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Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240698
04/30/06 09:00 PM
04/30/06 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
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Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
Yes Horse Crazy....So true some children are not the best to interact with are they? and yes just like you say - just like some adults.... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240699
05/01/06 01:48 AM
05/01/06 01:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Texas, US
Lynn_B Offline OP
Koala
Lynn_B  Offline OP
Koala

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Texas, US
I take my children to the theatre, to symphonies, to museums, to fine restaurants, etc. Children need this exposure in order to learn to value these experiences and to learn what is appropriate behavior (yes, you can learn manners at home--but the lessons stick better with practice). I, as do most of my parenting friends, choose early times, matinees and performances that are specifically scheduled for families--out of concern for our own children.

As has been mentioned by other parents elsewhere, if you are not enjoying your experience you have several options--you can choose to ignore the behavior, you can comment to management, you can comment to the parents, or you can take your business elsewhere. The same applies to the parent with the well behaved child who is on the receiving end of nasty "breeder" and "moo" comments made by anti-child couples nearby.

Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240700
05/01/06 02:25 AM
05/01/06 02:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
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Chipmunk
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I would ceartinally never use the term "breeder" to a decent responsible parent and anybody that does that is sick in my opinion.But I will call an irresponsible person who should never have had kids a breeder because that is what they are...

If I were at a resturant for example and I saw a child running rampant and genearally spoiling my dining experience I usually have a gental word to the parents and if this does not work I go straight to management.

This has happened to me in the past unfourtunatley and I spoke to the parent (breeder) and she was very rude to me telling me to mind my own buisness and said her kid was just being a child - said child walked up to our table and blew our candle out then proceded to run around the resturant like it was a playground.

the parent actually encouraged her child to "play" just to [censored] me off so I went to management and had a word and explained the situation to which he asked the "lady" to control her child or leave...She made a real big fuss and the whole place by now was staring at the feral.Her husband was like a frightened little rabbit! he went along with everything she said....Anyway she got up with her brat and her poor husband and walked out and was told never to come back again.

If children are qwell behaved by all means its okay to bring them to a classy resturant but if not let them go to burger king where they belong.

Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240701
05/02/06 02:20 AM
05/02/06 02:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Texas, US
Lynn_B Offline OP
Koala
Lynn_B  Offline OP
Koala

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,172
Texas, US
As this is a support board for moms, I take exception to the use of the term "feral breeder" or "breeder" in your posts, freespirit.

You are, however, quite right in your method of handling the situation and its good that you handled the situation calmly.

Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240702
05/02/06 05:50 AM
05/02/06 05:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,382
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Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
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I appoligise for offending anybody here but I will not appoligise for what I said.

I have previousley stated I have the upmost resect for parents who raise their children right and you all deserve praise.

I use the terms "breeder" and "feral breeder" to people out there who do not raise their children right.Baisically they should not have had them and we all know there are plenty of people out there like this...

It breaks my heart to see children suffering from neglect e.c.t and these people that had them for god knows what reason are taking out their frustrations on the poor innocent children....

I am getting off topic here - the point is I will not go back on what I said and this is NOT directed to you parents out there who love their children and raise them right.Parents have my full respect and admiration.You guys do the hardest job in the world when it is done right.

Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240703
05/02/06 01:17 PM
05/02/06 01:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 335
Canada
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MomsPaula Offline
Shark
MomsPaula  Offline
Shark
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 335
Canada
Hi, we can't decide or predetermine the intelligence level or present coping ability of parents. Perfectly capable parents lose out to stress, and often. We have also "banished" segregation. I think the best we can hope for is enlightenment along the way. For those around us and most importantly ourselves. We do not have separate worlds. We share one.

Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240704
05/02/06 02:31 PM
05/02/06 02:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Lake Lanier, Georgia
Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chelle - Marriage Editor  Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chimpanzee

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,189
Lake Lanier, Georgia
Many people would look at my situation (without knowing all the facts) and judge either me or my child.

One of us must be to blame for the fact that Michael struck out at me. It would probably be me: I was too lenient raising him, i didn't discipline him enough, I spoiled him. OR some would say I went the other extreme; I must have been abusive to him, I was too strict, I didn't care about him and let him raise himself.

Very few people would see the truth of the matter: that i am a Mom dealing with a special needs child. That I have done the very best I can. I do not let Michael run wild, as a matter of fact my life would be much easier if I didn't discipline Michael - but how is he ever to learn acceptable behavior if I don't? (And by discipline I mean grounding, no computer, TV, video games - spanking an Asperger's child is a definite no-no).

Yet even the nurses at the ER could not understand why I was not pressing charges against him - and i told them he was Asperger's (autistic for the ones that looked completely blank - I thought these people worked in the medical field) <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So looking in from the outside, a person can never know what has happened at a given time. Children are fragile, as are their emotions, and small things set them off. I would ask a little more patience of the CF community in public settings.

(Although I do agree that bringing 2 yr olds to a horror movie that is R rated is wrong!)


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Hear #240705
05/02/06 03:01 PM
05/02/06 03:01 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 58
East Coast, USA
Hatsumomo Offline
Amoeba
Hatsumomo  Offline
Amoeba

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 58
East Coast, USA
Okay, most people can tolerate well-behaved children. I'm one of those people. I can appreciate a child who isn't screaming and throwing stuff around. And I really love the children whose parents must have done a bang up job and have excellent manners. I recall a few children that have held open doors for people, said their "pleases" and "thank yous," and I specifically remember this one little girl who was no older than seven who noticed that I had dropped several stacks of cups (this was at my job at the movie theater) and ran over and picked them up for me. I made damn sure that I complimented both her and her mother. And believe me, that little girl made my [censored] day at my job that much better.

BUT:

It is not appropriate to allow your child to misbehave in public, period. Even worse when you do nothing to discourage bad behavior. Not everybody thinks it's cute when little Ashley starts banging the silverware on the table at a restaurant that isn't Chuck-E-Cheese or little Jimmy throws a temper tantrum in the middle of Wal-Mart because Mommy won't buy him the new GI Joe.

I'm especially not too sympathetic when I had to spend the 14 hour flight to Japan listening to two toddlers take turns squalling the entire flight. Now, I'm not an unreasonable person. I understand that the cabin pressure changes are uncomfortable and that a kid won't be too happy during take-off and landing. But having to hear a child screech and wail for 14 hours, effectively screwing me and others out of sleep? And this brings me to another point: I remember flying when I was a kid and my ears hurting horribly from the air pressure changes. That's probably downright torture for a toddler and infant. Why subject them to that?

What's even better is when the kid is doing something that can be dangerous and the parent does nothing. Then when the kid gets hurt or worse, the parent wants to scream lawsuit. There was a recent case in Pennsylvania (I think) where a woman was charged and convicted for not going into dangerous waters when she couldn't swim and save somebody else's child. She was charged because she was previously in proximity of the child and somehow, that meant she was the kid's guardian, despite the fact that she didn't know the kid and despite the fact that she previously pointed out to the kid's father that the kid was going too close into the water and brought the kid back to his father. The father apparently deemed it unimportant to watch his two-year old son, and the kid went into the water and drowned. Now the woman was sentenced to 18-months in prison for somebody else's failure to parent. How that even constitute as justice? It takes a village indeed.

It not only annoys other patrons, but it also doesn't put the parent in a good light either. It just smacks of "I'm too lazy and/or spineless to discipline my children." And if you're the parent of a special needs child who has a tendency to freak out in public, while I understand that's rough, it's not usually obvious that a kid is disabled in any way. It's not for the rest of us to bear the responsibility.

Other people pay for their meal, airplane seat, movie, etc. It's not fair to ask everybody else to ignore the child or otherwise adjust so you don't have to discipline the child. Oh, and just because it says "family restaurant" doesn't mean that it's okay for a child to be loud and obnoxious. There's only one place off the top of my head where a kid pretty much has a mandate to be loud and run around and that's Chuck-E-Cheese (or similar places, depended upon where you are in the world).

And please don't say that we have no idea how hard it is to raise children. Yes, we do. Different experiences have showed us how hard it is to raise children, which is why we've decided to not have them. Not to mention that it's not a valid excuse. My parents raised two children and my mother did it on her own from when I was 13 on. My sister and I have always been well-behaved in public, so it's not an impossibility.

Society has come to the point where there is now a market for several TV shows on different channels on how to deal with misbehaving children. I watch Supernanny and Nanny 911 and what I find so funny is that the nannies on the show aren't teaching anything novel. It's just plain old common sense. Your kid does something good, you reward them. They do something wrong, you punish them. That's the very first thing they teach you in the most basic psychology class. Classical and operational conditioning.

It's not even just the CF who feels this way. Please keep that in mind. My sister plans on having children and she gets more annoyed at misbehaving children and their parents than I do. Ditto for my mother, and she raised me and my sister. Of course, she (and my father when he was still alive) taught my sister and I how to behave in public. Any misbehaving would result in disciplinary action and this was a time when it was still okay to spank your child. (I'm only 20, BTW, so there isn't that large of a gap; this was the late 1980s - early 1990s).

Also keep in mind that yes, there is a fraction of the population that don't like children at all, but this does not make them evil in any sort of way.

The most important point: Those with children made the decision to have children. It is the childed that should and have to make life adjustments. It is not fair to ask others who had no part in the decision to adjust their life for you. Give the child some home-training or invest in a babysitter.

I apologize if this comes across as curt, but I try not to sugarcoat things. And the "you" is in the general terms, not to anybody here specifically.

Last edited by Hatsumomo; 05/02/06 03:14 PM.
Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Heard??? #240706
05/02/06 03:07 PM
05/02/06 03:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,436
GA
Judith, Football editor Offline
Chipmunk
Judith, Football editor  Offline
Chipmunk

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,436
GA
Michelle- I wish you the best with Michael. You know him better than anyone. You did what was the best for him and that is more important than what the nurses thought. I could just imagine how bringing the police into it would have help the situation for him. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I recently talked to a friend who made comments like "I guess you think I am a bad parent" or something like that because she was making her child do what he was suppose to. I told her not to worry about what I thought. I hate that we as parents carry the guilt of feeling like we can't do enough for our kids and then the shame that others try to assign us because they don't think we are doing enough for our kids.

Re: Ranting: Children Should be Seen and Not Hear #240707
05/02/06 03:24 PM
05/02/06 03:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,436
GA
Judith, Football editor Offline
Chipmunk
Judith, Football editor  Offline
Chipmunk

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,436
GA
Quote:
It not only annoys other patrons, but it also doesn't put the parent in a good light either. It just smacks of "I'm too lazy and/or spineless to discipline my children."


If they are letting their children run through the place causing problems, they are the ones that don't care if they are in a good light. But my favorite nice place to eat without my kids usually has kids there. Never have seen any kids act up there. But it is my favorite place because they ban cell phones. You have to leave to use one or go to the bar. I personally get tired of self important people talking over everyone on a cell phone more than hearing kids being upset because the food is taking so long.

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