose to watch. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!
Channel List
Beauty & Self
Books & Music
Career
Computers
Education
Family
Food & Wine
Health & Fitness
Hobbies & Crafts
Home & Garden
Money
News & Politics
Relationships
Religion & Spirituality
Sports
Travel & Culture
TV & Movies
Safety
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
Sponsor


| About BellaOnline | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Editor |
Website copyright © 2020 Minerva WebWorks LLC. All rights reserved.


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3