BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Philosophy Fate vs. Free Will

I often struggle with the concept of freewill. The choices we make are so influenced by culture, body chemistry and genetics.

Seemily rational persons are swayed by charismatic leaders to do horrid behaviors. Deprogramers can change true believers into accepting the reality of the majority. Hypnotists can help shy people to act otherwise in front of strangers. A blow to the head or electric convulsive therapy can cause major personality changes.

Free will and the "I" of self is just another illusion. I used to make a living by teaching others how to change behaviors, thoughts and emotions, to help them change world views to less stressful ones and also to help intergrate multiple "selves" into one.

One philosophy that intrigues "me" is that highest form of existance is to be free of the illusion of self.

Quite so...Or Not-self... as it is called in the Diamond Sutra... Difficult one to understand..harder to explain...very simple though, in it's logic...
Clarity and cut.... hence the name, 'Diamond' Sutra... it cuts through all illusion with perfect precision and clarity.

Damned if I've managed to get my head round it all - !!

Thanks for the post.

Nice to see you here. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But aing, we have taken away the deer's habitat, as well as the Florida Panther and Bobcats, the coyotes cannot be relocated from our airport, so they are trapped and killed. Just a few of the animals that would help to keep the deer population in control if their habitat was left alone. The park ranger will tell us what they want the public to be told, unless you have a very good and old buddy who is a park ranger (like I do). Then, they will discuss it honestly.

Unless there's a private discussion going on somewhere, Firefly - I have nooooo idea what you are talking about - !! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Firefly was responding to a previous post of mine made on page 2. We got off topic for a bit.

Ok, i'm just jumping in at the end, not actually commenting directly to Aing (although, welcome to the forums!) - you just happened to be last in line.

Most of you here know I believe in free will, but there are things beyond our control which I guess would qulify down the path we call "fate". Things like natural disasters, accidents (well actually, those a lot of times are caused by the decisions made of other's free will) Alexandra, I believe it was you that pointed out how we are all interconnected, and it is definitely true; even if we can't see it! The butterfly effect was a term long in use before it became the title of a screwed up movie! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I guess I kind of picture if like a big road map; here's my road - every time I have a choice to make I come to a fork, the one I choose to go down continues on, the other dead ends. But then there's all these other roads that have intersections with mine because of other people's decisions (the intersections would be people I come in contact with). Or maybe some that have bridges that go over my road. (These are the ones I don't immediately come into contact with.) Some of these roads become a tangled mess because I and/or someone else made the wrong choice, but hopefully we will work it out and the roads will straighten back out, and maybe give us a lovely winding view of the mountains. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok, I know that was a rather weird and convoluted example, but it does seem the way our lives cross when we make decisions. Roads get torn up by tornadoes, too. Someone just has to come behind and fix them. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue2.gif" alt="" />

In fact, Michelle, if you were to stand back and visualise, your mind just wouldn't be able to take it all in... because not only would your path be intersected by the path of every single person you come into contact with, their paths would also be intersected by every single person THEY connect with...and so on and so on, ad infinitem.
Such is the interconnectedness of all these paths, that in fact, they all meld and merge into one another, and there is no distinction, border or boundary...

So we're all one one great big unified all-encompassing path...together....

The Right or Wrong choice does not exist. There is no such thing.
"Right" and "Wrong" are mere evaluations we make at the time, and what may seem right - absolutely entirely Right - at the time, due to the current circumstances, may only appear "Wrong" much later. But we can't make that evaluation because the Future is a non-existent concept.
We may find a similar situation arising at a later point, but with the necessary available information, either make the same decision again, or change our minds and do the opposite.... but the results, and the results only, will demonstrate whether we were skilful in our decision.

The concept of Right or Wrong merely depends upon our Perception. And Perception is often DEception.
I walked down Oxford Street in London once, on a bitterly cold January day... it was sleeting and dysmal. I saw a man in shirtsleeves, completely oblivious to the inclement weather.
It turned out when I stopped to speak to him, that his interpreter (as wrapped and bundled up as I) explained that he was an Inuit Eskimo, in London for a conference....

What is freezing to some, is a walk in the park to others.
So we can only evaluate something from our own Point of View. But it is only ours, and we have to accept that others may see it differently. But It is not Wrong. And it is not Right.

Grab my hand Michelle, let's go for a cuppa!!

Sorry Alexandra, it was off topic on the previous page, but since Aing is only two hours away from me down the coast, I felt the need to reply. (the neighborly thing to do). Most of the time I think I know what I am talking about. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh, hey...! that's no problem at all..I just thought I was losing the plot....!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for clarifying..!

I think fate is what God has planed and makes us go through and free will is what we do with our fate and karma is the natural consequences of our choices good or bad. for example we are born to ms. and mr somebody in somewhere Earth and some point in time (fate) with that envoroment and expereinces we have our moral ethical make up. we use free will to detremane how we veiw others and the world at large. if we choice to be victoms of our child hood and other experincese them the world will make us victoms to more. karma if we buck aganaist our childhood teachings then we rick condenation and rejection from our family and hometown people. weither it is good or bad our choices effect others and there choices effect us but how much is depented on how much we choice to let it most of the time. the other part is out of our control for example drunk driver hits you...war... and God controls the weather so fate has a big say
ok i type too much...sorry