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Song-Writing #177531 01/18/05 05:03 PM
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David - Musician Editor Offline OP
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Any song writing tips or thoughts you'd like to share? Post 'em here and help us all avoid "The Moon in June" syndrome! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: Song-Writing #177532 01/18/05 05:16 PM
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David - Musician Editor Offline OP
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PS: I've added a few super effective song-writing brainstormers which you can check out at Creative Writing Boosters - Brainstorming Technique
It says "You�ll never be short of ideas again using this method that�s for sure ;-)". Try 'em and see what you think...

Re: Song-Writing #177533 07/13/05 04:26 PM
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musicalmom Offline
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Quote:
My fractured-vascular organ,
Lies writhing like a dying Gorgon,
I need a little break,
I'll go shopping in Glamorgen.


I'll say it is a different way of saying heart broken, but using the word fresher after "vascular organ" sounds too much like an operating theatre! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, I am writing my 1st (and quite probably my only) song. I have my words, my melody, my bass chord, can probably figure out a harmony to go with (BTW song is a vocal solo w/ mostly piano accompaniment & trumpet interlude that is part of the melody).

How in the world do I come up with an accompaniment? I am not one of those that plays in a band and looks at chord configurations ( G E A7 F# etc) and can play away. I learned classical piano and have been playing that way for 30 years. I need to write out an accom. Any tips?


Michelle Taylor
Why me? What did I do to deserve this?
(go on, ask)
Re: Song-Writing #177534 07/26/05 09:10 PM
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David - Musician Editor Offline OP
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Quote:
... but using the word fresher after "vascular organ" sounds too much like an operating theatre! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Hee-hee + LOL ... I'm sure they have operating theatres in Glamorgen too you know <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .. we could ask Lauren from New Age, she comes from them thar parts! <well Wales anyway :>

Michelle, you mentioned that you have the left hand bass (notes), but I'm not sure if you need help with choosing the right hand chords for the song too? Or is it just the actual rhythm part of the accom itself you need a hand with - please let's know.

Anyways, it seems like you have almost all of the song in parts already. Putting it all together should be "reasonably" easy to do. Betcha that's what they said to Humpty Dumpty <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

David

Re: Song-Writing #177535 07/26/05 11:24 PM
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musicalmom Offline
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What I have is the vocal melody (I shouldn't have much trouble finding a hramony to go with), and the bass chords for the left hand (bass cleft). This piece is pretty much a vocal solo, w/ piano accompaniment ('cause that's what I know how to play!) <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can't figure out how to come up with the right hand accompaniment - you know like in the song "Clocks". The rolling chords that are playing have NOTHING to do with what the guy is singing.

Help! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
Why me? What did I do to deserve this?
(go on, ask)
Re: Song-Writing #177536 07/27/05 01:33 PM
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David - Musician Editor Offline OP
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Rightio - don't worry about a harmony at this stage Michelle. We'll get the basic comp done first and then concentrate on the harmony. Btw if this tune gets to number #1 please include me in the credits, and forward the $1000's to my Paypal account <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Ok you have main melody and the left hand bass notes yes? You said bass chords? For this type of approach, you should have single bass NOTES not chords for the left hand - it is possible to play bass chords of course, and if this is what you have that's ok. But at this stage, what we can aim for IF you have bass chords, is to just play left hand bass NOTES for now (the single root note of the chord), and transfer the rest of the bass chord to the right hand.

Let's get a simplified version first which you can "upgrade" later on IF required. Because of our musical background "differences" and differences in style, I need to get this clear and know what you have and have not.

Do you mean the Coldplay song "Clocks"? Coldplay are one my fave bands <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Here's a coincidence for you - I was just humming that very song in the kitchen less than an hour ago! Also I had to do some work resetting up my studio a few days ago, and to test it I used that "Clocks" riff on the keyboard, piano sound of course! And what he is playing ie "the rolling chords" are actually A LOT to do with what he is singing <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

We'll get to that soon - you probably know this info as such, but it could be an "aha" moment - it's certainly a key to what we are doing here.

So let me know what exactly you have for that Bass - is it single notes or actual chords? I would hazard a guess and say it's chords? Whatever you have, it means that you have the basic structure of the song already.

We can probably use that Clocks song as an example along the way I hope ... It'll be a good "excuse" for me to listen to it - I'm playing it at the moment on my PC/CD player! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

David

Re: Song-Writing #177537 07/30/05 12:51 AM
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musicalmom Offline
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I don't know David, I don't think Christian songs garner quite the amount of money that other genres do! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
(I definitely don't mind sharing credit though!)
What I have in the left hand are Bass notes (root of the bass chord in octave). I've been figuring I need to do something with chords in the right (rolling?) i just don't know what. (Oh, yes I was referring to Coldplay.)
My song switches back and forth between the key of D and A minor (I think that's the coordinating minor key).

Anyway... what say you? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
Why me? What did I do to deserve this?
(go on, ask)
Re: Song-Writing #177538 07/31/05 09:59 PM
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David - Musician Editor Offline OP
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Ok that's grand, here's my take on it Michelle. We'll work on the verse here first, in a step by step style using a bit of "Clocks" as an example ... I think this would be handiest way.

Clocks

First off, if you listen to the intro to the Coldplay song "Clocks", you can hear the riff on the piano with the "rolling notes". Now if u examine (play) the actual chords behind what the piano player is playing on this riff, you will find that they are the exact same chords as in the actual verse. He's just playing them in an arpeggiated way (basically in single note style from a suitable scale or chord arpeggio). The chords in this song here are:

Eb Major / / / : Bb minor / / / : Bb Minor / / / : F Minor / / / :

... (This is not a common key normally used on guitar, but this song was probably composed on a piano - I don't know that for sure).

So there is a connection here - albeit the melody of the lead vocal in the verse is not the same as the riff in question (as you mentioned previously), but the basic chords behind both are the same. This is a common technique used in let's call it "Pop music" as opposed to Classicial.

But if you listen to the verse you will hear that while the vocals are going on over it, the chords are just played behind it "flat", ie you just hold the chord down - this works great on an organ or keyboard but on the piano it would not really work in this case. This is obviously because you would play the chord on the piano and then the sound would just die out naturally as such. There is no sustain so to speak. (I know there is a sustain pedal on the piano but that is not sufficient for our purpose here).

The reason the Clocks verse organ/keys part works, is because the rest of the band are providing the rhythm! The bass, drums and the guitar. So what you need to do here when your accompanying yourself on the piano, is to provide not only the bass and chords, but the rhythm too. Think of it in the beginning as 3 separate parts which are joined together. It get's easy enough after a while.

So first off we need to find the correct chords for the right hand - your song's chord progression.

Now if you already have the bass notes on the left hand, you can find out what the actual chords are for the right hand easily enough. The right hand chords must be either major chords or minor chords.The way to find this out, is to sing the vocal over the bass note first, then sing it over a chord built on the same bass note, and see which chord fits.

So say your first bass note is D, well the first chord for the right hand will be either a D Major or a D Minor - it must be one or the other! You get used to this after a while and it becomes second nature

The basic chord families in D are:

D : G : A : B minor : E minor : F# minor

So the other chords in the verse are probably some of these family members if the verse is in D and also diatonic (diatonic means staying within the same family).

Please post the full chords for the verse of your song and I'll clear that up 4 you Michelle - it can be confusing if you're not used to dealing with this type of thing.

Ok see what you make of that and we'll move on to the chorus chords next ...

Once you get the hang of this you'll find that it's quite simple compared to Classical music as a rule - but that's a long "argument" or discussion we don't need to get into right now! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ...

David

Re: Song-Writing #177539 07/31/05 10:20 PM
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David - Musician Editor Offline OP
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Quote:
I don't know David, I don't think Christian songs garner quite the amount of money that other genres do! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Ha! - talking of large amounts of money and songs, do u know Michelle that U2 are big Christians - Catholic I would imagine coming from Ireland - well 3 of them anyway... Maybe you could sell the song to Bono <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

... Glad it was the Coldplay "Clocks" ... On the subject, U2 were/are a HUGE influence on Coldplay!

Talk 2 ya' later

D <img src="/images/graemlins/irish.gif" alt="" />

Re: Song-Writing #177540 12/26/05 08:48 PM
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David - Musician Editor Offline OP
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This post to be continued at a later stage folks, as Michelle has just become the editor at not one, but two new Bellaonline sites! Wishing u all the best with them thar sites Michelle from us here at Bel-Musician ...

<img src="/images/graemlins/irish.gif" alt="" />

D

Re: Song-Writing #177541 12/27/05 02:29 PM
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Chelle - Marriage Editor Offline
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Ha! Thanks David! (I guess I amunder your thumb now - seeing as how one of my sites is classical music.) <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My New Year's resolution is to finish this song we've been discussing and get a demo recorded! A Christian speaker took a look at it (the lyrics) and told me when I got it finished she wanted a copy, because she knows a publicist she thinks would be interested in it. Yea! I think that's one reason that I've been so scared to finish it. i'm a terrible perfectionist. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Michelle Taylor
Marriage Editor
Re: Song-Writing [Re: Chelle - Marriage Editor] #471100 11/25/08 05:30 AM
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Julie Anne Offline
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I too have decided to get back into my music. I lost my husband to death 2005 and now its taken me this long to get back into it. My husband too was a band director and owned a music store in GA, I taught piano lessons there too. we both shared the same interest and majored in music.

When I moved back to California in 2006, I went back to accompnaying our church choir which I did for 24 years. I didnt have the motivation, because of my loss. I'm finally getting motivated to teach piano lessons again. Got my business cards and now i want to get more involved with music in our community. Sometimes I just dont know where to begin, its been a while and I'm a little out of the loop with keeping up with things here. My main thing is arranging and writing songs. I've written 3 song lyrics, but having a hard time getting melody in it. sooooooooooo, this is my motivation for the coming new year.

Julie

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