logo
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 67
Amoeba
OP Offline
Amoeba
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 67
I am against death penalty...
it must be remembered that criminals are real people too who have life and with it the capacity to feel pain, fear and the loss of their loved ones, and all the other emotions that the rest of us are capable of feeling

Sponsored Post Advertisement
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Unless you have been the victim of violent crime at the hands of one of these monsters you really dont know what you are saying...

I believe the death penalty is an appropriate sentence for those offenders who have commited crimes so gross it is beyond the comprehension of others...They have no right to exist in this world once they cross that line.

I am really sorry if I sound "cold" or "harsh" but this is something I feel strongly about and although I hear your opinion I disagree but I respect your right to say what you think.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Freespirit...
I have been.

I still oppose the death penalty.

just my input. And exactly as you do, I completely concur with your last phrase....I hear you, I respect you.
<img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,462
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,462
I am against the death penalty in all forms. I have been the victim of a violent crime, I still don't believe the death penalty is just in any way possible.

Meg


Meg
The World is Our Classroom!
Homeschooling

Exotic Pets
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 152
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 152
I oppose the death penalty for a number of reasons, but the obvious one is the inability to assure that it is indeed the guilty indvidual who is killed. There are too many stories of innocently convicted people being on death row only to be later on proven innocent...some posthumeously.

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Doesn't make sense to claim one supports and loves life, yet kill in the name of the law.

Am against the death penalty.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
If some of these monsters that commit these henious crimes get the death penalty or not they have recieved the death penalty spiritually anyway...I belive this with all my heart.

There is no place in paradise for these people.They shall rot for etirnity and that is a nice thing to know.It is of some comfort.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
I'm against the death penalty because I believe it's taking human life away as 'punishment' or revenge - it probably does serve as a deterrent, but I think it's too harsh to be used as such.


Today is good <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I do not support the death penalty. Either by the state or by a mother's own hands. I am pro life. If killing someone who has murdered someone else is wrong then how much more heinous is abortion? The killing of the totally innocent.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
I don't think that the two are moral equivalents and totally support the right of a woman to choose, within reasonable limits, what she does with her own reproductive capacity. I also support the right for those who are suffering pain and degradation, (such as extreme cases of motor neurone disease), to voluntarily (stress that!), choose euthanasia. But I respect others' rights to their opinions <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

best wishes - Jane


Today is good <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2
V
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
V
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2
When you strip away all the arguments about personhood and reproductive choice you are left with two realities.
1. A fetus is human.
2. Abortion ends the life of a fetus.
Therefore, abortion ends the life of a human being. The two are morally equivalent except killing the unborn child is worse because they have done nothing to provoke such an act of violence nor can they even speak in their own defense.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
The above poster is known also as Texasdave4.... Unfortunately for him, after posting in the Buddhism forum ('TEXASDAVE4 IS BACK!') .....He's been banned.

Again.

Until the next time.

It's a shame..... he just can't resist it, can he....?
Or maybe he's just drawn by the overwhelming female pheromones....! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Yes, and now I'm back as "anonymous". They can't keep me off of here. Eventually they'll give up. I will return. With the same message of truth from Jesus Christ. Is it really possible to ban the truth? I think not. Jesus said that this world would pass away but His Word would never pass away. I know some would like to think otherwise. Stay tuned!!

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382

I guess it is good in a way not to put the evil (bleep)to death because the death penalty is really the easy way out isint it?

Our worst mass killer is rotting in prison and has been bashed many times so that is in a way better than getting the death penalty.As soon as he heals he just gets bashed again.Great justice dont you think?

I guess if all offenders of awful crimes were punished this way the death penalty is a bad thing then.It would be better to keep them alive and rotting away in jail for life killing them I guess is the easy way out for them - probably what the sickos want - infact that mass killer I told you about has tried to kill himself 4 times so far.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
What you are therefore saying then, Freespirit, is that the death penalty is redundant, because it does not act as a deterrent to other criminals... Don't you see? it does nothing to stop these crimes re-ocurring, and crime is on the increase.... What you are saying is keep them alive and let them be subjected to regular beatings....
But is that the right way to go? Is that justified? Does this not take us back to the times of torture and public floggings....? is that a 'pretty' image to advance into the 21st century with?

There are many in the UK who actually support birching, flogging and visible public punishment of criminals... Exposure to ridicule and humiliation is seen by some, as being a suitable and acceptable means of attempting to quell criminal tendencies, and to stop new offenders in their tracks.
But there is something depressingly inhumane and barbaric about such measures....

However, this said, I personally am unable to put forward a viable, universally acceptable and workable alternative.

But the Death penalty Does Not Work.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Yes the death penalty does not work - I admit that...
But the alternative does.

Why shouldnt these bastards suffer????They are supposed to be punished.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004
Wolf
Offline
Wolf
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004
We can not give life. How can we take it away? Death penalty is murder by the society.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
We cannot give life???

Isint that what we do when we decide to have children?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
No.... We are equipped with the necessary tools to PROcreate - The necessary components already exist - we are just bringing them together... I think what cdmohatta means is, that procreating Life is quite different to creating a living existence from scratch... from nothing at all...

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Quote:
Yes the death penalty does not work - I admit that...
But the alternative does.

Why shouldnt these bastards suffer????They are supposed to be punished.

No, the alternative doesn't work either.... Tell me or show me where it does....

Who says they are 'supposed to be punished'? In this way? WHY Should they suffer?

The moment we choose to inflict pain, suffering and humiliation on a human being, we are no better than they are. We can use the excuse that it is in a controlled environment, and that we have justification - but in this case, you could therefore explain every perceived atrocity at the hands of dictators...They thought that what they did was justified.
No amount of cruelty, pain or suffering inflicted on another sentient being is excusable or justifyable... whatever the reason, and whoever does it.

Last edited by Alexandra; 04/25/06 04:22 AM.
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
[Anonymous posts are against forum policy]

Last edited by BellaOnline; 04/28/06 03:00 PM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
I don't know how to work the quotation thingy on here!

Dave - I don't believe that a fetus is a human because in my belief system the soul incarnates into the body only fully at birth. That's my belief, and I realise that you disagree.

What I'd like to ask you about is why provocation renders capital punishment 'worse'? How then are they morally equivalent, and why, if to you life (wherever it starts) is sacred, does it make a difference why it's taken?

I'm sorry you've been banned (not sure what for) - as I respect your motives and find your arguments interesting and informative - even though I don't agree always.

best wishes - Jane <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Today is good <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
What is the "alternative," you mention, freespirit? Jail?

It is disingenuous for a society to say that we, as a collective, value life and abhor murder and then practice the opposite.


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
T
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
T
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
I believe that there are crimes so terrible that execution is an issue to carried out and decided by the offended party, for instance someone who raped, tortured my 13 year old in way to ghastly and morbid to describe to anyone, yet alone me, the childs mother. I believe the sentence to be executed should be reviewed by a jury, and judge, and then metered out by the hand of the injured parties. If they can kill the individual the individual dies. If they do they live with there very core of being and maybe it will provide some comfort or maybe they will simply not do it. But it really is upto the people who have to live with knowing this monster breathes

Interesting question.


I am curious, artistic and looking for inspiration and things that give me goosebumps in this beautiful world. I try to find humor in life or something not readily visible.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Very well said tobasco...I bet if people were in your shoes they would be singing a different tune.

The fact hat these bastrds are aloud to live is an out rage in itself but the fact that they are rotting away in jail without any chance of release is nice and comforting to know.

They keep the worst ones here in total isolation and it actually sends them crazy <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but still the other prisoners manage to get to them somehow...Prisoners dont take to kindley to people who tourture children. The poor kid was cut up while still alive for [bleep] sake!! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Does someone like that desrve to be bashed constantley? - you bloody bet! I will NEVER change my views on this and I know many others feel the same.

<img src="/images/graemlins/wall.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
Quote:
It is disingenuous for a society to say that we, as a collective, value life and abhor murder and then practice the opposite.


Well said. I've always been an advocate of teaching by example*. If a government demonstrates that it's perfectly acceptable to kill or execute someone for what they have (or have not done in some cases) done, then how can you then portray murder as being wrong?

In the UK there were cases of innocent people being hung. I guess that makes the executioner a murderer, so should he have been hung too? Where does it end?

I feel the same way about war. How can you expect countries that treat their population badly, or invade other countries, to act in a civilised way when the response to the problem is to drop cluster bombs on innocent women and children?

Violence breeds more violence, whether it's by individuals or by a government.

I'm all hot and flustered now so I'll just leave it there.

* it's true, ask anyone.


Mind Flight Sonic Warriors free mp3's and hilarious movies involving swans by Robert P. Abelson "The field of statistics is misunderstood by ... Reviewer/1976:,
Peter Flom "statistical consultant" (New York, NY USA) - See ...
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
[Anonymous posts are against forum policy]

Last edited by BellaOnline; 04/28/06 02:59 PM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
So the allies have been dropping cluster bombs BY ACCIDENT....ah, thank you for clearing that up Davey, I feel much better about that now.

I'd like to say it's nice to see you again*, but as you've just attempted to justify the killing of tens of thousands of innocent civilians it's really not actually that nice at all.

What is that smell in here...has someone let one off? No, it's texasdave!

* but I'd be lying


Mind Flight Sonic Warriors free mp3's and hilarious movies involving swans by Robert P. Abelson "The field of statistics is misunderstood by ... Reviewer/1976:,
Peter Flom "statistical consultant" (New York, NY USA) - See ...
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Quote:
I bet if people were in your shoes they would be singing a different tune.


Nope.


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Nope? Was that straight from the horses mouth?

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Greenspice - 2 ways to work quotation: either hit quotation and it will put the entire post between the UBBCode - then you can just delete what you don't want. OR highlight the part you want to quote - copy it (Ctrl - C) and then click on the Quote underneath where your post goes. Then paste (Ctrl -V) between the the UBB codes (they say quote and /quote with brackets around them)

Hope this made sense. If I try to type the code out, it just does it instead of demonstrating. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Ok, now for my stance on this subject!

I have gone back and forth on this. Being the victim of rape, I was at one time very much a proponent of the death penalty. Vengeance was a word I fully believed in. And whenever I heard about child molesters I thought the best punichment would be just to turn them over to the parents of the child.

but over time I came to see, as I believe Sylvia pointed out, that we can never be 100% certain that someone is guilty. The death penalty is pretty final - no going back and saying "oops, sorry, we had the wrong guy." It's bad enough when someone has been locked away for half their life - but at least they can do something with the other half.

Now I do believe that our justice system has taken this "cruel and unusual punishment" thing a bit too far. i mean, we have innocent children on the streets that don't get treated a 10th as well as our rapists and murderers do!

Tvs, weight rooms, libraries, I've heard rumors of prisons with carpeting. These men have beds, hot meals, clothing, and free health care - that we as taxpayers take care of. And plenty of homeless families that have broken no laws except to be unlucky have none of this. Where's that justice? (I realize some people on the streets bring it on themselves - but not all of them - and definitely not the children).

Punishment should be something that is a deterrent to crime, not something that many people in this country could wish they coould have!


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
The cost of housing a single inmate is $36,000 a year.

The US has more people in jail than any other country.

I have a statistic I put up in the Crime forum that something like 75% of people in jail have some form of mental illness. Could be higher or lower, I don't remember. But it is a significant factor.

I am for the cruel and unusual punishment clause, and I don't think putting folks in cement floored chicken coops is the answer. Altho tvs, weights, yep; why are they allowed and there is a book limit? lol!

All in all, there needs to be major prison reform in the US. What are we doing wrong that other countries are doing right?

For one, we criminalize minor crimes. Yep, legalization of some things needs to happen and then put it in the doctor's hands to monitor and eventually cure the rampant drug abuse. For every $4 spent to jail a person, it only costs $1 to rehabilitate them off drugs.

Three strikes is for sports, not crime. Power back in the judge's hands to really judge whether life in prison is right.

Just some small steps that might help our prison system, which is over-burdened. I realize these might be unpopular views, but clearly what we have in place now is not working. Recidivism is high; the gang culture in jail runs rampant. What can we do to stop both? Keep killing people on death row? These people live lives of violence already. You're not ending the violence by adding to it.


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
T
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
T
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
Bella Harmony,

We could have a law that applies to the penalty with respect to outlining undenialble proof, eye witnesses, DNA evidence,
past etc attached to the penalty phase. The parameters would be set and met prior to penalty phase with the need for 2 eyewitnesses taking priority, or steep factual evidence before preceding. Of course all of this would delineated and should be well defined with no leniency in the definition of the parameters. Thats the best we can do before we hand it over to the switch puller, i.e. the family. There are ways. This isn't funny but here goes a riddle: A woman attends a funeral of her mother and at the funeral she meets a nice young man and speaks with him for a while. They hit it off. He leaves then she remembers that forgot to get his telephone #. After the funeral she immediately goes out and kills her sister why?


Here is the answer, She figured she could see him again at the sisters funeral. Now here is the scary part, this question was posed to inmates at one prison with every serial killer getting is right.


I am curious, artistic and looking for inspiration and things that give me goosebumps in this beautiful world. I try to find humor in life or something not readily visible.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
A
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
A
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
Since many murders as done by criminal to criminal (gangs) or between people who know each other (this comes a recent NY city report) deterrence is hard to measure. Also coming into this is the common decades long time between conviction and punishment in these cases.

One thing I know is that the recidivism rate for those executed is zero, we can not say the same for those imprisoned and then released.

I am addicted to spell checkers and apologize for any errors

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Quote:
Also coming into this is the common decades long time between conviction and punishment in these cases.



Excellent point!

One of the first things we learn as parents of toddlers is that punishment needs to be dealt immediately after the child has done something wrong, or else they never connect the two incidents together.

Now of course adults on the surface know that they are being punished for the crime they committed, but could the sub-concious be down-playing the severity of it because of the lagtime? And also, what kind of message does it send to the public as a deterrant when the criminal just sits in stasis with no real punishment being done for their crime - Nothing!


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
I think that rather than executing criminals they should be made to do really horrible jobs in specially built prison factories or recycling plants. 'Life imprisonment' usually means being let out after 3 years for good behaviour, which is hardly a deterrant (using the gym, watching tv and getting fed and watered for free...sounds good to me). If life imprisonment meant being bent over a conveyorbelt sorting out gargbage 9 hours a day, every day, for the rest of your life...then that would certainly deter the buggers.


Mind Flight Sonic Warriors free mp3's and hilarious movies involving swans by Robert P. Abelson "The field of statistics is misunderstood by ... Reviewer/1976:,
Peter Flom "statistical consultant" (New York, NY USA) - See ...
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Koala
Offline
Koala
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Life without opportunity for parole, if incarcerated in a facility where the individual actually LOST rights to all things society deems wonderful (TV, books, contact with outsiders, exercise facilities, etc.), then it MIGHT deter some from committing certain crimes. But we, as taxpayers, would still have to foot a hefty bill--especially as so many crimes these days could likely qualify for "life".

There are no "good" answers. Both long-term warehouseing of criminals and putting people to death are horrid options.

I suppose we could cryo-freeze them... then wake them up if/when we find a way to actually "rehabilitate" people.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Wasn't there a suggestion that the prisoners' own assets should be used, wherever possible, to fund their incarceration?
I know this too is fraught with problems, and is a potential minefield, given that they might have innocent dependents.... but something of that ilk....It's a hopeless question, isn't it....?

Last edited by Alexandra; 04/28/06 11:09 AM.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Koala
Offline
Koala
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Many states in the US do seize personal assets or require inmates to pay for extras... but if the inmate has no assets or funds, the state still has to pick up the tab.

Crime is a lose-lose situation for everyone.

I don't know what other countries do these days... I've been out of this area of research for several years.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Quote:
the recidivism rate for those executed is zero


And yet, the error factor in determining if they were guilty is not.

If even one dies that was later exonerated, the system is flawed.


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
"But we, as taxpayers, would still have to foot a hefty bill--especially as so many crimes these days could likely qualify for "life"."

Not if they were made to work and provide a service for the country. They would be paying for their stay.

"Both long-term warehouseing of criminals and putting people to death are horrid options."

Warehousing isn't a nice option, but that's the whole point. It's such an unpleasant thought that it would make a great deterrant.


Mind Flight Sonic Warriors free mp3's and hilarious movies involving swans by Robert P. Abelson "The field of statistics is misunderstood by ... Reviewer/1976:,
Peter Flom "statistical consultant" (New York, NY USA) - See ...
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
i hadn't noticed before that this was in the ProLife board.

I presume everyone in favor of the death penalty is pro-choice as well?


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Its never safe to presume everyone that is in favour of the death Penalty is also Pro - Choice but I think a majority of women on this forum are Pro - Choice.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Koala
Offline
Koala
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Quote:
Warehousing isn't a nice option, but that's the whole point. It's such an unpleasant thought that it would make a great deterrant.


Thus far, long-term sentences have failed to prove an active detterant for crime.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
What do these monsters have to contribute to society because they have no right to live in society once they have crossed that line......Or do they????

Do any of you think a mass murderer who gunned down 36 people including a mother holding her baby desrves a second chance?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
If you had him in front of you and you had to pull the trigger, could you look him in the eyes and do it?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 622
"Thus far, long-term sentences have failed to prove an active detterant for crime. "

That's why I'd make it as unpleasant as possible for them. A lifetime of sorting through garbage just to pay for your 'accommodation' would put off anyone. At the moment it's just a big, free hotel.

"Do any of you think a mass murderer who gunned down 36 people including a mother holding her baby desrves a second chance?"

No, I think he should go and have a horrible remaining life in prison. I don't think execution would help anyone, apart from the criminal. After all, some of these guys are suicidal anyway, so it's hardly a deterrant.


Mind Flight Sonic Warriors free mp3's and hilarious movies involving swans by Robert P. Abelson "The field of statistics is misunderstood by ... Reviewer/1976:,
Peter Flom "statistical consultant" (New York, NY USA) - See ...
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
I believe in the death penalty. The reason it does not work is because it takes so long. These guys are animals. They deserve to die. Anybody who commits murder should be put to death. And it should happen quickly. In the first year at least. Our judicial system does not consider the victims. Many of the guys who commit murder have killed before. Why should they be kept alive. How many appeals did the person they killed get. If they knew what was going to happen, I know they pleaded for their lives. Did it matter? No it didn't the animals still murdered. For the death penalty to really work it must be done faster. Especially in cases where there is no doupt who the killers are.

Michael Taylor and Roderick Nunley on Missouri death row, plead guilty to killing a 16 year old girl. Anne Harrison is her name. I know people forget who the victims are. These guys plead guilty to this crime. There is no doupt that they are guilty. They recieved the death Penalty and have been on death row since 1989. This is an outrage. They plead guilty. And since 1989, Anne Harrison is still dead. She gets zero appeals. No chance fro a court to give her a stay. She was executed by two animals who don't deserve to be among people. Yes, I feel the way the death penalty is administered here in the USA, it is a joke. And the animals know it. That is why they don't fear it. Sheep get preyed upon. We need to stop being sheep, and make these predators who take lives pay. For murder payment must be the ultimate. You take a life. You forfeit yours. If a murderer knows that his life is in danger, he won't be so fast to gamble with it. Sorry I went so long.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
Yes I could. After all, he looked in his victims eyes and killed them. Or used a knife to watch the life slowly drain from them. They are animals.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
I believe what Family chioce says....It has to be made as unpleasant as possible for them till the day they die and go and go to hell.

Killing them would be nice but I do think it is the easy way out for them.

We have a murderer here who gets constantley bashed and when he heals they just do it again - now that is justice...Apparentley he is so paranoid now he wont even eat his food because he thinks someone is poisioning him...Love it!!!!!

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Being glad for the misery of others seriously damages the privilege we have of being a human being...

The only difference here, may well be gender, but -

Do you have a body, as he has?
A head?
Two eyes?
A face, mouth, nose, ears, hair...?
A heart?
Two arms, and two legs, as he has....?

Then you are interchangeable... There, 'but for the grace of God' (some say) go you... under other circumstances, he may have been 'you' and you might have been 'him'... So as you live, breathe, see, hear, eat, speak, walk and exist as he does, there is no difference between you except for the choices made. Some may say he is reaping his karma now.

so be it.

But to be glad at his suffering....? To believe it to be commendable? To extract some enjoyment from his torture?
That's not nice.
In what I practise, re-birth in this cyclical existence does not discount that those we encounter today, might have been close friends, relatives or loved ones in a previous time.... So whoever we come across, is one with us, and we are one with them....

Freespirit, that's not like you.... I thought (as you mentioned in another thread) that you wanted to pursue your own specific, personal, private and individually-chosen path....

Is this it?

Last edited by Alexandra; 04/30/06 04:59 AM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 109
I'd be afraid if someone harmed my son that I would actually be able to 'pull the trigger', and I'm grateful for laws protecting me and others for that sort of impulse within myself. Because I can rationalise it when not feeling emotive, I know what I'd want for myself in those circumstances, and it's a sense of self-control, compassion, and hopefully forgiveness. I imagine I'd feel the total opposite. I do think that in terms of incarceration, 'life should mean life', regardless of the implications for taxpayers' money, because I believe that as a society we're mutually responsible for each other and killers etc. are just as much a product of our society as anyone else. Just my thoughts though...

best wishes - Jane <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Today is good <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Alexandra this interchangable buisness makes no sense to me and you know what? I dont want it to because I think its a load of [censored]...

The fact is I am not "interchangable" I am not him and he is not me vice versa.

I dont care if it is not nice to be rejoicing in his torture because that is his Karma and he deserves every bit of what he is getting and more.

Freespirit, that's not like you.... I thought (as you mentioned in another thread) that you wanted to pursue your own specific, personal, private and individually-chosen path...Is this it?


The last paragraph is yours Alexandra just what has my opinion about the death penalty have to do with my spiritual path? "is this it"?

Is what it?

YOu read to much into things mate...I know you mean well and you have a kind heart but I am just expressing the way I feel and I know I dont sound "nice" but we are talking about real life here and this is a very serious issue.


What would you do with this individual who systematically blew 36 People away one nice sunny sunday arftenoon including a mum with here two children.One was killed in her arms allong with her - the other one he chased and killed her after she tried to hide behind a tree.I can tell you more horible details about that day but it probably would not mean anything to you as in the way you would treat him would it?

Okay Alexandra - You are the judge - you are about to hand down the punishment that this "man" shall recieve for his crime.

What do you do with him?

Does it Please society?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Quote:
Alexandra this interchangable buisness makes no sense to me and you know what? I dont want it to because I think its a load of [censored]...


That's fine... I don't have a problem with that...providing you are able to tell me exactly why you know it to be [censored] (not why you think it is....There's a difference.....)


Quote:
I dont care if it is not nice to be rejoicing in his torture because that is his Karma and he deserves every bit of what he is getting and more.


He may deserve his karma - as we all do... but to rejoice in his suffering is consequential for you too...and therefore you are creating negative karma for yourself... Which I am sorry for.

Quote:
Just what has my opinion about the death penalty have to do with my spiritual path? "is this it"?

Is what it?


"I feel that it is no longer appropriate to discuss religion in any way in a public forum such as this because my relationship with my higher power is "not open to discussion" to anyone as I feel my relatronship with my higher power is sacred...It is very personal now...."

This is what you wrote in another thread... We cannot separate our spiritual path from our day-to-day existence... our Spiritual discipline should be at the very heart of everything we think, say and do....It should fuel every fibre of our being, non-stop.

Quote:
You read to much into things mate...I know you mean well and you have a kind heart but I am just expressing the way I feel and I know I dont sound "nice" but we are talking about real life here and this is a very serious issue.


I am talking about real life too; What other life, here and now, is there...?


Quote:
What would you do with this individual who systematically blew 36 People away one nice sunny sunday arftenoon including a mum with here two children.One was killed in her arms allong with her - the other one he chased and killed her after she tried to hide behind a tree.I can tell you more horible details about that day but it probably would not mean anything to you as in the way you would treat him would it?

Okay Alexandra - You are the judge - you are about to hand down the punishment that this "man" shall recieve for his crime.

What do you do with him?

Does it Please society?


Freespirit, I will tell you how it is with me...
I have to view this as I do all matters I face - on two levels...the first is with the practical, day-to-day, general socially-fed ideology of the Laws, Rules and Regulations which run society (which, incidentally, are all in their own turn, rooted in the Commandments handed down by God to Moses....)
Crimes must be punished, laws upheld and the innocent and law-abiding protected.
But I overview everything with my own particular Spiritual ethics as the fulcrum upon which I act....the basis and foundation of everything i think say and do, are the Compassion and Love I have to develop for my fllow man.
I am not here to please anyone; I am here to do what is right.
And actively, deliberately and purposefully wishing harm on another being, is wrong.
I do not deny that a punishment must be based on what Society has worked on and developped to guide, instruct and govern...But Retribution, through Killing and depriving of life, is not universally accepted, even in the USA. And as such, I cannot condone it.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
The questions isn't whether they are "animals" or "deserve to die," it's an ethical one.

You would want to become a murderer simply because you feel they deserve it?

Aren't you stooping to the murderer's level to be just like them? Would you feel clean after doing it? Would it make you feel good? I think they felt good after killing, too.

Quote:
Its never safe to presume everyone that is in favour of the death Penalty is also Pro - Choice but I think a majority of women on this forum are Pro - Choice.


I'm just trying to point a hypocrisy.


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Quote:
And it should happen quickly. In the first year at least


I want you to go to this web site and read about the 110 men who were freed from jail after wrongly being convicted and tell me that you wish they were murdered "right away".

Death Penalty Info Page


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Alexandra please do not bring up other issues I have disscussed in other threads as it does not belong here...
Sure I brought up the words "spiritual path" but that was only when you asked about my "path"

You are so full on!!lol.. Its Bloody hilarious.I dont have to explain to you why I think this interchangable buisness is [censored]..I dont wish to delve into it and if you have a problem with that then tough titties...

I DO NOT in any way shape or form wish to discuss this any further.

Lets just agree to disagree on this issue..It is an issue that evokes great emotion in alot of people and understandably so and when people have an opinion on this subject they are usually quite passionate about it - I have read you opinion and I respect your right to say it but please respect my right to say its a load of [censored].

Everyone knows how I feel and I guess most disagree but that is okay - this is a public forum and we are allowed to disagree and I do not have to explain my awnsers to you or anybody else as to why okay?

I know you feel the way you do because of your "personal beliefs" and good for you but please respect what I have to say(you dont have to agree)and not ask for explanations - I dont have to give one.

Thankyou and Peace be with you...

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
I would be hard pressed to be "compassionate" should it come down to a case of murderers/rapists/etc. with children involved.

I know it should not make a difference- a life is a life, but what harm could a child ever have done an adult?

Like I said, I quite waver on this issue.

Freespirit, it seems like this issue is very personal for you, I am sorry that we have upset you so much over this. You are correct. You are entitled to your opinion, and do not have to defend it. I think we all have gotten used to devating around here! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Please, I don't think anyone meant to cause you hurt.

This is another one of those "matters of the heart" that are not always completely logically explainable to someone else. one just knows deep in their gut how they themselves feel.

There have been men in jail that I felt truly deserved the death penalty, and still do. Manson is plain evil - everything he touched became evil - there is no reason for him to remain in this world. It was a horrible twist of fate <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> that let him slip through that timetable of no death penalty.

Like I said before though, my big fear is of putting someone to death that doesn't deserve it. If one day (I know someone pointed out many ways to prevent this) we can 100% be sure - then I will probably support it.

Except for rape - those men deserve castration - and if there is a way to remove the actual [censored] - then that, too!


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
HI Michelle

Yes this issue is exteemley personal for me....I am not upset and I do sincerley appoligise for comming across that way.

Sometimes I find it hard to express myself in the written word but I am learning.I am a very passionate person - you should hear me talk about politics...lol!!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I keep a close eye on a group we have here called people against leniant sentencing...What some of these people have gone through will break your heart.It just seems more and more these days that the victims rights are taken away and the "Evil Animals" who commit these evil acts get sentences that hurt the victims even more.I can go on and on about this but I wont for fear of sounding like a raving lunatic...lol..:)

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
Gecko
Offline
Gecko
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 614
My husband is for the d.p., and I am against it. We get into quasi-heated discussions, but at the end of the day, we love each other and would never require each other to bend their ethics to our own. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I do like to bring facts to the fore so folks can make up their own mind. Even I, when presented with facts, have changed my mind on subjects. And I am cautious to offer an opinion when I don't have all the facts.

That said, I am going to bow out of this discussion. I've said my piece and that's all one can do.


Darling Poor
Editor of Horses Site
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382


Thankyou kindly for sharing..... <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Zebra
Offline
Zebra
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,313
Quote:

That said, I am going to bow out of this discussion. I've said my piece and that's all one can do.


Ditto.
believe it or not, I don't like to ruffle feathers.
Thank you all for sharing.

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
I haven't read all the replies, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned.

Here's how I look at it. Think about spending life in prison. Excellent chance at getting raped. No freedom. No walks in the park on beautiful days. Institutionalized food. Screaming maniacs and more immature behavior by some inmates than you ever could have imagined. No chance at true intimacy with a spouse. You're treated like a child, having to ask permission to do the basic things that many of us take for granted. Someone is always guarding you, because you're an animal in a cage. If you're half-way sane, you have to live thinking about the violent crime you've committed, for the rest of your life. You'll never travel on holiday. You'll never spend another holiday in the living room with your family. If you have children, you'll never be a real part of their lives.

Or think about your life being very quickly ended with an injection or a jolt of electricity. Sure, probably some pain, but in a few moments, you're in a perfect world where there is no pain.

Which would you choose? I'd choose death, no doubt! Thus, it's much more of a punishment to rot in prison for the rest of one's life than it is to very quickly and humanely end your life (which almost assuredly did not happen to the people you victimized).

So, setting morals aside for a moment, I think it's a greater punishment to put someone in prison for the rest of his life instead of ending his suffering on earth!

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 361
I think the death sentance would be a deterent if they actualy used it in a timely fashion in stead of whating 20 years to do it!!! the perisions are over crowed so they let pirsoners go that should stay in. i think that repeat offender of child sexual asults, child abuse and murder of anykind exepect selfdefence should get the death penaltiy if they are repeat offener and have been found guilt put in jail and released and found guilt of the same thing or worse more then 2x. why should i have to pay there room and board!!! why should we let the parrol borads put them back on the streets to kill, rape and harm our loved ones or some one elses? my mom works in the prison units here and most of them are child and sex offender that talk about when they get out what they will do and it is not like in the movies where the talk about how they will change and never do it again and how the are going to better them selfes!!! the only time you even start to hear that kind of thing is when they are close to getting up infront of a parol board!!! you can not change a serial killer/ rapist/ or child abuser... sorry but i think if we send them to God HE can deside what to do with them and it would keep others from going down that road too!!!

that is my view and i respect all of yours!!!


Judge not lest ye be judged: all things are permittable but not all things are beneficial
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,462
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,462
No one has the right or obligation to take the life of another, period.

Meg


Meg
The World is Our Classroom!
Homeschooling

Exotic Pets
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 263
Shark
Offline
Shark
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 263
I'm a proponent of the death penalty in theory, but not in application. In theory, I think a sentence of death is justifiable for murderers, rapists, child molesters. The problem is, as Go Barbaro pointed out, that there have been far too many people who have spent 10, 15, 20 years on death row only to be found innocent. Once you execute a person, there's no going back. Also, the death penalty is applied unfairly. If Gary Ridgeway (aka The Green River Killer), one of the most prolific serial killers in US history, can avoid the death penalty, how can you justify sentencing anyone else to death? So much of it depends on the quality of your legal representation, the state in which you commit the crime, the mood of the jurors, and whether you have something to deal or not.


Mother always said that even when things seem bad there's someone else who's having a worse day. Like being stung by a bee or getting a splinter or being chained to the wall in someone's sex dungeon.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
When a person commits a henious crime that deserves the death penalty it does not matter really if they get the death penalty or not as they are spiritualy dead.They will be going to hell anyway...

I guess its better to let them rot in prison.I used to belive in the death penalty but I no longer do because it is better to let them suffer in prison for the rest of their life.I am really glad we dont have the death penalty - it really is the easy way out.

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
Quote:
No one has the right or obligation to take the life of another, period.


Unless you're a woman and don't want to be inconvenienced for a few months to save a child's life.....! Pure lunacy.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Yes Alley we know how you feel about this as disscussed on the pro choice forum. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This disscussion is about prisoners recieving the death penaly.

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,304
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,304
Referring to the Death Penalty. If there is no doubt of the guilt, then I am def. for it. Rather for one person to perish than more deaths. Why should we have to pay for this criminals health, food, clothing, etc. If there is even a doubt as to the guilt, then life in prison. Very thin line..But, if someone tortures someone very inhumanely and that person survives, I'd still vote DP.... What gives them rights, when they did what they did! My two cents...


Ebook: Getting Started in Genealogy

Tina Sansone
Ebook Manager
GENEALOGY Editor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 22
if there is absolutly no doubt then i am for it. as if they
murdered someone then they should be put to death them selves. and not 10 plus years on death row, it should be done as soon as the trial is over

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
I support the death penalty. I wish only that it would be carried out with great more speed. These criminals that murder do not deserve to live. The life that they took to get the death sentence is more than likely not the only life they have taken. Yes they have feeling as well, but so does the victims. Yes killing that murderer for taking another life does not bring back the victim. But it with out a doubt assures he will never kill again. Too many times these guys or girls get out on parole and are repeat offenders. It has got to stop. Once a killer always a killer. Why support a worthless life in prison.

Al

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 131
Prisons now a days have access to the internet, Cable TV, movies, and even contact on a sexual manner with your spouse. Which I might add that while in prison they commit more crimes on persons. The elderly get scammed. Other inmates that aren't as hard get abused. They steal from each other. What about the guards that end up being victimized by these animals. You guys feel sorry for these criminals. But the truth is that these guys don't look at jail or prison as being all bad. They become institutionalized. If they ever get out again, they are even more hard to commit crimes. And life in prison does not mean life in prison. There is always chances of escape. Parole and Ect... Most crimes are done by repeat offenders. I worked in my counties jail and over 60% of the inmates came back. Only this time with more serious charges. That isn't counting the guys and gals doing state time which is for major felonies. The criminal justice system is a joke.

Al

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,304
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,304
I met this teenager who was causing problems with my son. When I threaten to turn him in as he was on probation, he said, "go ahead". I get to watch TV, better meals than home, and that is where my friends all are." I WANT to go back is what he said... So, he did not care what he did to go back to Juvenile. That is what type of kids our children are being exposed to... They grow up with that mentality knowing they probably won't be punished or "death Penalty", but just jail time is almost "HOME" to them. I did call the police for this incident, and nothing happened to him. Sent home with slap on the wrist... Oh well.


Ebook: Getting Started in Genealogy

Tina Sansone
Ebook Manager
GENEALOGY Editor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 7
T
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
T
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 7
I oppose the death penalty for one very important reason: we can NEVER be sure about guilt or innocence in criminal cases. This has been proved again and again wherein prisoners are proved innocent after they spend 20 years in jail. Our justice system is simply full of too many holes to ensure guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, particularly if you're going to put someone to death.

Haven't any of you ever read Les Mis�rables???


Tracey Anderson
Bulb Gardening
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004
Wolf
Offline
Wolf
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004
Neither death penalty nor long-term sentences are deterrents for crime.

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
C
Chipmunk
Offline
Chipmunk
C
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Sad but true... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
Brand New Posts
Inspiration Quote
by Angie - 08/15/22 12:47 PM
Astro Women - Birthdays
by Mona - Astronomy - 08/15/22 02:30 AM
Psalm for the day
by Angie - 08/14/22 12:17 PM
TP Global FX - The Game Changer
by Jamal molla - 08/12/22 12:17 PM
It's 2022 - on this day in the past . . .
by Mona - Astronomy - 08/12/22 04:26 AM
The Perseids are coming
by Mona - Astronomy - 08/11/22 12:34 PM
Simple T-Shirt Makeovers
by Cheryl - Sewing Editor - 08/10/22 01:46 PM
Burlap Fabric
by Cheryl - Sewing Editor - 08/10/22 01:39 PM
The Sun's Family - for kids and everybody
by Mona - Astronomy - 08/09/22 11:16 AM
TP Global FX - The Game Changer
by Jamal molla - 08/09/22 10:54 AM
Sponsor
Safety
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
Privacy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you and updates on any topics you choose to watch. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!


| About BellaOnline | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Editor |
Website copyright © 2022 Minerva WebWorks LLC. All rights reserved.


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5