BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Philosophy Fate vs. Free Will

Does the concept of fate leave any room for free will? If there is free will can fate still exist? If any one has any thoughts, arguments, opinions, poetry and/or quotes please feel free to post a reply.

As a Christian, I believe that fate applies to the will of God in regards to the world in a general sense. In other words, fate is prophecy by God that determines the outcome of the world. While free will determines my personal outcome. Helpful?

Perhaps not absolutely everything is 'fate' (if we accept that it exists), and that free will gives us several choices as to how we get to the same place, but maybe with different life experiences etc. ? Maybe 'fate' also includes learning those life experiences/lessons, but gives us a choice about the situations in which we do so? That's probably a bit of a tenuous argument, but I thought I'd give it a go <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

best wishes - Jane

God has foretold the world from beginning to end. That sounds like fate. You and I have personal choice ( free will) to choose God or satan. If we serve God we will end up with God. If we serve satan we will end up with satan. A servant resides with his master. Choose wisely.

I'm not sure that everything fits nicely into a 'moral absolute', (again, if we agree that such things exist) - I think that sometimes there may be shades of grey, and that these are some of the times that I meant. That is, we may end up at the same destinations, but through different routes/choices, and that these choices may be equivalent in 'moral value'. Obviously if they aren't, then it's socially pragmatic to take the route which would harm the fewest, I feel. Just my opinions though <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

best wishes - Jane <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There are moral absolutes. Is raping a woman always wrong? I believe so. Don't you? That is a moral absolute. How about slavery? Is that always wrong? Sure.

Weird, then, how slavery was done in the name of Christ for so long. I mean, there's even advocation of slavery in the Bible.

Does that mean that there are parts of the Bible that are wrong? Or (no!) could it be (no way!) that Christians got something wrong once? I mean, if they could get something as big as slavery wrong for so long, who knows what they could be getting wrong now!!!

Have you ever read The Jesus Mysteries by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy ? It is a dry read but all of it is backed up with hard facts about christianity or the lack of it and of course the bibliography is included. It's packed full of some pretty interesting facts.

Being Buddhist, what others label as 'Fate' I would label as 'karma' but many see this as something personal, or judgemental. This would be incorrect....karma is merely a consequential result of previous action. It just "Is". It is not a retribution, or a pay-back... it is merely the unfolding result of previous experiences....Free Will on the other hand, is inbuilt. it is Choice. It gives us the skill to discriminate and to evaluate, and to decide, faced with this choice, whether to proceed Positively, Negatively or Neutrally.....Hopefully, we would use our judgement and discrimination to decide skillfully... therefore we accumulate the positive Karmic consequences, thereby eliminating or reducing our eventual suffering...
The Process of Free Will and Choice begins in our Mind...In our Thought processes and mental machinations...
A Buddhist Rule of Thumb, dealing with karma and free will, is this:

"If you would know what you once were, Look at what your Life is doing today. If you would know what you will be, Look at what your Mind is doing today."

Hope this adds.... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think you're probably right, Texasdave - that moral absolutes do exist, in terms of society. On the other hand, I do think that there are many choices which don't fit neatly into morally 'good' or 'bad' labels. I think what Alexandra has said about the difference between karma and choice is very helpful. I find that a lot of the choices that are available are a direct consequence of how I've previously chosen, so that it makes sense, if life is to be bearable, to chose wisely and to harm none whenever possible.

best wishes - Jane <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />