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Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212223
09/26/05 06:33 AM
09/26/05 06:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 42
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Stacey_84 Offline
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Stacey_84  Offline
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Dr. Keith,

For someone who is a therapist, it bothers me that you use such offensive language to explain your position.

You mention that Michelle is getting angry at everyone for her 'mistakes.' Implying that her chid is a mistake is extremely offensive. Also, implying that you are somehow more intelligent than she is for not getting your girlfriend pregnant is also offensive. The most intelligent people make 'mistakes'; you don't know her cirumstances.

As a therapist, you should realize that not all people are the same and deal with things the same way.

One more thing. When you attack people, they will fight back. It is human nature. You made hurtful comments and she is, and rightfully so, offended.

Living Without Children - Automated Note
For New Visitors: This forum exists as a support community for people who are living a child-free existence. This area is here to help nurture, inspire and educate those who, for whatever reason, are living their lives without children in the home.

Posts made here must be supportive of this lifestyle choice. Comments should not question a person's decision to or reasons for being child free. Those negative comments are called "bingoing" or "trolling" and are not allowed. Please be sure you are aware of this forum's intentions and rules before posting!

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212224
09/26/05 06:34 AM
09/26/05 06:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Dr_Keith Offline OP
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Dr_Keith  Offline OP
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Quote:
Hi Music Mom,

You have accomplished a great deal. Raising a child, especially a child with special needs, by yourself is an enormous accomplishment. It is at least as much of an accomplishment as aquiring two or three degrees.

Eventhough I don't make hurtful remarks about kids and parents, I am going to apologize on behalf of those who do. I wish there were more parents out there like you who are openminded enough to respect a choice that is different from your own.


Although Stacy feels compelled to apologize to you Michelle, she does not speak for me. I on the other hand refuse to enable you.

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212225
09/26/05 06:42 AM
09/26/05 06:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Dr_Keith Offline OP
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Dr_Keith  Offline OP
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Quote:
Dr. Keith,

For someone who is a therapist, it bothers me that you use such offensive language to explain your position.

You mention that Michelle is getting angry at everyone for her 'mistakes.' Implying that her chid is a mistake is extremely offensive. Also, implying that you are somehow more intelligent than she is for not getting your girlfriend pregnant is also offensive. The most intelligent people make 'mistakes'; you don't know her cirumstances.

As a therapist, you should realize that not all people are the same and deal with things the same way.

One more thing. When you attack people, they will fight back. It is human nature. You made hurtful comments and she is, and rightfully so, offended.


So Stacy let me ask you. Do you always try to play the hero and run to other people's sides and take up their cause just to protect your self? Not that I need to explain myself to you child, but I used no offensive language. Second, If you go back and read Stacy dear, it was SHE who called her situation a mistake by saying that a mistake never ruined my life, thereby implying she thought her life was.

You may call this offensive and that's fine. But I am not in this world to please the likes of you. Why are you on this board Stacy, why are you here? For that matter why is Michelle? I thought this was a no parent board.

And Yes Stacy dear I do realize that people deal with things different. For instance, you are an enabler and Michelle is the enabled.

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212226
09/26/05 06:45 AM
09/26/05 06:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 42
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Stacey_84 Offline
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Stacey_84  Offline
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'Dr.' Keith,

I feel obligated to apologize to her (and many other parents) for the hatred that is spewed forth by many childfree people. Being childfree is a valid personal choice. So just say that! Having kids doesn't interest you. Why feel the need to lambaste parents for making a different choice than you? How is that any better than parents who criticize the childfree?

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212227
09/26/05 06:47 AM
09/26/05 06:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 42
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Stacey_84 Offline
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Stacey_84  Offline
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Keith,

I am here because I don't have any kids and don't plan to. I was looking for a place to meet likeminded individuals. I guess because I don't hate kids and parents, you assumed I was a parent.

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212228
09/26/05 07:20 AM
09/26/05 07:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Dr_Keith Offline OP
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Dr_Keith  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Quote:
'Dr.' Keith,

I feel obligated to apologize to her (and many other parents) for the hatred that is spewed forth by many childfree people.


Being childfree is a valid personal choice. So just say that! Having kids doesn't interest you. Why feel the need to lambaste parents for making a different choice than you? How is that any better than parents who criticize the childfree?


>>I'm sorry you feel "obligated" Stacy. That must be a tremendous burden on your shoulders. But since you are not talking about me since I:

1) Spend my day with parents, everyday helping them to help their kids be better people. I work by referral so I must be doing something right.

2) Never spewed forth hatred, just my opinion. Sorry if you call it hatred.

I find it also interesting that you are here still. There are so many parenting boards out there. I had to do a few searches just to find this one. I have news for you, we are in the minority. The "hate" spewed forth that you refer to could easily be interpreted by many here from people who DO have children. They seem inundated by a whole slew of people trying to cajole and manipulate them into feeling guilty to have kids.<<

I didn't know you were the Hall monitor for this website. If all I had to do was say "that," I am certain this board would have no posts and we would all be unable to express what we feel unless you concurred.

Also, Stacy I disagree with you on a lot of things like you do with me. You assume a lot. Like WHY we are not having kids. I don't know why you have made your choices but I also feel the overpopulation of the world is out of control. Also, I can see that the DEFAULT in this society is to have kids. The expectation is real, palpable and powerful, and many have kids because of that. There are so many who do not even question it. I WANT them to come and see this board. I want them to see there is an opposing viewpoint to what they hear out there everyday.

This board is NOT a good representation of how things are. This world is way one sided with the "having kid" thing. People who do not want kids are the ones lambasted, they are pressured with/without words. In a society that already has this idea in it's fabric...socially, fiscally and mentally.

This board Stacy IS the alternative. This board is for people who are sick of the nonsense and they are saying it. It is not for you to say what is offensive and what is not. I am sure there are board moderators for that. Allow people to voice their opinions, do not be afraid of how someone will take it. That is not your place.

I am sure many clients of mine would want me to tell you to not try and defend them. Let them make their own mistakes, let them see what they are doing. Sometimes the truth is cold and dirty and there is no kind way to state it, we can whine and be stigmatized, or we can grow profoundly from it. Michelle is looking to be enabled, I see it everyday, and she found you.

Do you really think it was a mistake she bumbled here? Puhleeeze! If I were here, I would have clicked my browser in a new direction. A Parenting website is never far away and Google gives them thousands of hits. I would never have wasted my time writing what she did, unless...unless...

Unless I wanted secret sympathy from the people I wanted to be. To be accepted when I knew I made a mistake (her words). I wanted someone...anyone to understand that I'm not stupid (notice that this implies she thinks she is). Also, you both cunningly changed my words and wrote out of anger. You made false accusations, this is a sure sign of something else going on. If she indeed went through all she said, I have compassion for her. I think it is a testament she put up with it, but she was acting hurt and disgruntled. I thank God for my traumas, they create wisdom. If I were here I would not want you to defend me, but of course she probably will feel power from it.

This board is not here for a cordial invite to be loving to parents. This is "Married with no kids." I am married, and I have no kids. I do not "lambaste" people, I made my statement and two women on this board assumed a lot of stuff about me and changed my words. They said that I could state my opinion, but only how THEY wanted it.

Since Stacy said so here is my new post to amend the one above:

Ahem....: "Being childfree is a valid personal choice."

There, I said it...happy now?

Can we make up now?

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212229
09/26/05 07:34 AM
09/26/05 07:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 42
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Stacey_84 Offline
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Stacey_84  Offline
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So I apparently made a lot of assumptions about why you didn't have kids? Can you quote one single sentence where I said that? I don't really care why you chose not to have kids.

And you repeatedly ask why I am here and keep stating it is a non-parent board. Let me spell it out for you: I am NOT a parent and don't plan to become one.

And I never said, for the record, that people can't voice their opinions. Being an advocate of freedom of speech, you're not likely to hear me say that you don't have a constitutional right to blither any kind of nonsense you want. Do you have a right to be hateful towards kids and parents? Sure. And other people have an equal right to point these words out and disagree with you.

I agree that the pressure to reproduce is annoying, I dislike it as much as the next childfree person. Supporting each other in our choice is one thing; calling kids fucktrophies is another.

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212230
09/26/05 07:46 AM
09/26/05 07:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 42
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Stacey_84 Offline
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Stacey_84  Offline
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Posts: 42
I am also fed up with the nonsense and the pressure to have kids but I somehow manage to express it without putting down kids and parents. I simply find it offensive when people refer to children as fucktrophies. I adore many children and hearing people refer to them as fucktrophies is very offensive (yeah that's right I actually like some kids Keith! Boy I guess you really wonder what I am doing here. How could someone be childfree and ALSO like kids and parents? Holy Geez).

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212231
09/26/05 08:26 AM
09/26/05 08:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6
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Dr_Keith Offline OP
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Dr_Keith  Offline OP
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Stacy, you are an annoyance to intelligence. When you make up your mind and get off the fence people may have respect for you. Right now you have much to try and prove it seems.

To you, you must seem truly diplomatic, a real ambassador of good will. You are a coward and you think the world must conform to your limited ideals.

By the way, where did you come up with that great line "fucktrophy?" To me it's anything BUT a trophy.

Tell you what, I'll let you get in the last post since that's what you want this to be about...Stacy's forum for the good-willed CF samaritans.

Attention: EVERYONE must conform to Stacys code of website ethics or else she will come and attack you. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT PARENTS EVER OR ELSE SHE WILL COME DOWN ON YOU BOY.

Stacy you did not make one bit of difference to anyone here, I reject you, I reject your supposed levelheadeness as being purely delusions of heroship. You want to appear compassionate and yet somehow sound like a mommy scolding someone. You are a little girl (if the '84 means your birth year) in years and in mentality. I see 21 year old girls in my office, I must say they are far more believeable than you are. My biggest mistake here was arguing with a 21 year old child about something her childish wisdom knows nothing about. you're a kid and you will change most of your belief systems as you grow up. That's the beauty and peril of the internet, you get to act older than you are and check your spelling. When in reality you're nothing but a little girl.

Go ahead Stacykins, take it away junior & get in the last word.

Re: Yesterday at the Dr.'s office #212232
09/26/05 08:44 AM
09/26/05 08:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 43
From SF, CA but moving to New ...
Opilies Offline
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Opilies  Offline
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From SF, CA but moving to New ...
I like your post and your views on parents versus childfree, especially:

"People who are more aware, know that they can give their love to the world (it sure needs it) instead of making a supposed package that it is easier to give it to. In other words, the world is more difficult to love, other people, other adults too. But somehow we know that is where it must go. Even though many on here (including me) are in some stage of being perturbed by what we see with others, and even though this is causing a temporary state of disgruntlement...it seems we are the most "aware" people on the whole. I am not trying to be elitist but I would debate that with anyone."

I've often asked myself how come other members of my family, ie sister and mother, do not see things the way I do. I can only shake my head and worry about numero uno. I know I have a lot more to give to this world. It seems I am only beginning to live at 41. But hey, who's counting.

This Musical Mom person can say all she wants, but honestly, I skipped over alot of her life history. She made her choices, now she deals with them, just like me.

I do wonder why Musical Mom bothers to read here, most of these posts probably upset her.

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