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Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245062 06/23/06 01:14 AM
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Gecko
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It's important that I take the opportunity to emphasise that IMHO, anyone following a faith, creed or doctrine blindly, would do well to re-assess their personal evaluation of their own policy - no matter what their Religious or Spiritual path. My opinion on such people applies to Buddhists, Moslems, Hindus, or followers of any Discipline. Following any Path blindly, is at best, questionable, at worst, foolish

I agree with you on this point. All I was saying is that the tone of some much earlier posts could have led some to believe that you felt this way only about Christians here on this board, not that this is a personal characteristic of yours that youc arry with you everywhere you go, I don't belieive this. Quite the contrary, i think you are a very educated woman who has done her homework and has something to say.

i don't want anyone to think I am bashing Alexandra in my earlier post. That is not my intention, just that the TONE of some posts could be misconstrued, please don't do get confused by that. i'm positive that everyone here is writing with the most impeccable intentions....


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245063 06/23/06 02:25 AM
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Gecko
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ginlovin,

Please note the date of some of the posts... many of these posters have moved on and their discussion fallen by the way side.

All views are accepted,e ven those we don't understand. I hope you hang out for a while and see some of the dynamic that makes this such a good forum...

Oh and religion can such a hot button topic. Sometimes when you feel yurself getting angry about something someone else wrote, try reading it in a different frame of mind. Most of the time what someone wrote and the way we read it has a lot to with how we respond.

If your interested in how I feel and what my beliefs are read my articles...

Free bubbles - all is forgiven. Boy, makes me wonder who sent you this email and what it said!


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
Bella Online Bible Basics
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245064 06/24/06 05:50 AM
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ginlovin7 Offline
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You are right. Maybe I should select another topic to get involved in since I have such strong and tender feelings about religion. I certainly don't feel good about arguing about it. I just picked up at a bad spot. I'll move on and check out some of the other posts. Thank you for your response.


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245065 06/27/06 04:16 PM
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Now that all is settled down!!! lol i have a question for Ginlovin:
in an earlier post you posted that eve made a choice but it was not a sin and that they were immortal before she ate the apple and that they became mortal Right?
this would explain why they didn't died right away and they lived for 100's of years back then!!! But Adam and Eve still disobeyed God by eating the apple so wouldn't that be a sin?
I'm not picking a fight i promise i am just doing research on religions and how people interpret the Bible. please give us one more chance!!!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245066 06/27/06 11:12 PM
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I believe we are given different choices every day. We are free to choose one thing or another. When I tell my children that they should not go out in the rain because if they do they will surly get wet, I have given them a choice. I don't mean to minimize the story of Adam and Eve and that is probably a very poor example, but maybe will help you understand where I am coming from.
I also tell them I need a carrot from the garden. That gives them a choice. Should they obey one of my requests or the other?
Adam and Eve were told not to "eat of the forbidden fruit" and to "multiply and replenish the earth". They had to choose one over the other. If they had not eaten of the fruit, they would have remained immortal and so would the whole earth. They would not have known "good from evil"
(which they did not know before that...meaning sin...)and they along with the earth would have remained the same forever in that innocent state. You and I would not be here.
Therefore it was a choice between to things not a "sin"
If you will stop and think about what a sin is you will come to know in your heart and mind that it was not a sin compared to all other sins we know of. Does that make sense to you?


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245067 06/28/06 12:45 AM
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AHhhhhhhh, here's the kind of debate I like! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But when God came looking for Adam and Eve in the garden they had covered themselves and were trying to hide from Him. So wouldn't that imply they felt guilty? And guilt comes after sinning; so therefore they sinned.


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245068 06/28/06 02:45 AM
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that does make sence in a way but they did disobey God like your kids disobey when they go out in the rain. but your right in one way because the all other sin in the bible is sin that will harm us or others. i always wondered why the fruit on that tree would be sinfull to eat...


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245069 06/28/06 09:54 AM
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Alexandra Offline
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Quote:
I believe we are given different choices every day. ....

Adam and Eve were told not to "eat of the forbidden fruit" and to "multiply and replenish the earth". They had to choose one over the other. If they had not eaten of the fruit, they would have remained immortal and so would the whole earth. They would not have known "good from evil"
(which they did not know before that...meaning sin...)and they along with the earth would have remained the same forever in that innocent state. You and I would not be here.
Therefore it was a choice between to things not a "sin"


I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there...
Adam and Eve were not given a choice, they were given a command. You said so yourself, here above.
God never said,
'Look guys, it's up to you, but if you want my advice, I wouldn't do it....but the choice is yours...."

Temptation (bad boy, sepent!!) convinced them to do otherwise, so they were led into sinning.... They chose to disobey, but it wasn't through the Choice God gave them, it was through the temptation placed before them....

Choice and Temptation may be similar, but the former does not imply good or bad - whereas the latter may do, to a degree.....

Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245070 06/28/06 05:47 PM
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This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin � for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do
Some acts, like murder, are crimes because they are inherently wrong. Other acts, like operating without a license, are crimes only because they are legally prohibited. Under these distinctions, the act that produced the Fall was not a sin�inherently wrong�but a transgression�wrong because it was formally prohibited. These words are not always used to denote something different, but this distinction seems meaningful in the circumstances of the Fall.
I believe that "our first parents understood the necessity of the Fall. Adam declared, �Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God�

"Note the different perspective and the special wisdom of Eve, who focused on the purpose and effect of the great plan of happiness: �Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient�. In his vision of the redemption of the dead, President Joseph F. Smith saw �the great and mighty ones� assembled to meet the Son of God, and among them was �our glorious Mother Eve�.
I also believe that "when we understand the plan of salvation, we also understand the purpose and effect of the commandments God has given his children. He teaches us correct principles and invites us to govern ourselves. We do this by the choices we make in mortality."
"Whatever else happened in Eden, in his supreme moment of testing, Adam made a choice."
"After the Lord commanded Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth and commanded them not to partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, He said: �Nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die�
"There was too much at issue to introduce man into mortality by force. That would contravene the very law essential to the plan. The plan provided that each spirit child of God would receive a mortal body and each would be tested. Adam saw that it must be so and made his choice. �Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy� .
"Adam and Eve ventured forth to multiply and replenish the earth as they had been commanded to do. The creation of their bodies in the image of God, as a separate creation, was crucial to the plan. Their subsequent fall was essential if the condition of mortality was to exist and the plan proceed."
Much of what I have posted are quotes but they support the point I am trying to make better than my own words can. I hope it is OK to do this and if you want references I can give them. Please send me a private message for the references.
Let me know what you think of these thoughts


G.Lovinna
Re: Article on Pre-Adamic fall of Lucifer. #245071 06/28/06 06:44 PM
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ok so how do you explane Adam and Eve hiding from God if it was a choice not a sin? why would they be ashamed? oh course i have made choices that i am ashamed of that were not realy sins but... i dont hide from God or try...

Ok this is probley redunded but... so Adam and Eve were immortal in immortal bodies then they made a choice to eat the apple and get mortal bodys and exentualy die. so why would they choice to give up the image of God and eternal life? What did they think was so great about being mortals? and what was so wrong with being immortal? and if it is that bad then why do we strife so hard to go to heaven and life happily ever after? i am reambbling sorry just thinking out loud!!!LOL


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
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