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Joined: Apr 2006
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Again, just my opinion but the "hyper-philosophy" I spoke of earlier, implies man-woman has reached a "spiritual plane" and a super-intelligence but is also a "self" religion, where man-woman appoints their selves as God.
With this condition of self, everything is also super-scrutinized, except what self wants to accept as truth. The use of intelligent sounding words, doesn't make something truth and neither does deep sounding philosophical meanderings.
Christianity is different, in that it is not about self but also about giving to others, as was demonstrated by the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, who did this to save others.
I know this, my final post on this subject, will again be corrected with deep philosophy and super intelligence and this does not offend me, I sincerely hope it somehow helps you to do so.

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HorsecrazyGal, thank you for your comments...Really nice engaging with you on this one....:)

The Buddha taught that there are Four Impondrables....
areas of cogitation which can only ever lead to pure speculation, simply because there are no means available to be able to answer the questions without any room for question or ambiguity....

"The definitive abilities of a fully enlightened Being to perceive the Truth of the imponderables, as opposed to the abilities of one still subect to illusion, and samsara: This is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...(That is to say the profound efect of complete immersion in meditation, and that person's abilities to control involuntary functions, whilst in the depth of meditation)

"The [precise working out of the] results of karma...

"Conjecture about [the origin, existence of a Creator,etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

These then, are, according to the Buddha, subjects best left to one side, because to the unenlightened Mind, in a state of illusion, the answers cannot be satisfactorily provided.;
And that's fine....


Jim....
I'm not at all sure exactly what it is you are trying to say...
For my part, I would never personally, following the path I do, set myself up as a Deity to myself, nor to anyone else for that matter...
In fact, the Buddha grew angry when his followers and disciples attempted to elevate his status to something above human...he was adamant and insistent that this was never ever to be considered, or transmitted....he strongly resisted all effigies depicting him, but realising that they might help his followers with their devotional visualisations, he relented, but insisted that any effigy did not actually resemble him, as a likeness...
This being said, Buddhists refer to Universal Buddha-Nature being in every sentient being - that is to say, that anyone is capable of reaching Enlightenment, just as Buddha did...... and Christians attempt, through their Thoughts, Words and Deeds, to be the very embodiment and personification of Christ.... Christians are taught to accept Christ into their hearts...So surely it follows that assuming they are righteous and devoted, Christ is within them and speaking through them? They are in fact, 'God-like'?

Or have I misunderstood you?
And why give up on the discussion? This is so interesting....!

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Since you asked the question as to what I meant, let me answer it but I'm not discontinuing involvement in this same discussion because I'm "giving up on it", I just feel it ends in the same responses and is repetitious. Some religions actually practice repetition but to me they are "vain repetitions". And again, that's my opinion and I mean no offense.
My reference to seeking for self only, as being god-like, is because self-sufficiency taken to far, with no reliance upon God as the giver of life, is the equivalent to that. A person in such religious philosophy, doesn't have to say "I'm a god" or "I am God", for this to apply to them. It is evident in their implied knowledge of all things, or at least in their pursuit of that god-plane.
Christ dwelling in a Christian's heart by faith has no similarity to what I just described. It is because of a person knowing they are lost without God, that they accept his Lordship in their lives. A person who recieves Christ, has more reliance on him from that point on and they actually "die to self". This doesn't mean God takes our individuality away, he knows us each by name and even has the hairs of our head numbered. His Lordship means he directs our paths, inspiring us, leading us and filling us with his Holy Spirit.
This may anger some but you'll have to take it up with THE AUTHOR but the Bible says, that there is not one being that has ever been in existence (any name you want to name, including religious figures), that will not some day confess that Jesus is Lord (Phil 2:9-11,Rom 14:11).

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Hmm, I'm wondering where in my words you derived the implication I believe I am god-like or know all things. I opined on some subjects, and that is all.

I'd be the first to state that some things cannot be known, or even discussed in words. In fact, I did so state.

Curious, but in speaking with Catholics/Christians over the years, I have found that they, more than any other follower, likes to super-scrutinze what they believe is truth, i.e., the Bible. Rarely will you find one who does not have a well-worn Bible they can recite in depth.

Therefore, this person you describe, this super-scrutinizer who believes they hold absolute truth, does not sound like my questioning self, but like you. In a bizarre irony known as deconstruction, you have in fact, described yourself in the words above.

I'd also like to note that you do not know to which religion I adhere, because I have never yet stated it in here. Don't assume that because I am knowledgeable in some world religions that I adhere strictly to any of them, or that I discount Christ. I don't. I have deep love for Christ, Buddha, Native American Goddesses and more. It's simply that I feel all religions speak of the same thing.

Christianity can not claim to be original. It borrows heavily on Zoroastrianism, a far older religion. Zoroaster created Satan. Satan was stolen from the Zoroastrians, given the Pagan goat feet and horns and inserted into the ancient Jewish text known at the Old Testament. That's not super-intelligence, it's historical fact.

All cultures have flood stories. All cultures have Moses stories. And these are cultures which predate the Old Testament. The borrowing is heavy. But why do we even need to split hairs who said what first? I'm only trying to say I believe they all, in essence, say the same things. That's not super-intelligence, it's common sense.

Let me quote something I heard Joseph Campbell say. These are not MY words but food for thought. "Once you say that your God is the God, then everyone else's God is no God at all."

And that leads to religion toppling, world wars, and cultural genocide.


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I didn't have your posts in mind at all when I posted mine.

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As Alexandra so eloquently stated, "to the unenlightened Mind, in a state of illusion, the answers cannot be satisfactorily provided."

From Psalms: Wisdom calls aloud in the streets and the public square. It is our duty as sentient beings to seek out the parables of the wise men/women of the ages, to study them, to learn from them, and to seek our own paths to the divine.

Truth is not aboslute and the paths to enlightment (if you choose to use that word) are varied.

Proverbs 1
Prologue: Purpose and Theme
1 The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:
2 for attaining wisdom and discipline;
for understanding words of insight;

3 for acquiring a disciplined and prudent life,
doing what is right and just and fair;

4 for giving prudence to the simple,
knowledge and discretion to the young-

5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance-

6 for understanding proverbs and parables,
the sayings and riddles of the wise.

7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools [a] despise wisdom and discipline.

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Zebra
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Quote:

Let me quote something I heard Joseph Campbell say. These are not MY words but food for thought. "Once you say that your God is the God, then everyone else's God is no God at all."

And that leads to religion toppling, world wars, and cultural genocide.


Wonderful post in its entirety, CHgal...

Gandhi - one of the most respected, renouned and saintly men of our times, said that

"God has NO religion"...

He also said:

"The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different."

I do not feel it appropriate, however, to continue responding to your posts Jim, because I sense that the discussion shows signs of descending down to the level of a mere tit-for-tat argument on the veracity of the scriptures unde the microscope, and I for one am not prepared to table counter discussion.
I promised the Moderator of this forum that I would not stoop to undignified or contradictory argumentative exchange, and much as I am both tempted and capable of countering the points you have put forward, I have decided to leave it at that.

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I'm not a historian - but it was only for a little while that Satan was represented as the cloven hoofed "Pan" type creature. And I don't think it was by all denominations that he was represneted this way - I think it was only by some trying to "downplay" his power and make him seem harmless and silly. (Which to me seems a serious mistake - in a military view one should never over- nor underustimate the enemy.)

The Bible refers to him, as Lucifer, as the most beautiful of all angels, and then on earth can take any form (snake for instance - which was a most beautiful creature itself until after the temptation of Eve - hmmm, could this be where the Dragons came from? Conjecture only).

Quote:
Curious, but in speaking with Catholics/Christians over the years, I have found that they, more than any other follower, likes to super-scrutinze what they believe is truth, i.e., the Bible. Rarely will you find one who does not have a well-worn Bible they can recite in depth.


I know I was taught to do this, not so I could go around quoting the Bible at other people, but so that I could have God's Word in my heart, should I ever be in a situation where I needed advice. The Bible has just about everything you could think of in it - murder, stealing, lying to your best friend, getting jealous of your sister, etc. King David alone is an excellent example of what one should and should not do on a daily basis! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> So that's why it is good to memroize scripture, to have a handy "guide" and it helps bring one closer to God. Because even though I have invited Him to be my Lord and guide me, I still have free will, and I exert it daily. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> (I feel a song posting coming on - be on the lookout!)

Quote:
Let me quote something I heard Joseph Campbell say. These are not MY words but food for thought. "Once you say that your God is the God, then everyone else's God is no God at all."


But that is the truth. I believe (as I'm sure Jim and Jenna do as well) that there is only one God - Jehovah. In 1 Kings 18: 20 - 40 it tells the story of the prophet Elijah and the priests of the false god Baal. I won't wuote the whole thing - it'll take up the whole page, here's a link Elijah and the priests of baal But this IS our stance as Christians. It doesn't make us popular, but our commission is not to win a popularity contest, but to spread the Word of God and to show people His incredible love. And as a side effect, to keep people from spending an eternity in Hell. (That's the less pleasant side of it.) <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
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Oh, Jim - read the article, but I'll post on it in the correct spot! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(After I get back from the hospital)


Michelle Taylor
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Zebra
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Quote:
I think it was only by some trying to "downplay" his power and make him seem harmless and silly. (Which to me seems a serious mistake - in a military view one should never over- nor underustimate the enemy.)



Michelle, help me out here, because this is something which always truly puzzled me....

God is the Omnipotent Creator who guides through his word, and encourages His followers to the non-practise of Sin...Right?

Lucifer, on the other hand, is His opposite.. he is the Great Temptation personified, the embodiment of all that God rejects, the one who encourages mankind to stray and do evil....

But if Mankind was given Free Will, the power of choice and discernment, then... isn't it an easy way of copping out of the responsibility of ones' actions to say, both "I was Guided by God" or "I was tempted by the Devil"... ?
Doesn't this offer an explanation for a decision which was based entirely on Human Voluntary thought process?

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